The l-o-n-g discussed dredging/eco-restoration of Big Fishweir and Little Fishweir Creeks passed unanimously out of the Finance committee today, and because of a similarly unanimous vote out of the Neighborhoods committee yesterday, the bill will be put on the City Council's consent agenda Tuesday night. This all but guarantees its passage. Among many other important components of the plan (remove sediment, stabilize stream banks, plant submerged aquatic vegetation, plant emergent vegetation, remove exotic plant species, re-contour the streambed, construct manatee corridors, install trash collectors, and create marsh habitat), Big Fishweir will be dredged to a depth of between four to six feeet. Approximately forty-five acres, representing approximately one mile of stream, will be restored. Sixty-five percent of the project will be funded by the Army Corps of Engineers, and the City has already allocated its 35% required funds in the budget. This will certainly make those RiverVu apartments more attractive.
Are the final plans available? I heard they were going to create an island at the mouth of the creek.
Quote from: camarocane on February 21, 2018, 01:16:47 PM
Are the final plans available? I heard they were going to create an island at the mouth of the creek.
I went looking but couldn't find anything, they probably don't exist yet. If they're going to dredge the creek to 4-6' that's going to generate a whole lot of sediment to put somewhere. Normally it would be pumped to a holding pond but there isn't one, or anywhere feasible to put one near the creek, or anywhere to run the pipes.
http://residentnews.net/2017/08/03/big-fishweir-creek-still-unnavigable-10-years-later/
This says that they are proposing to use geotextile bags to contain the sediment and form the base of the island, then cap it with sand. If that is the final design who knows.
I'll have to dig around for links, but from what I understand the current Army Corps plan (which was presented in 2012) only had a shelf life until 2016, so the Corps will have to undertake another study and bring its plans up to date. One option is to use the spoil to create a submerged island near the mouth that would also improve hydrologic flow, but other ideas include using the spoil to "fill in" the areas of the marsh that have deteriorated, thus creating new habitat. The primary goal of the plan is eco restoration, especially for the manatees (Fishweir reportedly used to be a place where they birthed their calves), but a lot of discussion centered on how the dredeging makes the creek more usable for non-monitorized recreation.
I'm excited to see what the dredging uncovers. Several (up to 5?) natural springs were apparently capped back in the day; it would be awesome to see those flowing again.
Quote from: grimss on February 21, 2018, 01:42:17 PM
I'm excited to see what the dredging uncovers. Several (up to 5?) natural springs were apparently capped back in the day; it would be awesome to see those flowing again.
That is interesting.
I wonder how the geotextile bags and sediment trap would function? I assume one would pump mud into the bags, solids would then be captured within the bags and water filtered out. Would be neat to see the process.
Quote from: camarocane on February 21, 2018, 01:47:05 PM
Quote from: grimss on February 21, 2018, 01:42:17 PM
I'm excited to see what the dredging uncovers. Several (up to 5?) natural springs were apparently capped back in the day; it would be awesome to see those flowing again.
That is interesting.
I wonder how the geotextile bags and sediment trap would function? I assume one would pump mud into the bags, solids would then be captured within the bags and water filtered out. Would be neat to see the process.
Yep, normally they do it on land so the water drains out then they dry out. I'd imagine with this approach they should be done in situ since you can't really move them once filled.
I'm kind of surprised that they are leaving the sediment in the water though. Maybe it's not as bad up here with the more substantial tidal swings, but farther south (Indian River) much of this material is nasty anaerobic muck. The creeks down there don't really flow with any significant current though so maybe the muck causing material up here gets washed away and heavier sediment remains.
Does anyone know how this dredging will affect some of the houses that flooded due to rising waters from Little Fishweir Creek during Irma?
Quote from: camarocane on February 21, 2018, 01:16:47 PM
Are the final plans available? I heard they were going to create an island at the mouth of the creek.
Yes.
This due to the long delay in Fishweir Creek Restoration process dating back many years.......lagged long enough that eventually (relatively recently in Creek Restoration Time) a number of new private docks were constructed at the Northerly bank,these docks smack dab in the area deemed most appropriate for Ecosystem Restoration;re-establish wetlands,per Project Preferred Alternative 1.
But the project lapsed after preferred alternative 1 was established,the docks built,this during the tenure of a Jacksonville person named to head DEP,folks like me and the useless River Keeper did not monitor State/Fed permit applications that would have been a hint to the Dock Build Episode....so here we are,faced with second choice "Island" proposal,spoil deposited away from the new docks.
May 6 2019 update
With re-energized City Of Jacksonville support (after all...St Johns Village Grand Opening soon to occur....can't stand to look at a Mudflat Creek 8) ) creek waterway and banks have seen survey and study crew out and about throughout all Project Study Sections; "A" commencing at Roosevelt Blvd downstream to Study Area "B",basically a point as far upstream as one can see from Herschel Street Bridge,ending downstream at Herschel Street bridge,"C" extending downstream from the bridge to the Creek mouth,"D" comprised of Little Fishweir Creek.
