Plans for Jones Brothers Furniture lofts released
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/History/Jones-Brothers-Furniture/i-LrSTRCW/0/c5a2d958/L/title%20outside-L.jpg)
The long abandoned Jones Brothers Furniture Building at the southwest corner of Church and Hogan Streets is the latest structure in the Northbank identified for redevelopment.
Read More: https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2018-may-plans-for-jones-brothers-furniture-lofts-released-
I like that this development has interior-block parking without a car lot fronting any of downtown's streets.
It would be nice to see a little more effort put into the facade of the one story building next door. Maybe some awnings or areas in the facade for outdoor dining. However, I guess beggars can't be choosy.
Since one of the common threads on MJ is fixing up old buildings, Jones Brothers is like the Taj Mahal compared to Genovar's Hall.
Lake is there a photographic record of Genovar's Hall from back in the day? Something that could be drawn upon when the restoration begins?
The buildings are in an apples to oranges situation. Genovars was in the middle of being stripped to a shell (like the Barnett) when its restoration died a decade ago. Jones has just been vacant. It will need interior demo too.
Nevertheless, yes there's information of what Genovars resembled before the failed restoration project started.
I like it; design/proposed design looks rather ordinary, standard and generic though. Hope there's several designs on the table; to me the design needs a little more imagination. What's up with that JONES BROTHERS logo/sign on the side of the building? Are they keeping that on there? Looks kind of tacky to me. Believe it or not, I met those two guys, yes the Jones Brothers, back around 1978/79 I believe. They used to frequent a downtown bar and tavern I hung out at as a young guy when I was in the Navy called the Flamingo Bar and Liquors on Main street just around the corner from main and duval streets. Silver haired, humorous guys, life of the party liberals...and I got the feeling they were gay and they were always together and frequented most of the bars downtown (back when there were quite a few downtown). Hope this comes to fruition soon. I am planning on moving back to Jax and will need a place to stay (will be looking around October or so). Awesome.
^I like the Jones Bros signage. Similar to the Barnett, It's what everyone knows the building as already, and it's a nice nod to its history.
I hope they keep the original logo typeface instead of what's shown in those renderings.
Looks nice but they should add some awnings or tress, even the rendering looks scorching hot.
Quote from: MusicMan on May 13, 2018, 12:02:22 PMLake is there a photographic record of Genovar's Hall from back in the day? Something that could be drawn upon when the restoration begins?
Here's a pic from the early 1990s.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/History/Downtown-Jacksonville-1990s/i-PMXMhKR/0/ae7fb44a/L/PTDC0009-L.jpg)
Wow. Unrecognizable.
THANKS!!
You know it would make a pretty cool venue for a pool hall or similar use.
Quote from: MusicMan on May 15, 2018, 08:35:20 AM
Wow. Unrecognizable.
THANKS!!
You know it would make a pretty cool venue for a pool hall or similar use.
Still love the idea of restoring it back into a Jazz-themed restaurant or club that plays off the venue's history.
Quote from: KenFSU on May 13, 2018, 08:25:25 PM
^I like the Jones Bros signage. Similar to the Barnett, It's what everyone knows the building as already, and it's a nice nod to its history.
Thanks Ken for jogging my brain; you persuaded me to accept it, I guess, but it seems sometimes Jax is resistant to change; yes, people (older people), will know it as the Jones Brothers Building, but the younger ones I believe don't really care. Anyhoo, you persuaded me.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 14, 2018, 07:09:23 PM
Quote from: MusicMan on May 13, 2018, 12:02:22 PMLake is there a photographic record of Genovar's Hall from back in the day? Something that could be drawn upon when the restoration begins?
Here's a pic from the early 1990s.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/History/Downtown-Jacksonville-1990s/i-PMXMhKR/0/ae7fb44a/L/PTDC0009-L.jpg)
I remember when it looked like that; but did you get your posts mixed up in your threads? We're talking about the Jones Bro's Building. But anyhoo, I might have drifted in and out of there in the early 90's as I was in my early to mid 30's and was all over the place slamming bars, taverns, nightclubs, wherever I laid my hat was my home LOL.
I like the Jones building with the Skyway tracks in front of it. Reminds me of Jake and Elwood's apartment.
Sorry, I hijacked the thread.
Just drove past it, not a big building. Would want more sq feet for my pool hall....
Looks great. I'm hoping that "coffee shop" is just a placeholder idea, though. The core needs diversity in food & drink options almost as much as it needs residential space.
