Not sure why this isn't being discussed more but there have been 16 deaths by Florida East Coast trains in the last year. There have been 20 train deaths by Florida East Coast trains since 2016. Three of these deaths have been by the new Brightline train that have only been operation for a few months and a woman was killed by a Brightline train on the inaugural run.
Once the Brightline train is running all the way to Orlando expect those numbers to jump. Folks are outraged over mass shootings at schools. Why isn't there outrage when a private company is running over people with high speed trains?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/01/16/florida-railway-corridor-deaths/1038618001/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/01/16/florida-railway-corridor-deaths/1038618001/)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/p0RDMJGgMXF96/giphy.gif)
Quote from: FloridaBoy on February 26, 2018, 11:05:33 AM
Folks are outraged over mass shootings at schools. Why isn't there outrage when a private company is running over people with high speed trains?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/01/16/florida-railway-corridor-deaths/1038618001/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/01/16/florida-railway-corridor-deaths/1038618001/)
To answer your question, it's probably because in the case of school shootings, the victims are blameless. In the case of the Brightline deaths, the victims are likely at fault.
That's not to say the TOC or railway or whatever they call it doesn't share some responsibility. I don't really know the answer to that. But people (rightly) get more outraged by mass murder than they do accidents.
So a train going through a commercial and residential section of town, travelling at 110 MPH, makes sense? Streets right next to these tracks have speed limits of 35 MPH in many cases. This isn't rural pasture land we are talking about. These trains are going through downtowns, the pedestrian hearts of these cities. Imagine a 110 MPH train going through Riverside or downtown Jacksonville...
Innocent children gunned down in a classroom.
Irresponsible, impatient adults hit by trains after driving or biking around safety gates with gigantic flashing signs begging them to stop.
Same difference.
Quote from: FloridaBoy on February 26, 2018, 11:22:29 AM
So a train going through a commercial and residential section of town, travelling at 110 MPH, makes sense? Streets right next to these tracks have speed limits of 35 MPH in many cases. This isn't rural pasture land we are talking about. These trains are going through downtowns, the pedestrian hearts of these cities. Imagine a 110 MPH train going through Riverside or downtown Jacksonville...
I don't have to imagine it - I've seen it with my own eyes.
Edit: and by that, I mean I've seen a high speed train travel through congested area. Obvs not DT Jax or Riverside.
QuoteIrresponsible, impatient adults hit by trains after driving or biking around safety gates with gigantic flashing signs begging them to stop.
Who is more impatient? The train travelling 110 MPH or the hapless pedestrian crossing a neighborhood street to get to work?
Quote from: FloridaBoy on February 26, 2018, 11:36:26 AM
QuoteIrresponsible, impatient adults hit by trains after driving or biking around safety gates with gigantic flashing signs begging them to stop.
Who is more impatient? The train travelling 110 MPH or the hapless pedestrian crossing a neighborhood street to get to work?
Trains are inanimate objects - they can't be 'impatient'.
Quote from: FloridaBoy on February 26, 2018, 11:22:29 AM
So a train going through a commercial and residential section of town, travelling at 110 MPH, makes sense? Streets right next to these tracks have speed limits of 35 MPH in many cases. This isn't rural pasture land we are talking about. These trains are going through downtowns, the pedestrian hearts of these cities. Imagine a 110 MPH train going through Riverside or downtown Jacksonville...
Brightline trains don't travel anywhere close to 110 mph in South Florida. Heck, I doubt they even get up to 80 mph. I see the point you're trying to make but your stats paint a false narrative. The ultimate answer is to not attempt to beat trains across the tracks. Unfortunately, you can't dummy proof everything in life.
Quote from: FloridaBoy on February 26, 2018, 11:36:26 AM
QuoteIrresponsible, impatient adults hit by trains after driving or biking around safety gates with gigantic flashing signs begging them to stop.
Who is more impatient? The train travelling 110 MPH or the hapless pedestrian crossing a neighborhood street to get to work?
From your own article...
QuoteOn Wednesday, Linda Short, 73, of Berea, Ohio, was killed at 7:40 p.m. ET after driving her car onto the Florida East Coast tracks in Delray Beach and into the path of an oncoming freight train, according to Delray Beach police.
Two days later, Melissa Lavell, 32, was killed after apparently trying to beat an oncoming Brightline passenger train in Boynton Beach, according to police.
"After speaking with witnesses, it appears that Lavell was crossing the tracks after the guard rails were in the down position in an attempt to make it across before the train approached," police said in a statement posted online.
I was reading an article about the Brightline deaths and one thing they suggested was people either don't realize how fast the Brightline trains are going (maybe not 110 mph but still faster than most trains) and/or they can't judge how much time they actually have to cross the tracks (spoiler alert: the answer is less than they thought).
