If Walls Could Talk: LaVilla's Genovar's Hall
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/LaVilla-Blues-District-December-2017/i-GKF9fFv/0/6d86714e/L/20180331_184727-L.jpg)
If walls could talk, one can only imagine the significant stories and individuals they'd reveal.
Read More: https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2018-may-if-walls-could-talk-lavillas-genovars-hall
Oh sweet, it's mini-Berkman. "If walls could talk...," they'd say, "enough already, please put us to sleep."
Look, if Jax is ok with this sort of blight and disrepair lingering for 20+ years because it's supposed to be a tribute to black musicians, can the city at least put up a nice monument sign on-site that describes the significance of the location? I'd argue that such blight lasting a generation looks a bit like a middle finger to the history of black musicians in Jax,and the city might be better served tearing down the eyesore, and instead paying tribute to its musical traditions in something structurally sound that actually teaches people, encourages interaction and engagement, and that delivers content.
The city would be better simply RFPing property instead of sitting on it. No need to waste money demoing history. Downtown is full of vacant overgrown lots that have been in that state for 40 years because of sentiment that a vacant lot is better than the blight of a vacant building. Savannah and Charleston are living examples of places with successful restoration of sites that looked just like this for decades before they got themselves together.
The attitude that we should demolish historic structures because they're blight is how we got into this mess in the first place. It's a non-starter now.
Now that the Trio seems primed for rescue, this would be my personal #1 on the list of buildings I'd preserve if I could.
Nothing Stephen ever wrote on this site ever made me feel more wistful for what should be than his commentary on how Genovar's Hall should be a museum and performance venue where tourists flock to buy souvenirs of where Ray Charles first performed publicly and so many other luminaries took the stage.
Here's an area of LaVilla where I believe Jax has been pretty shortsighted. It reminds me of what Beale Street in Memphis was before its turnaround. Like LaVilla, the neighborhood surrounding Beale Street was razed, leaving about three blocks of Beale intact. When the city finally got its act together, those three historic blocks were preserved, cleaned up and reused. Over time, the surrounding razed properties have been redeveloped with complementing infill like the FedEx Forum, Peabody Place and the Westin Memphis Beale Street. They've turned what was left of their LaVilla into a major tourist attraction (5 million visitors annually) and economic generator for their DT.....and the entire thing is based off authentic local history and culture.
If Jax took a similar approach, it would discover it also has a four to six block cluster of old LaVilla buildings, that if combined with complementing infill development, could become a unique setting attracting people to DT Jax as well. Genovars Hall is only one little part of this. Across the street, the Clara White Mission was the old Globe Theatre where Ma Rainey, Ray Charles, Jelly Roll Morton and a host of other famed musicians played. In fact, the union offices for black musicians was located in the building. Then there's the story of Clara White herself. She lived on the third floor and after she died, they turned it into a museum. While not really promoted by this city, you can see the rooms and furniture people like MLK, Jr and Booker T. Washington once slept in. You can also see instruments donated by various musicians. CWM is also the site of where the first doucmented recording of a blues performance on a public stage took place in 1910. Across the street, old Stanton of James Weldon Johnson fame, still stands underutilized. Then at Broad and Beaver, the three story building recently restored by the CWM was originally the Central Hotel. That's where the local Negro League office was located during the Civil Rights Era.
Then there's the block of Broad between Church and Duval. The old Richmond Hotel is where many musicians like Billy Holiday, Cab Calloway and Duke Ellington stayed while in town. One of the storefronts is where Charlie Edd Craddock opened his first nightclub/bar, the Blue Chip, when he came to town in 1926. For those who don't know, Craddock eventually became the man in LaVilla in the 30s, 40s and 50s. He owned most of the clubs and entertainment venues. He also owned the Two Spot in Moncrief and evidently was the bolita man during that era.
Next door, the Masonic Lodge was considered to be one of the best buildings built by blacks in the country when it was completed in 1914. Even today, it remains one of the best examples of prairie school architecture in town. Its storefronts also housed businesses of historical note, including the Anderson Bank, which was the city's first black owned bank.
The block of buildings on Broad and Duval, across from the courthouse also had a variety of interesting businesses and people associated with them.
Simply save and reuse what's left and add complimentary infill on the two vacant blocks between them (one of which is already owned by COJ) and we'll have our own Beale/Sweet Auburn/Gaslamp District, etc. in the making.
