There's been a mass shooting at the Landing. 11 shot and 4 dead. Not a lot of details but apparently it happened at a Madden tournament.
https://www.news4jax.com/news/shooting-at-jacksonville-landing-leaves
Sad for the victims and their families, frustrating for many of us looking on, Brand damage for downtown and the city at large given the Landing's historical and singular association with the identity of downtown and its presence in the CBD...tough for recent downtown momentum that it's getting national press
Another person was shot and killed after the Raines football game. Wonder if there is any connection.
WHY IS MY COMMENT BLANK?!?!?!??
Something tells me we will discover there was little to no security covering the gaming participants. I work next door at the TU and you can't get anywhere in that building without security checking you out, even on non performance days.
Quote from: jaxrox on August 26, 2018, 03:43:00 PM
WHY IS MY COMMENT BLANK?!?!?!??
I'm going with operator error.
So many shootings as of late that I'm starting to feel desensitized. Not that I don't care, because I do; esp when innocent lives are lost.
I'm sick of the shootings and violence in Jacksonville. I'm also tired of hearing the candidates giving their scores according to the NRA. Is there anyone running for office with any stones? Do we have to have office holders approved by the NRA? This is crazy. I am a gun owner and have a concealed carry permit. I think we need more sensible gun laws! I once belonged to the NRA-I think I was 12. They fight every sensible law and always cite their version of the 2nd amendment. WHY is a candidate for agriculture commissioner shown in his campaign video walking down the road with a rifle? This country is nuts. Please vote for sensible candidates and piss on the NRA.
I'm tired of people blaming the NRA.
According to the Sheriff, suspect is thought to be David Katz, a 24-year-old from Baltimore who was participating in the Madden tournament at GLHF Game Bar.
3 dead including Katz, and at least 9 wounded, who are all in stable condition.
Maryland has very strict gun laws. Looks like gun laws don't work. At least my husband and I can easily defend ourselves in Florida with minimal government interference if we are attacked for being who we are.
The victims:
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article217367195.html
Would you consider that perhaps an aim of gun laws should be to keep guns out of the hands of the likes of David Katz, or out of the hands of the perpetrators of the Raines High shooting on Friday night?
Or does every person have the right to access, no matter how nefarious their intentions, and everyone else just needs to be on guard and on the ready, quick with the draw and with good aim? Actually, if someone is intent on targeting you, and you're out having a nice BBQ with family, it's likely the offender with the evil intent will get off the shot before you can muster your weapons in defense.
I'm becoming a big believer in bullet-proof daily wear.
Whatever 'side' your on, I'm pretty sure we are the only country in the world where kindergarten children need "active shooter" training.
That's something to ponder.
Quote from: MusicMan on August 26, 2018, 09:15:41 PM
Whatever 'side' your on, I'm pretty sure we are the only country in the world where kindergarten children need "active shooter" training.
That's something to ponder.
I get your point, but there are a lot of counties whose 5 year olds have a lot bigger problems than an active shooter drill.
Quote from: DTJAXEYE on August 26, 2018, 07:56:42 PM
Maryland has very strict gun laws. Looks like gun laws don't work. At least my husband and I can easily defend ourselves in Florida with minimal government interference if we are attacked for being who we are.
People say there are more jellyfish in the ocean now so I scooped a bucket of water out of it to see. No jellyfish in the bucket they must be wrong about there being more of them. I am upset about the day is why I chose to point out the ignorance of your anecdotal post. My reasonable self knows you are convinced you made a good point and no evidence will dissuade you but hope springs eternal.
Quote from: Kerry on August 26, 2018, 07:27:35 PM
I'm tired of people blaming the NRA.
Kerry, I don't put all the blame on the NRA, but they have to be blamed just for the constant propaganda they spew and the huge amounts of money they spend to overpower the will of most sane citizens in this country. They spend huge amounts of money in a rigged system they helped develop to elect morons who most people would dismiss as weirdos without the NRA's help. They blame the victims, they are against expanded background checks, they give very untrue info on the reasons why people should arm themselves, etc. No other advanced country in the world has the gun death rates we have. You are no safer with a gun in public places, in fact you and bystanders are more at risk with every additional gun. I believe there are instances where it's reasonable for a well qualified, vetted, gun owner to carry a weapon. BUT, this country is completely out of control. The II amendment clearly states: "A WELL REGULATED militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". When have you ever heard the NRA cite the complete amendment? Why are they against background checks? In Florida and most states I have to be licensed and insured to drive a car. Does the 2nd amendment not say a WELL REGULATED militia? We have all these NRA banner waving candidates running for office now telling us how they will fight terrorism and are endorsed by the NRA. Terrorism killed 3,046 people in the U.S. between 2001 and 2014. Between 2001 and 2013 in the U.S. 153,144 were killed in homicides using firearms. Somebody has the wrong priorities. I've changed my mind about guns, and I think a lot more people are too. I hope it won't take the shooting death of a friend or loved one for people to admit our current gun laws are killing us.
how many of the guns in Chicago were registered?