QuoteBrightline trains don't travel anywhere close to 110 mph in South Florida. Heck, I doubt they even get up to 80 mph. I see the point you're trying to make but your stats paint a false narrative. The ultimate answer is to not attempt to beat trains across the tracks. Unfortunately, you can't dummy proof everything in life.
They go 79 MPH in South Florida. The plan is to go 110 MPH once the train leaves West Palm to Cocoa and then 125 MPH from Cocoa to Orlando.
At some point there's going to be a tractor trailer stuck on the tracks. At 79 MPH a train can not stop quickly, let alone one going at 110 MPH or 125 MPH. At that point everyone riding the train is at risk of injury or death. Do we blame the passengers for riding the train?
Tri-Rail and Amtrak also travel up to 79 mph in South Florida and have been doing so for decades. I'm not sure what you want Brightline and FEC to do. You squeeze between the gates to get around a train and get hit, you're likely to die regardless of it traveling at 60 or 79 miles per hour. At some point, personal responsibility needs to play a role.
By the way, the truck stuck on tracks accident has happened before. An Amtrak train hit a gasoline tanker in South Florida back in the early 1990s.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1993/03/18/6-are-killed-when-train-gasoline-tanker-truck-crash-at-crossing/359ebbbd-d971-4408-9e68-bce291bf2fdf/
Quote from: FloridaBoy on February 26, 2018, 12:22:31 PM
QuoteBrightline trains don't travel anywhere close to 110 mph in South Florida. Heck, I doubt they even get up to 80 mph. I see the point you're trying to make but your stats paint a false narrative. The ultimate answer is to not attempt to beat trains across the tracks. Unfortunately, you can't dummy proof everything in life.
They go 79 MPH in South Florida. The plan is to go 110 MPH once the train leaves West Palm to Cocoa and then 125 MPH from Cocoa to Orlando.
At some point there's going to be a tractor trailer stuck on the tracks. At 79 MPH a train can not stop quickly, let alone one going at 110 MPH or 125 MPH. At that point everyone riding the train is at risk of injury or death. Do we blame the passengers for riding the train?
These small passenger trains still out-brake loaded freight trains by orders of magnitude.
QuoteTri-Rail and Amtrak also travel up to 79 mph in South Florida and have been doing so for decades.
Amtrak isn't a poster boy for safety. There's been many fatalities and hundreds of injuries in the last few months involving their trains.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/recent-amtrak-derailments/story?id=51882064 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/recent-amtrak-derailments/story?id=51882064)
What do you believe the rail company should do to stop people from breaking the law?
Quote from: thelakelander on February 26, 2018, 01:00:21 PM
What do you believe the rail company should do to stop people from breaking the law?
We should either ban these assault trains or arm everyone with a train to level the playing field.
QuoteWhat do you believe the rail company should do to stop people from breaking the law?
By breaking the law are you referring to a conductor driving a train faster than the track speed limit into a corner, causing a derailment? Or just plain negligence in driving a train into a dump truck without attempting to stop?
Quote"It was a very high-speed collision," U.S. Rep. Jeff Denham, R-Calif., who was on board, told Fox News. "There was no braking that was felt. We hit an immediate impact and went from 70 to zero very quickly."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/31/train-carrying-lawmakers-to-gop-retreat-involved-in-accident.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/31/train-carrying-lawmakers-to-gop-retreat-involved-in-accident.html)
You do know that trains don't immediately stop when they brake. In the Amtrak accident, the engineer hit the breaks and ran into the engine compartment to protect himself knowing it would still hit the gasoline tanker sitting on the tracks. That train was running at 35mph.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 26, 2018, 12:44:06 PM
I'm not sure what you want Brightline and FEC to do. You squeeze between the gates to get around a train and get hit, you're likely to die regardless of it traveling at 60 or 79 miles per hour. At some point, personal responsibility needs to play a role.
(https://snag.gy/YvV2QR.jpg)
Trolling, Trolling, Trolling, keep them doggies Trolling!!! AldermanparkLover is that you?
Quote from: thelakelander on February 26, 2018, 01:48:20 PM
You do know that trains don't immediately stop when they brake. In the Amtrak accident, the engineer hit the breaks and ran into the engine compartment to protect himself knowing it would still hit the gasoline tanker sitting on the tracks. That train was running at 35mph.
That gasoline tanker incident was a different train wreck. I was referring to the dump truck train wreck two months ago in Virginia involving members of congress. The conductor made no attempt to stop, 1 person died and a bunch of folks were banged up.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/31/train-carrying-lawmakers-to-gop-retreat-involved-in-accident.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/31/train-carrying-lawmakers-to-gop-retreat-involved-in-accident.html)
Could have hit the breaks and they still would have been hit if they were on the tracks. The safest solution is to stay off the tracks. What else do you believe should be done to enhance safety?
Hey, while your at this nonsense, why don't you ask what P&G is going to do about their unsafe Tide Pods? I mean, seriously. You obviously have nothing better to do today, so let's add to the discussion.
