https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/demolition-permit-sought-for-former-greyhound-station
In my humble opinion, it would be unfortunate to tear this down with no near-term alternative residential or commercial uses for the property. I actually think the building has significant potential for adaptive reuse. If this is coming down for a parking lot or yet another "car stack," well it's too bad.
Between decks and surface lots, there are already several blocks purely dedicated to parking in this area. Allowing a pure-play parking deck to cover another lot would be a shame.
https://www.google.com/maps/search/parking/@30.3282862,-81.6630684,794m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1
Ramon Llorens has implied in the past that the property their group is acquiring is a speculative, long-term investment that they intend to hold on to.
My guess is that they're tearing it down for surface parking in the interim.
If that's the case, or in the absence of any immediate plan to develop the lot, I hope the permit is denied.
I like the building, it's got character.
Scuttlebutt I have heard is that the plan is to build a high rise taller than BOA on the lot, which is why he bought the Omni parking lot, so the line of sight to the river is preserved.
however this info is 3rd or 4th hand me down info when I heard it, so take it for what it is worth....
Why wouldn't they just build the high rise on the Omni lot then?
Quote from: acme54321 on August 01, 2018, 03:06:25 PM
Why wouldn't they just build the high rise on the Omni lot then?
Greyhound is a full block, Omni is a little over half of the block. Larger footprint is my guess. If I had to guess, the Omni lot will become another parking garage to support the new structure on the Greyhound lot, but that is only a shot in the dark guess.
Quote from: Houseboat Mike on August 01, 2018, 03:21:35 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on August 01, 2018, 03:06:25 PM
Why wouldn't they just build the high rise on the Omni lot then?
Greyhound is a full block, Omni is a little over half of the block. Larger footprint is my guess. If I had to guess, the Omni lot will become another parking garage to support the new structure on the Greyhound lot, but that is only a shot in the dark guess.
The block the Omni is on is about 4x the Greyhound block. The parking lot and Greyhound lot are very similar in size.
Quote from: acme54321 on August 01, 2018, 03:30:16 PM
Quote from: Houseboat Mike on August 01, 2018, 03:21:35 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on August 01, 2018, 03:06:25 PM
Why wouldn't they just build the high rise on the Omni lot then?
Greyhound is a full block, Omni is a little over half of the block. Larger footprint is my guess. If I had to guess, the Omni lot will become another parking garage to support the new structure on the Greyhound lot, but that is only a shot in the dark guess.
The block the Omni is on is about 4x the Greyhound block. The parking lot and Greyhound lot are very similar in size.
Like I said, this is 3rd generation hand me down info. Totally possible they will build the high rise at omni and Greyhound will be parking. But it is fun to guess..... ;D
Quote from: Houseboat Mike on August 01, 2018, 02:54:00 PM
Scuttlebutt I have heard is that the plan is to build a high rise taller than BOA on the lot, which is why he bought the Omni parking lot, so the line of sight to the river is preserved.
however this info is 3rd or 4th hand me down info when I heard it, so take it for what it is worth....
Don't get Heights Unknown's hopes up like that, and then walk it back.
Quote from: vicupstate on August 01, 2018, 03:58:26 PM
Quote from: Houseboat Mike on August 01, 2018, 02:54:00 PM
Scuttlebutt I have heard is that the plan is to build a high rise taller than BOA on the lot, which is why he bought the Omni parking lot, so the line of sight to the river is preserved.
however this info is 3rd or 4th hand me down info when I heard it, so take it for what it is worth....
Don't get Heights Unknown's hopes up like that, and then walk it back.
The height of the development IS unknown, so there's that...
Annnnnnnnnnnnnd, after 62 years, she's gone forever :(
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/photo-gallery/former-greyhound-station-torn-down
I have a feeling that there is more going on with this site than we've been lead to believe.
Kinda sad - used to arrive there several times when visiting my American family in the 90s (could get cheap employee standby tickets to ATL and took the bus from there - was a pretty long journey).
I did feel somewhat out of place travelling in a suit and tie as I was supposed to look "proper"e when travelling on standby, but the joy of getting back to Jax made it all worth while :)
My memories of the old bus station was from when I was a kid in the 80's and occasionally had to pick up friends and relatives coming through there. What struck me were the number of kids coming off the buses unaccompanied by adults with a beaten-down-by-life demeanor I rarely saw from friends or other kids that age. I soon found out that many of them were aimless runaways that just wanted to be in Florida for whatever reason. Many disembarked here because this was the first Florida stop or couldn't afford to go any further south and ended up homeless in Jax Beach.