Quote from: DTJAXEYE on August 26, 2018, 07:56:42 PM
Maryland has very strict gun laws. Looks like gun laws don't work. At least my husband and I can easily defend ourselves in Florida with minimal government interference if we are attacked for being who we are.
You can't say gun laws don't work based on that, because you can walk from anywhere in Maryland to a different state in about 30 minutes. There is no reason or logic for AK-15 and the like to be legal. The only reason they are legal is because the NRA (gun manufacturers) has bought our government. Handguns are legal under the 2A and should remain so. Very few people actually disagree with that previous statement.
I am glad to hear that it sounds like the folks from the Jax community are gonna be ok.
Condolences to the families of the out-of-town victims who were shot to death. Senseless and tragic. And wishing a speedy recovery to those who were injured.
On the bright side, I've never seen such glowing descriptions of the Landing in the media coverage I've read. It's been called a Jacksonville Hot Spot, a nightlife district, and a major destination with dozens of popular bars and restaurants.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 27, 2018, 09:00:54 AM
I am glad to hear that it sounds like the folks from the Jax community are gonna be ok.
Condolences to the families of the out-of-town victims who were shot to death. Senseless and tragic. And wishing a speedy recovery to those who were injured.
On the bright side, I've never seen such glowing descriptions of the Landing in the media coverage I've read. It's been called a Jacksonville Hot Spot, a nightlife district, and a major destination with dozens of popular bars and restaurants.
I wonder if this tragedy might be the spur to get Curry and Sleiman to sit down and put aside grievances and craft a future strategy for the Landing. No, the shooting was not related to the tension and conflict and war of words between Curry and Sleiman, but given the Landing was the site of an act of hate and violence on Sunday, can anything be done to change the energy and aura surrounding the site?
^^ I was aware that it was a handgun used. I was merely saying that restrictions against such guns was not unconstitutional. Passing laws to make that so, would not eliminate gun violence but it would be a step in the right and logical direction. The 2A has NOT been infringed upon. At all. There is not now, nor has there ever been, a right in the constitution that had/has no limitation or restrictions.
It is the purpose of the government to determine what those limitations and restrictions are, and they are not immutable for all time.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 27, 2018, 09:00:54 AM
On the bright side, I've never seen such glowing descriptions of the Landing in the media coverage I've read. It's been called a Jacksonville Hot Spot, a nightlife district, and a major destination with dozens of popular bars and restaurants.
Yes, whether people like Sleiman and the Landing or not, it is probably the single largest thing that represents the image of downtown Jacksonville to the outside world. It's about as iconic in Jax as it gets. So when visitors do see it in person, guess that they think about DT Jax in general (assuming their visit doesn't align with a special event or festival)?!
jax_hwy_engineer, if can I assume your screen name is somewhat biographical, do you favor getting the "government intrusion" and "nanny state" out of the engineering and construction professions? Anyone with a straight-edge can hang out a shingle as a "Structures Engineer" and go about designing bridges? Anyone with a shovel as a highway or bridge contractor? There are legitimate reasons for the people, as the government, to enact regulations to protect the safety of the public. The question is to rationally discuss 'how much' regulation is appropriate, to balance freedom with responsibility and safety.
The mentally ill should not have access to a gun. It would be nice to have a list of mental health patients that are deemed a public safety hazard as well as a list of people who are prescibed medications that would make them more likely to commit such mass shootings that could be included in a background check - but HIPPA laws would stop that cold in its tracks.
We can't even get the mentally ill off the streets - let alone keep them from getting gun.
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on August 27, 2018, 09:06:16 AM
I wonder if this tragedy might be the spur to get Curry and Sleiman to sit down and put aside grievances and craft a future strategy for the Landing.
The more likely, more depressing alternative is that the shooting gets politicized by both sides. Sleiman's lawsuit against the city alleges that they fail to provide proper security, among other things, at the Landing. And Curry wants to tear down the Landing because he thinks its blighted. Hope I'm wrong, but I could see both sides using the shooting as justification that they are "right" about the Landing's problems.
^ Sadly, you're probably right. Plenty of people on social media last night were using this as an argument to tear the Landing down and/or call downtown unsafe.
j_h_e, thanks for your reasoned response. The NRA consistently opposes basic registration requirements (who owns which guns). I am certain they would oppose requirements for showing competency in the safety and use of guns. Since they bankroll enough legislators, at the state and federal levels, to prevent such laws from happening. So, your point about legislators not doing what the voters want is correct.