QuoteCould have hit the breaks and they still would have been hit if they were on the tracks. The safest solution is to stay off the tracks. What else do you believe should be done to enhance safety?
Obviously, staying off the tracks, as a passenger, conductor, or a pedestrian walking through their neighborhood, is the best way to avoid a train wreck. As a matter of public safety no concern is given to the communities that have these high speed trains going through them. The existing tracks are a legacy of an earlier era before airplanes and highways. These tracks go through heavily populated areas with much pedestrian foot traffic. It's disingenuous to just say, "stay off the tracks", when these rail lines go through heavily trafficked areas and the current safety record of trains is dubious.
Scene from Delray Beach where the Brightline goes through:
(http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/rf/image_medium/Pub/p9/MyPalmBeachPost/2018/02/03/Images/newsEngin.21123034_20180130_BRB_Brightline_Non_Drivers_07.jpg)
Looks like a nice scene to me...
How will 32 trains (freight and high speed passenger) a day in this situation not be a disaster waiting to happen?
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but it's almost like you don't understand how railroad crossings work.
A smart person would not ignore those lights, bells, and physical obstructions in that picture all warning you to stay off the tracks....
How much safer are automobiles? Yeah...guess we should just ban those too... ::)
Excellent picture of Atlantic Avenue in Delray. It shows crossing gates, cantilever signals and signage warning drivers not to stop on the tracks.
So you're saying because of the big bad social-engineering communists of the Florida legislature using their unconstitutional wielding of power to finance and order railroads to start shipping people that the state's rails are now these constant deathtraps? That if only Brightline were scrapped there wouldn't be the needless deaths of dozens?
As you, say if there should be more "outrage" over theses high-speed death trains, what's your damn solution? Specifically what are we to do with the over 100 million tons of cargo currentlyshipped through Florida train lines? Start shipping over half of it through tractor trailers clogging up the roads fucking up the highways going through residential neighborhoods potentially carrying hazardous materials? I guess we shouldn't sweat that since by your logic taking all that shit off our rails and into trucks running alongside mixed traffic would only amount to 16 accidents a year.
If you keep this kind of angry illogical solution-less rambling up FloridaBoy, then very soon you shall be a FloridaMan!
There are now going to be 60 quad gates installed in Palm Beach and Broward due to the people that could not properly follow directions. Quad gates touch in the middle and are much more difficult to maneuver through to illegally cross.
QuoteSpecifically what are we to do with the over 100 million tons of cargo currentlyshipped through Florida train lines?
Shouldn't the cargo ships go to Jax and then get sent out on trains, especially if the cargo is going to wind up going through Jax anyhow? Jax is much more of a train hub than Miami. Even Tampa makes more sense for goods coming through the Panama canal, especially for goods heading out of the state.
The fact is that nice walkable communities are going to be cut in half, there will be fatalities by jay walkers and train crossings that are broken, first responders will wait for trains while houses burn and stroke victims die, and property values along the tracks will decline due to excessive train noise. The only winners here are the Florida East Coast corporation and the egos of the five railroad enthusiasts in the state.
The railroad was there first, it called dibs.
Quote from: FloridaBoy on February 26, 2018, 05:28:37 PM
QuoteSpecifically what are we to do with the over 100 million tons of cargo currentlyshipped through Florida train lines?
Shouldn't the cargo ships go to Jax and then get sent out on trains, especially if the cargo is going to wind up going through Jax anyhow? Jax is much more of a train hub than Miami. Even Tampa makes more sense for goods coming through the Panama canal, especially for goods heading out of the state.
The fact is that nice walkable communities are going to be cut in half, there will be fatalities by jay walkers and train crossings that are broken, first responders will wait for trains while houses burn and stroke victims die, and property values along the tracks will decline due to excessive train noise. The only winners here are the Florida East Coast corporation and the egos of the five railroad enthusiasts in the state.
You do know that most of Florida's cargo, by rail or boat, doesn't come through Jax right?
Quote from: thelakelander on February 26, 2018, 08:39:56 PMYou do know that most of Florida's cargo, by rail or boat, doesn't come through Jax right?
Wouldn't all traffic by rail in or out of the state have to pass through?
Quote from: FloridaBoy on February 26, 2018, 05:28:37 PMThe fact is that nice walkable communities are going to be cut in half, there will be fatalities by jay walkers and train crossings that are broken, first responders will wait for trains while houses burn and stroke victims die, and property values along the tracks will decline due to excessive train noise. The only winners here are the Florida East Coast corporation and the egos of the five railroad enthusiasts in the state.
The Brightline trains are short and, as you point out, move fast. I'm willing to bet the time between gates-down and gates-up at most crossings is less than a minute, certainly less time than the mile-long freight trains that currently pass through Broward and Palm Beach Counties, and less time than the intracoastal drawbridges that seem to be up 1/3 of the day during snowbird season.
