It's not a good day when another city's paper publishes a searing expose on your city's neglected infrastructure - with quotes from political leadership that indicate no plans to address the growing issue.
Full story:
http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2017/investigations/jacksonville-never-drains-hurricane/
QuoteIn 2013, the Rockefeller Foundation-supported nonprofit 100 Resilient Cities selected Jacksonville to receive a $1 million grant to identify and protect itself from possible hazards, like hurricanes or severe storms. Jacksonville abandoned the program after the administration and the city council deadlocked over which official should lead the effort and how much it would cost.
The city never got a dime.
WOW
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 06, 2017, 01:44:25 PM
QuoteIn 2013, the Rockefeller Foundation-supported nonprofit 100 Resilient Cities selected Jacksonville to receive a $1 million grant to identify and protect itself from possible hazards, like hurricanes or severe storms. Jacksonville abandoned the program after the administration and the city council deadlocked over which official should lead the effort and how much it would cost.
The city never got a dime.
WOW
Something else we can thank Mayor Brown for.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 06, 2017, 01:44:25 PM
QuoteIn 2013, the Rockefeller Foundation-supported nonprofit 100 Resilient Cities selected Jacksonville to receive a $1 million grant to identify and protect itself from possible hazards, like hurricanes or severe storms. Jacksonville abandoned the program after the administration and the city council deadlocked over which official should lead the effort and how much it would cost.
The city never got a dime.
^ sorry but no Tac. Mayor Curry abandoned the program, as he wanted nothing to do with something initiated by Mayor Brown - especially one coming from a "liberal" think tank doing work on climate change!
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 06, 2017, 01:55:47 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 06, 2017, 01:44:25 PM
QuoteIn 2013, the Rockefeller Foundation-supported nonprofit 100 Resilient Cities selected Jacksonville to receive a $1 million grant to identify and protect itself from possible hazards, like hurricanes or severe storms. Jacksonville abandoned the program after the administration and the city council deadlocked over which official should lead the effort and how much it would cost.
The city never got a dime.
^ sorry but no Tac. Mayor Curry abandoned the program, as he wanted nothing to do with something initiated by Mayor Brown - especially one coming from a "liberal" think tank doing work on climate change!
Nope. Brown had a year and a half to get this organized - something his administration applied for. When Curry got in in 2015, none of the groundwork or planning was done. They did make an effort on it initially, but pulled out it in favor of other priorities. In hindsight it would have been good to keep it, but it would have been even better if the guy whose inititiative it actually was had made a real go of it.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 06, 2017, 02:19:54 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 06, 2017, 01:55:47 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 06, 2017, 01:44:25 PM
QuoteIn 2013, the Rockefeller Foundation-supported nonprofit 100 Resilient Cities selected Jacksonville to receive a $1 million grant to identify and protect itself from possible hazards, like hurricanes or severe storms. Jacksonville abandoned the program after the administration and the city council deadlocked over which official should lead the effort and how much it would cost.
The city never got a dime.
^ sorry but no Tac. Mayor Curry abandoned the program, as he wanted nothing to do with something initiated by Mayor Brown - especially one coming from a "liberal" think tank doing work on climate change!
Nope. Brown had a year and a half to get this organized - something his administration applied for. When Curry got in in 2015, none of the groundwork or planning was done. They did make an effort on it initially, but pulled out it in favor of other priorities. In hindsight it would have been good to keep it, but it would have been even better if the guy whose inititiative it actually was had made a real go of it.
Agreed.
What a P.O.S. sensationalized article, typical of our friends at the Times. Wait, is it breaking news that there is flooding in Florida? As a kid, Bayshore Boulevard would be under water for a heavy rain in Tampa, as did parts of Pinellas and Pasco. What is Tampa doing about its flooding issues? Parts of Pinellas are literally below sea level. I find this piece so sensational. Irma caused a lot of damage due to the path of the storm pushing all this water north to the bend in the river where it had nowhere to go while it dumped tons of rain into the river basin.
Quote from: FlaBoy on October 06, 2017, 03:25:36 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 06, 2017, 02:19:54 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 06, 2017, 01:55:47 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 06, 2017, 01:44:25 PM
QuoteIn 2013, the Rockefeller Foundation-supported nonprofit 100 Resilient Cities selected Jacksonville to receive a $1 million grant to identify and protect itself from possible hazards, like hurricanes or severe storms. Jacksonville abandoned the program after the administration and the city council deadlocked over which official should lead the effort and how much it would cost.
The city never got a dime.
^ sorry but no Tac. Mayor Curry abandoned the program, as he wanted nothing to do with something initiated by Mayor Brown - especially one coming from a "liberal" think tank doing work on climate change!
Nope. Brown had a year and a half to get this organized - something his administration applied for. When Curry got in in 2015, none of the groundwork or planning was done. They did make an effort on it initially, but pulled out it in favor of other priorities. In hindsight it would have been good to keep it, but it would have been even better if the guy whose inititiative it actually was had made a real go of it.