This will economically trump isolated proposals like turning Snyder into a civil rights museum. We should consider our history, protect what's left and cluster with complementing infill to create authentic settings and economic opportunities that only Jax can cash in on.
I agree Wacca, I agree. When I lived in Jacksonville, I must've passed by this building hundreds or even thousands of times going to and fro in that area during my younger time while in the Navy. I am well aware though of not only the significance of this building, but also the significance of the entire LaVilla area and Neighborhood; why? Because I grew up there. I was born in Jacksonville in the Mid-50's at Brewster Hospital, was taken to Jasper Florida to be raised by my Grandmothers until age 8, and then my Mom came and got me in 1965 and we lived in the LaVilla Neighborhood, at 817 West Duval Street, one block east of Davis in a two story boarding house; but they were very nice boarding houses back then. From our house you could hear the music and the loud commotion of people talking, laughing, shouting, and just carrying on, y'all know us African Americans, we most times take partying to other levels (and so do others). You could also hear the music blaring from the many bars, taverns, restaurants and live music places on Ashley Street which was the main street and epi-center of the black community in LaVilla in those days. I also remember going to watch the movies every weekend at the Roosevelt Theater which was in the 800 block of Ashley, and my Mom would always send me to the Roosevelt Grille which was attached to the movie theater to get her some soul food, a burger, whatever else was on the menu. Other than the Ritz Theater which was a movie theater back then, there was also the Strand Theater a little bit west of Genovars Hall but a little east of the heart and soul of LaVilla I believe. Now they've built up LaVilla with some industrial, warehouses, and other businesses, I'm mainly talking in the area of Ashley, Duval, and Church Streets in the 600 to 900 blocks which were the heart of LaVilla. I attended, back then, A. L. Lewis Elementary School a little west of I-95 which is no longer there; there are some remains I believe that are still there, at least last time I came through Jacksonville they were still intact. The playground where I used to play is still there, along with the Park across the street from where A. L. Lewis used to be. Now that the heart of LaVilla is no longer African American, the least they could do is put up some monuments or signs near the areas where certain historic structures or other areas of importance or significance for that Neighborhood used to be. But I guess some don't think that is important or significant enough for the City of Jacksonville. Every time I come to Jacksonville, I always go to my old Neighborhood, trying to pin point where our house was, the laundry on the corner of Duval and Davis that my Mom used to go to, the Church I was Baptized in is still there a block east of where we lived on the corner across the street, my old Elementary School which is now defunct and torn down except for some remains, and the entire Ashley Street area and District, which was the heart and soul of LaVilla back in the day, from the 600 block west to the I-95 expressway. That is the heart of LaVilla, and that area, even if skyscrapers or other businesses are built there, should be treated as a historic African American residential, cultural, and music district for that Neighborhood.
An RFP for this place?
I can see how that goes. City says it's worth $250,000.
Bids come in at $25,000.
Sits for 20 more years.
Maybe peel a little bit off stadium upgrades to fix some of these horrible eyesores......
^That's a whole other issue. RFPing property is a common thing across the country. Tying unrealistic up front financial values to surplus property isn't in peer communities successfully seeking to stimulate redevelopment.
Quote from: Tacachale on May 07, 2018, 10:29:08 AM
The attitude that we should demolish historic structures because they're blight is how we got into this mess in the first place. It's a non-starter now.
That's not exactly what my post said and my post has nothing to do with your city's decision to wipe out an entire neighborhood. To an outsider, the lot looks like a trash heap and dump and an example of a cheap city's neglect to look after itself. My post proposed the installation of some sort of monument with a write-up on the site's significance, so that a passerby could consume its historical significance while the lot awaits whatever is planned. Cities with historic districts and landmarks therein do this all the time. Having said that, I personally don't find the structure all that architecturally significant or compelling, and found a site with a rendering of a renovated Genovar's Hall, and yawned...you guys are grasping here. This is no Cowford Chophouse or Laura Street Trio or Barnett Bank Building. But downtown has a litany of needs, so tearing this down isn't priority, and yes, complementary infill between remaining structures is a great idea, but my God, do some sort of clean-up on an interim basis. A couple years back, while in Berlin, I saw a mid-rise building under renovation totally wrapped in some sort of brick-designed industrial fabric, and in many other cases, I saw scaffolding covers or canvases. Jax should get familiar with that approach and at least cover up these embarassments while they await their next chapters.
jaxnyc79.............. SPOT ON!!!!
