Interesting. Note they will have 38 acres on the strip.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2018/09/18/brightline-expand-california-vegas/1348336002/
With this move, are there still naysayers out there?
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/brightline-to-build-las-vegas-california-rail-link/
As someone who routinely drives from Vegas to South California and vice versa, this is big news. This should make it easier on the Raiders fans in Southern California to get to the games.
As disappointed as I am that they're expanding west before completely serving all of Florida, this is huge. It shows a real commitment to maintaining and growing Brightline as a brand.
I wonder if they'll make the planned expansions to Phoenix, SLC and Denver too.
It definitely makes it seem that a Miami/Orlando/Jacksonville/Atlanta route is in the plans.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 18, 2018, 07:39:33 PM
With this move, are there still naysayers out there?
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/brightline-to-build-las-vegas-california-rail-link/
Naysayers to what?
For example, I've maintained that there is evidence they couldn't secure the capital needed to build out HSR from WPB to Orlando. This, if anything is further evidence of that problem. In fact, it's an indication that they've put that line on hold indefinitely.
Going back five or six years ago, I'd define naysayers as those that believe the Brightline concept wasn't going to happen and was only being proposed for an ulterior motive.
QuoteIn fact, it's an indication that they've put that line on hold indefinitely.
I'm not sure about this. Simultaneous investments and implementation happen all the time.
Note that the original bond sales for the Orlando extension flopped. And they flopped in the most capital rich, easy-credit market ever known to man kind.
If they can't raise the $2 - 3.5 billion needed to reach Orlando, how is Brightline going to come up with $8 billion to build the HSR line from bum-fart-nowhere, Victorville, to the Las Vegas strip?
How does Brightline raise $10 billion in capital in the next 5 years ( and note that would put them way behind the timelines' theyve created for both projects ) ? The question isn't is there a chance it can be done. It's a matter of how it'll be done and how likely that is to happen.
XpressWest has been around for a decade, announcing and re-announcing plans to build a HSR from LA to Vegas. First it was going to be Cali that would help them pull it off. Then it was going to be Federal loans. Then it was the Chinese. And then it was the Raiders.
None of it ever panned out for them. Their view of their likely future outcome is that they found that whatever it was that Brightline offered them was a better deal than whatever future $ they may get from the project.
Brightline has yet to find anything certain and big enough in funding to build to Orlando. Xpress West couldn't do the same for their line. And now Brightline's not only going to find the money, $10 billion, to start building not one but now 2 HSR lines next year.
There aren't many universes where that ever happens, let alone is likely to happen. Sure, it could. But if I were a better person, I'd put money on Obama getting a 3rd term before Brightline finds the capital for both of those.
They were just approved to sell $1.75 billion in private equity bonds less than a month ago to extend to Orlando. Obviously they either have confidence to pull off their plan or they're outright crazy to take on a second project. Time will tell.
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on September 22, 2018, 12:18:17 AM
But if I were a better person, I'd put money on Obama getting a 3rd term before Brightline finds the capital for both of those.
I'll take that bet, message me your Paypal and/or Venmo info :)
Quote from: thelakelander on September 22, 2018, 08:03:59 AM
They were just approved to sell $1.75 billion in private equity bonds
That's a political move that speaks nothing to their ability Remember, they've tried to sell these bonds for years, since 2013. To date they've failed to do it.
Maybe they'll pull it off in the future. But their track record shows that they haven't been up to the task.
And now they're looking to take on yet another project, one whose history is the same, one with repeated failures to raise capital.
What matters is not their thoughts, not their intentions but their actions and skills. For their sake, I hope they turn things around. But it's not likely.
Time will tell. Right now, their actions show an operational line in South Florida and hundreds of millions in TOD rising above or around the three stations. It also appears that Tri-Rail will start operating on their tracks in 2019, opening the door to commuting possibilities and links that have only been dreamed about for decades. I wish them the best because they are Jax's best hope when it comes to seeing anything intercity passenger rail related penetrate our urban core borders.
You make it sound like $10,000,000,000 is a lot .
Not to Jeff Bezos, or a lot of other people on this planet. Warren Buffet, Bill gates, the list goes on, of individuals who could float this.
Not to mention the Walton family. That being said it will all play out over the next year or 2...
