http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180319/city-poised-to-help-restore-endangered-jones-bros-furniture-building
More residents and another historic rehab.
^Epic first post.
Amazing news, and another incredibly positive development for the downtown core.
We're really starting to see a bit of momentum.
Didn't realize the Downtown Historic Preservation and Revitalization Trust Fund still had $1.5 million left in it after the Trio.
Actually, I don't think it does, unless they quietly replenished it.
Looong time lurker. :) hopefully they structure the 1.5 mil in a similar fashion as the Barnett restoration.
Welcome friend!
Way to pick your spot ;)
Is ongoing maintenance of historic building renovations pretty much the same as new construction? I know the incentives help to get this off the ground, but do the buildings maintain the integrity of the renovations for a long while afterwards? How have The Carling and 11E done? Occupancy rates still high and people enjoy the buildings? Reading reviews of 11E on Facebook and ratings appear to be all over the place.
As far as I know, the Carling and 11 East still stay full. Keeping residential buildings in downtown Jacksonville has not been a problem for restorations or new infill. The major problem has been the cost of construction or restoration in relation to the what the local market will pay for leasing or buying the finished product. This is where the incentives help balance things out.
I don't think really any downtown residential building has trouble with occupancy once they open. The issue I've heard is that people wouldn't pay the level of rent it would take to make the buildings a profitable investment. That's true of either new or remodeled buildings (there have never been many residences in downtown Jax since the Great Fire, so the rehabs are typically not residential buildings). And so most that has have come together have required incentives of some sort to make it work.
Hionides? good luck unless the city is going to bankroll the entire cost
If they could somehow convince first Baptist to give up that ugly windowless building next to the Jones Bros building, that'd be the perfect spot for a ground floor retail with parking on top.
Also, if the old Federal reserve building next to Sweet Pete's ever gets redeveloped you'd have a whole, uninterrupted, row of restored buildings facing Hogan.
So this does include the old Farah's Deli building?
It includes the jones brothers and old farah's deli building.
Quote from: jaxjaguar on March 20, 2018, 08:28:48 AM
If they could somehow convince first Baptist to give up that ugly windowless building next to the Jones Bros building, that'd be the perfect spot for a ground floor retail with parking on top.
Also, if the old Federal reserve building next to Sweet Pete's ever gets redeveloped you'd have a whole, uninterrupted, row of restored buildings facing Hogan.
When walking around, I've noticed a handful of largely windowless buildings downtown, most notably the JEA Customer Care building.
Any idea what thought process went into designing buildings like this? Was it a short-lived design style? A cost-saving mechanism?
Seems like it'd be a horrible working environment, and also a death-trap in the event of a fire on the lower floors.
^ The JEA building used to have windows when it was Ivey's department store. I don't know if bricking over the windows was an attempt to save costs or just eliminate distractions in a call center environment.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on March 20, 2018, 10:44:19 AM
^ The JEA building used to have windows when it was Ivey's department store. I don't know if bricking over the windows was an attempt to save costs or just eliminate distractions in a call center environment.
Thanks for the info!
Had no idea the building used to be a department store.
Wow! I definitely need to start rerunning archived articles:
https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-sep-on-top-of-the-universal-marion-building
Quote from: bill on March 20, 2018, 12:32:08 AM
Hionides? good luck unless the city is going to bankroll the entire cost
Found this interesting:
QuoteThe "developer/agent" identified in Downtown Investment Authority documents is Ace Jax LLC, which shares the Atlantic Beach address of Petra Management, a real estate brokerage firm. Elias Hionides, an executive with Petra, has said in the past the company was working with potential partners to redevelop the building.
Tried to find out who Ace Jac LLC is owned by but could not find anything on Google so far (not that having "Ace" in the name makes this easier) Anyone know ?
Could it be possible that the rather high asking price the building was offered for was just on paper (i.e. changed from the left hand to the right one) ?
In all, he's not getting a bad deal - free (well, for one $) city property that is definitely needed, a low interest long term loan and other incentives for a total of 2,4 Million.
I am also curious how much of the 11.1 Million renovation cost is for planning, consulting and similar.
Quote from: Gunnar on March 20, 2018, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: bill on March 20, 2018, 12:32:08 AM
Hionides? good luck unless the city is going to bankroll the entire cost
Found this interesting:
QuoteThe "developer/agent" identified in Downtown Investment Authority documents is Ace Jax LLC, which shares the Atlantic Beach address of Petra Management, a real estate brokerage firm. Elias Hionides, an executive with Petra, has said in the past the company was working with potential partners to redevelop the building.
Tried to find out who Ace Jac LLC is owned by but could not find anything on Google so far (not that having "Ace" in the name makes this easier) Anyone know ?
Could it be possible that the rather high asking price the building was offered for was just on paper (i.e. changed from the left hand to the right one) ?