Quote from: jax_hwy_engineer on August 27, 2018, 11:13:21 AM
I would definitely argue that it has been infringed upon, but I'm not a constitutional lawyer so I can't say with any level of certainty.
We have the right to keep and bear arms
-except in gun free zones
-except in bars
-except in airports
-except in sporting events
-except fully-automatic weapons
-except in certain states/cities/towns
-except in voting places
-except in government offices
-etc...
Apparently we've taken a lot of "steps in the right direction" so far, and yet we still experience shootings...
I make my point again that additional laws don't necessarily make for a safer society, as has been shown in certain cases throughout history. To ask a question and then drop the topic, what law would have prevented THIS killer from obtaining a weapon? What could have predicted he would act in such a way? To me, it seems there was no way of knowing categorically beforehand, making legislation against such an attacker impossible or ineffective.
The "right to bear arms" has been completely distorted since it's inclusion in the Bill of Rights in the 1700s. Only if you are a member of a militia and had your flintlock confiscated has your "right" to bear arms been infringed. The second amendment was thought to have been written to allow states to organize militias due to the lack of standing military. One of the reasons was to put down slave rebellions, events such as the Whisky Rebellion, etc. This was a different time and different circumstances.
That being said, the Founding Fathers seemed to think that guns and militia service were good for character building. They certainly didn't want to ban them. On the contrary, gun ownership and militia membership were required. The Militia Act of 1792 stated:
"That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack."
Nowhere in the 2nd amendment are AR 15s, AK 47s, large clips, printed & untraceable pistols, armor piercing rounds, or any modern sensible laws for today mentioned.
Quote from: jax_hwy_engineer on August 27, 2018, 12:01:21 PM
Quote from: Charles Hunter on August 27, 2018, 11:41:58 AM
jax_hwy_engineer, if can I assume your screen name is somewhat biographical, do you favor getting the "government intrusion" and "nanny state" out of the engineering and construction professions? Anyone with a straight-edge can hang out a shingle as a "Structures Engineer" and go about designing bridges? Anyone with a shovel as a highway or bridge contractor? There are legitimate reasons for the people, as the government, to enact regulations to protect the safety of the public. The question is to rationally discuss 'how much' regulation is appropriate, to balance freedom with responsibility and safety.
I completely understand your argument, and don't necessarily think it refutes mine. As you may note I mentioned that additional regulation doesn't NECESSARILY mean a positive impact on the safety of the general populous. Building codes are one thing, and have had measurable and direct impacts on the safety of private and public works projects. Some gun regulations may have had some measurable impact on the safety of people at large, and some have fallen flat.
I agree that a rational discussion is necessary (even though we don't make the decisions in government anyhow, legislators will do as they will regardless of the general opinion) which is why I asked what specific criteria would have disallowed this man to own a gun? What law could have prevented this, much less categorically prevented any mass shooting? As I stated, he was likely breaking 3 laws just by possessing the weapon in that venue, much less all the laws he broke discharging it and ultimately committing murder, which could be said to show the failure of gun legislation already in place.
To take it to your point about "any old schmoe with a shovel can build a bridge" (which I will say is a bit facetious and dismissive of my arguments thus far, but I understand the hyperbole and the point you're trying to make). The solution to that problem is to require licensing and education in order to safely practice a skill. Would the application of that logic to be that any person who wants to buy a gun must become a licensed weapons holder, taking a course and an aptitude test in order to own a weapon? That sounds OK to me, I'd like to think that I would pass a course on gun safety with flying colors and be allowed to carry and own much as I do today. Is that the course of action that is discussed or implemented? Mostly no, the standard talking point is to BAN THE GUNS from certain places or BAN THIS SPECIFIC TYPE OF GUN. Is that effective? Is it in any way similar to the practice of licensing or codified engineering/construction methods?
Quote from: Charles Hunter on August 27, 2018, 12:25:59 PM
j_h_e, thanks for your reasoned response. The NRA consistently opposes basic registration requirements (who owns which guns). I am certain they would oppose requirements for showing competency in the safety and use of guns. Since they bankroll enough legislators, at the state and federal levels, to prevent such laws from happening. So, your point about legislators not doing what the voters want is correct.
We don't really know much yet about the killer, his motive, how he got the weapon, etc. So it's too early to say what if anything might have prevented the tragedy.
Quote from: KenFSU on August 27, 2018, 12:20:01 PM
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on August 27, 2018, 09:06:16 AM
I wonder if this tragedy might be the spur to get Curry and Sleiman to sit down and put aside grievances and craft a future strategy for the Landing.