Quote from: lastdaysoffla on May 15, 2018, 09:59:53 PM
Looks great. I'm hoping that "coffee shop" is just a placeholder idea, though. The core needs diversity in food & drink options almost as much as it needs residential space.
I agree; how many dog gone coffee shops can you have? That's gonna play out real quick if there's too many.
You'll be amazed. In Philly, it feels like there's a Dunkin Donuts on every other block. In Seattle, it feels like there's a Starbucks on every other block. In Asheville, it feels like there's a craft brewery on every other block. Ultimately, the market will decide what's our saturation point.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 14, 2018, 07:09:23 PM
Quote from: MusicMan on May 13, 2018, 12:02:22 PMLake is there a photographic record of Genovar's Hall from back in the day? Something that could be drawn upon when the restoration begins?
Here's a pic from the early 1990s.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/History/Downtown-Jacksonville-1990s/i-PMXMhKR/0/ae7fb44a/L/PTDC0009-L.jpg)
Saw a similiar building in Pilsen (Chicago) earlier this week:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Chicago/May-2017/i-M2VD5Hc/0/88dd92aa/L/20180513_121447-L.jpg)
Quote from: thelakelander on May 16, 2018, 06:32:40 AM
You'll be amazed. In Philly, it feels like there's a Dunkin Donuts on every other block. In Seattle, it feels like there's a Starbucks on every other block. In Asheville, it feels like there's a craft brewery on every other block. Ultimately, the market will decide what's our saturation point.
In all due respect, in Jacksonville there will be a parking garage on every other block, with a coffee shop on the ground floor, and a coffee shop on the ground floor of just about all other businesses. In my opinion, Jacksonville is not really a "coffee shop" city like seattle or philly. We should strive to utilize our own identity, our southern identity and roots, i.e., maybe a few small diners that not only serve coffee, but breakfast...I think that's the southern, north florida way. (just shooting off here...never mind me please).
Quote from: thelakelander on May 16, 2018, 06:53:48 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on May 14, 2018, 07:09:23 PM
Quote from: MusicMan on May 13, 2018, 12:02:22 PMLake is there a photographic record of Genovar's Hall from back in the day? Something that could be drawn upon when the restoration begins?
Here's a pic from the early 1990s.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/History/Downtown-Jacksonville-1990s/i-PMXMhKR/0/ae7fb44a/L/PTDC0009-L.jpg)
Saw a similiar building in Pilsen (Chicago) earlier this week:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Chicago/May-2017/i-M2VD5Hc/0/88dd92aa/L/20180513_121447-L.jpg)
Damn, it's almost identical. I wonder if it was the same architect and maybe we got that design (someone did maybe) from Chicago. WOW.
DDRB gave conception approval last night for the Jones Brothers building yesterday. Progress!
Incentive package approved:
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180827/jones-bros-building-restoration-and-malivai-foundation-teen-center-approved-by-city-committee
Quote from: KenFSU on August 27, 2018, 09:50:38 PM
Incentive package approved:
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180827/jones-bros-building-restoration-and-malivai-foundation-teen-center-approved-by-city-committee
2.37 million for 28 apartments seems rich, to say the least. How I wish something like "The District" could have been incentivized in the Northbank core...bringing a sizable chunk of residential at the same time as retail and entertainment and commercial space...a simultaneous mixed-use clustering...a ball of energy to other downtown endeavors. It's nice that Jones is coming back, but based on a recent walk through the downtown core, it really is not an appealing place to be. Something needs to come online that sort of fills a multitude of voids all at once. Once there's more allure to being downtown, renovations like Jones can happen without as much investment per unit.
The District won't be built all at once. The Jones Bros. project will have retail and office uses in addition to residential. Retail follows rooftops, so putting another 28 units will help draw more. It also is building upon what is already going on with Sweet Pete's. The pioneer projects need more subsidy than the ones that will come in it's wake. $750 k will be paid back also.
It also puts a city owned property on the tax rolls.
Plus, historic rehabs are important to me. I'm willing to spend a little more on them.
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on August 28, 2018, 12:28:32 AM
Quote from: KenFSU on August 27, 2018, 09:50:38 PM
Incentive package approved:
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180827/jones-bros-building-restoration-and-malivai-foundation-teen-center-approved-by-city-committee
2.37 million for 28 apartments seems rich, to say the least. How I wish something like "The District" could have been incentivized in the Northbank core...bringing a sizable chunk of residential at the same time as retail and entertainment and commercial space...a simultaneous mixed-use clustering...a ball of energy to other downtown endeavors. It's nice that Jones is coming back, but based on a recent walk through the downtown core, it really is not an appealing place to be. Something needs to come online that sort of fills a multitude of voids all at once. Once there's more allure to being downtown, renovations like Jones can happen without as much investment per unit.