Agreed.
What a P.O.S. sensationalized article, typical of our friends at the Times. Wait, is it breaking news that there is flooding in Florida? As a kid, Bayshore Boulevard would be under water for a heavy rain in Tampa, as did parts of Pinellas and Pasco. What is Tampa doing about its flooding issues? Parts of Pinellas are literally below sea level. I find this piece so sensational. Irma caused a lot of damage due to the path of the storm pushing all this water north to the bend in the river where it had nowhere to go while it dumped tons of rain into the river basin.
Well, we do have a flooding problem and got historic damage even from a minor hurricane. The noreaster last weekend also caused flooding in some of the areas already hit by Irma. This is a problem that will only get worse.
It's true that we have a history of not investing enough in our urban core and African-American neighborhoods. We need to do more and better.
Quote from: FlaBoy on October 06, 2017, 03:25:36 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 06, 2017, 02:19:54 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 06, 2017, 01:55:47 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 06, 2017, 01:44:25 PM
QuoteIn 2013, the Rockefeller Foundation-supported nonprofit 100 Resilient Cities selected Jacksonville to receive a $1 million grant to identify and protect itself from possible hazards, like hurricanes or severe storms. Jacksonville abandoned the program after the administration and the city council deadlocked over which official should lead the effort and how much it would cost.
The city never got a dime.
^ sorry but no Tac. Mayor Curry abandoned the program, as he wanted nothing to do with something initiated by Mayor Brown - especially one coming from a "liberal" think tank doing work on climate change!
Nope. Brown had a year and a half to get this organized - something his administration applied for. When Curry got in in 2015, none of the groundwork or planning was done. They did make an effort on it initially, but pulled out it in favor of other priorities. In hindsight it would have been good to keep it, but it would have been even better if the guy whose inititiative it actually was had made a real go of it.
Agreed.
What a P.O.S. sensationalized article, typical of our friends at the Times. Wait, is it breaking news that there is flooding in Florida? As a kid, Bayshore Boulevard would be under water for a heavy rain in Tampa, as did parts of Pinellas and Pasco. What is Tampa doing about its flooding issues? Parts of Pinellas are literally below sea level. I find this piece so sensational. Irma caused a lot of damage due to the path of the storm pushing all this water north to the bend in the river where it had nowhere to go while it dumped tons of rain into the river basin.
Surely literally being below sea level is something that Pinellas Co can't really help. But Jax isn't below sea level and shouldn't have these issue. If you look at the closing sentence, it is meant to illustrate what a bit of investment can do.
And regardless of how 'bad' things may be elsewhere in the state, it doesn't change the fact that Jax is bad and shouldn't be as bad as it is. And the impetus for this story might've been the fact that Jax flooded really, really badly when it wasn't even hit by the hurricane.
I actually think the article underplayed our exposure. If you look at flood potentials from rising seas on government web sites, Jax is regularly cited as one of the most exposed cities in the US to sea level rising. No doubt, if the same water level rises occur due to other factors, such as a hurricane or northeaster, such exposure would be similar.
I can say from some 30 years of observation, the St. Johns definitely is higher, perhaps 6 to 12 inches. The article didn't factor that in either. Add any future rises and flooding could be far worse than even what we just saw.
The fact that so much of Jax is built on low lying land really can't be fixed by drainage improvements alone, if at all. At some point, some developed land needs to be returned to wetlands. Just ask Houston how that might help.
The other thing that needs to change is buildings and infrastructure of the future need to be elevated far more. Maybe our building codes and infrastructure standards need to change to get this done. What happened downtown to modern buildings like Wells Fargo and the Hyatt, given the value and sophistication of the buildings, is really inexcusable and professionally negligent in my opinion.
"Nope. Brown had a year and a half to get this organized - something his administration applied for. When Curry got in in 2015, none of the groundwork or planning was done. They did make an effort on it initially, but pulled out it in favor of other priorities. In hindsight it would have been good to keep it, but it would have been even better if the guy whose inititiative it actually was had made a real go of it."
They pulled out in favor of other priorities. Please give some details, Tacachale. I assume you work in city government so you fill us in on what was given priority and what specifically has been done.
Honestly, $1 million would do almost nothing for a city this size. Our current leadership (Curry and Scott) have adopted the official Republican position: ignore it.
Quote from: MusicMan on October 07, 2017, 10:28:44 AM
"Nope. Brown had a year and a half to get this organized - something his administration applied for. When Curry got in in 2015, none of the groundwork or planning was done. They did make an effort on it initially, but pulled out it in favor of other priorities. In hindsight it would have been good to keep it, but it would have been even better if the guy whose inititiative it actually was had made a real go of it."
They pulled out in favor of other priorities. Please give some details, Tacachale. I assume you work in city government so you fill us in on what was given priority and what specifically has been done.
Honestly, $1 million would do almost nothing for a city this size. Our current leadership (Curry and Scott) have adopted the official Republican position: ignore it.
