Getting rid of one-way streets won't fix DT's problems
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Jacksonville has a history of implementing simple concepts poorly in its quest to revitalize downtown. In the rush to convert downtown’s one-way streets into two-ways, Jacksonville needs to avoid the familiar trend of outright going the wrong way.
Read More: https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2018-jan-getting-rid-of-one-way-streets-wont-fix-dts-problems
Really? This was all the rage on this website for a while. It was as though removing the parking meters and doing away with one way streets it would be a "GAME CHANGER"!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: civil42806 on January 22, 2018, 09:45:38 AM
Really? This was all the rage on this website for a while. It was as though removing the parking meters and doing away with one way streets it would be a "GAME CHANGER"!!!!!!!!!!
It would be, although removing the meters is the bigger fish by far.
Lol, "game changer". That's a word Jax needs to put to death. There is no single thing we can do for downtown that will be a "game changer".
As for the two-way street stuff, things go down the tubes when the belief turns to the thought that a two-way conversion is always better than a one-way configuration and that, this move alone will lead to economic enhancement. It won't. Spending money to two-way a street like Ashley gets you absolutely nothing. FBC will still be FBC and the surface parking lots will still be surface parking. On the other hand, two-waying Julia or Pearl will fix the confusing circulation of the downtown street network. Furthermore, is two-waying Hogan a better solution that reducing Hogan to a single-lane one-way with the other lane dedicated to bikes as a cycle track?
My fear with Jax is "two-waying" has become a buzz word with most forgetting that traffic calming and right-sizing of streets to fit within their context should be the primary goal. Without including those elements (with two-way conversion or one way enhancements), we're totally missing the boat again.
If they did two-way all downtown streets, it would be an improvement to what we've got. The current pattern is incomprehensible.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 22, 2018, 10:31:56 AM
Lol, "game changer". That's a word Jax needs to put to death. There is no single thing we can do for downtown that will be a "game changer".
As for the two-way street stuff, things go down the tubes when the belief turns to the thought that a two-way conversion is always better than a one-way configuration and that, this move alone will lead to economic enhancement. It won't. Spending money to two-way a street like Ashley gets you absolutely nothing. FBC will still be FBC and the surface parking lots will still be surface parking. On the other hand, two-waying Julia or Pearl will fix the confusing circulation of the downtown street network. Furthermore, is two-waying Hogan a better solution that reducing Hogan to a single-lane one-way with the other lane dedicated to bikes as a cycle track?
My fear with Jax is "two-waying" has become a buzz word with most forgetting that traffic calming and right-sizing of streets to fit within their context should be the primary goal. Without including those elements (with two-way conversion or one way enhancements), we're totally missing the boat again.
I agree with this article. I come across one-way streets in too many places: Hamburg, Munich, here in NYC, Montreal, etc, to fully believe that they're a meaningful detractor from downtown vibrancy. I do believe slowing down traffic, narrowing streets (i.e. creating streetside parking and installing bike lanes between parked cars and the curbside) would be super accretive to making downtown much more pedestrian-oriented. Downtown needs a ton more foot traffic, and anyone interested in game-changing Downtown should be obsessed with maximizing foot traffic.
The risk of maximizing foot traffic is that many people in Jax don't like to walk to anything. They're used to suburban conveniences like pulling right up to store fronts. Downtown must take a stand and say - we are not designing for those people.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 22, 2018, 10:45:47 AM
If they did two-way all downtown streets, it would be an improvement to what we've got. The current pattern is incomprehensible.
That's the easy way of looking at it. I'm skeptical that two-waying State and Union would do anything other than clog traffic, given the AADT and lack of focus on land use and site design that generates pedestrian traffic. With that said, I do give the DIA credit for a plan that appears to only address the streets that really need to be addressed. Pearl and Julia, which will fix the incomprehensible issue. Forsyth and Adams which makes sense economically, given the street level retail spots and low AADT. They also include Hogan and Monroe. Going to a single lane and adding bike infrastructure the length of the DT core may be appropriate for those two, as opposed to two-waying. For these projects, it's a total of $12.7 million to restripe, relocate meters and modify signals. If you narrow lanes, move curbs, it's $24.3 million.
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on January 22, 2018, 11:12:36 AM
The risk of maximizing foot traffic is that many people in Jax don't like to walk to anything. They're used to suburban conveniences like pulling right up to store fronts. Downtown must take a stand and say - we are not designing for those people.
If designing for this scenario, it would make more sense to reduce some streets to a single lane one-way and add diagonal parking on both sides of that single lane. Yes, you'd still have a one-way configuration but you'd slow down traffic, increase curbside parking and have room to add bulb-outs for pedestrian oriented landscaping, sidewalk cafes and mid block crossings. These types of enhancements would do more for stimulating foot traffic than simply painting a double yellow line in the middle of the street, moving a few signals and calling it a day.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 22, 2018, 11:30:05 AM
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on January 22, 2018, 11:12:36 AM
The risk of maximizing foot traffic is that many people in Jax don't like to walk to anything. They're used to suburban conveniences like pulling right up to store fronts. Downtown must take a stand and say - we are not designing for those people.
