Hello all,
I'm not from Jacksonville but have been lurking these forums for a while. I am looking to purchase a few homes (Single family, but also open to multi-family) in Jacksonville's Eastside neighborhood.
https://www.google.com/search?q=eastside+jacksonville
I know Springfield is one of the hottest, if not the hottest, neighborhood to buy into but the price increase in the Eastside has been far less which is what attracts me to it. From what I see online using Google Maps, the neighborhood doesn't have much going on besides a few parks. Other than that it's all single family homes, a few barber shops, just 1-2 restaurants, and I believe no actual grocery stores (Though there are 1-2 convenience stores).
That said, it is very close to the Jaguars Stadium, Fair Grounds, and downtown. It is also just about as close as you can get to the Shipyards Project if and when that does happen. I'd be looking to hold long-term so even if nothing happens for the next 5 years, that would be fine.
The homes are not as nice architecturally as Springfield, but the positive to that for me is that I don't have to deal with a historic/preservation agency in SPAR.
I would essentially be rennovating these homes from the inside and then renting them out.
At some point, if zoning permits, I would like to buy land there as well and develop some sort of mixed-use project that has shops/restaurants/retail on the ground floor and then apartments above. But that's a long ways into the future - and no idea if zoning would even allow for it.
TLDR version: So my question is -
Is is worth trying to buy into the Eastside? I know Springfield is doing better now, but is it a wise move going forward.
And is there anything I should know about the neighborhood that would be a strong pro/con for going there (Environmental issues, underlying issues, etc)?
Thanks in advance and I look forward to talking on here.
Welcome to the community.
Given you are thinking long term, it's a pretty good plan. The current lack of anything multi-use, restaurants, retail, etc....opens up the door for just about anyone willing to go first. The further east you go, you the more environmental issues you might encounter given the industrial nature of the area.
I'm short on time or I'd give you some more pro/con details.
Good luck.
It depends entirely on how much of a pioneer you want to be. I've said for years that Eastside is my long bet for a future "next great neighborhood". It has all the things that people like about Riverside, Springfield, and San Marco - cool old homes, urban development pattern and "grit", easy access to downtown and other parts of the Urban Core. When revitalization does come to the Eastside, I think it'll be quicker than it happened in Springfield, as the houses are generally smaller and don't require so much to fix up.
But there are a lot of downsides. The neighborhood is impoverished and depressed. Revitalization will pretty much contingent on Springfield's momentum, and that's been up and down for 20 years. There's very little that's gotten started so far in the Eastside - few of the restaurants, bars and shops that are cropping up in Springfield, not much happening in real estate. Most of the commercial strip on APR There's also a perception that this is a "bad" neighborhood, and that'll have a real effect on renters. I don't see those things changing much in the next 5 years; 10, maybe.
But if your goal is to get in on the ground floor in a really cool neighborhood, this would be an awesome place to do it. I think once the ball starts rolling for Eastside, it'll roll faster than folks expect.
Eastside definitely has potential if the Stadium District there really starts heading in the right direction even without the Shipyards. With the Shipyards and the Stadium District revitalizing, the southern portions of Eastside would see development IMO. I think Eastside, Brentwood, and Lockawana are the areas that could see significant development in the next 10-20 years that are currently off the radar.
Quote from: FlaBoy on June 19, 2017, 05:37:45 PM
Eastside definitely has potential if the Stadium District there really starts heading in the right direction even without the Shipyards. With the Shipyards and the Stadium District revitalizing, the southern portions of Eastside would see development IMO. I think Eastside, Brentwood, and Lockawana are the areas that could see significant development in the next 10-20 years that are currently off the radar.
I always liked Durkeeville and at one time considered trying to buy a house there. One of my best friends in high school lived in Lackawanna - that was back in the 80s. It was pretty rough then. I always assumed it would gentrify, given its proximity to Riverside and Murray Hill.
I think it's a pretty good idea. Are you local now or planning to come?