"To an outsider, the lot looks like a trash heap and dump and an example of a cheap city's neglect to look after itself."
The same could be said for 30% of Downtown.
Lake, I had no idea there was a museum in the Clara White with such historically significant holdings. Thank you for sharing that information.
Heights, thanks for sharing all those LaVilla memories. That was a pleasure to read.
Here's a virtual tour:
http://theclarawhitemission.org/explore/museum/
^ Thank you!
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on May 08, 2018, 08:24:48 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 07, 2018, 10:29:08 AM
The attitude that we should demolish historic structures because they're blight is how we got into this mess in the first place. It's a non-starter now.
That's not exactly what my post said and my post has nothing to do with your city's decision to wipe out an entire neighborhood. To an outsider, the lot looks like a trash heap and dump and an example of a cheap city's neglect to look after itself. My post proposed the installation of some sort of monument with a write-up on the site's significance, so that a passerby could consume its historical significance while the lot awaits whatever is planned. Cities with historic districts and landmarks therein do this all the time. Having said that, I personally don't find the structure all that architecturally significant or compelling, and found a site with a rendering of a renovated Genovar's Hall, and yawned...you guys are grasping here. This is no Cowford Chophouse or Laura Street Trio or Barnett Bank Building. But downtown has a litany of needs, so tearing this down isn't priority, and yes, complementary infill between remaining structures is a great idea, but my God, do some sort of clean-up on an interim basis. A couple years back, while in Berlin, I saw a mid-rise building under renovation totally wrapped in some sort of brick-designed industrial fabric, and in many other cases, I saw scaffolding covers or canvases. Jax should get familiar with that approach and at least cover up these embarassments while they await their next chapters.
A monument could be placed whether the building is demolished or not. It would be more meaningful if the building was there. Destroying it is the same line of thinking that didn't work before. Buildings don't have to be a Cowford Chophouse to be historically significant and worth restoring. The ruins of the slave cabins at Kingsley Plantation are as significant as pretty much any other historical structure and we're definitely better off with them there than if they'd been torn down for being "blight".
Quote from: Tacachale on May 08, 2018, 02:06:23 PM
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on May 08, 2018, 08:24:48 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 07, 2018, 10:29:08 AM
The attitude that we should demolish historic structures because they're blight is how we got into this mess in the first place. It's a non-starter now.
That's not exactly what my post said and my post has nothing to do with your city's decision to wipe out an entire neighborhood. To an outsider, the lot looks like a trash heap and dump and an example of a cheap city's neglect to look after itself. My post proposed the installation of some sort of monument with a write-up on the site's significance, so that a passerby could consume its historical significance while the lot awaits whatever is planned. Cities with historic districts and landmarks therein do this all the time. Having said that, I personally don't find the structure all that architecturally significant or compelling, and found a site with a rendering of a renovated Genovar's Hall, and yawned...you guys are grasping here. This is no Cowford Chophouse or Laura Street Trio or Barnett Bank Building. But downtown has a litany of needs, so tearing this down isn't priority, and yes, complementary infill between remaining structures is a great idea, but my God, do some sort of clean-up on an interim basis. A couple years back, while in Berlin, I saw a mid-rise building under renovation totally wrapped in some sort of brick-designed industrial fabric, and in many other cases, I saw scaffolding covers or canvases. Jax should get familiar with that approach and at least cover up these embarassments while they await their next chapters.
A monument could be placed whether the building is demolished or not. It would be more meaningful if the building was there. Destroying it is the same line of thinking that didn't work before. Buildings don't have to be a Cowford Chophouse to be historically significant and worth restoring. The ruins of the slave cabins at Kingsley Plantation are as significant as pretty much any other historical structure and we're definitely better off with them there than if they'd been torn down for being "blight".
You wish to preserve the shell of Genovar's Hall, even if that means it sits in its current, fully-exposed, fully-dilapidated, and fully disemboweled state for the next 20 years, and I'm indifferent, or at the very least I'd like to see it wrapped up or cosmetically enhanced on an interim basis while it awaits full renovation so that it doesn't just look like some corner of downtown has a trash heap with no description of its historical meaning. So we'll agree to disagree. I'm not advocating it be torn down necessarily, but by God, tidy up Jax. Cosmetics matter. Maybe the city can't find the money to properly renovate, but by God, put some lipstick on the pig in the interim.