The more likely, more depressing alternative is that the shooting gets politicized by both sides. Sleiman's lawsuit against the city alleges that they fail to provide proper security, among other things, at the Landing. And Curry wants to tear down the Landing because he thinks its blighted. Hope I'm wrong, but I could see both sides using the shooting as justification that they are "right" about the Landing's problems.
That sounds accurate.
Thankfully we have the right to defend ourselves from maniacs with easy access to weapons of war. Just use precautions like the following:
Taking the kids downtown? Pocket pistol!
Going for a run on the River Walk? Strap one to your waist
Cyclists? Slide a compact under your Lycra
Boating to the Landing? Keep your flare gun out as you approach
If you intend on drinking, just make sure you don't consume too much. Tipsy patrons wielding firearms around homicidal maniacs and responding LEOs might cause problems.
In all seriousness, an armed populace is not the answer to this problem. Outside of a very select few, most gun owners lack the training, awareness, and experience to effectively take down an active shooter. As we saw yesterday. a shooter with a semi-automatic hand gun can end many lives in just a few seconds. As bad as it was, it could have been much worse.
The Baltimore Sun reports that Katz suffered from "emotional and social struggles" and was hospitalized for psychiatric treatment at one time. He used two guns in the shooting, and had purchased them legally in the Baltimore area.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-jacksonville-david-katz-08272018-story.html
Also, under federal law, gun buyers are required to inform a seller if they have been involuntarily committed to a mental institution. According to the news, the shooter had twice been hospitalized for mental health issues. So how well did the voluntary "inform a seller" work? How about having a nationwide database? Oh, sorry the NRA is against that! https://www.news4jax.com/news/records-landing-gunman-twice-hospitalized-for-mental-health (https://www.news4jax.com/news/records-landing-gunman-twice-hospitalized-for-mental-health)
along with hippa
Some strong opinions here... hope everyone got out and voted... Polls are open until 7pm... 8)
Quote
Morgan & Morgan announces lawsuit for Jacksonville Landing victim
By Eileen Kelley
Posted at 11:58 AM
Updated at 11:58 AM
The first lawsuit is being filed in the wake of the mass shooting that killed three people including the suspected gunman and injured about a dozen others during a Madden NFL 19 tournament Sunday at The Jacksonville Landing.
Morgan & Morgan attorneys Matt Morgan, Tim Moran and James Young have been retained by a victim who was shot twice, the law firm announced Tuesday morning during a news conference.
...
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180828/morgan-amp-morgan-announces-lawsuit-for-jacksonville-landing-victim
For those who are tired of the paywalls: https://www.news4jax.com/news/1st-lawsuit-in-jacksonville-landing-shooting-to-be-filed
Quote from: thelakelander on August 28, 2018, 01:52:08 PM
For those who are tired of the paywalls: https://www.news4jax.com/news/1st-lawsuit-in-jacksonville-landing-shooting-to-be-filed
Curry vs. Sleiman vs. Morgan & Morgan.
Should be whatever the opposite of fun is.
P.S. ProTip -> Open JBJ and Jacksonville.com links in private/incognito browsing windows to get around the paywalls.
Support quality journalism as well obviously, but the Times-Union group are out of their minds being so spastic and non-communicative while charging more than the New York Times.
Yes, I don't mind supporting quality journalism. Just not so supportive of paying for basic news that can be found for free elsewhere. At that point, I feel like I'm being taken advantage of.
How about this a starting point. Anyone with a medical marijuana card, self-identify as a recreational user, or has neen arrested for possession (even if charges are dropped) or lives in a house with anyone that meets these 3 scenarios are barred from not only buying a gun, but must turn in any existing guns.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/scientists-discover-genetic-link-between-13151184
Quote from: Kerry on August 28, 2018, 04:05:37 PM
How about this a starting point. Anyone with a medical marijuana card, self-identify as a recreational user, or has neen arrested for possession (even if charges are dropped) or lives in a house with anyone that meets these 3 scenarios are barred from not only buying a gun, but must turn in any existing guns.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/scientists-discover-genetic-link-between-13151184
The researchers used an analysis technique called "Mendelian randomisation" to show a causal relationship between schizophrenia and an increased risk of cannabis use.
I think you misread the article, so how about no.
How about we change the nature of political and economic systems that drives these behaviors. How about we recognize that mental health issues are real and begin to apply the same research vigor toward mental health that we do toward cancer.. Ohh we wont cause we cant derive profit from understanding why the brain goes haywire. So we politicize, send thoughts and prayers (laughable) then move on to ridiculous proclamations that health care is not a right, its too expensive, list 10 other lame excuses and wait patiently for the next mass shooting.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 28, 2018, 03:44:24 PM
Yes, I don't mind supporting quality journalism. Just not so supportive of paying for basic news that can be found for free elsewhere. At that point, I feel like I'm being taken advantage of.