I doubt you'll see the building of a new railroad. What will happen is an operating agreement with UP/BNSF with the sundry necessary improvements for passenger trains. The Achilles heel is the stretch from Apple Valley/Victorville to LA... There are two choices:
1. Follow the host railroads down the busy (crowded) Cajon Pass to San Bernardino and hence west to LA
2. Construct a 10-20 mile cut-off. Abandoning Victorville and following BNSF west of Barstow. At some point between Barstow and Mojave's they would need a cut-off in the direction of Palmdale/Lancaster. Hence follow the UP southwest through Soledad Canyon, Santa Clarita and South through Burbank to LA.
I've ridden both of these routes and while they might fly once they clear the Ivanpah range near the state line, no speed records will be set in either of the two routes outlined above.
The chance folks will drive ½ way to catch a train is idiotic at best.
UP and BNSF have been very diplomatic in their wording. In short, they've expressed they'll never do such a thing. In fact, the builders haven't looked to do it, either.
FRA requirements on those passenger trains are stringent enough. They practically have to be built like tanks. Once you introduce one onto a freight corridor costs go through the roof as new safety requirements kick in.
BRIGHTLINE TRAINS are FULLY FRA Compliant to operate with Class One Railroads.
UP and BNSF already share trackage on some of this corridor and except for the Barstow Yards, both railroads are operating under capacity. In the business to move steel wheels over steel rails, if BRIGHTLINE shows up with a valid proposal and a check in hand, they'll get access.
Is it sad to dream about them also buying the Las Vegas Monorail and expanding it to the airport and actually making it useful? I get real tired of having to get a Lyft every time I go there.
Also, where is the 38 acres on the Las Vegas Strip they bought for a station? I haven't been able to find a mention of it's exact location.
Quote from: Sonic101 on November 07, 2018, 11:41:30 AM
Is it sad to dream about them also buying the Las Vegas Monorail and expanding it to the airport and actually making it useful? I get real tired of having to get a Lyft every time I go there.
Also, where is the 38 acres on the Las Vegas Strip they bought for a station? I haven't been able to find a mention of it's exact location.
If the artist conception on this link is correct, it is the large vacant lot west of and adjacent to I-15 between Hacienda and Russell Road. Across I-15 from Mandalay Bay.
http://www.xpresswest.com/milestones.html
Quote from: Kerry on November 08, 2018, 08:07:49 AM
If the artist conception on this link is correct, it is the large vacant lot west of and adjacent to I-15 between Hacienda and Russell Road. Across I-15 from Mandalay Bay.
http://www.xpresswest.com/milestones.html
Can't be. Thats where Raiders new Stadium is going... maybe it will be right up against I-15.
Quote from: Lostwave on November 08, 2018, 10:52:03 AM
Quote from: Kerry on November 08, 2018, 08:07:49 AM
If the artist conception on this link is correct, it is the large vacant lot west of and adjacent to I-15 between Hacienda and Russell Road. Across I-15 from Mandalay Bay.
http://www.xpresswest.com/milestones.html
Can't be. Thats where Raiders new Stadium is going... maybe it will be right up against I-15.
Yep - you are correct. Maybe that's where the original location was but has since become the Raiders stadium.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on November 05, 2018, 01:47:40 PMif BRIGHTLINE shows up with a valid proposal and a check in hand, they'll get access.
That is a preposterous claim to make. Put down the glue, it's killing brain cells. Neither railroad is under any obligation to do a damn thing for Brightline.
In fact, Brightline as a public, for profit entity is in a worse position than public transit agencies. Modern history is littered with the latter going hat in hand trying to operate alongside them and getting the Heisman.
Operating on the same tracks has been even more difficult for public agencies to pull off. When it does occur, it's after a long, costly process with contracts that are quite friendly to the RRs.
Brightline doesn't have the same PR pull and need for good will that public agencies have. Brightline can offer a lot of money to try to overcome that. But the more money they offer up, the more difficult it will be for them to compete with $100 airfars to Vegas.
Whatever the situation is, Brightline has a to get a hell of a lot done right now. And I mean right now. We're only a couple years out from the majority of the baby boomer generation being in retirement. As they retire, their capital investments are going to from the overly risky, desperately trying to eek out an extra 1/2 percent or 3 of returns to safer-than-safe, maybe some bonds and mostly just cash on hand.
That is, the forces driving this crazy capital market are going to flip poles from crazy risky to painfully risk free. If Brightline can't put together the tens of billions they'll need for their proposed lines soon, they're done. Even in the historically most bloated, risk-embracing capital markets they're struggling. No way a market that views a money market fund as risky, and that's where it's about to flip, is going to go in for spending billions on a train that's slower and more expensive than flying.