Thanks to everyone so far for the replies and warm welcome!
This information is extremely useful. It's good to hear that there is potential in spite of some issues.
I'll try to find out more about environmental issues. I am trying to stay West of US-1 and south of East 1st St, which should hopefully allow for that to be avoided. It looks like East of US-1 has a lot of industrial activity.
The fact that it has a bad perception is worrisome, though that should change over time as mentioned. Definitely would have to be a pioneer in many ways, which would be cool though I strongly question my ability to do that lol. I do think the neighborhood should change quick once things catch on, and that the entry price will likely be lower than Springfield. Less regulation from authorities compared to a Historic District, and also smaller home sizes so those that need renovation won't be as costly of a fix as in Springfield.
One odd thing I noticed is that even pieces of land on A. Philip Randolph are zoned single-family residential. I would think everything there should be zoned Commercial or multi-purpose.
I will definitely look at Brentwood/Lackawanna. I've seen some great deals on paper in Brentwood but have overlooked them thus far because I wasn't sure if the area has a lot of potential.
@ProjectMaximus
I'm planning to come in July hopefully. I'm from southern California but prices here are way too high for any sort of respectable return to be earned - $400K minimum for homes in the worst neighborhoods. Though appreciation of one's property value is significant here.
Fyi:
http://floridapolitics.com/archives/229078-lisc-unveils-ambitious-redevelopment-plan-jacksonvilles-eastside
TerraWise, the main new home builder in the Springfield Historic District, is literally running out of lots to build on. They just bought lots outside the historic district, but near by, because of the scarcity/demand. If the Shipyards get started, investment in the Eastside neighborhood will happen *relatively* quickly. People forget SPR was doing extremely well prior to the gigantic housing bubble burst, and has almost returned to that level now.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on June 19, 2017, 08:18:11 PM
Fyi:
http://floridapolitics.com/archives/229078-lisc-unveils-ambitious-redevelopment-plan-jacksonvilles-eastside
TerraWise, the main new home builder in the Springfield Historic District, is literally running out of lots to build on. They just bought lots outside the historic district, but near by, because of the scarcity/demand. If the Shipyards get started, investment in the Eastside neighborhood will happen *relatively* quickly. People forget SPR was doing extremely well prior to the gigantic housing bubble burst, and has almost returned to that level now.
Thanks for sharing that article, Bill! I have been trying to find information on the neighborhood and plans for its development for a couple weeks now, and this is the most detailed news I've read.
Interesting that they are focusing on the lower portion of A Philip Randolph Blvd first and that they are hoping to add in multi-family units there. I found a piece of land in that exact region but unfortunately it is zoned CCG-2. I would have loved to try and develop that (If it were financially possible for me to get such a thing done or in a partnership with others) into a combination of shops/restaurants/businesses on the ground floor and apartments above - but with CCG-2 multifamily is not possible. Perhaps office space above the ground floor would work but I'm not sure if there's a huge demand for it.
Quote from: InterestedInJacksonville on June 19, 2017, 08:52:19 PM
but with CCG-2 multifamily is not possible. Perhaps office space above the ground floor would work but I'm not sure if there's a huge demand for it.
Or maybe self-storage above the retail? Apparently some developers see demand for that in the urban core. But then you'd be a pioneer in more ways than one.
Let me know when you might be in Jax. I think we should have lunch.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on June 20, 2017, 01:30:50 AM
Quote from: InterestedInJacksonville on June 19, 2017, 08:52:19 PM
but with CCG-2 multifamily is not possible. Perhaps office space above the ground floor would work but I'm not sure if there's a huge demand for it.
Or maybe self-storage above the retail? Apparently some developers see demand for that in the urban core. But then you'd be a pioneer in more ways than one.
Let me know when you might be in Jax. I think we should have lunch.
Interesting you mentioned self-storage.
I looked it up when I got back home and found that it is going to be self-storage facility. Didn't make sense to me that such prime land would be used for that of all things, but perhaps there is indeed a demand for it these days. It would net great returns I'm sure.