That bus station was always a depressing place to pick up or drop off friends and relatives, even more so that the crappy Amtrak station. And the Burger King that was there at the time sucked. I just felt bad for a lot of those kids, even though I guess they contributed to the edgy music culture that emerged from the beach back in the day. Given the urgency to tear that place down there must be some really big plans for that piece of land so I say good riddance.
I took a Greyhound to Miami around 1980 for a cruise. (In those days, when the Caribbean market was in its relative infancy, Miami was the only regular cruise port in Florida.) Even then, it was an "experience" seeing some members of society I wasn't regularly exposed to 8). Was kind of glad the trip was only a few hours as my girlfriend was leery of some of our fellow passenger's manners and hygiene. The best part is it was cheap and we didn't have to worry about parking a car in Miami. The cruise line even picked up passengers then at Greyhound. (I don't recall that they had parking lots for cruise passengers like they do today.)
I did like the Jax terminal's period architecture and the iconic Greyhound and "BUS" neon signs. I hope they salvaged those. Seems the building would have made a great food court or home to boutique retailers so badly needed in downtown. Also, maybe as a home to a colony of creative types. The lack of imagination in re-purposing downtown buildings is striking and sad for our history and real character. How charming is a new glass and steel building with no street level interaction? Demolition is such a cop out, especially when there are no immediate plans for a replacement structure. Jax has no real strategic and coherent plan for saving its past, just leaving it to a few scarce, random and disjointed outcomes. That lack of synergy is why downtown doesn't do better.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on September 15, 2018, 10:49:53 PM
I took a Greyhound to Miami around 1980 for a cruise. (In those days, when the Caribbean market was in its relative infancy, Miami was the only regular cruise port in Florida.) Even then, it was an "experience" seeing some members of society I wasn't regularly exposed to 8). Was kind of glad the trip was only a few hours as my girlfriend was leery of some of our fellow passenger's manners and hygiene. The best part is it was cheap and we didn't have to worry about parking a car in Miami. The cruise line even picked up passengers then at Greyhound. (I don't recall that they had parking lots for cruise passengers like they do today.)
I did like the Jax terminal's period architecture and the iconic Greyhound and "BUS" neon signs. I hoped they salvaged those. Seems the building would have made a great food court or home to boutique retailers so badly needed in downtown. Also, maybe as a home to a colony of creative types. The lack of imagination in re-purposing downtown buildings is striking and sad for our history and real character. How charming is a new glass and steel building with no street level interaction? Demolition is such a cop out, especially when there are no immediate plans for a replacement structure. Jax has no real strategic and coherent plan for saving its past, just leaving it to a few scarce, random and disjointed outcomes. That lack of synergy is why downtown doesn't do better.
I tend to agree with this. I don't understand why buildings downtown can be demolished without permitting for new, replacement construction. Downtown doesn't need more surface lots. Actions occur which create voids and vacancies and, in essence, shoot downtown's efforts in the foot, and then the city cobbles together expensive incentive programs to try and rectify. It's really a complete circle of insanity. Frankly, the city really hasn't shown itself deserving of a vibrant downtown. Outsiders come in, tear down structures and buildings, leave surface lots and building carcasses behind - and in the name of limited government (I suppose), the city does little to defend its heritage, its sense of originality, its written plans (adherence to Brooklyn Design Codes, e.g.)...in other words, its integrity.
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on September 16, 2018, 10:33:15 AM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on September 15, 2018, 10:49:53 PM
I took a Greyhound to Miami around 1980 for a cruise. (In those days, when the Caribbean market was in its relative infancy, Miami was the only regular cruise port in Florida.) Even then, it was an "experience" seeing some members of society I wasn't regularly exposed to 8). Was kind of glad the trip was only a few hours as my girlfriend was leery of some of our fellow passenger's manners and hygiene. The best part is it was cheap and we didn't have to worry about parking a car in Miami. The cruise line even picked up passengers then at Greyhound. (I don't recall that they had parking lots for cruise passengers like they do today.)
I did like the Jax terminal's period architecture and the iconic Greyhound and "BUS" neon signs. I hoped they salvaged those. Seems the building would have made a great food court or home to boutique retailers so badly needed in downtown. Also, maybe as a home to a colony of creative types. The lack of imagination in re-purposing downtown buildings is striking and sad for our history and real character. How charming is a new glass and steel building with no street level interaction? Demolition is such a cop out, especially when there are no immediate plans for a replacement structure. Jax has no real strategic and coherent plan for saving its past, just leaving it to a few scarce, random and disjointed outcomes. That lack of synergy is why downtown doesn't do better.