I don't work in city government. I do read the news. Here is a story about it.
http://news.wjct.org/post/jacksonville-drops-out-rockefeller-foundations-100-resilient-cities
Perfect timing Tampa.....I wonder if this has ANYTHING to do with Amazon looking for HQ2? Tampa...well played! So next week, we'll get an article about Miami several flooding issues. Then Orlando...then Atlanta....goes on and goes on. Why else would Tampa bash another Florida city? (Jags vs Buds Rivalry maybe?!?!) lol I'm just stating my opinion...
Quote from: BossmanOdum10 on October 07, 2017, 12:24:08 PM
Perfect timing Tampa.....I wonder if this has ANYTHING to do with Amazon looking for HQ2? Tampa...well played! So next week, we'll get an article about Miami several flooding issues. Then Orlando...then Atlanta....goes on and goes on. Why else would Tampa bash another Florida city? (Jags vs Buds Rivalry maybe?!?!) lol I'm just stating my opinion...
You might want to loosen your tinfoil hat.
It is about priorities. Love the new scoreboards. Pretty sure COJ pumped over $30 million into that.
Infrastructure issues, not so much. No going back at this point. Must go forward.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 07, 2017, 10:42:39 AM
Quote from: MusicMan on October 07, 2017, 10:28:44 AM
"Nope. Brown had a year and a half to get this organized - something his administration applied for. When Curry got in in 2015, none of the groundwork or planning was done. They did make an effort on it initially, but pulled out it in favor of other priorities. In hindsight it would have been good to keep it, but it would have been even better if the guy whose inititiative it actually was had made a real go of it."
They pulled out in favor of other priorities. Please give some details, Tacachale. I assume you work in city government so you fill us in on what was given priority and what specifically has been done.
Honestly, $1 million would do almost nothing for a city this size. Our current leadership (Curry and Scott) have adopted the official Republican position: ignore it.
I don't work in city government. I do read the news. Here is a story about it.
http://news.wjct.org/post/jacksonville-drops-out-rockefeller-foundations-100-resilient-cities
The link doesn't lend any credence to the contention that Brown dropped the ball, only that Curry was going to pursue it and then choose not to or later choose to ignored it.
Quote from: sanmarcomatt on October 07, 2017, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: Adam White on October 07, 2017, 12:32:53 PM
Quote from: BossmanOdum10 on October 07, 2017, 12:24:08 PM
Perfect timing Tampa.....I wonder if this has ANYTHING to do with Amazon looking for HQ2? Tampa...well played! So next week, we'll get an article about Miami several flooding issues. Then Orlando...then Atlanta....goes on and goes on. Why else would Tampa bash another Florida city? (Jags vs Buds Rivalry maybe?!?!) lol I'm just stating my opinion...
You might want to loosen your tinfoil hat.
No tinfoil hat here but the article is odd. Irma takes a late turn to the east or TB is likely screwed.
Maybe they were just bitter about this article?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/health/environment/tampa-bay-climate-change/?utm_term=.4c4a682120fa
You guys make me sad.
Quote from: vicupstate on October 07, 2017, 04:05:52 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 07, 2017, 10:42:39 AM
Quote from: MusicMan on October 07, 2017, 10:28:44 AM
"Nope. Brown had a year and a half to get this organized - something his administration applied for. When Curry got in in 2015, none of the groundwork or planning was done. They did make an effort on it initially, but pulled out it in favor of other priorities. In hindsight it would have been good to keep it, but it would have been even better if the guy whose inititiative it actually was had made a real go of it."
They pulled out in favor of other priorities. Please give some details, Tacachale. I assume you work in city government so you fill us in on what was given priority and what specifically has been done.
Honestly, $1 million would do almost nothing for a city this size. Our current leadership (Curry and Scott) have adopted the official Republican position: ignore it.
I don't work in city government. I do read the news. Here is a story about it.
http://news.wjct.org/post/jacksonville-drops-out-rockefeller-foundations-100-resilient-cities
The link doesn't lend any credence to the contention that Brown dropped the ball, only that Curry was going to pursue it and then choose not to or later choose to ignored it.
That was two years after the Brown administration applied for the grant and then failed to make the necessary plans for it.
It's funny for a city that has flooding issues Everytime the wind blows the wrong way to call us out. What a joke.
We receive the highest surge ever recorded and some areas flood... Shocking. Less shocking is that most of the areas that flooded are built on reclaimed river or marshland ::)
Great article. I loved it. Social equity, in regards to infrastructure investment is a big problem that most cities (including both Jax and Tampa) have long ignored. Hopefully, we can address our problems to the fullest before he get hit directly.
I think the social inequality aspect is right on. I'm not sure who's administration is at fault, but the poorer sections of town have definitely been shortchanged. Basic drainage is something well within the ability of a City Government.
However, they do glaze over the River rising. If the river spills it's banks, nothing short of constructing levee's on either side of the river for the length of it is going to help that scenario. I have no idea if the river has risen materially. If it has, then this is something that likely will have to be funded by Uncle Sam.