The article notes that $1.5 million of the incentives package comes in the form of a historic preservation grant.
Could be wrong, but I think that money would come from the state, rather than the city.
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on August 28, 2018, 12:28:32 AM
Quote from: KenFSU on August 27, 2018, 09:50:38 PM
Incentive package approved:
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180827/jones-bros-building-restoration-and-malivai-foundation-teen-center-approved-by-city-committee
2.37 million for 28 apartments seems rich, to say the least. How I wish something like "The District" could have been incentivized in the Northbank core...bringing a sizable chunk of residential at the same time as retail and entertainment and commercial space...a simultaneous mixed-use clustering...a ball of energy to other downtown endeavors. It's nice that Jones is coming back, but based on a recent walk through the downtown core, it really is not an appealing place to be. Something needs to come online that sort of fills a multitude of voids all at once. Once there's more allure to being downtown, renovations like Jones can happen without as much investment per unit.
The District, like any project of that scope, will not happen 'at once'. Generally, developments like The District usually take 15-20 years to achieve full build out. In the case of The District, it took the developer over 3 years to get through the entitlement process and to purchase the property. They still have to form a CDD before they can break ground on the infrastructure that will serve the development. I'd be surprised if vertical construction doesn't start until 2020 at the absolute earliest.
Quote from: fieldafm on August 28, 2018, 10:01:53 AM
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on August 28, 2018, 12:28:32 AM
Quote from: KenFSU on August 27, 2018, 09:50:38 PM
Incentive package approved:
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180827/jones-bros-building-restoration-and-malivai-foundation-teen-center-approved-by-city-committee
2.37 million for 28 apartments seems rich, to say the least. How I wish something like "The District" could have been incentivized in the Northbank core...bringing a sizable chunk of residential at the same time as retail and entertainment and commercial space...a simultaneous mixed-use clustering...a ball of energy to other downtown endeavors. It's nice that Jones is coming back, but based on a recent walk through the downtown core, it really is not an appealing place to be. Something needs to come online that sort of fills a multitude of voids all at once. Once there's more allure to being downtown, renovations like Jones can happen without as much investment per unit.
The District, like any project of that scope, will not happen 'at once'. Generally, developments like The District usually take 15-20 years to achieve full build out. In the case of The District, it took the developer over 3 years to get through the entitlement process and to purchase the property. They still have to form a CDD before they can break ground on the infrastructure that will serve the development. I'd be surprised if vertical construction doesn't start until 2020 at the absolute earliest.
Yes, I understand build-out will take time, and I referenced something like the District because of its mixed-use nature with over 1000 units across phases - not necessarily whatever it is that Elements is up to in taking years to actually purchase the land.
Quote from: vicupstate on August 28, 2018, 08:17:43 AM
The District won't be built all at once. The Jones Bros. project will have retail and office uses in addition to residential. Retail follows rooftops, so putting another 28 units will help draw more. It also is building upon what is already going on with Sweet Pete's. The pioneer projects need more subsidy than the ones that will come in it's wake. $750 k will be paid back also.
It also puts a city owned property on the tax rolls.
Yes, I saw the reference to 1000+ square feet of office and 10,000+ square feet or retail. It's not that the project isn't a good one; after all, anything to help clean up downtown is positive. My concern was that the dollar amount of incentives seemed rich for the output, and the output is so small that it does little to re-brand downtown and significantly change the experience down there for an outsider checking it out and looking to form an impression. Frankly, I feel the new Arts District does a ton more to re-brand downtown and create interesting engagements for outsiders, and it's a fraction of the cost. But I'm not sure of the exact nature of the incentives either, like what what form does the 2.37 million bucks take.
Also, I believe we have to look at the smaller projects in a different light. Take the land area a project like the Shipyards or District covers and compare it to a similar area over the Northbank. Then add up all the smaller infill, adaptive reuse, etc. projects proposed or under construction within that area. I think we'd discover they bring just as much energy, value, mix of uses, etc. The largest differences are they're likely to happen sooner, immediately impact/boost the image of the pedestrian scale core and add more creativity into the scene because they're made up of different development teams.
So who is getting the money in the end ? Hionides / associated company or is this for someone who purchased the building from him ?