One thing I noticed is that CCG-2 has hotel/motel zoning. I wonder if there would be a demand for that. From what I'm seeing there are only two downtown (Hyatt and the Omni) and then a couple across Main St. Bridge towards San Marco.
I'd love to have lunch and will definitely send you a message when I'm sure of my dates. Hoping for July but if not than in August. It's great to meet people that are passionate about their city and know what's going on.
Quote from: InterestedInJacksonville on June 19, 2017, 07:30:18 PM
Thanks to everyone so far for the replies and warm welcome!
This information is extremely useful. It's good to hear that there is potential in spite of some issues.
I'll try to find out more about environmental issues. I am trying to stay West of US-1 and south of East 1st St, which should hopefully allow for that to be avoided. It looks like East of US-1 has a lot of industrial activity.
The fact that it has a bad perception is worrisome, though that should change over time as mentioned. Definitely would have to be a pioneer in many ways, which would be cool though I strongly question my ability to do that lol. I do think the neighborhood should change quick once things catch on, and that the entry price will likely be lower than Springfield. Less regulation from authorities compared to a Historic District, and also smaller home sizes so those that need renovation won't be as costly of a fix as in Springfield.
One odd thing I noticed is that even pieces of land on A. Philip Randolph are zoned single-family residential. I would think everything there should be zoned Commercial or multi-purpose.
I will definitely look at Brentwood/Lackawanna. I've seen some great deals on paper in Brentwood but have overlooked them thus far because I wasn't sure if the area has a lot of potential.
@ProjectMaximus
I'm planning to come in July hopefully. I'm from southern California but prices here are way too high for any sort of respectable return to be earned - $400K minimum for homes in the worst neighborhoods. Though appreciation of one's property value is significant here.
If you are looking for less risky investment areas, check out Murray Hill and Lake Shore or across the river in the St. Nicholas/Spring Park area. All of those are relatively historic neighborhoods that have small urban shopping strips that are in different phases of hopefully revitalizing. They are also all near the current most desirable neighborhoods in Jax.
Also, wait until at least late September to visit lol. It is never a good idea for a Cali guy to come to the South during July. ;)
At the risk of being called a 'Debbie Downer', my advise would be to proceed with extreme caution.
Springfield is still short of recovering from the housing bust. There are still bargains there and I would look there. Main St looks like it might finally be reaching a turning point that has been a long time coming.
I do not expect the Eastside to do anything at all for at least 5 years probably 10. The small house size is a drawback IMO. The draw of Springfield is the low price with high SF. Riverside had the same situation a few decades back. You only have the first part with Eastside.
Quote from: vicupstate on June 20, 2017, 09:39:30 AM
Springfield is still short of recovering from the housing bust. There are still bargains there and I would look there.
Could you point out these bargins, please? I guess that's subjective, but ask the local Realtors that specialize in Springfield - bargins are an endangered species.
Quote from: InterestedInJacksonville on June 19, 2017, 07:30:18 PM
Thanks to everyone so far for the replies and warm welcome!
This information is extremely useful. It's good to hear that there is potential in spite of some issues.
I'll try to find out more about environmental issues. I am trying to stay West of US-1 and south of East 1st St, which should hopefully allow for that to be avoided. It looks like East of US-1 has a lot of industrial activity.
Good to hear. That zone is probably a good bet for Eastside. The closer you are to the stadium district, the easier it would be to sell on that point.
Quote from: InterestedInJacksonville on June 19, 2017, 07:30:18 PM
The fact that it has a bad perception is worrisome, though that should change over time as mentioned. Definitely would have to be a pioneer in many ways, which would be cool though I strongly question my ability to do that lol. I do think the neighborhood should change quick once things catch on, and that the entry price will likely be lower than Springfield. Less regulation from authorities compared to a Historic District, and also smaller home sizes so those that need renovation won't be as costly of a fix as in Springfield.