On top of that, there's also the ethical question as to whether information - particularly local information about things like elections, violence, safety, storms, etc - should be partitioned off from the lower classes. Clearly doesn't apply to things like restaurant reviews and sports commentary, but when there's an active shooting going on, or polls are about to open, or a hurricane is bearing down, it'd be a pretty shitty civic move to pay wall that coverage.
Quote from: Snufflee on August 28, 2018, 04:20:15 PM
Quote from: Kerry on August 28, 2018, 04:05:37 PM
How about this a starting point. Anyone with a medical marijuana card, self-identify as a recreational user, or has neen arrested for possession (even if charges are dropped) or lives in a house with anyone that meets these 3 scenarios are barred from not only buying a gun, but must turn in any existing guns.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/scientists-discover-genetic-link-between-13151184
The researchers used an analysis technique called "Mendelian randomisation" to show a causal relationship between schizophrenia and an increased risk of cannabis use.
I think you misread the article, so how about no.
How about we change the nature of political and economic systems that drives these behaviors. How about we recognize that mental health issues are real and begin to apply the same research vigor toward mental health that we do toward cancer.. Ohh we wont cause we cant derive profit from understanding why the brain goes haywire. So we politicize, send thoughts and prayers (laughable) then move on to ridiculous proclamations that health care is not a right, its too expensive, list 10 other lame excuses and wait patiently for the next mass shooting.
If we can't start at "thou shalt not use drugs and have guns" I don't know where we can start.
Alcohol is a drug.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/251/987/047.jpg)
There is enough research out there to safely say: Playing interactive video games is a drug.
This dude was seriously screwed up. Now we have deadly evidence of it.
A great read is: RESET YOUR CHILD'S BRAIN by Victoria Dunckley, MD. It's a surprisingly easy read and goes into detail about the psychological effects of exposure to screens and electronic devices. No doubt this guy 'symptoms' are discussed in detail in the book.
^This guy's problems went way, way beyond too much screen time.
Quote from: Tacachale on August 29, 2018, 10:46:16 AM
^This guy's problems went way, way beyond too much screen time.
He was probably an undercover cuck/libtard/"muslime"/antifa-type trying to further the trans/homosexual/pedophile agenda or something. It just makes sense.
Sounds like Morgan & Morgan's lawsuit will be against Sleiman, Chicago Pizza, the game bar, and potentially the city of Jacksonville.
Because they're clearly all partially responsible for a random act of violence that could have happened anywhere.
Stay classy, guys.
Is that it? I figured they'd go after the tournament organizers too.
Quote from: KenFSU on August 29, 2018, 12:31:35 PM
Sounds like Morgan & Morgan's lawsuit will be against Sleiman, Chicago Pizza, the game bar, and potentially the city of Jacksonville.
Because they're clearly all partially responsible for a random act of violence that could have happened anywhere.
Stay classy, guys.
FOR THE PEOPLE! ::)
When my wife saw Morgan and Morgan was suing last night she asked me "Who are they going to sue? The shooter is dead." I pretty much rattled off that exact list. I'm suprised EA Sports isn't listed too.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 29, 2018, 01:41:48 PM
Is that it? I figured they'd go after the tournament organizers too.
Yeah, me too. EA's got some deep pockets. Every ambulance chasing shyster worth his vampire fangs knows that local businesses aren't going to be the real tragedy payday.
^Sorry, forgot to mention EA.
They're a likely defendant as well.
Yes, I have read that some of the gamers have been clamoring for security at these events for some time now.
Turns out the shooting wasn't caused by mental health issues, or easy access to firearms, or even lack of security. It was actually caused by paperwork.
I'm really glad the fire marshal was able to crack the case.
File your permits kids, before someone else gets murdered in cold blood.
QuoteA fire department statement said the restaurant's last approved building layout was submitted back in 2009. But the restaurant altered the layout plan without approval to create the GLHF Game Bar, where this past weekend's Madden NFL 19 video gaming tournament was held. That makes it an un-permitted game area, the fire department said.
" If Chicago Pizza would not have altered the layout plan by creating an un-permitted game room area, the video game tournament would not have occurred, and thus, this incident would not have occurred at the Jacksonville Landing," the fire department statement read. "
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180829/chicago-pizza-game-room-where-sunday-shooting-occurred-cited-as-un-permitted-by-jacksonville-fire-marshal
Quote from: KenFSU on August 30, 2018, 07:31:47 AM
Turns out the shooting wasn't caused by mental health issues, or easy access to firearms, or even lack of security. It was actually caused by paperwork.
I'm really glad the fire marshal was able to crack the case.
File your permits kids, before someone else gets murdered in cold blood.