New render and some additional details on potential plans for Jones Brothers, via the Daily Record (good article, give it a click - https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/downtown-visions-four-business-leaders-share-what-they-believe-the-urban-core-needs).
Interesting note is that the National Park Service has requested that the Jones Brother signage remain as is, and not be redone or repainted.
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/styles/sliders_and_planned_story_image_870x580/public/209425_standard.jpeg)
QuoteWe're working Downtown on the seven-story Jones Brothers Furniture redevelopment and the adjacent one-story Western Union building. The historic 39,000-square-foot Jones Brothers Building was built in 1926. Both are being converted.
The project is on the north side of Downtown at Church and Hogan streets, catty-corner to City Hall.
Jones Brothers is going to be a 28-unit apartment building with a first-floor lobby and 2,500 square feet of retail and office. Five units will be workforce housing for those making up to 80 percent of the annual average median income in Duval County. The rest are market rate.
The Western Union Building is about 10,000 square feet. The entire building will be used for retail and office. It's a one-story building with the height of a two-story building, which allows us the ability to put in mezzanine levels or to have different heights for certain tenants. We see it really adding to the vibrancy of this side of Downtown.
In the back, we've got 36 parking spaces for the residents and business component.
The project uses federal historic tax credits. Aundra Wallace helped us get incentives from the city from the Historic Preservation Trust Fund as well as a low-interest loan from the Downtown Investment Authority.
We are preserving the original Jones Brothers Furniture signage that the National Park Service wants to see. They don't want it repainted. They don't want it messed with. We do intend to light up Jones Brothers in tube lighting. We want to bring back that vintage feel.
Jones Brothers is in an area of Downtown that potentially has the largest amount of historic building stock that is vacant. We're going to work on rebranding the area as The North End and we want to try and promote this as a catalyst. The Ambassador Hotel was recently acquired. We've been talking with them about this branding effort and we want Jones Brothers to be the centerpiece and hopefully act to bring new development, bring new life and bring retailers and businesses to the area.
It's an opportunity for this side of Downtown with the historic building stock. We can create a great fabric that feels very "Jacksonville," with the potential for 400-500 residential units in a three-block area that essentially is noncontributing now.
We're trying to work in a team effort to make this area of Downtown Jacksonville vibrant and filled with residents because the density is what we've got to drive home Downtown and across the urban core to help bring and sustain our commercial tenants for the long term.
This. Is. Awesome.
This is exactly the type of thing we need. Shipyards be damned.
Quote from: KenFSU on November 16, 2018, 10:17:12 AMInteresting note is that the National Park Service has requested that the Jones Brother signage remain as is, and not be redone or repainted.
But they seem to be ok with the developer installing neon lights over it... :o
QuoteWe're trying to work in a team effort to make this area of Downtown Jacksonville vibrant and filled with residents because the density is what we've got to drive home Downtown and across the urban core to help bring and sustain our commercial tenants for the long term.
Crazy talk. Instead, they should try to get an economy of scale discount with the vendor doing the City Hall Annex/Courthouse demolition. Vacant parcels that are 'game changer ready' are the keys to success for urban vitality. For good measure, leave some scabby foundation remnants.
"Jones Brothers is in an area of Downtown that potentially has the largest amount of historic building stock that is vacant. We're going to work on rebranding the area as The North End and we want to try and promote this as a catalyst. The Ambassador Hotel was recently acquired. We've been talking with them about this branding effort and we want Jones Brothers to be the centerpiece and hopefully act to bring new development, bring new life and bring retailers and businesses to the area."
This is how it's done ladies and gentlemen.
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on November 16, 2018, 02:39:21 PM
"Jones Brothers is in an area of Downtown that potentially has the largest amount of historic building stock that is vacant. We're going to work on rebranding the area as The North End and we want to try and promote this as a catalyst. The Ambassador Hotel was recently acquired. We've been talking with them about this branding effort and we want Jones Brothers to be the centerpiece and hopefully act to bring new development, bring new life and bring retailers and businesses to the area."
This is how it's done ladies and gentlemen.
By trying to 'brand' a three block stretch, in the heart of downtown, into some new neighborhood? Not to be a Debbie Downer, and personally know the people involved with these two projects and am rooting for them to no end, but I fail to see the need to create some fake neighborhood in an area of town that has existed since the Cowford days.
That said, the tenant mix they are looking to recruit is pretty well thought out... so their overall strategy is solid (except for the completely unnecessary name). Also find it ironic that a mural is being put up on the existing two-story building, that will ultimately be replaced according to these plans (which very smartly show floor to ceiling windows at ground level).