You guys are priceless. This isn't a city "calling out another city". And it's investigative journalism. Your need to look for a conspiracy theory or motive to explain this is embarrassing.
COJ could likely solve (or at least minimize) a lot of the flooding issues in low income neighborhoods with CDBG money. The City gets millions and millions in dollars of federal CDBG money every year and struggles to properly administer it. I used to manage Atlantic Beach's CDBG projects and was able to get around $1 million to improve drainage in a low income neighborhood off Mayport Road. This was money well above and beyond what COJ was required to give us (as part of a local interlocal agreement). COJ was looking for signature projects to be able to tout as successes to feds, so we got leftover CDBG funds for our project. Our project has been completed and solved flooding issues in an area that routinely flooded.
COJ could easily craft a long term plan to utilize a portion of it's annual CDBG funds on drainage projects in low income neighborhoods (the only place CDBG funds can be spent anyways). However, I'm not sure if the community groups and non-profits that rely on CDBG funds would allow that to happen.
Quote from: sanmarcomatt on October 07, 2017, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: Adam White on October 07, 2017, 12:32:53 PM
Quote from: BossmanOdum10 on October 07, 2017, 12:24:08 PM
Perfect timing Tampa.....I wonder if this has ANYTHING to do with Amazon looking for HQ2? Tampa...well played! So next week, we'll get an article about Miami several flooding issues. Then Orlando...then Atlanta....goes on and goes on. Why else would Tampa bash another Florida city? (Jags vs Buds Rivalry maybe?!?!) lol I'm just stating my opinion...
You might want to loosen your tinfoil hat.
No tinfoil hat here but the article is odd. Irma takes a late turn to the east or TB is likely screwed.
Maybe they were just bitter about this article?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/health/environment/tampa-bay-climate-change/?utm_term=.4c4a682120fa
The Times has been angling for quite some time to be a statewide paper....and with the highest circulation in Florida, they are on the way.
In that guise, they often do stories on other areas of the state. I see nothing wrong with them writing the article.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 07, 2017, 06:25:02 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on October 07, 2017, 04:05:52 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 07, 2017, 10:42:39 AM
Quote from: MusicMan on October 07, 2017, 10:28:44 AM
"Nope. Brown had a year and a half to get this organized - something his administration applied for. When Curry got in in 2015, none of the groundwork or planning was done. They did make an effort on it initially, but pulled out it in favor of other priorities. In hindsight it would have been good to keep it, but it would have been even better if the guy whose inititiative it actually was had made a real go of it."
They pulled out in favor of other priorities. Please give some details, Tacachale. I assume you work in city government so you fill us in on what was given priority and what specifically has been done.
Honestly, $1 million would do almost nothing for a city this size. Our current leadership (Curry and Scott) have adopted the official Republican position: ignore it.
I don't work in city government. I do read the news. Here is a story about it.
http://news.wjct.org/post/jacksonville-drops-out-rockefeller-foundations-100-resilient-cities
The link doesn't lend any credence to the contention that Brown dropped the ball, only that Curry was going to pursue it and then choose not to or later choose to ignored it.
That was two years after the Brown administration applied for the grant and then failed to make the necessary plans for it.
they applied for the grant in 2013 - when was it awarded?
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 09, 2017, 03:23:02 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 07, 2017, 06:25:02 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on October 07, 2017, 04:05:52 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 07, 2017, 10:42:39 AM
Quote from: MusicMan on October 07, 2017, 10:28:44 AM
"Nope. Brown had a year and a half to get this organized - something his administration applied for. When Curry got in in 2015, none of the groundwork or planning was done. They did make an effort on it initially, but pulled out it in favor of other priorities. In hindsight it would have been good to keep it, but it would have been even better if the guy whose inititiative it actually was had made a real go of it."
They pulled out in favor of other priorities. Please give some details, Tacachale. I assume you work in city government so you fill us in on what was given priority and what specifically has been done.
Honestly, $1 million would do almost nothing for a city this size. Our current leadership (Curry and Scott) have adopted the official Republican position: ignore it.
I don't work in city government. I do read the news. Here is a story about it.
http://news.wjct.org/post/jacksonville-drops-out-rockefeller-foundations-100-resilient-cities
The link doesn't lend any credence to the contention that Brown dropped the ball, only that Curry was going to pursue it and then choose not to or later choose to ignored it.
That was two years after the Brown administration applied for the grant and then failed to make the necessary plans for it.
they applied for the grant in 2013 - when was it awarded?
