Due to delays in getting Miami Central constructed, Brightline has announced a delay in service.
Per the Real Deal:
https://therealdeal.com/miami/2017/07/01/all-aboard-florida-delays-brightline-launch/ (https://therealdeal.com/miami/2017/07/01/all-aboard-florida-delays-brightline-launch/)
All Aboard Florida delays Brightline launch
(https://s13.therealdeal.com/trd/m/up/2017/05/brightline-train.jpg)
All Aboard Florida has delayed the startup of its Brightline passenger train service. The Brightline service had been scheduled to start between Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach in August and to include service to Miami in September. All Aboard Florida now expects to hold a grand opening for its Brightline rail service sometime in fall. The service is expected to extend from South Florida to Orlando by 2019. Construction work at the Brightline train stations in Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach is nearly finished. The larger station in Miami will take longer to finish. All Aboard Florida officials declined to cite station construction or any other reason for the delayed startup of the Brightline service. The company has encountered a delay in the delivery of its fifth train for the Brightline service. The train, which was supposed to arrive in West Palm Beach this week, is still being finished at a manufacturing plant in Sacramento, California.
Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather hear "delays because the things we're building are taking longer to build than we thought" compared to "delays while we haven't put a single shovel in the ground."
Quote from: marcuscnelson on July 17, 2017, 08:11:47 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather hear "delays because the things we're building are taking longer to build than we thought" compared to "delays while we haven't put a single shovel in the ground."
Now that the lawsuits have been dismissed, it really comes down to financing and the bond sales.
Maybe Brightline should consider a "Jaguars Express" from Daytona/St Augustine to EverBank Field in the interim.
Collect some revenue, get some operating experience, get the bugs out of the trainsets, get some positive PR.
Beats having their investment sitting in a maintenance barn week after week collecting nothing but wax.
Quote from: spuwho on July 18, 2017, 01:19:39 PM
Maybe Brightline should consider a "Jaguars Express" from Daytona/St Augustine to EverBank Field in the interim.
Collect some revenue, get some operating experience, get the bugs out of the trainsets, get some positive PR.
Beats having their investment sitting in a maintenance barn week after week collecting nothing but wax.
There aren't any tracks by Everbank. You'd have to drop them off at like, Amtrak and then get some sort of shuttle from there to downtown.
Unless they build some temporary platform by the convention center or another place, but at that point I'm not sure it's worth it.
I drove down 528 for the first time in a few years this weekend. I noticed that the south side ramps for the new interchange by the poweplant were extra tall and had large openings for what I can only assume is the rail ROW. So I guess the expressway authority is on board.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on July 18, 2017, 03:17:57 PM
Quote from: spuwho on July 18, 2017, 01:19:39 PM
Maybe Brightline should consider a "Jaguars Express" from Daytona/St Augustine to EverBank Field in the interim.
Collect some revenue, get some operating experience, get the bugs out of the trainsets, get some positive PR.
Beats having their investment sitting in a maintenance barn week after week collecting nothing but wax.
There aren't any tracks by Everbank. You'd have to drop them off at like, Amtrak and then get some sort of shuttle from there to downtown.
Unless they build some temporary platform by the convention center or another place, but at that point I'm not sure it's worth it.
Actually Marcus there are several rail facilities around EverBank Stadium. One rail spur goes right into one of the parking lots. They are run by Jaxport Terminal RR (formerly Talleyrand Terminal RR).
Platforms are a small issue, as they can be constructed from wood in a couple of hours. Or you can use the automated wheelchair lift for handicapped that come on all the passenger cars.
Or do what Amtrak does, pull out a set of steps when the train stops.
Quote from: spuwho on July 18, 2017, 04:17:11 PM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on July 18, 2017, 03:17:57 PM
Quote from: spuwho on July 18, 2017, 01:19:39 PM
Maybe Brightline should consider a "Jaguars Express" from Daytona/St Augustine to EverBank Field in the interim.
Collect some revenue, get some operating experience, get the bugs out of the trainsets, get some positive PR.
Beats having their investment sitting in a maintenance barn week after week collecting nothing but wax.
There aren't any tracks by Everbank. You'd have to drop them off at like, Amtrak and then get some sort of shuttle from there to downtown.
Unless they build some temporary platform by the convention center or another place, but at that point I'm not sure it's worth it.
Actually Marcus there are several rail facilities around EverBank Stadium. One rail spur goes right into one of the parking lots. They are run by Jaxport Terminal RR (formerly Talleyrand Terminal RR).
Platforms are a small issue, as they can be constructed from wood in a couple of hours. Or you can use the automated wheelchair lift for handicapped that come on all the passenger cars.