Perceptions do change with time, but here it will be years. Not to be a debbie downer like Vic, but even a lot of the gentrifier types moving to Springfield would probably not consider moving to the Eastside. On the other hand, a lot of people in town don't even know about Eastside so the perception may change faster than it did in some other revitalizing areas.
Re home size, I think you have the right idea. One issue for Springfield has been the high bar of entry - you had to have either a lot of money/resources/elbow grease to fix up such large homes. It will take less to fix up the smaller, cheaper properties in Eastside.
Quote from: InterestedInJacksonville on June 19, 2017, 07:30:18 PM
One odd thing I noticed is that even pieces of land on A. Philip Randolph are zoned single-family residential. I would think everything there should be zoned Commercial or multi-purpose.
If that's true, it's definitely odd. However, zoning of that nature can change, especially if it's something the neighborhood interests push for.
Quote from: InterestedInJacksonville on June 19, 2017, 07:30:18 PM
I will definitely look at Brentwood/Lackawanna. I've seen some great deals on paper in Brentwood but have overlooked them thus far because I wasn't sure if the area has a lot of potential.
Brentwood definitely has long-term potential, but like Eastside, it depends on the momentum from Springfield, and there's not a lot going on as of yet. But yeah, tons of opportunity in urban Jax for those with patience and work ethic.
Quote from: FlaBoy on June 20, 2017, 08:40:13 AM
Quote from: InterestedInJacksonville on June 19, 2017, 07:30:18 PM
Thanks to everyone so far for the replies and warm welcome!
This information is extremely useful. It's good to hear that there is potential in spite of some issues.
I'll try to find out more about environmental issues. I am trying to stay West of US-1 and south of East 1st St, which should hopefully allow for that to be avoided. It looks like East of US-1 has a lot of industrial activity.
The fact that it has a bad perception is worrisome, though that should change over time as mentioned. Definitely would have to be a pioneer in many ways, which would be cool though I strongly question my ability to do that lol. I do think the neighborhood should change quick once things catch on, and that the entry price will likely be lower than Springfield. Less regulation from authorities compared to a Historic District, and also smaller home sizes so those that need renovation won't be as costly of a fix as in Springfield.
One odd thing I noticed is that even pieces of land on A. Philip Randolph are zoned single-family residential. I would think everything there should be zoned Commercial or multi-purpose.
I will definitely look at Brentwood/Lackawanna. I've seen some great deals on paper in Brentwood but have overlooked them thus far because I wasn't sure if the area has a lot of potential.
@ProjectMaximus
I'm planning to come in July hopefully. I'm from southern California but prices here are way too high for any sort of respectable return to be earned - $400K minimum for homes in the worst neighborhoods. Though appreciation of one's property value is significant here.
If you are looking for less risky investment areas, check out Murray Hill and Lake Shore or across the river in the St. Nicholas/Spring Park area. All of those are relatively historic neighborhoods that have small urban shopping strips that are in different phases of hopefully revitalizing. They are also all near the current most desirable neighborhoods in Jax.
Also, wait until at least late September to visit lol. It is never a good idea for a Cali guy to come to the South during July. ;)
Ha!
Definitely look at Murray Hill, at least as an example of a burgeoning success story. The neighborhood has already been "found" so there are fewer and fewer opportunities for those wanting to do what you're doing. You won't find many homes less than $100k, for instance. Lake Shore is probably similar as far as finding deals go.
If not Springfield, I second Murray Hill. There are still some deals in MH, you just have to look east of Edgewood Ave.
^ What Tacachale said.
You are looking at $120 to get a nice property in any of those areas.
Southern portions of Lackawanna or what I have heard some beginning to call "North Riverside" already has some desirable locations near, especially King St. where there is already Bold City Brewery and the nearby commercial district. It is probably less than a 10 minute walk to Bold City and 15 minutes to Kickbacks. For the same amount of house, you are paying three or four times more to be 5 or 6 blocks south.