If designing for this scenario, it would make more sense to reduce some streets to a single lane one-way and add diagonal parking on both sides of that single lane. Yes, you'd still have a one-way configuration but you'd slow down traffic, increase curbside parking and have room to add bulb-outs for pedestrian oriented landscaping, sidewalk cafes and mid block crossings. These types of enhancements would do more for stimulating foot traffic than simply painting a double yellow line in the middle of the street, moving a few signals and calling it a day.
You're absolutely right. Now can someone get that through the skulls of Wallace and the DDRB? Downtown Jax should be the "foot zone." That's the something special that hopefully distinguishes it from the suburbs. If people don't like to walk, even after pedestrian comforts like shade elements, etc, then downtown isn't for them.
I thought the whole DT was $3mm. I guess I read something wrong. Har dto believe it costs $12mm much less $24mm. AS for the meters, just pull them up and don't replant them. That would save some money.
If they are going to restripe anyway, they can just as easily retripe with bike lanes.
$3 million is just for modifying traffic signal equipment on Monroe, Adams, Forsyth, Pearl, Julia and Hogan.
The whole two-waying thing is a joke. I've lived in Riverside for years and worked downtown for close to 5 years. When people decide they need to come downtown or come to king street they don't scratch there head and say "forget it i'm going somewhere else with two way streets". That whole Bay Street two light conversion debacle still make me question what lane I should be in at night time.
Quote from: jaxlore on January 22, 2018, 01:17:34 PM
The whole two-waying thing is a joke. I've lived in Riverside for years and worked downtown for close to 5 years. When people decide they need to come downtown or come to king street they don't scratch there head and say "forget it i'm going somewhere else with two way streets". That whole Bay Street two light conversion debacle still make me question what lane I should be in at night time.
Which is why it should be... two lanes.
That one is a two-way conversion. It's just set up to be reversible one-way when needed. Although a solution I would not recommend, it is another example of how a street can be retrofitted to fit whatever needs you think you may have.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 22, 2018, 10:31:56 AM
Lol, "game changer". That's a word Jax needs to put to death. There is no single thing we can do for downtown that will be a "game changer".
(http://www.banderasnews.com/1512/images/fuddruckers.jpg)
Quote from: KenFSU on January 22, 2018, 02:04:30 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 22, 2018, 10:31:56 AM
Lol, "game changer". That's a word Jax needs to put to death. There is no single thing we can do for downtown that will be a "game changer".
(http://www.banderasnews.com/1512/images/fuddruckers.jpg)
You stand corrected, Lake.
Have they forgotten about two waying Post and College? That really helped! They want to expand this concept!
Quote from: thelakelander on January 22, 2018, 10:31:56 AM
Lol, "game changer". That's a word Jax needs to put to death. There is no single thing we can do for downtown that will be a "game changer".
As for the two-way street stuff, things go down the tubes when the belief turns to the thought that a two-way conversion is always better than a one-way configuration and that, this move alone will lead to economic enhancement. It won't. Spending money to two-way a street like Ashley gets you absolutely nothing. FBC will still be FBC and the surface parking lots will still be surface parking. On the other hand, two-waying Julia or Pearl will fix the confusing circulation of the downtown street network. Furthermore, is two-waying Hogan a better solution that reducing Hogan to a single-lane one-way with the other lane dedicated to bikes as a cycle track?
My fear with Jax is "two-waying" has become a buzz word with most forgetting that traffic calming and right-sizing of streets to fit within their context should be the primary goal. Without including those elements (with two-way conversion or one way enhancements), we're totally missing the boat again.
Yes, First Baptist Church will still be a cancer holding everything back. There's nothing downtown. Everything they do to fix downtown turns out to be a disaster or not effective. Skyway/U2C, The Convention Center, two way streets, painting parking garages and Skyway Structures, Rosa Parks Station, The Landing, and more ideas have failed to bring people back to downtown.
Jax still has a small town mentality in 2018. We take the Skyway monorail out to put a slower robot bus in its place. This is progressive? Instead, you could use that money to build a connection track from Jacksonville Terminal back to the CSX South, North, and West. Too late for that! Simple sidewalks in neighborhoods with no sidewalks would be an improvement. Maybe, if Jacksonville did that, people might be able to walk to the buses, so they could get downtown to stimulate the downtown economy.
Everyone is in the outer parts of town just working the crap jobs to survive. They don't even have time to go DT to do anything. I guess that's how certain parties want this city to be.
Two waying more streets is just another cheap trick to make it look like Jax is "doing something". It is just another contract to a friend of a friend to tear something up while looking progressive!
Jax has to stop doing this backwards game!
Quote from: SightseerLounge on January 22, 2018, 02:31:08 PM
Have they forgotten about two waying Post and College? That really helped! They want to expand this concept!
What really helped was moving US 17 traffic to the Roosevelt Expressway, I-10, I-95 and State & Union. Then allowing parallel parking on both sides of those streets. I doubt cars can pass in both directions at the same time in areas where parallel parking on both sides occurs in some stretches of College and Stockton now. Two-way conversion aside, what I described are the traffic calming examples applied.
I wish they'd make all of the N-S streets two way. As it is having paired streets in the same direction and driving 3 block to get going back is ridiculous. No way State and Union need to be made two way unless you bury the "expressway" under them.