We were selected in December 2013.
http://www.coj.net/departments/public-affairs/headlines/jacksonville-tapped-as-inaugural-city-in-100-resil
Quote from: CityLife on October 09, 2017, 02:49:29 PM
COJ could likely solve (or at least minimize) a lot of the flooding issues in low income neighborhoods with CDBG money. The City gets millions and millions in dollars of federal CDBG money every year and struggles to properly administer it. I used to manage Atlantic Beach's CDBG projects and was able to get around $1 million to improve drainage in a low income neighborhood off Mayport Road. This was money well above and beyond what COJ was required to give us (as part of a local interlocal agreement). COJ was looking for signature projects to be able to tout as successes to feds, so we got leftover CDBG funds for our project. Our project has been completed and solved flooding issues in an area that routinely flooded.
COJ could easily craft a long term plan to utilize a portion of it's annual CDBG funds on drainage projects in low income neighborhoods (the only place CDBG funds can be spent anyways). However, I'm not sure if the community groups and non-profits that rely on CDBG funds would allow that to happen.
That could be a good idea. Any planning, really, would be an improvement over the situation we've got now.
Quote from: sanmarcomatt on October 09, 2017, 03:31:12 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 09, 2017, 03:20:48 PM
Quote from: sanmarcomatt on October 07, 2017, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: Adam White on October 07, 2017, 12:32:53 PM
Quote from: BossmanOdum10 on October 07, 2017, 12:24:08 PM
Perfect timing Tampa.....I wonder if this has ANYTHING to do with Amazon looking for HQ2? Tampa...well played! So next week, we'll get an article about Miami several flooding issues. Then Orlando...then Atlanta....goes on and goes on. Why else would Tampa bash another Florida city? (Jags vs Buds Rivalry maybe?!?!) lol I'm just stating my opinion...
You might want to loosen your tinfoil hat.
No tinfoil hat here but the article is odd. Irma takes a late turn to the east or TB is likely screwed.
Maybe they were just bitter about this article?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/health/environment/tampa-bay-climate-change/?utm_term=.4c4a682120fa
The Times has been angling for quite some time to be a statewide paper....and with the highest circulation in Florida, they are on the way.
In that guise, they often do stories on other areas of the state. I see nothing wrong with them writing the article.
Ok, that makes sense. With how worthless the FTU is, I guess I don't blame them for going after Jax.
The disaster was also statewide and the way it affected Jacksonville could affect the Bay Area similarly in the future. They got lucky that the damage wasn't worse this time (and we got unlucky). There's probably also a certain element of finding bad news about competitor cities, but it's a legit thing to write a story about.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 09, 2017, 03:50:10 PM
Quote from: CityLife on October 09, 2017, 02:49:29 PM
COJ could likely solve (or at least minimize) a lot of the flooding issues in low income neighborhoods with CDBG money. The City gets millions and millions in dollars of federal CDBG money every year and struggles to properly administer it. I used to manage Atlantic Beach's CDBG projects and was able to get around $1 million to improve drainage in a low income neighborhood off Mayport Road. This was money well above and beyond what COJ was required to give us (as part of a local interlocal agreement). COJ was looking for signature projects to be able to tout as successes to feds, so we got leftover CDBG funds for our project. Our project has been completed and solved flooding issues in an area that routinely flooded.
COJ could easily craft a long term plan to utilize a portion of it's annual CDBG funds on drainage projects in low income neighborhoods (the only place CDBG funds can be spent anyways). However, I'm not sure if the community groups and non-profits that rely on CDBG funds would allow that to happen.
That could be a good idea. Any planning, really, would be an improvement over the situation we've got now.
Quote from: sanmarcomatt on October 09, 2017, 03:31:12 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 09, 2017, 03:20:48 PM
Quote from: sanmarcomatt on October 07, 2017, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: Adam White on October 07, 2017, 12:32:53 PM
Quote from: BossmanOdum10 on October 07, 2017, 12:24:08 PM
Perfect timing Tampa.....I wonder if this has ANYTHING to do with Amazon looking for HQ2? Tampa...well played! So next week, we'll get an article about Miami several flooding issues. Then Orlando...then Atlanta....goes on and goes on. Why else would Tampa bash another Florida city? (Jags vs Buds Rivalry maybe?!?!) lol I'm just stating my opinion...
You might want to loosen your tinfoil hat.
No tinfoil hat here but the article is odd. Irma takes a late turn to the east or TB is likely screwed.
Maybe they were just bitter about this article?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/health/environment/tampa-bay-climate-change/?utm_term=.4c4a682120fa
The Times has been angling for quite some time to be a statewide paper....and with the highest circulation in Florida, they are on the way.
In that guise, they often do stories on other areas of the state. I see nothing wrong with them writing the article.
Ok, that makes sense. With how worthless the FTU is, I guess I don't blame them for going after Jax.
The disaster was also statewide and the way it affected Jacksonville could affect the Bay Area similarly in the future. They got lucky that the damage wasn't worse this time (and we got unlucky). There's probably also a certain element of finding bad news about competitor cities, but it's a legit thing to write a story about.
The flooding in Jacksonville made the international press. It was some of the most visually jarring footage from the hurricane (for the state of Florida). It was kind of a big deal. And when you consider that Jax wasn't hit by the hurricane, it's an even bigger deal. I can see why this prompted a newspaper to do an investigation. And, to mirror Sanmarcomatt's comments, this is rightly something the FTU should've done - but that would be expecting far too much of them.
