More infill housing underway in Jax's urban core
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/UCU100817/i-f9DGSPZ/0/58f1da31/XL/20171007_110428-XL.jpg)
Momentum in the densification of Jacksonville's urban core picks up steam as more projects continue to break ground. Quietly, construction is now underway on two multifamily infill developments, adding a combined 233 apartment units in the inner city.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2017-oct-more-infill-housing-underway-in-jaxs-urban-core
Trying to view the full article on my phone, but I keep getting redirected to a malicious Walmart gift card webpage :(
Thanks for letting me know. I'll take a look at what's going on.
So if you add the apartments on Homes street, we're looking at between 600-700 more residents in the inner core. I'm concerned about Broadstone River House and would love to see 200 Riverside break ground. How close are we to the magic 10,000 people number?
Quote from: sanmarcomatt on October 10, 2017, 11:20:46 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 10, 2017, 11:08:44 AM
So if you add the apartments on Homes street, we're looking at between 600-700 more residents in the inner core. I'm concerned about Broadstone River House and would love to see 200 Riverside break ground. How close are we to the magic 10,000 people number?
Why are you concerned about Broadstone?
Somebody said work has stopped.
Broadstone seems to be the slowest construction project of all time. There are always a couple of guys there doing work but it never seems much more than that. They started framing a week ago or so? When I was on the riverwalk yesterday around 2:00 there was a guy driving a boom lift around and I heard one nailgun a few times. Usually when a project is in framing there are multiple crews and it sounds like WW3 with all of the nailers running. It seems like there are never more than 10 people on site and I drive by multiple times a week.
The whole project has been consistent..... ly slow.
Quote from: acme54321 on October 10, 2017, 11:47:44 AM
Broadstone seems to be the slowest construction project of all time. There are always a couple of guys there doing work but it never seems much more than that. They started framing a week ago or so? When I was on the riverwalk yesterday around 2:00 there was a guy driving a boom lift around and I heard one nailgun a few times. Usually when a project is in framing there are multiple crews and it sounds like WW3 with all of the nailers running. It seems like there are never more than 10 people on site and I drive by multiple times a week.
The whole project has been consistent..... ly slow.
That's really more of a microcosm of the labor market in Jax right now. General contractors are having a hard time with reliable subs... particularly on multifamily construction. There are really only 4 GC's doing multifamily in Jacksonville right now, and most of their labor pool is in areas like Atlanta, Nashville, Miami... where work is plentiful.
I don't know about all of that, they're pumping out multifamily stuff all over the Southside and SJTC
Jacksonville lags behind many Sunbelt cities in multifamily housing starts. Labor supply is low, forcing labor costs to rise. The construction labor pool has been a problem in Jacksonville (and nationwide) for a few years now.
Quote from: acme54321 on October 10, 2017, 07:51:39 PM
I don't know about all of that, they're pumping out multifamily stuff all over the Southside and SJTC
Correct. Broadstone's slowness is unique unto itself right now. Southside and SJTC area are not having that problem at all. Neither are the La Villa projects. Nor Bartram Park and St Johns County projects.
And a lot more is about to start.
To be fair when they started this project I think the DDRB presentation had something like completion in Fall 2018. I thought that sounded crazy because that was like 30 months of construction. I guess they have a plan because at that's where they're heading.
I still don't buy the labor shortage excuse though, but whatever.
Quote from: acme54321 on October 11, 2017, 12:47:52 PM
To be fair when they started this project I think the DDRB presentation had something like completion in Fall 2018. I thought that sounded crazy because that was like 30 months of construction. I guess they have a plan because at that's where they're heading.
I still don't buy the labor shortage excuse though, but whatever.
My comments on labor supply/price of labor are based on my professional experience in this area and looking at proformas for multifamily and mixed-use construction projects day in and day out.
Construction costs, based largely on a surge in labor prices, are an issue in today's market. It's why you see proposed mixed-use projects such as 200 Riverside in Brooklyn have to add five new floors' worth of units in order to be able to generate enough rent to make their project financially feasible.
There is a limit on gleaning much from anecdotal observations comparing construction of a garden-style apartment with surface parking on a greenfield suburban site, versus building an apartment complex with structured parking on a waterfront, urban site that includes bulkhead work, environmental remediation and whose work was halted by flooding issues caused by a hurricane. That's not exactly comparing apples to apples.