Also, the land owners on the southern portions of East Jax currently prefer to use that land for parking for football games and big events so I doubt much will happen around there for awhile but it is also malleable into the future.
Quote from: FlaBoy on June 20, 2017, 11:47:37 AM
^ What Tacachale said.
You are looking at $120 to get a nice property in any of those areas.
Southern portions of Lackawanna or what I have heard some beginning to call "North Riverside" already has some desirable locations near, especially King St. where there is already Bold City Brewery and the nearby commercial district. It is probably less than a 10 minute walk to Bold City and 15 minutes to Kickbacks. For the same amount of house, you are paying three or four times more to be 5 or 6 blocks south.
Also, the land owners on the southern portions of East Jax currently prefer to use that land for parking for football games and big events so I doubt much will happen around there for awhile but it is also malleable into the future.
I believe North Riverside is east of Lackawanna, centred on Edison Avenue. I think the boundary is McDuff.
Quote from: Adam White on June 20, 2017, 11:55:05 AM
Quote from: FlaBoy on June 20, 2017, 11:47:37 AM
^ What Tacachale said.
You are looking at $120 to get a nice property in any of those areas.
Southern portions of Lackawanna or what I have heard some beginning to call "North Riverside" already has some desirable locations near, especially King St. where there is already Bold City Brewery and the nearby commercial district. It is probably less than a 10 minute walk to Bold City and 15 minutes to Kickbacks. For the same amount of house, you are paying three or four times more to be 5 or 6 blocks south.
Also, the land owners on the southern portions of East Jax currently prefer to use that land for parking for football games and big events so I doubt much will happen around there for awhile but it is also malleable into the future.
I believe North Riverside is east of Lackawanna, centred on Edison Avenue. I think the boundary is McDuff.
You would be correct.
In terms of investment near downtown, this is likely the next neighborhood after San Marco/Riverside/Brooklyn/Springfield.....mainly because it's the only remaining neighborhood that isn't separated from downtown by a body of water or an interstate. The only other one I'd consider is Mixon Town/North Riverside like has been mentioned.
The one challenge I have with the Eastside is the Port. It definitely doesn't help the neighborhood and it isn't going anywhere.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on June 20, 2017, 10:13:28 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on June 20, 2017, 09:39:30 AM
Springfield is still short of recovering from the housing bust. There are still bargains there and I would look there.
Could you point out these bargins, please? I guess that's subjective, but ask the local Realtors that specialize in Springfield - bargins are an endangered species.
Newly renovated space with higher finishes for under $100 a SF would be a bargain in my book. In 5 minutes I saw 1210 Walnut, 1333 Silver St., 1639 Hubbard all that fit that bill. 1424 N. Pearl is $105 a SF at full price.
Quote from: vicupstate on June 20, 2017, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: Bill Hoff on June 20, 2017, 10:13:28 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on June 20, 2017, 09:39:30 AM
Springfield is still short of recovering from the housing bust. There are still bargains there and I would look there.
Could you point out these bargins, please? I guess that's subjective, but ask the local Realtors that specialize in Springfield - bargins are an endangered species.
Newly renovated space with higher finishes for under $100 a SF would be a bargain in my book. In 5 minutes I saw 1210 Walnut, 1333 Silver St., 1639 Hubbard all that fit that bill. 1424 N. Pearl is $105 a SF at full price.
And how big are those houses? If they're 2-3k square feet, which is common in Springfield, you're looking at $200-300k to buy the place, plus whatever work it needs.
Quote from: vicupstate on June 20, 2017, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: Bill Hoff on June 20, 2017, 10:13:28 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on June 20, 2017, 09:39:30 AM
Springfield is still short of recovering from the housing bust. There are still bargains there and I would look there.
Could you point out these bargins, please? I guess that's subjective, but ask the local Realtors that specialize in Springfield - bargins are an endangered species.