USACOE inclination now is to adhere to the original Project Preferred Alternative; restore the once prominent wetlands at the mouth of the creek,adjacent to St Johns Village across from Little Fishweir Creek,meandering off shore Morningside Street rather than the Funky "Island" Alternative conjured up because of the recent dock building along the Morningside shoreline.
The Island proposal was eventually meet with opposition and also by this writer during the time when the Island Alternative was first envisioned during USACOE Scoping process. And now the Marsh is under fire from some Morningside waterfront residents;some would want to see open water viewscape rather than marsh as clearly depicted in study photos dating back some decades.
Of course Creek Restoration is not solely for the benefit of Creek residents.
Why not just haul the dredge material away on a barge and dump at Blount Island or another designated spoil dump area....?
Because the premise of Creek Restoration funding has been Ecosystem Restoration,restoration of three acres or so of former creek mouth Marsh, "Habitat Units".
The Congressional funding assumption may need to be revised.
The State of Florida Department of Transportation is also in play- Herschel Street bridge aged piers. DOT wants assurance that removing infill sediment from around the bridge piers will not cause harmful effect to the piers.To this,one could note that in fact the Herschel Street Bridge piers were placed at the bridge location during a time the creek at the bridge location was in fact deeper,on order of current restoration depth plans.....Bingo! There may be DOT concerns with increased Creek water velocity,which also in fact would be a result of a restored creek system. One possible scenario is dredging would not occur around the Bridge piers,a 'sand bar' to remain just upstream.
DOT acknowledges Herschel Street bridge is due for replacement.
Didn't the Herschel Street bridge get replaced last year?
Quote from: JaxAvondale on May 06, 2019, 11:02:38 PM
Didn't the Herschel Street bridge get replaced last year?
I believe that was the one over Little Fishweir you are referring to, he is talking about the larger bridge over Big Fishweir by Harpoon Louie's.
That was the most coherent FP&L post I've ever seen. Thanks for the update.
Quote from: acme54321 on May 07, 2019, 06:38:37 AM
Quote from: JaxAvondale on May 06, 2019, 11:02:38 PM
Didn't the Herschel Street bridge get replaced last year?
I believe that was the one over Little Fishweir you are referring to, he is talking about the larger bridge over Big Fishweir by Harpoon Louie's.
Thanks for the clarification!
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 07, 2019, 09:29:16 AM
That was the most coherent FP&L post I've ever seen. Thanks for the update.
Glad your Comprehension Skills are expanding,possibly morphing towards Efficacious Mode. Beyond that,Who Cares for such a ridiculous waste of reading time.
Allow me to add a few more endless loop reading moments:
Too bad my Mother in Law recently donated $5,000 to WJCT.
Stay tuned to the connection to Fishweir Creek.
Fast Forward: February 2023
Thanks to a number of new docks built, almost in unison, on Morningside at the mouth of the Creek, the first preferred Alternative, extensive dredge, material to be deposited at the mouth of the creek, restoring a marsh once evident there, was dashed.
For a short period of time there was an alternative proposal to create an " Island" away from the docks. That did not go far.....
Therefore, dredge material must be transported far off site....... the original two million dollar proposal bulged to EIGHT MILLION.
And that does not include dredging either side of Herschel Street Bridge.
500 feet of hard packed sand sedimentation upstream of the bridge will not be touched.
850 feet downstream of Herschel Bridge will not be touched...... yep..... the prominent mud flat in front of the apartments will remain.
No dredging around docks. After all, docks were a cause for a shift in project scope. And no money for docks. We only have Eight Million to spend....
Hey...... at least we " Did Something" . River Keeper Roast.
No worries...... " Fishweir" named after shallow water fish net on poles encirclement once common at certain points on the River.
The natural, pristine Fishweir was a shallow water mouth, two and a half foot depth at low tide.
Where the houses are now at Woodmere was a marshy wetland. Same for Morningside.
The Apartments/ Commander site was marsh, only able to be developed in the 1960's prior to certain wetland protection law proceedings and rule.
I reside on a very large lot within the upper reaches of the project area upstream Herschel bridge.
The many files and notes are hilarious.
I was fine with how the creek condition was when ai purchased the place in 1998.
I was aware of the significant single event that deposited a string of sand bars at the creek. These sediment sand bars not addressed either in the current project or even in the first preferred alternative pontification.
After all, the Jacksonville Waterways Commission secured an affidavit from the sole source of the sediment inflow episode, stating no soil was lost, disbursed from the Lowe's construction site....
on two occasions I have declined opportunity to serve on Waterways Commission.
We get the Waterways we Deserve.
A local publication person charged Fishweir is the "armpit of Jacksonville ".
Four boats in the back yard at ready- kayaks etc.
I rarely run the backyard creek.