Just read a Times-Union article on a new proposed residential project in LaVilla by Vestcor. Apparently, the projects thus far have been "affordable housing" units, and the new proposal will have a mix of "affordable housing" and "workforce housing." Affordable housing is apparently for the poor, and workforce housing are for people earning up to 140% of the area's median income.
The new development will require millions in city incentives (forgiveness of property tax on value appreciation). Is Jax incentivizing a vast new urban neighborhood of the projects? What might this area look like in 10 years? How much is too much? Or is any type of development better than vacant lots?
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on November 01, 2017, 08:57:29 AM
Just read a Times-Union article on a new proposed residential project in LaVilla by Vestcor. Apparently, the projects thus far have been "affordable housing" units, and the new proposal will have a mix of "affordable housing" and "workforce housing." Affordable housing is apparently for the poor, and workforce housing are for people earning up to 140% of the area's median income.
The new development will require millions in city incentives (forgiveness of property tax on value appreciation). Is Jax incentivizing a vast new urban neighborhood of the projects? What might this area look like in 10 years? How much is too much? Or is any type of development better than vacant lots?
Anything is better than vacant lots but prudent use of the land is still far preferable. These piece meal projects are nice but I really wish something more cohesive and integrated would have been planned instead.
This is that second project on the same block as the Lofts of La Villa. Size and scope are comparable (130 units project 1 and 132 units in project 2) but there doesn't seem to be much known about ground floor retail or how the two projects will mesh together.
Kudos to Vestcor. I don't see a problem. The Northbank is no where close to being a viable market for urban infill. I personally believe it would not hurt to be more aggressive on the incentive front. Especially when it comes to restoration of existing structures. As for when the time comes to stop giving incentives, that won't arrive until DT becomes a competitive market rate option with the burbs for private sector development and investment.
There's a good article about this on the Jax Daily Record. In regards to design, as long as the DDRB follows the rules on the books, this development should integrate well into the surrounding environment. When variances start getting approved is when we end up with projects that don't seamlessly fit in or assist in the long term realization of a pedestrian scale community.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 01, 2017, 12:18:46 PM
There's a good article about this on the Jax Daily Record. In regards to design, as long as the DDRB follows the rules on the books, this development should integrate well into the surrounding environment. When variances start getting approved is when we end up with projects that don't seamlessly fit in or assist in the long term realization of a pedestrian scale community.
So 390 new units in LaVilla...how many LaVilla residential units were razed during River City Renaissance? Vestcor's efforts certainly seem restorative. I'd hope that JPD is strategizing around downtown's resurgence. Crime is probably fairly low downtown because criminals have few people at night to target. As the area starts to bustle again and enters a fragile stage of resurgence, few things will damage the branding of this resurgence more than widely-publicized criminal pestilence.
How to get out in front of this - Bright Lights? Surveillance Cameras on every corner? Officers on foot patrol? Or we just have to hope and pray?
^lighting downtown has always been an issue. This is something the city has said they're working on several times, but I haven't noticed any results. The Northbank riverwalk desperately needs new lighting as well. There are several sections that are completely dark at night.
Maybe the added residential will eventually encourage the JTA to run the Skyway later and open on weekends.
Jaxnyc79, Lavilla had over 3,000 residents when it was annexed by Jax in 1887. At its height, it was probably double that. If we get any where close to its past population, it would easily be the most dense neighborhood in the city. So bring them on. The more residences, the better. Pack it with people and the rest will come.
thelakelander - I'm a big believer in density, as long as there's contextualism, walkability, and transit-orient design. The Vestcor projects appear to more than accomplish this. I'm rooting for their success. I regret that smart growth and new urbanism aren't guiding every project (especially infill) in Jacksonville (including outside the urban core...like in Arlington, around Regency, etc.)
Does JTA have any sort of T.O.D. initiative to partner with developers considering dense, affordable housing developments around bus stations (even well outside the urban core)?
Could we get a little map with this projects location highlighted?
Thanks in advance.
Quote from: JeffreyS on November 01, 2017, 08:07:50 PM
Could we get a little map with this projects location highlighted?
Thanks in advance.
Blue = Lofts at La Villa and the lot to the right is the new development.
Red = Houston Manor.
(https://image.ibb.co/fC1ifw/La_Villa.jpg)
There's also the Lofts of Monroe. That project is under construction on the block bounded by Lee, Monroe, Davis and Ashley. It looks like they pulled up the long demolished Flagler Hotel's foundation in October. Also, I believe the proposed Vestcor project extends all the way to Jefferson St.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 02, 2017, 10:35:27 AM
There's also the Lofts of Monroe. That project is under construction on the block bounded by Lee, Monroe, Davis and Ashley. It looks like they pulled up the long demolished Flagler Hotel's foundation in October. Also, I believe the proposed Vestcor project extends all the way to Jefferson St.