Newly renovated space with higher finishes for under $100 a SF would be a bargain in my book. In 5 minutes I saw 1210 Walnut, 1333 Silver St., 1639 Hubbard all that fit that bill. 1424 N. Pearl is $105 a SF at full price.
You Googled incorrectly.
1210 Walnut is not under $100/sq ft. It's a 3032 sq foot house for $339k .
1333 Silver Street is not under $100/sq ft. It's a 3720 sq foot house for $389k.
1639 Hubbard Street is under $100/ sq ft, but is a flip, and doesn't have higher end finishes. It's also in an awkward location, which impacts price.
1424 N. Pearl Street is not under $100/sq ft, its a 3308 sq ft house for $350k.
You may not be aware, but typically the $ per square foot ROI decreases if a home is larger than X size (around 2500 sq feet). So, a 1200 sq foot bungalow may get $150/sq foot, while a 3600 sq foot house may get $100/sq foot.
Again, talk with the local Realtors. And do better Googling.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on June 20, 2017, 02:07:18 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on June 20, 2017, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: Bill Hoff on June 20, 2017, 10:13:28 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on June 20, 2017, 09:39:30 AM
Springfield is still short of recovering from the housing bust. There are still bargains there and I would look there.
Could you point out these bargins, please? I guess that's subjective, but ask the local Realtors that specialize in Springfield - bargins are an endangered species.
Newly renovated space with higher finishes for under $100 a SF would be a bargain in my book. In 5 minutes I saw 1210 Walnut, 1333 Silver St., 1639 Hubbard all that fit that bill. 1424 N. Pearl is $105 a SF at full price.
You Googled incorrectly.
1210 Walnut is not under $100/sq ft. It's a 3032 sq foot house for $339k .
1333 Silver Street is not under $100/sq ft. It's a 3720 sq foot house for $389k.
1639 Hubbard Street is under $100/ sq ft, but is a flip, and doesn't have higher end finishes. It's also in an awkward location, which impacts price.
1424 N. Pearl Street is not $105/sq ft, its $115/sq ft. A 3038 sq ft house for $350k.
You may not be aware, but typically the $ per square foot ROI decreases if a home is larger than X size (around 2500 sq feet). So, a 1200 sq foot bungalow may get $150/sq foot, while a 3600 sq foot house may get $100/sq foot.
Again, talk with the local Realtors. And do better Googling.
I used Realtor.com
I'll give you 1210 Walnut St.
1333 Silver is $104 Sf. I wasn't off that much
1424 Pearl is listed as
3308 SF, so it is $105.
45 W. 4th St is under $100
1520 Silver is $76 a SF
2121 N. Pearl St is $94 a SF
I didn't think I'd get so many replies, but I can't complain :D
QuoteAlso, wait until at least late September to visit lol. It is never a good idea for a Cali guy to come to the South during July. ;)
Haha, that's a something I have considered. I was in central/south Florida in May and it was already really hot. Definitely a different level/type of heat than the west coast. It's mid-80's, low 90's here during the day right now, but our nights drop into the low 60s.
Quote from: Steve on June 20, 2017, 12:33:31 PM
In terms of investment near downtown, this is likely the next neighborhood after San Marco/Riverside/Brooklyn/Springfield.....mainly because it's the only remaining neighborhood that isn't separated from downtown by a body of water or an interstate. The only other one I'd consider is Mixon Town/North Riverside like has been mentioned.
The one challenge I have with the Eastside is the Port. It definitely doesn't help the neighborhood and it isn't going anywhere.
Excellent point! It's amazing to see the difference in home prices all over the country (And maybe world?) when looking at opposite sides of an interstate or major road. That was one of my bigger concerns about Brentwood and Lackawanna. They are so close to "happening areas" but that division is often a big deal.
Looks like the most promising part of the Eastside would be either as far south as possible (Close to the stadiums) or as close to Springfield as possible - western portion. The further north, the less potential and east is probably the worst - combination of the port and a major road cutting through. Bad news for sure.
