For restraining a student who was attempting to attack her with his laptop.
http://jacksonville.com/news/education/2017-06-07/duval-second-grade-teacher-suspended-10-days-allegedly-pinning-student
TL;DR - Disruptive student refuses to put laptop away when teacher asks. Teacher escorts him to the front of the room to put it away and tells him that his Mother ordered him to be respectful toward his teacher. Student raises his laptop over his head to swing at the teacher. Teacher grabs him by the shoulders and pins him against the whiteboard. Another teacher in the room gets between them, and the student swings on the teacher with his fist before being taken to the principals office. Teacher is placed on administrative leave, and is eventually suspended for 10 days for putting her hands on the student.
And we wonder why we can't fill teaching vacancies in Duval County.
These kids have zero accountability.
Quote from: KenFSU on June 07, 2017, 11:08:31 AM
For restraining a student who was attempting to attack her with his laptop.
http://jacksonville.com/news/education/2017-06-07/duval-second-grade-teacher-suspended-10-days-allegedly-pinning-student
TL;DR - Disruptive student refuses to put laptop away when teacher asks. Teacher escorts him to the front of the room to put it away and tells him that his Mother ordered him to be respectful toward his teacher. Student raises his laptop over his head to swing at the teacher. Teacher grabs him by the shoulders and pins him against the whiteboard. Another teacher in the room gets between them, and the student swings on the teacher with his fist before being taken to the principals office. Teacher is placed on administrative leave, and is eventually suspended for 10 days for putting her hands on the student.
And we wonder why we can't fill teaching vacancies in Duval County.
These kids have zero accountability.
He's a second grader? Why is a teacher physically restraining a student? That seems OTT. I'm not saying the student acted appropriately, but I cannot believe the teacher assaulted him. That's inappropriate, IMO.
^Where's the assault???
No marks, no bruises.
She didn't punch or kick him.
The teacher simply restrained a 2nd grader who was threatening to attack her with a heavy object.
The disrespectful student physically coming at the teacher isn't the victim here.
Sooo glad I do not have a kid in that effed up system... kids like that need to be removed from the normal classroom... permanently. I realize you cannot expel them but a "special" class for "special" kids so the ones who are interested in actually learning something... can.
I don't see an assault either, a battery maybe?....Sorry, I'll just get back to my bar prep course.
She was suspended with pay? It is better than opening them up for litigation potentially. However, there is no end game of discipline for these kids. That is accurate.
Quote from: remc86007 on June 07, 2017, 12:54:07 PM
I don't see an assault either, a battery maybe?....Sorry, I'll just get back to my bar prep course.
I was thinking assault because the child might've feared that violence was to be committed against him (or whatever the terminology is in Florida). Assault doesn't require touching the other person, but also doesn't preclude touching (I don't believe). Anyway, the point is not to be pedantic about the legal definition of assault as much as it was to point out that the teacher was wrong to pin the child against a wall (and place her arm across his throat) or whatever. That's just f'ed up.
Anyway - the teacher is an adult and a professional. This kids was, what, seven years old? One is an adult (and a professional) and the other is a child who doesn't have the capability to reason properly. And, based on what the teacher is reported to have said, it sounds like she lost her cool.
Saying the teacher acted inappropriately does not mean the child acted appropriately. It means the teacher shouldn't have done what she did - and that is likely reflected in her suspension. Even if the child was in the wrong, the teacher is expected to act appropriately.
On an unrelated note, I think it was wrong for her to bring up his mother in front of the class. But that has no bearing on this case, other than it maybe speaks to her judgment.
As a teacher with more than 30 years in, I can tell you without question, I would put ANY student down on the floor in a heartbeat if I felt I or any other person were about to be attacked. The law is clear about this, at least in Michigan, where I live. A teacher may use whatever force is necessary to protect themselves, others, and/or property. If the kid were walking away with the laptop, clearly physical restraint would not be needed. If he were throwing computers out of the cart and destroying property, you better believe restraint is acceptable. If he's using said computer as a weapon, sorry guys...your school district is being run by complete morons if they are saying the teacher should not have physically touched that student. Of course, imbeciles working in school administration is not that rare, no matter what state you live in.
Quote from: TimmyB on June 07, 2017, 02:47:33 PM
As a teacher with more than 30 years in, I can tell you without question, I would put ANY student down on the floor in a heartbeat if I felt I or any other person were about to be attacked. The law is clear about this, at least in Michigan, where I live. A teacher may use whatever force is necessary to protect themselves, others, and/or property. If the kid were walking away with the laptop, clearly physical restraint would not be needed. If he were throwing computers out of the cart and destroying property, you better believe restraint is acceptable. If he's using said computer as a weapon, sorry guys...your school district is being run by complete morons if they are saying the teacher should not have physically touched that student. Of course, imbeciles working in school administration is not that rare, no matter what state you live in.
How about if the child was being rude and refusing to put the laptop away? Is it appropriate to grab the child by the arm, lead him to the front of the class and then try to take the laptop away? Because that's what precipitated this, according to the story. The teacher never should've done that and then the laptop throwing incident wouldn't have occurred. She should've known better.