QuoteA fire department statement said the restaurant's last approved building layout was submitted back in 2009. But the restaurant altered the layout plan without approval to create the GLHF Game Bar, where this past weekend's Madden NFL 19 video gaming tournament was held. That makes it an un-permitted game area, the fire department said.
" If Chicago Pizza would not have altered the layout plan by creating an un-permitted game room area, the video game tournament would not have occurred, and thus, this incident would not have occurred at the Jacksonville Landing," the fire department statement read. "
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180829/chicago-pizza-game-room-where-sunday-shooting-occurred-cited-as-un-permitted-by-jacksonville-fire-marshal
That's unfortunate wording, to say the least. While that may technically be true, it's irrelevant. And what if they had filed the appropriate paperwork in time and it had been approved?
If they want to take action against the business, fine. That's fair. But no reason to try and link it to the shooting.
I work next door at the Times Union PAC. Even the well known musicians must pass through security EVERY DAY. Whether performance or rehearsal, our bags are checked!
Not sure how they did not have basic security at the door (of Chicago Pizza). Maybe they did?
Quote from: MusicMan on August 30, 2018, 08:21:35 AM
I work next door at the Times Union PAC. Even the well known musicians must pass through security EVERY DAY. Whether performance or rehearsal, our bags are checked!
Not sure how they did not have basic security at the door (of Chicago Pizza). Maybe they did?
And this is a good thing, trusted people having their shit rifled through daily?
The Landing shooting was the exception, not the rule.
We've had hundreds of thousands of safe events in this city, and there's no reason that every event or establishment in the city needs to have some security goon with a high school diploma feeling up bystanders. Nor could said establishments necessarily afford said goon and security apparatus. Nor, as Parkland showed us, would the goon necessarily do any good in stopping an attack.
This could happen
anywhere.
On the road, at the grocery store, in a parking lot, in a park, whatever.
What are we gonna do, put security checkpoints at every public gathering spot in the city?
Do we love our guns so much that the proper solution to gun violence isn't better controlling access to deadly weapons, but rather spending trillions of dollars a year as a country to have our children felt up or searched every time they enter a pizza parlor? For what? So some 18 year old kid can keep his gawd-given right to walk into a corner store and purchase an instrument of murder, juuuuuuuuuust in case the British redcoats decide to return?
Security's not the answer.
Metal detectors at schools and mass gatherings like football games? Fine.
Being inconvenienced and treated like a suspect every time you go somewhere where a few dozen people have gathered?
That's more "UnAmerican" than putting much, much harsher restrictions on who can own weapons and where they can take them.
Quote
EA announces $1M 'Jacksonville Tribute' donation, community livestream event
Company is setting up a fund for people to contribute to
By Julia Alexander Aug 30, 2018, 7:28am EDT
Electronic Arts via Polygon
EA has announced a new initiative to support the victims of the Jacksonville Landing mass shooting, and unite the community following the tragedy.
On Wednesday evening, the company announced via its website that it would make a $1 million contribution to the victims' families from EA, as well as hold a livestream play event to celebrate the Madden NFL family.
"First, we're making a $1 million contribution to support the victims of last Sunday's events," the announcement reads. "We're also working to set up a fund where others can contribute alongside our donation, and we will come back very soon with further details. Contributions will go to the victims, including the families of Taylor Robertson, Elijah Clayton, and all those who were affected."
https://www.polygon.com/2018/8/30/17799350/ea-jacksonville-shooting-tribute-donation-livestream-eli-clayton-taylor-robertson-fund
Here's EA's website:
https://www.ea.com/news/the-jacksonville-tribute
Quote from: KenFSU on August 30, 2018, 09:11:33 AM
Quote from: MusicMan on August 30, 2018, 08:21:35 AM
I work next door at the Times Union PAC. Even the well known musicians must pass through security EVERY DAY. Whether performance or rehearsal, our bags are checked!
Not sure how they did not have basic security at the door (of Chicago Pizza). Maybe they did?
And this is a good thing, trusted people having their shit rifled through daily?
The Landing shooting was the exception, not the rule.
We've had hundreds of thousands of safe events in this city, and there's no reason that every event or establishment in the city needs to have some security goon with a high school diploma feeling up bystanders. Nor could said establishments necessarily afford said goon and security apparatus. Nor, as Parkland showed us, would the goon necessarily do any good in stopping an attack.
This could happen anywhere.
On the road, at the grocery store, in a parking lot, in a park, whatever.
What are we gonna do, put security checkpoints at every public gathering spot in the city?
Do we love our guns so much that the proper solution to gun violence isn't better controlling access to deadly weapons, but rather spending trillions of dollars a year as a country to have our children felt up or searched every time they enter a pizza parlor? For what? So some 18 year old kid can keep his gawd-given right to walk into a corner store and purchase an instrument of murder, juuuuuuuuuust in case the British redcoats decide to return?