I'll keep an open mind about these though along with Mixon Town/north Riverside/Murray Hill.
---
Also good discussion about not getting the same returns after exceeding a certain square footage. For rental properties I use a similar line of thinking.
If you can get a $50-60K home and rent it out for $700-750 a month that's pretty good in my opinion. To get that type of return on a $250K home, you'd need to charge $3500-3750 per month. Much harder to find people capable/willing to pay that amount. Of course there are a million variables, and cheaper priced homes and neighborhoods have their own unique set of challenges.
Springfield should have good appreciation though barring any major economic issues/downturns. For me , as a few others have said, it may be a bit too late to enter the market at this point. There are a few fixer-uppers there for under $100K on Realtor.com, but I don't have any experience with the level of restoration that would be required.
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/421-N-Washington-St_Jacksonville_FL_32202_M61730-09042
Wondering what people's thoughts are on the reasons as to why this property has not sold. Looks like it's been on the market for quite some time.
It is zoned Commercial, Residental, Office (CRO) and has a total of 8, 1 bed/1 bath units. Located within the downtown area. Needs renovations but I'm thinking that if somebody put in $150-200K (Less would be better, but maybe it needs more) they would do pretty good by renting it out. Of course somebody could use it for different purposes rather than apartments if they wanted.
Too big of a project for me at this point in time, so I'm just curious as to why it hasn't sold (Outside of major structural issues). Not familiar with the area, perhaps it is in a bad area of downtown? Looking at Google Street Maps, the surrounding homes look pretty nice and well maintained.
I believe that is in the Cathedral District, not Eastside. In fact, that may be a great place to invest with the upcoming Shipyard project.
Quotewhen looking at opposite sides of an interstate or major road.
In my experience a RR track can do the same thing as a interstate or major road in this regard, which is why the renewal of Springfield has not 'jumped the tracks' to the Eastside.
The rental income per SF is a genuine phenomenon, but the money in RE to me is not so much rent income but appreciation, which I believe is more reliable and greater with larger homes.
Quote from: InterestedInJacksonville on June 21, 2017, 01:42:48 AM
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/421-N-Washington-St_Jacksonville_FL_32202_M61730-09042
Wondering what people's thoughts are on the reasons as to why this property has not sold. Looks like it's been on the market for quite some time.
It is zoned Commercial, Residental, Office (CRO) and has a total of 8, 1 bed/1 bath units. Located within the downtown area. Needs renovations but I'm thinking that if somebody put in $150-200K (Less would be better, but maybe it needs more) they would do pretty good by renting it out. Of course somebody could use it for different purposes rather than apartments if they wanted.
Too big of a project for me at this point in time, so I'm just curious as to why it hasn't sold (Outside of major structural issues). Not familiar with the area, perhaps it is in a bad area of downtown? Looking at Google Street Maps, the surrounding homes look pretty nice and well maintained.
Quote from: camarocane on June 21, 2017, 08:00:46 AM
I believe that is in the Cathedral District, not Eastside. In fact, that may be a great place to invest with the upcoming Shipyard project.
Right, IIJ, this is a part of town called the Cathedral District. It's part of the downtown CBD so zoning and whatnot are a bit different than in Eastside, Springfield, etc. While the houses were built as residences, and at least some are zoned that way (or CRO), few of them are used for that purpose. Sadly, they're mainly offices now, mostly used by lawyers, bondsmen, etc. because it's nearby the police complex and the old courthouse, and nonprofits because it's, well, near all the cathedrals. They're not as popular with lawyers now that the courthouse(s) have moved several blocks west, so that may be one reason. There also may be particular issues with that building.
The Cathedral District has seen fits and starts of momentum for the last 15 years, and one day will probably be a hot spot for residential again. There's currently a proposal for a mixed-use development. It's another spot looking for pioneers, but the bar of entry is going to be pretty high considering the size and value of the properties.