In all, he's not getting a bad deal - free (well, for one $) city property that is definitely needed, a low interest long term loan and other incentives for a total of 2,4 Million.
I am also curious how much of the 11.1 Million renovation cost is for planning, consulting and similar.
Virtually all of the empty buildings on Hogan are under contract/recently sold.
To be clear on the building in question- the City had a development agreement in place on this property many years ago (in addition to historic grants, it also included a land swap for parking), which expired. The DA is being updated due to the possibility of a new buyer for the property.... just as an expired development agreement is going through the legislative process on Sisters City Plaza a few blocks away.
Over the past fifteen years several proposals have been in place on this particular piece of property from various local investment groups. It's been empty for more than 30 years. I wouldn't hold your breath on something happening on this parcel so late in the real estate cycle, given the need for historic tax credit financing.
Here's a look inside:
https://www.moderncities.com/article/2017-jan-abandoned-florida-the-jones-brothers-furniture-company/page/
Did Historic rehab tax credits survive in the new tax bill? I know they were originally being eliminated initially but there was an effort to keep them. I never heard if that was successful or not.
Don't get me wrong - love the building and would be happy to see it renovated, but the whole set-up sounded weird to me (developer shares the address with the realtor) and I found the asking price too high from the start.
While any historic building that is rehabbed in dt Jax makes me happy, I really would not like seeing tax payer money spent on paying the owner's inflated asking.
One way to alleviate this would be that the city's grants would be reduced by the amount spend over the building's assessed value - so let's say the property is worth $ 400k but a developer bought it for $900k, city grants would be reduced by $500k.
Quotebut the whole set-up sounded weird to me (developer shares the address with the realtor)
Chris Hionides owns the building, and his real estate brokerage (Petra Management) markets his various property holdings for sale or lease. That's not an uncommon situation, nor is it uncommon for each building to be owned by a different LLC. It's also not uncommon for a company like Petra to rezone the property and get a development agreement in place (for a fee) on behalf of their buyer, before a potential transaction.
QuoteI found the asking price too high from the start
Welcome to the business of real estate :)
QuoteWhile any historic building that is rehabbed in dt Jax makes me happy, I really would not like seeing tax payer money spent on paying the owner's inflated asking.
Any public assistance (and public assistance would be required to restore this buildings) would not be used to purchase the building.. only as part of a multi-tiered structure to pay for the rehabilitation of the property after a buyer purchases it.
QuoteDid Historic rehab tax credits survive in the new tax bill?
Yes.
Quote from: fieldafm on March 21, 2018, 07:30:23 AM
Quotebut the whole set-up sounded weird to me (developer shares the address with the realtor)
Chris Hionides owns the building, and his real estate brokerage (Petra Management) markets his various property holdings for sale or lease. That's not an uncommon situation, nor is it uncommon for each building to be owned by a different LLC. It's also not uncommon for a company like Petra to rezone the property and get a development agreement in place (for a fee) on behalf of their buyer, before a potential transaction.
What I found odd - maybe that is normal though - is that the owner, realtor and developer all appear to be the same, just under a different name. So in addition to Hionides (owner), Petra (real estate brokerage) you also have Ace Jax LLC (developer / agent). I would guess that Ace LLC is also owned bz Hionides ?
As for the development funds not going towards the purchase price: Well, they do make overpaying for the property easier or the other way around if the building was sold for less, then the total cost would go down and the City would need to give less support to make the develoment commercially viable.
Are you sure that the incentives are not based on total cost (i.e. purchase price + restoration costs + any other costs) ? That is how the owner should calculate.
DIA voted 7-2 yesterday in favor of the $2.25 million in incentives requested for the project.
The retail component would consist of two restaurants.
Was there a time limit on the incentives? In their words, if the project doesn't break ground in ___ months, do the incentives vanish?
Quote from: Steve on March 22, 2018, 11:37:51 AM
Was there a time limit on the incentives? In their words, if the project doesn't break ground in ___ months, do the incentives vanish?
Haven't seen any timelines attached, just that the incentives won't be paid out until the building is fully cleared for occupancy.
Quote from: KenFSU on March 22, 2018, 11:45:33 AM
Quote from: Steve on March 22, 2018, 11:37:51 AM
Was there a time limit on the incentives? In their words, if the project doesn't break ground in ___ months, do the incentives vanish?
Haven't seen any timelines attached, just that the incentives won't be paid out until the building is fully cleared for occupancy.
That works....doesn't tie them to any deadlines but the DIA isn't out the money until the project is complete. That's fair.
My friend who was at the DIA meeting says 99% of the public comments toward the developer were negative.
Anyone else in attendance?
So if that's true "MusicMan," and I'll bet it is, then why is the DIA, I guess, even considering giving the developer a chance with ANY types of funds? If the track record is poor or not there, common sense says to not waste your time with the entity, company or developer.
^See Field's response to Gunnar for the answer.
Cause he owns the building and nothing will happen without some COJ assistance?