Security's not the answer.
Metal detectors at schools and mass gatherings like football games? Fine.
Being inconvenienced and treated like a suspect every time you go somewhere where a few dozen people have gathered?
That's more "UnAmerican" than putting much, much harsher restrictions on who can own weapons and where they can take them.
I do think Red Flag Legislation is a step in the right direction. I believe it makes it easier for family members and law enforcement to petition the courts to bar an individual from obtaining firearms if there is the belief that such person poses a threat to himself and/or to others. Very often, family members have a clue when someone is off his rocker, and giving them a wide open channel to sound the alarms doesn't solve all the problems, but moves us in the right direction with a very practical solution. I'd go a step further and say that if the family members or law enforcement sound the alarm, the weapons can be confiscated as well. In this case, the parents (especially mother) should have been able to petition local authorities in Maryland to not allow David Katz to purchase the weapons, a purchase he made legally.
Saw some questions on FB that make sense:
How long has the game room been there? I assume it didn't "pop up" just before the Madden tournament, their website had a 2016 copyright.
https://www.glhfgamebar.com/index.html
Have there been no fire, or any other, inspections during that time?
If so, why weren't any citations issued earlier?
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on August 30, 2018, 09:40:27 AM
Quote from: KenFSU on August 30, 2018, 09:11:33 AM
Quote from: MusicMan on August 30, 2018, 08:21:35 AM
I work next door at the Times Union PAC. Even the well known musicians must pass through security EVERY DAY. Whether performance or rehearsal, our bags are checked!
Not sure how they did not have basic security at the door (of Chicago Pizza). Maybe they did?
And this is a good thing, trusted people having their shit rifled through daily?
The Landing shooting was the exception, not the rule.
We've had hundreds of thousands of safe events in this city, and there's no reason that every event or establishment in the city needs to have some security goon with a high school diploma feeling up bystanders. Nor could said establishments necessarily afford said goon and security apparatus. Nor, as Parkland showed us, would the goon necessarily do any good in stopping an attack.
This could happen anywhere.
On the road, at the grocery store, in a parking lot, in a park, whatever.
What are we gonna do, put security checkpoints at every public gathering spot in the city?
Do we love our guns so much that the proper solution to gun violence isn't better controlling access to deadly weapons, but rather spending trillions of dollars a year as a country to have our children felt up or searched every time they enter a pizza parlor? For what? So some 18 year old kid can keep his gawd-given right to walk into a corner store and purchase an instrument of murder, juuuuuuuuuust in case the British redcoats decide to return?
Security's not the answer.
Metal detectors at schools and mass gatherings like football games? Fine.
Being inconvenienced and treated like a suspect every time you go somewhere where a few dozen people have gathered?
That's more "UnAmerican" than putting much, much harsher restrictions on who can own weapons and where they can take them.
I do think Red Flag Legislation is a step in the right direction. I believe it makes it easier for family members and law enforcement to petition the courts to bar an individual from obtaining firearms if there is the belief that such person poses a threat to himself and/or to others. Very often, family members have a clue when someone is off his rocker, and giving them a wide open channel to sound the alarms doesn't solve all the problems, but moves us in the right direction with a very practical solution. I'd go a step further and say that if the family members or law enforcement sound the alarm, the weapons can be confiscated as well. In this case, the parents (especially mother) should have been able to petition local authorities in Maryland to not allow David Katz to purchase the weapons, a purchase he made legally.
Totally agree that Red Flag legislation should be a no-brainer.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on August 30, 2018, 09:47:28 AM
Saw some questions on FB that make sense:
How long has the game room been there? I assume it didn't "pop up" just before the Madden tournament, their website had a 2016 copyright.
https://www.glhfgamebar.com/index.html
Have there been no fire, or any other, inspections during that time?
If so, why weren't any citations issued earlier?
It was in the news and everything when it opened, and they must've gotten a go ahead from the landing. I can't imagine all that could have happened without the city knowing about it.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on August 30, 2018, 09:47:28 AM
Saw some questions on FB that make sense:
How long has the game room been there? I assume it didn't "pop up" just before the Madden tournament, their website had a 2016 copyright.
https://www.glhfgamebar.com/index.html
Have there been no fire, or any other, inspections during that time?
If so, why weren't any citations issued earlier?
Given the fact that it took several years for the fire department to realize Bold City Brewery wasn't even licensed to have customers inside the taproom (despite having inspected them every year and even cited the grill Jolly Mon was using at one point), I wouldn't be surprised this went under the radar.
Yeah I remember it being announced a few years back and I thought it was a clever use for a Landing space.