Or do what Amtrak does, pull out a set of steps when the train stops.
Well what do you know, it seems I stand corrected.
So provided JaxPort lets FEC use those tracks, it'll still require temporary stations on both ends, and that's after the tracks get any necessary upgrades to handle passenger/high-speed rail.
I'd personally doubt the cities/counties or even Brightline themselves would really allow platforms "constructed from wood in a couple of hours" to serve as the depots for the type of service they're promoting. By the time you address all the costs and issues that would come with establishing express passenger rail in this area, it still seems like they would be better served by just completely making the deals and plans to construct permanent stations and enable actual full service.
Maybe Curry's $8 million to tear down the courthouse & city hall annex should go to supporting that instead ;)
All you need is a few sets of metal stairs. No need to upgrade tracks. Check out the Hawkeye Express, similar idea.
I can't imagine a Jags Express being financially beneficial to Brightline in any way. Anyone local would be better off driving to the stadium than sitting on a slow moving passenger train switching track through a series of railyards operated by other rail carriers. Also FEC's line ends at Honeymoon Yard, near Beaver Street west of DT, and the S-Line was pulled up years ago. They'd have to run on CSX lines to reach the Commodore Point spur near EverBank Field. Jax just needs to stop ignoring what's happening in South Florida and get active with marketing itself for expansion and St. Augustine/St. Johns County for TOD opportunities. Do that and we'd probably end up with regular service a lot earlier than most of us can imagine.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 18, 2017, 08:56:48 PM
I can't imagine a Jags Express being financially beneficial to Brightline in any way. Anyone local would be better off driving to the stadium than sitting on a slow moving passenger train switching track through a series of railyards operated by other rail carriers. Also FEC's line ends at Honeymoon Yard, near Beaver Street west of DT, and the S-Line was pulled up years ago. They'd have to run on CSX lines to reach the Commodore Point spur near EverBank Field. Jax just needs to stop ignoring what's happening in South Florida and get active with marketing itself for expansion and St. Augustine/St. Johns County for TOD opportunities. Do that and we'd probably end up with regular service a lot earlier than most of us can imagine.
This, right here. Brightline
right now absolutely wouldn't work. We as a city have to actually commit to developing an effective transit system and connected TOD. Making complex, low-quality temporary systems only makes us look bad when it inevitably doesn't work and sets us back even further.
And again, I really wish that instead of tearing down more urban density and leaving almost the entire northbank empty between the Hyatt and Metro Park, we'd put that $8 million into moving towards that goal. It maybe wouldn't be much, but at least a start towards long-term development.
A Jags Express won't work but I do believe Brightline would work just as well here as it would in some of the other Florida cities south of us. With the investment in overhauling the local bus network, investing in BRT, having the Skyway and building the JRTC, locally we have a connected system that will assist with the feasibility of intercity rail. However, we would do ourselves a huge favor by aggressively lobbying for expansion and coordinating our land use policies with existing and future transit corridor. In addition to Brightline, we should be lobbying for Amtrak expansion, and piggybacking local transit initiatives off of both as well.
Like I said, it wouldn't work trying to rush Brightline into an express route here and now. But, I agree with some time and care given to our transit systems, we could turn ourselves into an appealing option for future Brightline, Amtrak and others. Hopefully it'd also open the opportunity to get the ball rolling on light rail as well, in addition to Brightline stations in DT and St. Aug.
Just to level set. My thought is that a Jags Express would be more than just getting there. It would entail a little more experience.
You guys are thinking a little more utilitarian, I am thinking more on the cross marketing opportunities.
Yes, an express would briefly traverse some foreign rail, and so you switch through a few yards, it would still leave in plenty of time for game time. The TV's in the cars can be blasting pregame media, while fans enjoy brewskis or wine or whatever.
Put the Jaguar cheerleaders on there for the ride in, there are plenty of people who would pay money to party with them. Geez, put Terry Bradshaw from Fox or "name network host here" on there in the game run up.
Have Brett Martineau do live feeds from the train as it gets closer to the stadium. (And show it periodically on the scoreboard as part of the countdown to gametime). Have that front engine blast the heck outta that horn when it pulls in. It tells everyone that the game is about to start.
Have corporate sponsors as part of the promotion, we can put temporary ad wrap on the rail cars so every crossing can see who helped pay for it.
It gets people into the rail is possible mindset. Doesnt require any referendums or redeux of train stations.
It will basically function like a passenger charter.
There are lots of other biz details that would go with it. The goal isnt to make a lot of dough, the goal is to market.