Sonic101 also raises a good point: most of those walkable South Florida communities would not exist but for Henry Flagler's railroad.
Quote from: Traveller on February 27, 2018, 02:39:56 PM
Quote from: FloridaBoy on February 26, 2018, 05:28:37 PMThe fact is that nice walkable communities are going to be cut in half, there will be fatalities by jay walkers and train crossings that are broken, first responders will wait for trains while houses burn and stroke victims die, and property values along the tracks will decline due to excessive train noise. The only winners here are the Florida East Coast corporation and the egos of the five railroad enthusiasts in the state.
The Brightline trains are short and, as you point out, move fast. I'm willing to bet the time between gates-down and gates-up at most crossings is less than a minute, certainly less time than the mile-long freight trains that currently pass through Broward and Palm Beach Counties, and less time than the intracoastal drawbridges that seem to be up 1/3 of the day during snowbird season.
Sonic101 also raises a good point: most of those walkable South Florida communities would not exist but for Henry Flagler's railroad.
45 Seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwIFic35BQc
whoa...??? 45 seconds?? Certainly worth risking death by going around the barriers...
Quote from: acme54321 on February 27, 2018, 02:24:43 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on February 26, 2018, 08:39:56 PMYou do know that most of Florida's cargo, by rail or boat, doesn't come through Jax right?
Wouldn't all traffic by rail in or out of the state have to pass through?
South Florida is home to more than 6 million residents. Most products being shipped in and out of their ports are destined for South Florida or produced and shipped out of there. In a similar fashion, most of the phosphate unit trains in Bone Valley head to ships in Tampa for shipment overseas. They don't come north through Jax.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 27, 2018, 03:01:47 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on February 27, 2018, 02:24:43 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on February 26, 2018, 08:39:56 PMYou do know that most of Florida's cargo, by rail or boat, doesn't come through Jax right?
Wouldn't all traffic by rail in or out of the state have to pass through?
South Florida is home to more than 6 million residents. Most products being shipped in and out of their ports are destined for South Florida or produced and shipped out of there. In a similar fashion, most of the phosphate unit trains in Bone Valley head to ships in Tampa for shipment overseas. They don't come north through Jax.
So Florida East Coast Railway is spending (borrowing) billions to take a few folks from Miami to Orlando every day? The train in the YouTube video looked about as big as the Skyway train. If freight isn't involved then it seems like a stupid plan. If anyone wants to get from Miami to Orlando fast they'll fly. It's about an hour flight and costs $47 on Delta.
Basically we are pissing off and killing a bunch of folks, lending billions, and getting nothing in return. This is equivalent to starting a war somewhere, except it's in our state.
lol, yeah they're about the same size and ride...
Brightline
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Transportation/Miscellaneous-Transit/i-zKGZsBs/0/6079a00e/L/bri5-L.jpg)
Skyway
(http://www.jacksonville.com/storyimage/LK/20151210/NEWS/801258783/AR/0/AR-801258783.jpg)
The cheapest non-stop tomorrow between MCO and MIA will run you closer to $140 roundtrip....if you fly out at 7:10am. All bets are off if you want to leave at 11, 1 or 3 pm, etc. Then there's the hidden costs of airport parking, shuttle services, time lost getting through security, boarding, etc. The numbers change if your destination is WPB or FTL.
I know you're trolling at this point, but the more mobility options available to the population, the better.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 27, 2018, 06:44:24 PM
lol, yeah they're about the same size and ride...
Brightline
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Transportation/Miscellaneous-Transit/i-zKGZsBs/0/6079a00e/L/bri5-L.jpg)
Skyway
(http://www.jacksonville.com/storyimage/LK/20151210/NEWS/801258783/AR/0/AR-801258783.jpg)
The cheapest non-stop tomorrow between MCO and MIA will run you closer to $140 roundtrip....if you fly out at 7:10am. All bets are off if you want to leave at 11, 1 or 3 pm, etc. Then there's the hidden costs of airport parking, shuttle services, time lost getting through security, boarding, etc. The numbers change if your destination is WPB or FTL.
I know you're trolling at this point, but the more mobility options available to the population, the better.
There's no trolling. I searched on Travelocity just now. The ticket is still $47 on Delta, non-stop one way for 2/28, that's tomorrow. Either MCO to MIA or MIA to MCO.
Does anyone here supporting the Brightline work for Florida East Coast Railway or CSX? It seems that there's alot of folks here that are blindly supporting Brightline with the same fervor as a lobbyist or paid supporter.
You have to get back, so your number would be roundtrip. Unless you want your day held hostage to flight times, the frequency of trains would be favorable also. Then there's the fact that what if your trip is Orlando to Fort Lauderdale or West Palm to Miami? Trains and planes aren't apples to apples comparisons. They both have their pros and cons, depending on a variety of factors. With that said, there's no reason Brightline should not be allowed to operate on tracks it co-owns. It's really silly to think otherwise. Intercity rail has been around for well over a century.