Quote from: fieldafm on November 16, 2018, 03:18:40 PM
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on November 16, 2018, 02:39:21 PM
"Jones Brothers is in an area of Downtown that potentially has the largest amount of historic building stock that is vacant. We're going to work on rebranding the area as The North End and we want to try and promote this as a catalyst. The Ambassador Hotel was recently acquired. We've been talking with them about this branding effort and we want Jones Brothers to be the centerpiece and hopefully act to bring new development, bring new life and bring retailers and businesses to the area."
This is how it's done ladies and gentlemen.
By trying to 'brand' a three block stretch, in the heart of downtown, into some new neighborhood? Not to be a Debbie Downer, and personally know the people involved with these two projects and am rooting for them to no end, but I fail to see the need to create some fake neighborhood in an area of town that has existed since the Cowford days.
That said, the tenant mix they are looking to recruit is pretty well thought out... so their overall strategy is solid (except for the completely unnecessary name). Also find it ironic that a mural is being put up on the existing two-story building, that will ultimately be replaced according to these plans (which very smartly show floor to ceiling windows at ground level).
Whats the difference between doing this and other areas that are trying to be unique pockets of downtown? The Elbow and the Cathederal district being two that stand out. I could see in the future if commuter trains come back to the prime ozborn that the area around could be rebranded to Railroad row once again.
Quote from: RatTownRyan on November 16, 2018, 04:23:20 PM
Quote from: fieldafm on November 16, 2018, 03:18:40 PM
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on November 16, 2018, 02:39:21 PM
"Jones Brothers is in an area of Downtown that potentially has the largest amount of historic building stock that is vacant. We're going to work on rebranding the area as The North End and we want to try and promote this as a catalyst. The Ambassador Hotel was recently acquired. We've been talking with them about this branding effort and we want Jones Brothers to be the centerpiece and hopefully act to bring new development, bring new life and bring retailers and businesses to the area."
This is how it's done ladies and gentlemen.
By trying to 'brand' a three block stretch, in the heart of downtown, into some new neighborhood? Not to be a Debbie Downer, and personally know the people involved with these two projects and am rooting for them to no end, but I fail to see the need to create some fake neighborhood in an area of town that has existed since the Cowford days.
That said, the tenant mix they are looking to recruit is pretty well thought out... so their overall strategy is solid (except for the completely unnecessary name). Also find it ironic that a mural is being put up on the existing two-story building, that will ultimately be replaced according to these plans (which very smartly show floor to ceiling windows at ground level).
Whats the difference between doing this and other areas that are trying to be unique pockets of downtown? The Elbow and the Cathederal district being two that stand out. I could see in the future if commuter trains come back to the prime ozborn that the area around could be rebranded to Railroad row once again.
It's one thing when it's organic. Both the Elbow and Cathedral District were in use before the marketing pushes that called them that. And the Cathedral District is much bigger than three blocks.
"The North End" decent name but the idea behind it is to give areas of downtown an identity. I don't see how anyone could be against giving areas of downtown nicknames. Every major city has names given to divisions of its CBD. There also the google maps aspect as well.
The Northbank isn't good enough? However, I'm not losing any sleep over it. Recently, someone asked me if I'd ever heard of the Rail Yard District. I was like yeah, that warehouse district (Honeymoon) has been there for well over a century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Jacksonville
Quote from: Tacachale on November 16, 2018, 05:12:16 PM
It's one thing when it's organic. Both the Elbow and Cathedral District were in use before the marketing pushes that called them that. And the Cathedral District is much bigger than three blocks.
I don't know a single person that called it "the elbow" before or after the marketing push. It was always "The Bay Street Bars".
Quote from: Captain Zissou on November 19, 2018, 09:20:29 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on November 16, 2018, 05:12:16 PM
It's one thing when it's organic. Both the Elbow and Cathedral District were in use before the marketing pushes that called them that. And the Cathedral District is much bigger than three blocks.
I don't know a single person that called it "the elbow" before or after the marketing push. It was always "The Bay Street Bars".
I was aware of the phrase well before the marketing push. I believe it started with the website that features (or used to feature) an events calendar in the bars in the area, if not before. Obviously, "The Elbow" is in use now or no one would understand what this thread was even talking about.