It's a privilege to outgrow a local waterway.
What?
"What?"
What Be Happening!?....
No ' What'?
All of this is clearly traced ( my " Hilarious" piles of historical narrative spanning twenty years a back up. So ' What'. )
Non News.
" Press" lack of historical knowledge , or for some reason, lack of propensity to report on historical proceedings ( Morningside Dock building Taboo)
Resident News. Florida Times Union/ Steve Patterson. Folio. Others other than me, here on this Forum.
The timing of the Morningside dock permitting an interesting key clue.
I will be making an inquiry to FL DEP on that.
Simply for Closure.
This is " what" we get for Eight Million
I should add:
October 19 2019
Big Fishweir Creek, Duval County, FL
Aquatic Restoration Project
Presented By: USACOE Jacksonville District
( My notes- also in Attendance: USACOE Mike Hollingsworth.
The first Jax St John's " River Keeper", who luckily went on to more productive venue)
At this public meeting- faculty hosted by a local public facility..... the scope of Dredge Footprint was unveiled: No Dredge from Herschel Bridge towards the River for 850 feet, and no dredge from Herschel Bridge upstream for 500 feet.
During a period shortly before this public meeting, RAP announced negotiations with FL Dot that dredging around the Herschel Bridge would happen. ( Note- Fishweir Creek northern shore from the mouth of the creek to Roosevelt Blvd is RAP boundary).
By October 19 2019, at the public hearing unveiling, Herschel Bridge Off Limits.
No Dredge 850 feet downstream, 500 feet upstream.
The public meeting there at the public building..... Fishweir Elementary.... cut short. Move along folks, we gotta close this place.
Many hands still in the air..... Questions.
The current events / dredge foot print profiled then. October 2019.
The " Press" exhibits no interest in historical events narrative, how the project was subjugated due to Morningside dock building spree.
In my experience, the public, citizens are easily manipulated, as if a herd of Sheep.
If Fishweir ' Restoration' truly mattered..... credible action would not have lagged for a quarter Century.
Next time there is an ever popular RiverKeeper Oyster Roast.......skip the Oysters.... let's all just jump in to the fire.
We get the Waterways we Deserve.
Fishweir dredge upstream Herschel to US17 has concluded.
Quote from: Florida Power And Light on May 06, 2019, 09:25:56 PM
May 6 2019 update
With re-energized City Of Jacksonville support (after all...St Johns Village Grand Opening soon to occur....can't stand to look at a Mudflat Creek 8) ) creek waterway and banks have seen survey and study crew out and about throughout all Project Study Sections; "A" commencing at Roosevelt Blvd downstream to Study Area "B",basically a point as far upstream as one can see from Herschel Street Bridge,ending downstream at Herschel Street bridge,"C" extending downstream from the bridge to the Creek mouth,"D" comprised of Little Fishweir Creek.
USACOE inclination now is to adhere to the original Project Preferred Alternative; restore the once prominent wetlands at the mouth of the creek,adjacent to St Johns Village across from Little Fishweir Creek,meandering off shore Morningside Street rather than the Funky "Island" Alternative conjured up because of the recent dock building along the Morningside shoreline.
The Island proposal was eventually meet with opposition and also by this writer during the time when the Island Alternative was first envisioned during USACOE Scoping process. And now the Marsh is under fire from some Morningside waterfront residents;some would want to see open water viewscape rather than marsh as clearly depicted in study photos dating back some decades.
Of course Creek Restoration is not solely for the benefit of Creek residents.
Why not just haul the dredge material away on a barge and dump at Blount Island or another designated spoil dump area....?
Because the premise of Creek Restoration funding has been Ecosystem Restoration,restoration of three acres or so of former creek mouth Marsh, "Habitat Units".
The Congressional funding assumption may need to be revised.
The State of Florida Department of Transportation is also in play- Herschel Street bridge aged piers. DOT wants assurance that removing infill sediment from around the bridge piers will not cause harmful effect to the piers.To this,one could note that in fact the Herschel Street Bridge piers were placed at the bridge location during a time the creek at the bridge location was in fact deeper,on order of current restoration depth plans.....Bingo! There may be DOT concerns with increased Creek water velocity,which also in fact would be a result of a restored creek system. One possible scenario is dredging would not occur around the Bridge piers,a 'sand bar' to remain just upstream.
DOT acknowledges Herschel Street bridge is due for replacement.
May 2023.
Project winding down.
Eight Million Dollars.
Yep- the mud flat downstream Herschel Bridge remains..... 800 feet from bridge downstream not dredged.
And five hundred feet upstream Herschel Bridge not touched.... an unseen ( just below typical water levels) sedimentation blockage.
At least " Something" was " Done"
In the neighborhood it's basically a taboo subject.
It's easy stalking the Wild Taboo.
Is This In Fact the most recent post on this Forum Thread???
Getting Stale, Moldy......