I would love to take a train from Jax to MCO or MIA. International flights are much easier/cheaper out of MCO & MIA and I could get a lot of work done on the train without the spotty gogo service that I get on planes.
Ennis, are you really still entertaining this guy?
There's no way he isn't baiting us all at this point. Showing up on this site trying to concern troll against the first private high-speed rail service in this state.
(https://frinkiac.com/meme/S07E23/361176.jpg?b64lines=T2gsIHdvbid0IHNvbWVib2R5IApwbGVhc2UgdGhpbmsgb2YgdGhlCmNoaWxkcmVuPw==)
Quote from: JaxAvondale on February 27, 2018, 11:59:35 PM
I would love to take a train from Jax to MCO or MIA. International flights are much easier/cheaper out of MCO & MIA and I could get a lot of work done on the train without the spotty gogo service that I get on planes.
Yes indeed! Nobody is denying that having a high speed train to get to major cities wouldn't be a nice option. The current issue is that the Brightline train goes through heavily populated areas with a great deal of pedestrian foot traffic. This is undesirable because of the train noise, risk of death for pedestrians and passengers of the train if a large vehicle such as a tractor trailer is hit.
The Brightline train will hit a stuck dump truck or tractor trailer at some point. The train will go off the track, travelling at 79, 110, or 125 mph depending on section of track, and the train will crash into nearby businesses and/or homes. People will die as a result. They already have and it's just going to get worse.
Japan built dedicated high speed rail lines for this purpose and their high speed train system has been successful and safe as a result. By using the old Flager railroad for high speed rail we are putting a Corvette engine in a 1979 Ford Pinto.
Quote from: FloridaBoy on February 28, 2018, 12:47:32 PM
Quote from: JaxAvondale on February 27, 2018, 11:59:35 PM
I would love to take a train from Jax to MCO or MIA. International flights are much easier/cheaper out of MCO & MIA and I could get a lot of work done on the train without the spotty gogo service that I get on planes.
Yes indeed! Nobody is denying that having a high speed train to get to major cities wouldn't be a nice option. The current issue is that the Brightline train goes through heavily populated areas with a great deal of pedestrian foot traffic. This is undesirable because of the train noise, risk of death for pedestrians and passengers of the train if a large vehicle such as a tractor trailer is hit.
The Brightline train will hit a stuck dump truck or tractor trailer at some point. The train will go off the track, travelling at 79, 110, or 125 mph depending on section of track, and the train will crash into nearby businesses and/or homes. People will die as a result. They already have and it's just going to get worse.
Japan built dedicated high speed rail lines for this purpose and their high speed train system has been successful and safe as a result. By using the old Flager railroad for high speed rail we are putting a Corvette engine in a 1979 Ford Pinto.
How many people are killed by car accidents, do you think? I'd wager it's a lot more than trains.
Has Brightline been found at fault for any of the deaths? As far as I know they are all people that either went around the lights, bells, and gates at a crossing or were illegally crossing the tracks somewhere else. Can't fix stupid.
Quote from: FloridaBoy on February 28, 2018, 12:47:32 PM
Quote from: JaxAvondale on February 27, 2018, 11:59:35 PM
I would love to take a train from Jax to MCO or MIA. International flights are much easier/cheaper out of MCO & MIA and I could get a lot of work done on the train without the spotty gogo service that I get on planes.
Yes indeed! Nobody is denying that having a high speed train to get to major cities wouldn't be a nice option. The current issue is that the Brightline train goes through heavily populated areas with a great deal of pedestrian foot traffic. This is undesirable because of the train noise, risk of death for pedestrians and passengers of the train if a large vehicle such as a tractor trailer is hit.
The Brightline train will hit a stuck dump truck or tractor trailer at some point. The train will go off the track, travelling at 79, 110, or 125 mph depending on section of track, and the train will crash into nearby businesses and/or homes. People will die as a result. They already have and it's just going to get worse.
Japan built dedicated high speed rail lines for this purpose and their high speed train system has been successful and safe as a result. By using the old Flager railroad for high speed rail we are putting a Corvette engine in a 1979 Ford Pinto.
Thank God they don't run high speed rail through the NE corridor of the USA. That would be madness! Can you imagine the carnage??!!??
Quote from: Adam White on February 28, 2018, 05:06:07 PM
Thank God they don't run high speed rail through the NE corridor of the USA. That would be madness! Can you imagine the carnage??!!??
That's why you don't hear about the NE on this website for a SE city, they're all
DEAD! The high-speed trains killed them all! Everyone in Massachusetts sat down on the tracks and the train ran them over, so it's the train's fault!