The fire marshal did an extensive 'surprise visit' of the Landing the Friday evening before the FL/GA game and shut down many of the outdoor bars setup to serve party goers and denied entry to several hundred paid guests trying to enter the Landing (which is closed to the public and heavily policed with extensive crowd control measures in place during FL/GA weekend) and issued several citations on empty storefronts being used for storage... many appeared bogus and have since been cleared. This visit came just a few days after the City's/Sleiman's competing lawsuits ramped up (isn't that a coincidence?).
Chicago Pizza has been in operation for roughly 10 years. The only change in that time was to replace several dining tables with arcade games and gaming consoles. It can be legitimately argued that the physical occupancy of the space decreased from the permitted occupancy due to these changes. How does replacing a dining booth with an arcade game constitute a fire hazard?
This is simply the City and State trying to insulate themselves, after the fact, from impending lawsuits. Unfortunately, covering one's backside due to potential legal actions, finger pointing and political grandstanding isn't going to help solve the problem.
Sunday was a real tragedy. The city was marred with violent crimes the entire weekend. Hopefully, the victims of these crimes will find solace and peace soon... and we as a society can do better to respect human life and dignity.
QuoteI work next door at the Times Union PAC. Even the well known musicians must pass through security EVERY DAY. Whether performance or rehearsal, our bags are checked!
Not sure how they did not have basic security at the door (of Chicago Pizza). Maybe they did?
I have bypassed the security desk several times when visiting the Cultural Council's or SMG's office. Let's not pretend that TUPAC is somehow Fort Knox.
I was at the Landing at approx 10:30am Sunday morning and saw two of the Landing's security officers on site walking the courtyard and two police cruisers parked on the front lawn (there is a police substation inside the Landing).
"I have bypassed the security desk several times when visiting the Cultural Council's or SMG's office. Let's not pretend that TUPAC is somehow Fort Knox."
Really? SMG would probably love to know that, since they are the ones responsible for security. I'm there a lot. So not sure when you just breezed right past security but not in the last year. What door are you going in through? Also they have decent CCTV observing most of the perimeter of the building, indoors as well. I'm guessing there is no "security" office at The Landing, but I could be wrong.
I hate to break it to you, but even the attorneys who make a living at the court house go through security.
Quote from: MusicMan on August 30, 2018, 12:26:06 PM
"I have bypassed the security desk several times when visiting the Cultural Council's or SMG's office. Let's not pretend that TUPAC is somehow Fort Knox."
Really? SMG would probably love to know that, since they are the ones responsible for security. I'm there a lot. So not sure when you just breezed right past security but not in the last year. What door are you going in through? Also they have decent CCTV observing most of the perimeter of the building, indoors as well. I'm guessing there is no "security" office at The Landing, but I could be wrong.
I hate to break it to you, but even the attorneys who make a living at the court house go through security.
Guess you missed out key elements of my response:
QuoteI have bypassed the security desk several times when visiting the Cultural Council's or SMG's office. Let's not pretend that TUPAC is somehow Fort Knox.
I was at the Landing at approx 10:30am Sunday morning and saw two of the Landing's security officers on site walking the courtyard and two police cruisers parked on the front lawn (there is a police substation inside the Landing).
The Landing has private security on site 24/7/365 and a 'security office', in addition to a police substation.
The fact that you are stunned that someone could bypass a security guard making $12/hour, is telling. No firearms are allowed on the Landing property (just as they aren't allowed at TUPAC, the Courthouse or any number of places), yet a tragedy happened Sunday.
I've been the victim of violent crime, and have had loved ones die at the hands of another. It's tough to wrap your ahead around watching someone you love die in front of you. Bad people do bad things. I'm interested in learning more about how people make bad decisions like shooting people in cold blood outside of a high school football game, and solutions on how to correct that before it happens. From first hand experience, I'm not entirely sure that more private security guards is the answer to the violent crime epidemic going on in Jacksonville.
On NPR this morning Melissa Ross said that the original venue for this tournament was going to be the WJCT building, but it was moved due to the Jags playing this weekend.
Quote from: KenFSU on August 28, 2018, 05:48:39 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 28, 2018, 03:44:24 PM
Yes, I don't mind supporting quality journalism. Just not so supportive of paying for basic news that can be found for free elsewhere. At that point, I feel like I'm being taken advantage of.
On top of that, there's also the ethical question as to whether information - particularly local information about things like elections, violence, safety, storms, etc - should be partitioned off from the lower classes. Clearly doesn't apply to things like restaurant reviews and sports commentary, but when there's an active shooting going on, or polls are about to open, or a hurricane is bearing down, it'd be a pretty shitty civic move to pay wall that coverage.
Case in point.
The Times-Union paywalling an article today about free flu shots.
Seriously?
(https://snag.gy/Zx31AC.jpg)