A similar approach could be used for the Florida/Georgia game. Except that would be marketed both ways, a cater to Georgia fans as well as Gator fans. A charter from Atlanta, and if Shad gets his hotel at the Shipyards, some good synergy there.
Quote from: spuwho on July 19, 2017, 12:07:01 AM
Just to level set. My thought is that a Jags Express would be more than just getting there. It would entail a little more experience.
True. I think there is something exactly like this up north or in the midwest somewhere...I wanna say Iowa? But I'm not sure. Anyway, it's a gameday train experience for some college team that sells out every time but is more a novelty than it is practical.
Quote from: spuwho on July 19, 2017, 12:07:01 AM
Just to level set. My thought is that a Jags Express would be more than just getting there. It would entail a little more experience.
You guys are thinking a little more utilitarian, I am thinking more on the cross marketing opportunities.
Yes, an express would briefly traverse some foreign rail, and so you switch through a few yards, it would still leave in plenty of time for game time. The TV's in the cars can be blasting pregame media, while fans enjoy brewskis or wine or whatever.
Put the Jaguar cheerleaders on there for the ride in, there are plenty of people who would pay money to party with them. Geez, put Terry Bradshaw from Fox or "name network host here" on there in the game run up.
Have Brett Martineau do live feeds from the train as it gets closer to the stadium. (And show it periodically on the scoreboard as part of the countdown to gametime). Have that front engine blast the heck outta that horn when it pulls in. It tells everyone that the game is about to start.
Have corporate sponsors as part of the promotion, we can put temporary ad wrap on the rail cars so every crossing can see who helped pay for it.
It gets people into the rail is possible mindset. Doesnt require any referendums or redeux of train stations.
It will basically function like a passenger charter.
There are lots of other biz details that would go with it. The goal isnt to make a lot of dough, the goal is to market.
A similar approach could be used for the Florida/Georgia game. Except that would be marketed both ways, a cater to Georgia fans as well as Gator fans. A charter from Atlanta, and if Shad gets his hotel at the Shipyards, some good synergy there.
By the time you've done all that, you might as well just have JTA-based light rail instead of Brightline. It sounds really,
really far out of any of FEC or All Aboard Florida's intentions.
Your plan sounds much more doable if it's trains owned by something like JTA in partnership with Bold Events coming from St. Aug, Green Cove, the Beaches, and wherever else bringing area people to Everbank and then back home later instead of Brightline having to interrupt normal passenger service with the party train every few weeks in the fall and spring.
^I guess this is my perspective. A Jags Express to Everbank Field would be more complicated than them (Brightline) just taking their current business model and extending it on their already owned track to downtown Jax. As described, a Jags Express sounds more logical for someone like San Mary's Railroad. Even then, they'd have to figure out agreements to allow them to operate on track owned by other rail carriers.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 19, 2017, 07:46:46 AM
^I guess this is my perspective. A Jags Express to Everbank Field would be more complicated than them (Brightline) just taking their current business model and extending it on their already owned track to downtown Jax. As described, a Jags Express sounds more logical for someone like San Mary's Railroad. Even then, they'd have to figure out agreements to allow them to operate on track owned by other rail carriers.
Brightline is a Florida entity, so naturally I would look at them first.
But there is nothing to stop someone from contracting with Iowa Pacific to do a charter.
Railroads have long standing rules on carriage that allow agreements to be made. Insurance and liability is usually the stickler in these arrangements.
^Ok, I understand. It just seems that it's quite different from Brightline's business and marketing strategies and I'm not totally grasping why the extra expense would be beneficial to them or if it's remotely possible this season. I mean, they'll be actually operating their regular line this fall anyway.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 19, 2017, 11:38:27 AM
^Ok, I understand. It just seems that it's quite different from Brightline's business and marketing strategies and I'm not totally grasping why the extra expense would be beneficial to them or if it's remotely possible this season. I mean, they'll be actually operating their regular line this fall anyway.
Honestly, I wouldnt be shocked if you see a Phins Express on Sundays from Brightline.
When they were looking at the soccer stadium proposal for the Pier, Brightline threw in an express train offering to the games as a perk.
Using chartered rail for special events is growing. The Kentucky Derby already has several charters that come in for the race and Amtrak even runs a "Derby Express" out of Chicago.
The Passenger Car Owners Association contracts with Amtrak for charters all the time.
Billionnaire Bill Gates wanted to see the US by rail, so he chartered some coaches and they brokered an Amtrak led charter. Thats an extreme situation however.
Most people use Amtrak as the front end because they already have insurance and liability agreements with the carriers.
This is why the Vegas Express between LA and Vegas always fails. They want to use their own trainsets and they cant meet Union Pacific liability requirements.