Quote from: marcuscnelson on February 28, 2018, 09:20:45 PM
Quote from: Adam White on February 28, 2018, 05:06:07 PM
Thank God they don't run high speed rail through the NE corridor of the USA. That would be madness! Can you imagine the carnage??!!??
That's why you don't hear about the NE on this website for a SE city, they're all DEAD! The high-speed trains killed them all! Everyone in Massachusetts sat down on the tracks and the train ran them over, so it's the train's fault!
If only the f***ing Patriots had done the same thing!!!
Quote from: acme54321 on February 28, 2018, 03:15:11 PM
Has Brightline been found at fault for any of the deaths? As far as I know they are all people that either went around the lights, bells, and gates at a crossing or were illegally crossing the tracks somewhere else. Can't fix stupid.
Not one! It takes a person actively keeping the gates up for the crossing not to work right. If the system fails the gates go down, if the electricity goes out for a long period of time the gates go down. I promise you that whoever was stupid enough or responsible for keeping the gates up if a train blows through, they will be going to jail. The FRA takes that stuff very serious. The train speeds have increased from 60mph to 79mph down south. That's only 19mph faster. I have seen the Brightline blow his air (emergency stop) going 79mph, it actually stops fairly quick (for a train).
Quote from: FloridaBoy on February 27, 2018, 11:24:49 PM
There's no trolling. I searched on Travelocity just now. The ticket is still $47 on Delta, non-stop one way for 2/28, that's tomorrow. Either MCO to MIA or MIA to MCO.
Does anyone here supporting the Brightline work for Florida East Coast Railway or CSX? It seems that there's alot of folks here that are blindly supporting Brightline with the same fervor as a lobbyist or paid supporter.
Okay, your example of the will work for a lot of folks, but not all. For an international to Europe from MIA/MCO it definitely could make sense, as they tend to leave late afternoon/early evening. Personally, I love to Fly and also Love take the Train. I assure you, I don't work for either the airline or a railroad. I also have been either Platinum or Diamond with Delta the last few years so I'm well aware of typical flight prices.
The other challenge with flying is the airports are out of the way from the city (though Jacksonville's Amtrak station is also bad), have to get to the airport 60-90 minutes before the flight, and then repeat when you get to your destination. Train travel cuts that to about 30 minutes and generally train stations are in city centers.
Now, I'd say another practical use would be to take it from Jacksonville to Orlando for work, rather than drive. It takes about the same amount of time but I can then be productive. If the timing was better the same train runs from Jacksonville to Lakeland. The other challenge is that Jacksonville's train station is crazy out of the way, and Lakeland's doesn't have a car rental.
In terms of grade separation, yes most of Asia and Europe high speed trains are fully separated. Many of Asia's can approach 300mph, and Europe's can approach 200mph. That's much different than our highest speed train, which hits 125mph in parts. Amtrak's Acela is mostly grade separated, but there are some at grade crossings (the train isn't going 125 in those areas).
If you want proof that rail can work, go to the Northeast, West Coast, Chicago Area or most other areas outside of the Southeast. The Southeast is probably Amtrak's worst coverage.
In terms of "killing" people, if people are lifting up gates or going through the gate because they don't want to wait that to me is the equivalent of jumping off a highway overpass. You may get lucky and not die, but you probably will.
I don't follow your, "cutting neighborhoods in half" argument. Under this argument San Marco would be destroyed and be an unsafe area.
Quote from: FloridaBoy on February 26, 2018, 02:38:09 PM
The existing tracks are a legacy of an earlier era before airplanes and highways. These tracks go through heavily populated areas with much pedestrian foot traffic. It's disingenuous to just say, "stay off the tracks", when these rail lines go through heavily trafficked areas and the current safety record of trains is dubious.
This is a great quote. You talk about rail splitting up neighborhoods, yet you bring up highways. Are we not going to address all of the neighborhoods that have been torn apart by highways?
What is your take on Robert Moses' Planning Principles?
QuoteI don't follow your, "cutting neighborhoods in half" argument. Under this argument San Marco would be destroyed and be an unsafe area.
I owned a house in San Marco for several years. All of my neighbors without exception hated the train noise. Folks understand that trains serve a role, however, the amount of train noise over the course of a day for those long freight trains going 5 mph over the St Johns was ridiculous. Some of those freight trains did take over 10 minutes to snake through San Marco, so yeah they do cut the neighborhood in half, especially when an ambulance is waiting to get someone to one of the several hospitals in San Marco/Southbank.
How do they cut the neighborhood in half when they were there before the neighborhood? Why would someone who hates train noise, move near an active mainline railroad? It's like moving next to an airport and then complaining about jet noise. Where does common sense start to play in to all of this? As for access across tracks, the answer has always been to construct a bridge over the tracks. However, that financial responsibility doesn't fall on the back of the railroad.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 04, 2018, 12:40:07 PM
...It's like moving next to an airport and then complaining about jet noise. Where does common sense start to play in to all of this?...