Cabins where men were treated as chattel versus a rundown performance hall - 2 different things. Just my perspective.
Kingsley Plantation requires a different lens anyway, because you're talking about preserving old structures out in the boondocks, or 40+ minutes from the central business district, versus what's happening in LaVilla.
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on May 08, 2018, 02:18:50 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 08, 2018, 02:06:23 PM
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on May 08, 2018, 08:24:48 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 07, 2018, 10:29:08 AM
The attitude that we should demolish historic structures because they're blight is how we got into this mess in the first place. It's a non-starter now.
That's not exactly what my post said and my post has nothing to do with your city's decision to wipe out an entire neighborhood. To an outsider, the lot looks like a trash heap and dump and an example of a cheap city's neglect to look after itself. My post proposed the installation of some sort of monument with a write-up on the site's significance, so that a passerby could consume its historical significance while the lot awaits whatever is planned. Cities with historic districts and landmarks therein do this all the time. Having said that, I personally don't find the structure all that architecturally significant or compelling, and found a site with a rendering of a renovated Genovar's Hall, and yawned...you guys are grasping here. This is no Cowford Chophouse or Laura Street Trio or Barnett Bank Building. But downtown has a litany of needs, so tearing this down isn't priority, and yes, complementary infill between remaining structures is a great idea, but my God, do some sort of clean-up on an interim basis. A couple years back, while in Berlin, I saw a mid-rise building under renovation totally wrapped in some sort of brick-designed industrial fabric, and in many other cases, I saw scaffolding covers or canvases. Jax should get familiar with that approach and at least cover up these embarassments while they await their next chapters.
A monument could be placed whether the building is demolished or not. It would be more meaningful if the building was there. Destroying it is the same line of thinking that didn't work before. Buildings don't have to be a Cowford Chophouse to be historically significant and worth restoring. The ruins of the slave cabins at Kingsley Plantation are as significant as pretty much any other historical structure and we're definitely better off with them there than if they'd been torn down for being "blight".
You wish to preserve the shell of Genovar's Hall, even if that means it sits in its current, fully-exposed, fully-dilapidated, and fully disemboweled state for the next 20 years, and I'm indifferent, or at the very least I'd like to see it wrapped up or cosmetically enhanced on an interim basis while it awaits full renovation so that it doesn't just look like some corner of downtown has a trash heap with no description of its historical meaning. So we'll agree to disagree. I'm not advocating it be torn down necessarily, but by God, tidy up Jax. Cosmetics matter. Maybe the city can't find the money to properly renovate, but by God, put some lipstick on the pig in the interim.
Cabins where men were treated as chattel versus a rundown performance hall - 2 different things. Just my perspective.
Kingsley Plantation requires a different lens anyway, because you're talking about preserving old structures out in the boondocks, or 40+ minutes from the central business district, versus what's happening in LaVilla.
The issue is that tearing it down won't make it look any nicer or make the area any more vibrant. It would just turn the space into another vacant lot, or at most a monument in a vacant lot. One thing it would do is preclude the possibility of ever restoring it. Even if it was a really nice monument or museum or whatever, why spend the money to tear the building down and then erect a new one, rather than just restoring the actual building?
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on May 08, 2018, 09:19:18 AM
Lake, I had no idea there was a museum in the Clara White with such historically significant holdings. Thank you for sharing that information.
Heights, thanks for sharing all those LaVilla memories. That was a pleasure to read.
Thanks Wacca; my pleasure. I had always wished that community had remained a vibrant neighborhood, whatever ethnicity it hosted. Now there is no identity there, and no evidence, if very little of its history. I think different monuments, signs, etc., iterating historic places, events, and people in LaVilla would preserve its historic aspect.
Clara White Mission wants to put tiny homes on this block:
QuoteThe Clara White Mission plans to build a village of tiny houses in LaVilla Downtown for homeless veterans and transform the historic Genovar's Hall into a community center.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/clara-white-mission-plans-village-of-tiny-houses-in-lavilla
Quote from: thelakelander on October 17, 2018, 10:54:42 AM
Clara White Mission wants to put tiny homes on this block:
QuoteThe Clara White Mission plans to build a village of tiny houses in LaVilla Downtown for homeless veterans and transform the historic Genovar's Hall into a community center.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/clara-white-mission-plans-village-of-tiny-houses-in-lavilla
Oh man, tiny houses are a really cool idea there. Don't love that use for Genovar's Hall, at least until there's an actual community that could use a community center.