Quote from: InterestedInJacksonville on June 20, 2017, 02:31:26 AM
Interesting you mentioned self-storage. I was in Miami a while back and noticed a fairly large multi-story building coming up on one of the main roads leading into downtown that is experiencing significant development (A portion of NE 2nd Ave, in the Little Haiti neighborhood for those who are familiar with Miami). The land alone is likely worth a couple million.
I looked it up when I got back home and found that it is going to be self-storage facility. Didn't make sense to me that such prime land would be used for that of all things, but perhaps there is indeed a demand for it these days. It would net great returns I'm sure.
One thing I noticed is that CCG-2 has hotel/motel zoning. I wonder if there would be a demand for that. From what I'm seeing there are only two downtown (Hyatt and the Omni) and then a couple across Main St. Bridge towards San Marco.
I'd love to have lunch and will definitely send you a message when I'm sure of my dates. Hoping for July but if not than in August. It's great to meet people that are passionate about their city and know what's going on.
Lol the self-storage over retail idea was from one I saw above a cuban restaurant in Doral last year.
We have a hotel planned for the Laura Trio in the heart of downtown, and then possibly something in the works over in the Stadium District.
Well you are in the right place to find people passionate and knowledgeable about the city!
Greetings Sir,
I am quite familiar with the 421 N Washington property as I have sold two other props in that vicinity. It was recently under contract but the repair estimate scared away the buyer. It is 8 units and in horrible condition. You could easily spend $40,000 per unit there to get it onto great shape: that's $320,000 if you hire licensed contractors, plumbers, electricians, drywall, painters, etc. And it will all need to be permitted and inspected. Rent there for a sweet 1/1 with no parking is going to be $700-800 (before utilities and extras). Not sure if that makes it worthwhile for an investor but I think those numbers are realistic. I believe the Seller accepted a number in the low $100,000's so add that into your basis.
Look at Elena Flats for a comparison. The investor doing that won't make any real profit for a long time. I think he is doing it to save it.
Also, incredibly important, you make the deal (or bargain) when you buy the place, so don't be afraid to lowball folks. There are many people with props for sale for many different reasons, some need the money and some don't. Only way to find out is to write up an offer. Also, every deal is contingent upon the inspection results. What appears to be a deal can vanish quickly if repairs are needed that cannot be seen with the naked eye (i.e. termite infestation, crumbling foundations, etc....)
I strongly urge you to become familiar with COJ.net auction properties and tax deed sales. There are indeed some values to be had there but you need to know the process and have CASH.
Best neighborhoods for you right now(IMO):
Murray Hill, Springfield, St Johns Park, St Nicholas and lots of flipping still going on in Riverside-Avondale-Ortega. I personally would also only buy something you yourself are willing to live in. If we have another crash then you might need to slide into one of your own units to ride it out.
I've sold a lot of multi family and there are some decent properties out there right now but also many way overpriced! You should be grossing 10% before expenses IMO. Any more than that is great, but in my experience you have to go into less comfortable areas where keeping and finding quality tenants is more work.
If you do pursue a specific neighborhood, GET FAMILIAR WITH IT, or else you could lose your shirt!
Good luck!
Regarding self storage, evidently people hoard a lot of stuff that can't fit in the smaller urban residential units they're moving into all over the country. Thus, self storage has become a big business with a decent profit margin for the private sector. We're finally seeing several residential infill projects get underway, so all of this seems new and a waste of prime sites to us locally. However, it's just a part of the market's natural reaction to business opportunities created by a growing residential population base.
Breaking News?
Much of townhouse row on the Eastside was recently purchased by a company called St. John's properties, which has a listed office address downtown (Hogan St. I think) Does anybody else know anything about this sale, the company or what their goals might be?
What is the address of the Eastside property?
It's multiple addresses. A couple of blocks worth. Phelps street. Most if not all the townhouses were bought by SJP.
Some (like only one or two buildings) of the concrete block style 2 story apartments on Franklin street got bought,too, but I don't know who bought them.