I tend to agree with this. I don't understand why buildings downtown can be demolished without permitting for new, replacement construction. Downtown doesn't need more surface lots. Again, steps are taken which appear to shoot downtown's efforts in the foot, and then the city cobbles together expensive incentive programs to try and save downtown. It's really a complete circle of insanity. Frankly, the city really doesn't deserve a vibrant downtown - the regional culture doesn't appear to be imbued with the special sauce of what would make for a vibrant downtown district. Outsiders come in, tear down structures and buildings, leave surface lots and building carcasses behind - and in the name of limited government (I suppose), the city does little to defend its heritage and sense of originality.
+1
could not agree more. I mean, there are so many empty lots, why does anyone even need to demolish one of the few existing structures to build something new - they can just take their pick of one of the many abandoned lots.
It was a huge eyesore. Demoing it makes the lot way more attractive to developers. It is in a central location and will not be empty for long. Empty lots are just that until they aren't anymore. At the rate downtown is going, these empties will start filling in just like in Lavilla. That was moonscape forever and seems like every week a new apartment facility is going up.
Not sure I buy this. Developers wanting to make money don't care what the building currently looks like. They look at what they want it to be (either through demo and rebuild or a renovation).
Under this argument, Savannah and Charleston would still be dumps.
Its the same guy that owns the everbank / tiaa building. Get ready for another parking deck.
I know that many want either a perfect repurpose of an old non-historic unadorned bus station, or for the space to be turned into a shiny new landmark hi-rise, but sometimes cities need utilitarian buildings like a parking garage, esp for TIAA Bank. There isn't a 'learning from Jax" city that doesn't have many garages. Now I would hate for that space to be a surface lot, any criticism of that would be totally justified.
Quote from: I-10east on September 18, 2018, 10:37:21 PM
I know that many want either a perfect repurpose of an old non-historic unadorned bus station, or for the space to be turned into a shiny new landmark hi-rise, but sometimes cities need utilitarian buildings like a parking garage, esp for TIAA Bank. There isn't a 'learning from Jax" city that doesn't have many garages. Now I would hate for that space to be a surface lot, any criticism of that would be totally justified.
Your last sentence is my point. Personally, I don't have any love for the building. But, in practice I don't love demolition for nothing. If they were committing to a development so be it.
And personally if it's a garage then I'm content with it....so long as it's designed properly.
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on September 16, 2018, 10:33:15 AM
I don't understand why buildings downtown can be demolished without permitting for new, replacement construction.
a) Because it's their right; it's their property.
b) The existing structure is a liability.
c) The existing structure had no significant historical value.
d) The existing structure was built as a bus terminal. It had very little actual indoor building space on a very large footprint. Don't let the outside walls trick you, 7/8th of the property was already little more than a surface lot.
A few of these points could be considered opinion. In particular, b) what's makes it more of a liability than any other existing building downtown?, c) if enough research is done and the political support is there, an argument for preservation could be made, d) the existing structure had over 26,000 square feet of air conditioned space. The nondescript WPB warehouse repurposed as a food hall/public market in the recent Jaxson article (link and pictures below) was 14,000 square feet with less significance.
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/west-palm-beachs-warehouse-district/
About the most sound answer to jaxnyc79's post is that the city allows it. As for the property owners, the WPB owner saw potential in their vacant structure because it aligned with a vision they had and the Jax property owner did not....likely because they view parking for their adjacent tower as a better use.
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on September 21, 2018, 10:34:44 AM
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on September 16, 2018, 10:33:15 AM
I don't understand why buildings downtown can be demolished without permitting for new, replacement construction.
a) Because it's their right; it's their property.
b) The existing structure is a liability.
c) The existing structure had no significant historical value.
d) The existing structure was built as a bus terminal. It had very little actual indoor building space on a very large footprint. Don't let the outside walls trick you, 7/8th of the property was already little more than a surface lot.
OK, if it is "their right and property" and to hell with urban design principles and planning, then Jax should get completely out of the downtown revitalization game and not spend one additional penny on incentives.
Seems like there is a 1990's demolition boom going on downtown. We are about to get a whole new set of empty lots with the shipyards expanding west along the riverfront. Very exciting.
Quote from: I-10east on September 18, 2018, 10:37:21 PM
I know that many want either a perfect repurpose of an old non-historic unadorned bus station, or for the space to be turned into a shiny new landmark hi-rise, but sometimes cities need utilitarian buildings like a parking garage, esp for TIAA Bank. There isn't a 'learning from Jax" city that doesn't have many garages. Now I would hate for that space to be a surface lot, any criticism of that would be totally justified.
There are no plans to build a parking garage on the site. It will be used as a surface parking lot to serve the TIAA Bank Tower.