^The Times-Union ran many stories on Irma and its aftermath. Nate Monroe especially did a very good job on it. For whatever reason, those weren't the articles linked here.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 10, 2017, 08:11:27 AM
^The Times-Union ran many stories on Irma and its aftermath. Nate Monroe especially did a very good job on it. For whatever reason, those weren't the articles linked here.
Did the TU do stories about the gov't not funding necessary infrastructural work (in the wake of the flooding)? Honest question - I have no idea.
I do infrastructure work. A million dollars is really not much money, by the time you pay the engineers, hire a contractor and inspectors it really won't go very far. But still, the city could always use any amount of money.
The city is basically a wholly owned subsidiary of the Police and Fire Department and their pensions, that is where all of the money goes. The city has not spent hardly anything for capital improvements for years, they just don't have the funds. The Better Jacksonville Plan still has to pay off the bonds, so anything big will be years away.
I also agree on the money needs to be spent on inter-city neighborhoods. Highest on the list is the replacement of septic tanks, which don't help the river and better drainage in these areas. Old areas have smaller pipes or no pipes so it tends to flood in a hard rain, just like downtown St. Augustine.
QuoteThe city is basically a wholly owned subsidiary of the Police and Fire Department and their pensions, that is where all of the money goes. The city has not spent hardly anything for capital improvements for years, they just don't have the funds. The Better Jacksonville Plan still has to pay off the bonds, so anything big will be years away.
Once the BJP bonds are paid off those funds go to the Pension as well.
Here is an interesting comparison of debt service, pension costs and other post-employment benefit expenses (OPEB in accounting terms) among cities with populations exceeding 500,000. These numbers represent a rolling average calculated over the past three fiscal years (so, the current FY that starts this month would not be included)
As you can see, about a third of the general fund goes to legacy costs and debt service. Unfortunately, even though the economy is roaring... ad valorum tax revenue hasn't exactly been growing by leaps and bounds in Jax. Given that scenario, without maxing out the city credit card (IE taking on more bond debt) there isn't a large pot of money that would beef up the Capital Improvements Projects (CIP) budget, which is where you would find money for infrastructure construction. A former poster here used to erroneously argue that this was simply made up and false math :/
With the pension/sales tax plan passed by voters last year, there is some temporary relief and money freed up over the next few years (and the current CIP reflects in increase in infrastructure spending as such) based on re-amortizing the payoff schedule of pension costs. But that isn't necessarily 'new money', just a reorganization that puts off future expense until which time when BJP bonds get paid off and the 1/2 cent sales tax would then fund that debt service related to pension payouts.
(https://plot.ly/~governing/923.png)
Quote from: Transman on October 10, 2017, 09:04:18 AM
I do infrastructure work. A million dollars is really not much money, by the time you pay the engineers, hire a contractor and inspectors it really won't go very far. But still, the city could always use any amount of money.
1 million dollars is nothing on the overall scale of what COJ needs to reduce flooding issues in low income neighborhoods. I was simply pointing out that we used CDBG funds to solve flooding issues in a low income neighborhood in Atlantic Beach. COJ gets far more than 1 million a year in federal CDBG money though. I don't know the exact number off the top of my head, but would guess its north of $25 million a year. A lot of non-profits, CDC's, and community groups rely on the funding, but it is also able to be used for municipal projects. COJ could easily craft a long term plan to allocate CDBG funds, along with other grant funds and general fund money towards targeted drainage improvements.
Instead of doing a piece mail approach, the city could issue an RFP for a comprehensive drainage management plan in the neighborhoods that are eligible for CDBG funding (the money can only be used in low income census tracts). Then create a 10 year plan to allocate CDBG funds towards the projects based on level of urgency.
If the TU or Times would go back and evaluate the City's management of it's CDBG funds, it would probably find that the amount of wasted or misused money could have already made many of the necessary improvements.
Quote from: CityLife on October 10, 2017, 01:02:51 PM
Quote from: Transman on October 10, 2017, 09:04:18 AM
I do infrastructure work. A million dollars is really not much money, by the time you pay the engineers, hire a contractor and inspectors it really won't go very far. But still, the city could always use any amount of money.
1 million dollars is nothing on the overall scale of what COJ needs to reduce flooding issues in low income neighborhoods. I was simply pointing out that we used CDBG funds to solve flooding issues in a low income neighborhood in Atlantic Beach. COJ gets far more than 1 million a year in federal CDBG money though. I don't know the exact number off the top of my head, but would guess its north of $25 million a year. A lot of non-profits, CDC's, and community groups rely on the funding, but it is also able to be used for municipal projects. COJ could easily craft a long term plan to allocate CDBG funds, along with other grant funds and general fund money towards targeted drainage improvements.