And yet, there are tens of thousands that DO complain, making the answer to the question, "Rarely, if at all", at least as far as the NIMBYs are concerned.
Yes, I just find it hard to take anyone who complains about something like that seriously.
Quote from: FloridaBoy on March 04, 2018, 12:05:58 PM
Folks understand that trains serve a role, however, the amount of train noise over the course of a day for those long freight trains going 5 mph over the St Johns was ridiculous. Some of those freight trains did take over 10 minutes to snake through San Marco...
And yet, you have an issue with fast trains.
So, basically, you don't like trains, full stop.
There was another train incident.
https://www.news4jax.com/traffic/2-escape-car-minutes-before-cargo-train-crash
Quote from: thelakelander on March 04, 2018, 12:40:07 PM
How do they cut the neighborhood in half when they were there before the neighborhood? Why would someone who hates train noise, move near an active mainline railroad? It's like moving next to an airport and then complaining about jet noise.
LOL. We lived in San Marco for years. Train noise is part of living there. It's like living in Okefenokee and complaining about alligators!
Quote from: Kiva on March 04, 2018, 09:48:33 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 04, 2018, 12:40:07 PM
How do they cut the neighborhood in half when they were there before the neighborhood? Why would someone who hates train noise, move near an active mainline railroad? It's like moving next to an airport and then complaining about jet noise.
LOL. We lived in San Marco for years. Train noise is part of living there. It's like living in Okefenokee and complaining about alligators!
Yup!
People are always going to complain about something. I live in the San Marco area and hear the train all the time, doesn't bother me. In fact I don't know anyone who lives in the area that complains about it, because it's always been there. In fact when my mom comes down she says she likes hearing the train at night because it "makes her feel like she's somewhere that things are happening" ;D
Quote from: FloridaBoy on March 04, 2018, 12:05:58 PM
QuoteI don't follow your, "cutting neighborhoods in half" argument. Under this argument San Marco would be destroyed and be an unsafe area.
I owned a house in San Marco for several years. All of my neighbors without exception hated the train noise. Folks understand that trains serve a role, however, the amount of train noise over the course of a day for those long freight trains going 5 mph over the St Johns was ridiculous. Some of those freight trains did take over 10 minutes to snake through San Marco, so yeah they do cut the neighborhood in half, especially when an ambulance is waiting to get someone to one of the several hospitals in San Marco/Southbank.
As lakelander pointed out, unless you moved to the neighborhood before about 1925, then the train as there before you were. If the train bothers you, consider getting a house in the landing path of NAS Jacksonville, and call the Navy about it and complain. Let me know if the Navy returns your call.
For full disclosure - I bought a house in the flight path of NAS Jacksonville. I honestly didn't think about it at the time as I live just south of Bolles of San Jose Blvd. Driving to NAS is about 8-10 miles as you have to go south to the Buckman or north to the Fuller Warren so I didn't think about it. Now, thankfully I actually like the sound of planes but even if I didn't, it was my own fault - the Navy base was there before my house was built!
Quote from: Steve on March 05, 2018, 09:32:04 AM
Quote from: FloridaBoy on March 04, 2018, 12:05:58 PM
QuoteI don't follow your, "cutting neighborhoods in half" argument. Under this argument San Marco would be destroyed and be an unsafe area.
I owned a house in San Marco for several years. All of my neighbors without exception hated the train noise. Folks understand that trains serve a role, however, the amount of train noise over the course of a day for those long freight trains going 5 mph over the St Johns was ridiculous. Some of those freight trains did take over 10 minutes to snake through San Marco, so yeah they do cut the neighborhood in half, especially when an ambulance is waiting to get someone to one of the several hospitals in San Marco/Southbank.
As lakelander pointed out, unless you moved to the neighborhood before about 1925, then the train as there before you were. If the train bothers you, consider getting a house in the landing path of NAS Jacksonville, and call the Navy about it and complain. Let me know if the Navy returns your call.
For full disclosure - I bought a house in the flight path of NAS Jacksonville. I honestly didn't think about it at the time as I live just south of Bolles of San Jose Blvd. Driving to NAS is about 8-10 miles as you have to go south to the Buckman or north to the Fuller Warren so I didn't think about it. Now, thankfully I actually like the sound of planes but even if I didn't, it was my own fault - the Navy base was there before my house was built!
True enough. In the same vein, just saying, "that's the way it's always been, son", isn't good enough for some folks. They want things not to suck.
They should sell to people who don't mind train noise and move somewhere further away from the tracks. That's more logical than trying to kill rail traffic and the economic opportunities that are generated by our historic logistics network.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 05, 2018, 01:14:17 PM
They should sell to people who don't mind train noise and move somewhere further away from the tracks. That's more logical than trying to kill rail traffic and the economic opportunities that are generated by our historic logistics network.
Trains suck.