"The Elbow" is also memorable. "The North End" could refer to virtually anywhere. In fact, I had to scroll back up to remember what the phrase was.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 17, 2018, 06:32:05 AM
The Northbank isn't good enough? However, I'm not losing any sleep over it. Recently, someone asked me if I'd ever heard of the Rail Yard District. I was like yeah, that warehouse district (Honeymoon) has been there for well over a century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Jacksonville
"Honeymoon" or "Honeymoon Yard" would be a much better name. Though "Rail Yard District" seems to be getting some traction. I was at a wedding reception at the Glass Factory on Saturday, and a number of people recognized the Rail Yard District name. On the other hand, there was also a drunk guy who insisted that it was part of San Marco.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on November 19, 2018, 09:20:29 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on November 16, 2018, 05:12:16 PM
It's one thing when it's organic. Both the Elbow and Cathedral District were in use before the marketing pushes that called them that. And the Cathedral District is much bigger than three blocks.
I don't know a single person that called it "the elbow" before or after the marketing push. It was always "The Bay Street Bars".
The JEDC originally tried to brand the area as E-Town ::)
Quote from: Tacachale on November 19, 2018, 11:15:08 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on November 17, 2018, 06:32:05 AM
The Northbank isn't good enough? However, I'm not losing any sleep over it. Recently, someone asked me if I'd ever heard of the Rail Yard District. I was like yeah, that warehouse district (Honeymoon) has been there for well over a century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Jacksonville
"Honeymoon" or "Honeymoon Yard" would be a much better name. Though "Rail Yard District" seems to be getting some traction. I was at a wedding reception at the Glass Factory on Saturday, and a number of people recognized the Rail Yard District name. On the other hand, there was also a drunk guy who insisted that it was part of San Marco.
Some were concerned about naming the district after a plantation. However, from a historical perspective, they were wrong. Rural Home was the name of the plantation Col. Lucius Hardee owned. It was destroyed during the civil war. During the reconstruction era, he built a new residence with the employment of freedmen. That residence was called Honeymoon. Hardee died in 1885 and Honeymoon burned to the ground in 1886. Flagler acquired much of the tract in the early 1890s to build the Honeymoon railyard to support the operations of his new Jacksonville Terminal Company.
Quote from: Tacachale on November 19, 2018, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on November 19, 2018, 09:20:29 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on November 16, 2018, 05:12:16 PM
It's one thing when it's organic. Both the Elbow and Cathedral District were in use before the marketing pushes that called them that. And the Cathedral District is much bigger than three blocks.
I don't know a single person that called it "the elbow" before or after the marketing push. It was always "The Bay Street Bars".
I was aware of the phrase well before the marketing push. I believe it started with the website that features (or used to feature) an events calendar in the bars in the area, if not before. Obviously, "The Elbow" is in use now or no one would understand what this thread was even talking about.
"The Elbow" is also memorable. "The North End" could refer to virtually anywhere. In fact, I had to scroll back up to remember what the phrase was.
Barely. The group who posts on here is not your average Jaxson. If I told a group of UNF students we are heading to "the Elbow", I think most would look at me funny. They would just call it the Downtown bars or Bay Street.
Nevertheless, the Elbow may have had some organic origins but was pushed by the city unsuccessfully for a 4 block radius. Let them brand their blocks on the northern portion of downtown as whatever they want.
Quote from: FlaBoy on November 19, 2018, 01:13:19 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on November 19, 2018, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on November 19, 2018, 09:20:29 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on November 16, 2018, 05:12:16 PM
It's one thing when it's organic. Both the Elbow and Cathedral District were in use before the marketing pushes that called them that. And the Cathedral District is much bigger than three blocks.
I don't know a single person that called it "the elbow" before or after the marketing push. It was always "The Bay Street Bars".
I was aware of the phrase well before the marketing push. I believe it started with the website that features (or used to feature) an events calendar in the bars in the area, if not before. Obviously, "The Elbow" is in use now or no one would understand what this thread was even talking about.
"The Elbow" is also memorable. "The North End" could refer to virtually anywhere. In fact, I had to scroll back up to remember what the phrase was.
Barely. The group who posts on here is not your average Jaxson. If I told a group of UNF students we are heading to "the Elbow", I think most would look at me funny. They would just call it the Downtown bars or Bay Street.
Nevertheless, the Elbow may have had some organic origins but was pushed by the city unsuccessfully for a 4 block radius. Let them brand their blocks on the northern portion of downtown as whatever they want.
It goes without saying that not everyone will know any name, especially if they're not familiar with the area. Case in point the chad who thought the Rail Yard District was part of San Marco. Regardless, the Elbow is in wider use than "North End" is ever likely to be.