Instead of doing a piece mail approach, the city could issue an RFP for a comprehensive drainage management plan in the neighborhoods that are eligible for CDBG funding (the money can only be used in low income census tracts). Then create a 10 year plan to allocate CDBG funds towards the projects based on level of urgency.
If the TU or Times would go back and evaluate the City's management of it's CDBG funds, it would probably find that the amount of wasted or misused money could have already made many of the necessary improvements.
Yes, a lot of COJ's CBDG money goes to a little more than four dozen non-profits... people like Sulzbacher Center, Five Star Veterans Center, Changing Homelessness Catholic Charities, Salvation Army, etc for homeless services... Jax Chamber for entrepreneurial development programs in low income neighborhoods... River Region, Lutheran Social Service, NE Florida AIDS Network, etc for infectious disease care/addiction care... to name a few.
Then the City uses it for home stabilization programs, like the Mortgage Foreclosure Registry (foreclosure and property abandonment), 'neighborhood stabilization' efforts like the demolition of 125 residential and commercial structures last year, rent assistance, etc.. the Parks Department gets a chunk (some directed to Hogans Creek Greenway, some goes to the Riverwalk- as examples)... Fire Dept got money for two new hook/ladder trucks... Public Works gets money for ADA compliant retrofits of sidewalks... and so on.
Downtown Vision got $55k in CDBG money this FY.
I believe there was about $11mm-$12mm in FY2016, but don't quote me on that.
CBDG has a perilous future depending on what President Trump does to future federal budgets.
Something that purely probably only interests me and and me alone... but in the past, CBDG money was used for things like the construction of the Jacksonville Landing and Metro Park.
Quote from: fieldafm on October 10, 2017, 02:06:41 PM
Quote from: CityLife on October 10, 2017, 01:02:51 PM
Quote from: Transman on October 10, 2017, 09:04:18 AM
I do infrastructure work. A million dollars is really not much money, by the time you pay the engineers, hire a contractor and inspectors it really won't go very far. But still, the city could always use any amount of money.
1 million dollars is nothing on the overall scale of what COJ needs to reduce flooding issues in low income neighborhoods. I was simply pointing out that we used CDBG funds to solve flooding issues in a low income neighborhood in Atlantic Beach. COJ gets far more than 1 million a year in federal CDBG money though. I don't know the exact number off the top of my head, but would guess its north of $25 million a year. A lot of non-profits, CDC's, and community groups rely on the funding, but it is also able to be used for municipal projects. COJ could easily craft a long term plan to allocate CDBG funds, along with other grant funds and general fund money towards targeted drainage improvements.
Instead of doing a piece mail approach, the city could issue an RFP for a comprehensive drainage management plan in the neighborhoods that are eligible for CDBG funding (the money can only be used in low income census tracts). Then create a 10 year plan to allocate CDBG funds towards the projects based on level of urgency.
If the TU or Times would go back and evaluate the City's management of it's CDBG funds, it would probably find that the amount of wasted or misused money could have already made many of the necessary improvements.
Yes, a lot of COJ's CBDG money goes to a little more than four dozen non-profits... people like Sulzbacher Center, Five Star Veterans Center, Changing Homelessness Catholic Charities, Salvation Army, etc for homeless services... Jax Chamber for entrepreneurial development programs in low income neighborhoods... River Region, Lutheran Social Service, NE Florida AIDS Network, etc for infectious disease care/addiction care... to name a few.
Then the City uses it for home stabilization programs, like the Mortgage Foreclosure Registry (foreclosure and property abandonment), 'neighborhood stabilization' efforts like the demolition of 125 residential and commercial structures last year, rent assistance, etc.. the Parks Department gets a chunk (some directed to Hogans Creek Greenway, some goes to the Riverwalk- as examples)... Fire Dept got money for two new hook/ladder trucks... Public Works gets money for ADA compliant retrofits of sidewalks... and so on.
Downtown Vision got $55k in CDBG money this FY.
I believe there was about $11mm-$12mm in FY2016, but don't quote me on that.
CBDG has a perilous future depending on what President Trump does to future federal budgets.
Something that purely probably only interests me and and me alone... but in the past, CBDG money was used for things like the construction of the Jacksonville Landing and Metro Park.
He is more than capable of speaking for himself, but I think CityLife's main point was that even though the General Budget faces challenges, there are ways to reallocate various funding sources to try to attack these chronic infrastructure problems if in fact this was a top priority for the City. There is no magic bullet or quick fix, and if $1mm falls out of the air this year-that doesn't come close to scratching the paint on this SUV-sized problem.... but as the Times article suggests, decades of kicking the can down the road clearly shows that infrastructure hasn't been a priority in our local municipal budgets for a very long time. Former Mayor Delaney (my personal favorite elected official of my lifetime) even admits as such in the article, implicating his own administration as one of several administrations responsible for the present-day malaise (and that's saying a lot as the Delaney years included the windfall from the Better Jacksonvllle Plan).