I wanted to add Lofts of Monroe but couldn't recall exactly which block it was going in. Ashley is a few blocks north of that. Is it supposed to be Adams?
As for Vestcor's second project, to extend all the way to Jefferson suggests they plan either 2-3 floors or a lot of parking/green space. It's the same number of units as Lofts of La Villa but that's twice the lot size. Have they provided any details on that yet?
My bad. Adams, not Ashley. I haven't seen any preliminary plans. I suspect there will be some surface parking, given the total amount of units vs the amount of land left on that block. Either that, or some limited amount of retail could be included.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 02, 2017, 11:53:04 AM
My bad. Adams, not Ashley. I haven't seen any preliminary plans. I suspect there will be some surface parking, given the total amount of units vs the amount of land left on that block. Either that, or some limited amount of retail could be included.
Some retail maybe on the corner would be nice. A lot of traffic by there going onto Riverside. I am happy that it is extending all the way to Jefferson though. Also, you can get a decent lunch crowd with the Fed across the street, CSX close by, and a lot of the law firms close by that aren't served by anything within walking distance except food trucks.
These projects haven't been heralded as much and yet I think they could prove to be a true turning point for downtown. TAD/TOD and a new infusion of real living/breathing people...ground level retail would be icing on the cake.
So Vestcor's third LaVilla project probably won't have retail. Today's Jax Daily Record article about LaVilla with a Vestcor representative saying they don't do retail.
^ I saw that too, but it confuses me, given that 11E and the Carling have retail. Do they just not add retail components to new construction projects?
Quote from: Jim on November 02, 2017, 10:11:33 AM
Quote from: JeffreyS on November 01, 2017, 08:07:50 PM
Could we get a little map with this projects location highlighted?
Thanks in advance.
Blue = Lofts at La Villa and the lot to the right is the new development.
Red = Houston Manor.
(https://image.ibb.co/fC1ifw/La_Villa.jpg)
The bird's eye view makes it clear...these recent projects are nice, but so many vacancies, so many patches of green, and so very far to go
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on November 02, 2017, 01:56:21 PM
^ I saw that too, but it confuses me, given that 11E and the Carling have retail. Do they just not add retail components to new construction projects?
I'm not sure. The Lofts of Monroe project also includes a small retail space. Maybe the response was in reference to large amounts of retail space...like a grocery store. With that said, how do the residents living up the street in Blodgett Villas get their groceries? Most likely the Harvey's on Union St or the Publix stores in Five Points and Gateway. That will have to do for LaVilla in the short term if Fresh Market isn't attractive.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 02, 2017, 02:48:00 PM
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on November 02, 2017, 01:56:21 PM
^ I saw that too, but it confuses me, given that 11E and the Carling have retail. Do they just not add retail components to new construction projects?
I'm not sure. The Lofts of Monroe project also includes a small retail space. Maybe the response was in reference to large amounts of retail space...like a grocery store. With that said, how do the residents living up the street in Blodgett Villas get their groceries? Most likely the Harvey's on Union St or the Publix stores in Five Points and Gateway. That will have to do for LaVilla in the short term if Fresh Market isn't attractive.
Given that leaving the grocer most likely requires a decent amount of schlepping, it might take a lot of residential density to see a grocery store on the ground floor of an apartment building without a massive parking lot in the front or back. The patrons keeping the store float need to be able to walk short distances with all the crap they've purchased, and still exist in great enough numbers to support a diversified supermarket.
^ There is still the bodega planned for the Trio as well. And the farmer's market, not that that's walking distance. This also seems like further motivation for converting part or all of the Landing to a food hall/market concept.
^Yeah, I expect we'll see some more bodegas and convenience stores pop up as these things come online. Similar happened in San Marco, and Riverside before Publix.
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on November 02, 2017, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: Jim on November 02, 2017, 10:11:33 AM
Quote from: JeffreyS on November 01, 2017, 08:07:50 PM
Could we get a little map with this projects location highlighted?
Thanks in advance.
Blue = Lofts at La Villa and the lot to the right is the new development.
Red = Houston Manor.
(https://image.ibb.co/fC1ifw/La_Villa.jpg)
The bird's eye view makes it clear...these recent projects are nice, but so many vacancies, so many patches of green, and so very far to go
Thanks