Excited that the three shotguns would be restored in this plan.
It's nice to see someone finally look into doing something with the entire block. However, I do have a couple of concerns...or at least things I think should be considered by Clara White, the design team and COJ/DIA.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/History/Jacksonville-Sanborn-Maps/i-jth622q/0/c69cd6bb/X2/IMAG0049-X2.jpg)
Regardless of new development use, one thing that should be consistent in the redevelopment of properties in LaVilla should be the placement of new structures in a manner that is consistent with the historic pedestrian friendly pattern the neighborhood once had. With that said:
1. Tiny homes should be built with setbacks similar to the old shotgun row houses that lined LaVilla's streets. In particular, for this block, the houses would be most appropriate lining Church Street with limited front and side setbacks (as illustrated in the map above). The worse thing that could happen is for a self contained, fenced in facility that turns the front facades of the new buildings away from the streets. That would create (or preserve) another dead block of limited pedestrian activity within the heart of the city and would be a complete underutilization of a critical LaVilla redevelopment site.
2. Tiny house facades should pay homage to the scale and design of LaVilla's shotgun architecture as opposed to the model being shown in local media. With the Richmond Hotel, Clara White Mission, Genovar's Hall, the Masonic Lodge, old Stanton, etc., this is the one area of LaVilla where appropriate infill can contribute to modern revitalization while preserving LaVilla's historical sense of place. One way to do this is architecture that pays homage to LaVilla's style and not mass produced tiny home architecture facade features that could be placed anywhere.
Tiny house model in paper:
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/203029_standard.jpeg)
Examples of authentic "tiny home" residential architectural detailing in LaVilla and the Eastside...
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/af/31/ef/af31ef2376e9d3cbb13d221319785817.jpg)
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Eastside/i-4c6rH6v/0/3b4a90bc/L/20170714_145249-L.jpg)
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Eastside/i-rMqV73q/0/598fb0ee/L/20170715_124806-L.jpg)
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Eastside/i-wvpP976/0/76ad92b9/L/20170715_123917-L.jpg)
The last image captures 336 square foot shotguns still standing in the Eastside. Some of the proposed tiny houses will be larger. Front porch design, roof pitch, floor elevation, front and side building setbacks are important features that can make this development look nice, while paying homage to the neighborhood's history or looking cheap and out of place.
3. Broad Street - At this point, I believe tiny homes are an inappropriate use for the block's Broad Street frontage. Broad Street is a commercial street more appropriate for larger commercial or mixed use structures. Something more on the scale of the Richmond or Clara White Mission building itself, should face Broad. This centralized block (listed as Hotel Washington on the sanborn map above) is the most critical piece to restoring what's left of LaVilla's business district along Broad between Monroe and Union Streets. Tiny homes significantly hurt that from happening. With this in mind, I'd recommend excluding the east 1/3 of the block from the tiny house plan.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/LaVilla-Blues-District-December-2017/i-hmdkw6P/0/87c853a3/L/20171202_121419-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/LaVilla-Blues-District-December-2017/i-tM25w4w/0/b8b735db/L/20171202_123703-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/LaVilla-Blues-District-December-2017/i-Zdq9fhQ/0/0373c53e/L/20171202_124140-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/LaVilla-Blues-District-December-2017/i-mnfkTFX/0/cceb9c4e/L/20171202_122539-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/LaVilla-Blues-District-December-2017/i-k7MtLQD/0/7f315504/L/20171202_145951-L.jpg)
Looking at the images above, this stretch of Broad Street has enough buildings and storefronts remaining that it could be a place that's every bit as vibrant as a Beale Street in Memphis. The one block between all these existing historic jazz/blues era buildings is the one now being proposed for tiny houses. It would be more appropriate to have something the scale of a Vesctor LaVilla project placed on the side facing Broad Street. Without a doubt, we know there's a market for what they're doing, so perhaps this project can be shaped to allow for something more appropriate for a corridor like Broad on the east side?
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/UCU090118/i-mvJvmQk/0/11290395/L/20180901_122140-L.jpg)