Brightline begins service to Miami this weekend. Everyone down here in South Florida is super excited. They have been installing exit gates in the downtown areas of the railroad. This basically turns the area into quite zones. The train will only blow the horn if there are workers present, trespassers on the tracks, or they see anything out of the norm. It's their discretion really. Anyways it makes a big difference and it could be a solution for San Marco. Although you'd have to get the city to pay for the instillation or exit gates. You could probably start around Emerson and Phillips hwy area and do every crossing until the bridge.
All of the analogies I've seen here for the trains in San Marco are failures. There are things we can do to address train noise. We can improve and even eliminate at-grade crossings of the tracks. Doing that would enable creating a quiet zone. The trains still operate, just without waking up people with their horns at 3am.
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on August 18, 2018, 02:41:33 PM
All of the analogies I've seen here for the trains in San Marco are failures. There are things we can do to address train noise. We can improve and even eliminate at-grade crossings of the tracks. Doing that would enable creating a quiet zone. The trains still operate, just without waking up people with their horns at 3am.
Eliminate an at grade crossing? There are already a limited amount of routes you can take, especially during high traffic times. The best bet is doing a quiet zone study and then it's up to the city to fork over the money for the upgrade.
Quote from: Pottsburg on August 23, 2018, 08:46:54 AM
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on August 18, 2018, 02:41:33 PM
All of the analogies I've seen here for the trains in San Marco are failures. There are things we can do to address train noise. We can improve and even eliminate at-grade crossings of the tracks. Doing that would enable creating a quiet zone. The trains still operate, just without waking up people with their horns at 3am.
Eliminate an at grade crossing? There are already a limited amount of routes you can take, especially during high traffic times. The best bet is doing a quiet zone study and then it's up to the city to fork over the money for the upgrade.
Build bridges at every one, duh.
Quote from: acme54321 on August 23, 2018, 10:17:55 AM
Quote from: Pottsburg on August 23, 2018, 08:46:54 AM
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on August 18, 2018, 02:41:33 PM
All of the analogies I've seen here for the trains in San Marco are failures. There are things we can do to address train noise. We can improve and even eliminate at-grade crossings of the tracks. Doing that would enable creating a quiet zone. The trains still operate, just without waking up people with their horns at 3am.
Eliminate an at grade crossing? There are already a limited amount of routes you can take, especially during high traffic times. The best bet is doing a quiet zone study and then it's up to the city to fork over the money for the upgrade.
Build bridges at every one, duh.
The cost of building overpasses at every RR crossing in San Marco would be prohibitive. Also, the physical disruption to the neighborhoods and businesses would be significant. As Pottsburg said, a Quiet Zone Study is the way to go.
From the river to Atlantic Boulevard, there are 5 grade crossings:
Prudential Drive and San Marco Boulevard - due to proximity of the adjacent elevated ramps to the Acosta Bridge, the Baptist Medical complex, and to each other, the engineering of this would be a nightmare. If it could be done, the cost would be enormous.
Gary Street - closed by the Overland Bridge project
Nira Street and Naldo Avenue - again, these streets intersect adjacent to their RR crossings; with the short block lengths on Nira, it would be difficult to get back to ground before the adjacent streets (Flagler and Hendricks); and putting these huge structures in a residential area probably won't be well received.
Hendricks Avenue - probably the easiest from an engineering standpoint, significant business disruption
Atlantic Boulevard - again, fairly straight-forward engineering; and, again, significant business disruption
With the exception of Hendricks Avenue - which is State Road 13 - all of these are City streets, so Jacksonville would have to come up with the many millions needed
Again, while there is still some not insignificant cost to implementing a Quiet Zone, it is orders of magnitude cheaper than even one overpass.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on August 23, 2018, 11:43:37 AMThe cost of building overpasses at every RR crossing in San Marco would be prohibitive. Also, the physical disruption to the neighborhoods and businesses would be significant. As Pottsburg said, a Quiet Zone Study is the way to go.
LOL. Ya don't say....
You have to remember, double stack trains are a lot taller.
Quote from: Pottsburg on August 23, 2018, 08:46:54 AM
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on August 18, 2018, 02:41:33 PM
All of the analogies I've seen here for the trains in San Marco are failures. There are things we can do to address train noise. We can improve and even eliminate at-grade crossings of the tracks. Doing that would enable creating a quiet zone. The trains still operate, just without waking up people with their horns at 3am.
Eliminate an at grade crossing? There are already a limited amount of routes you can take, especially during high traffic times. The best bet is doing a quiet zone study and then it's up to the city to fork over the money for the upgrade.
Yes, eliminate one or more at grade crossings. Keep in mind that a bridge for autos over the tracks is still a crossing, it's just not at grade.
You can create a Quiet Zone without eliminating at-grade crossings, but eliminating crossings can help the application process. Note that the Overland Bridge project eliminated the Gary Street crossing, just east of San Marco.