^More or less the point. There is a clear non-general fund source that can be used to help combat the issue. After doing a quick google search, it appears the City has used some of its CDBG funds in the past to improve drainage at the neighborhood level.
https://archives.hud.gov/offices/cpd/communitydevelopment/cdbg30/fl/award.cfm
It would be interesting to see what type of solutions creative engineers could come up with if the City really tries to tackle the issue. Perhaps there are opportunities to convert vacant/underutilized properties or city parkland into wetlands or retention ponds. What about COJ forming an ad hoc committee of engineers, environmental scientists, advocates, and community leaders to identify issues and challenges, then issue an RFP for the design?
One option would be to raise the millage rate back to what it once was before City leaders unwisely reduced it thinking "surpluses" (a debatable position given the underfunded pensions and infrastructure deterioration we now see) from good times would last forever.
You get what you pay for and Jax is more focused on being a low tax haven than investing in its community to build our quality of life. The irony is money wisely invested should put us way ahead vs. giving the average property owner $100 to $300 back each year that won't change their standard of living in the same way the City could with that money.
Resistance to tax increases showed again in the "pay much more later" solution implemented in order not to raise taxes now regarding the pension issues. Our future sacrificed. We never learn.
This is the story of Jax for the last 100+ years and why we aren't were most people think we could/should be today. Any successful business person will tell you that you can't under-invest if you want to survive and thrive. Compounding under-investing, is that many of the precious few investments we have made like LaVilla, the Landing, the Stadium, the Convention Center and the Courthouse have not been handled well and have offered little to no return on investment to our citizens.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on October 10, 2017, 11:15:58 PM
One option would be to raise the millage rate back to what it once was before City leaders unwisely reduced it thinking "surpluses" (a debatable position given the underfunded pensions and infrastructure deterioration we now see) from good times would last forever.
You get what you pay for and Jax is more focused on being a low tax haven than investing in its community to build our quality of life. The irony is money wisely invested should put us way ahead vs. giving the average property owner $100 to $300 back each year that won't change their standard of living in the same way the City could with that money.
Resistance to tax increases showed again in the "pay much more later" solution implemented in order not to raise taxes now regarding the pension issues. Our future sacrificed. We never learn.
This is the story of Jax for the last 100+ years and why we aren't were most people think we could/should be today. Any successful business person will tell you that you can't under-invest if you want to survive and thrive. Compounding under-investing, is that many of the precious few investments we have made like LaVilla, the Landing, the Stadium, the Convention Center and the Courthouse have not been handled well and have offered little to no return on investment to our citizens.
The idea that our millage rate is lower than in our past is a myth. The current millage rate is as high as it's been since the early 90s. Tax rates are also naturally lower (officially) in the bedroom counties that are already absorbing most of the metro area's growth. Point being, increasing the millage rate isn't just a matter of undoing past cuts, it's adding to what many in town see as a burden. It's certainly not an easy fix in our cultural climate.
^Tough comparison to make though. A lot of homes in suburban counties pay HOA's, which reduce parks, recreation, and r.o.w maintenance costs for the county. Also, SJC receives a substantial amount of tax dollars from impact fees. Developers pay $14k in impact fees towards roads, schools, fire, etc for new homes, which are then passed on to home owners. Essentially a front loaded tax. When you factor in the impact fees and HOA costs, I think you'd find that the average homeowner in SJC effectively pays more for public services.
Quote from: CityLife on October 11, 2017, 02:15:03 PM
^Tough comparison to make though. A lot of homes in suburban counties pay HOA's, which reduce parks, recreation, and r.o.w maintenance costs for the county. Also, SJC receives a substantial amount of tax dollars from impact fees. Developers pay $14k in impact fees towards roads, schools, fire, etc for new homes, which are then passed on to home owners. Essentially a front loaded tax. When you factor in the impact fees and HOA costs, I think you'd find that the average homeowner in SJC effectively pays more for public services.
100% correct. Still, it's a common refrain from the counties and people moving there that they're getting lower taxes than in Jacksonville as the additional costs are buried.
The anti-Jax people have gotten aroused because of that out of town news... The pot calling the kettle black is the best way to look at this 'objective news'.
IMO, neither city needs to put their heads in the sand. I'm sure the majority of our coastal cities have done very little to invest in upgrading infrastructure in their vulnerable areas. We all have a ton of work to do.
On coastal areas, I think, the COJ and FDOT plan is to have improvement plans ready to go then after the area is declared a disaster area, FEMA will pay for the cost of the improvements. Not sure if that is correct.
The COJ just does not have the funds to really do anything with big impacts. The drainage tax is just band-aid fixes. It's all about what the priorities are for the city and let's face it infrastructure maintenance or construction is not sexy politically. Pipes and drainage ditches don't vote. The money really needs to go to the older sections of town, think Hogan Creek area, and other areas that were built long ago. Same with the septic tanks. The septic tank removal is number one on my list, anything to help the River. Lots of work to do, but not the will to do it.