Quote from: Adam White on June 07, 2017, 02:53:01 PM
How about if the child was being rude and refusing to put the laptop away? Is it appropriate to grab the child by the arm, lead him to the front of the class and then try to take the laptop away? Because that's what precipitated this, according to the story. The teacher never should've done that and then the laptop throwing incident wouldn't have occurred. She should've known better.
Wow
Quote from: Adam White on June 07, 2017, 01:54:51 PM
Anyway, the point is not to be pedantic about the legal definition of assault as much as it was to point out that the teacher was wrong to pin the child against a wall (and place her arm across his throat) or whatever. That's just f'ed up..
For the record, as the article states, the
only person reporting that the teacher had her arm to his throat is the student who tried to attack her with the laptop. Every other witness - students, teachers, etc. - refuted this claim.
Quote from: KenFSU on June 07, 2017, 03:24:15 PM
Quote from: Adam White on June 07, 2017, 01:54:51 PM
Anyway, the point is not to be pedantic about the legal definition of assault as much as it was to point out that the teacher was wrong to pin the child against a wall (and place her arm across his throat) or whatever. That's just f'ed up..
For the record, as the article states, the only person reporting that the teacher had her arm to his throat is the student who tried to attack her with the laptop. Every other witness - students, teachers, etc. - refuted this claim.
Read it again. The article says the only person who said she had her
fist to his throat was the student. The report says it was her arm.
QuoteA district investigative report says that on April 19, Stephanie Stripling-Mitchell used poor judgment when she put her hand and arm against a second-grade boy's chest and throat at Hyde Grove Elementary, pinning him against a wall...The boy said she pushed her fist into his throat, however most of the children's and a Team Up teacher's accounts don't mention her using her fist. A police report said the teacher had the child's shoulders, but there were no bruises or marks on him.
Quote from: Adam White on June 07, 2017, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on June 07, 2017, 02:47:33 PM
As a teacher with more than 30 years in, I can tell you without question, I would put ANY student down on the floor in a heartbeat if I felt I or any other person were about to be attacked. The law is clear about this, at least in Michigan, where I live. A teacher may use whatever force is necessary to protect themselves, others, and/or property. If the kid were walking away with the laptop, clearly physical restraint would not be needed. If he were throwing computers out of the cart and destroying property, you better believe restraint is acceptable. If he's using said computer as a weapon, sorry guys...your school district is being run by complete morons if they are saying the teacher should not have physically touched that student. Of course, imbeciles working in school administration is not that rare, no matter what state you live in.
How about if the child was being rude and refusing to put the laptop away? Is it appropriate to grab the child by the arm, lead him to the front of the class and then try to take the laptop away? Because that's what precipitated this, according to the story. The teacher never should've done that and then the laptop throwing incident wouldn't have occurred. She should've known better.
TBH, at that point, I would have called for administrator support. I'm not going to play the game that so many of these people seem to want to play. If a student has disobeyed a direct request from me, or any adult employed by the school, their time with me is over for today, and they will be removed. I'll let administrators deal with it. If the administrator doesn't show up, then you've got a whole new issue.
The TU missed a lot of information in their story. I just read the complete investigative report, and there are definitely some shades of gray. First, and most importantly, this teacher has a history of putting her hands on students, having pushed over and mocked a child previously. Secondly, the teacher who helped break it up told investigators that the boy did try to hit her with the laptop, but she also said that the teachers reaction appeared to be out of anger, not self defense. Thirdly, after the student was removed from the room, the teacher told the rest of the students that she would do the same thing to them if they got out of line. Both were clearly in the wrong in their handling of the situation, and the 10 day suspension was the result of not just these actions, but of two previous incidents. Everything taken as a whole she deserves the suspension. Contradicting my own thread, but as the facts change, so does my opinion.
Quote from: KenFSU on June 07, 2017, 07:34:36 PM
The TU missed a lot of information in their story. I just read the complete investigative report, and there are definitely some shades of gray. First, and most importantly, this teacher has a history of putting her hands on students, having pushed over and mocked a child previously. Secondly, the teacher who helped break it up told investigators that the boy did try to hit her with the laptop, but she also said that the teachers reaction appeared to be out of anger, not self defense. Thirdly, after the student was removed from the room, the teacher told the rest of the students that she would do the same thing to them if they got out of line. Both were clearly in the wrong in their handling of the situation, and the 10 day suspension was the result of not just these actions, but of two previous incidents. Everything taken as a whole she deserves the suspension. Contradicting my own thread, but as the facts change, so does my opinion.
That's good to know that this wasn't simply a case of a spineless administration. Thanks for the update.
Most adults in our country would benefit from de-escalation training. From road rage accidents to workplace shootings to politics to the classroom and everything in between. The United States has a serious anger issue. "Terrorism" allows us to ignore our internal issues because the threat of it keeps us preoccupied. Meanwhile, we are just destroying ourselves from within.
The child was a second grader who just wanted to keep using his computer. Ignoring him and moving on with class would have solved this problem. He wasn't physically hurting another student or adult before the teacher chose to grab him and drag him to the front. Imagine walking into a clothing store and asking a sales associate for help. The associate ignores you, so you grab the associate by the arm and drag him/her to the register. You would probably get punched and charged with assault. The teacher chose to make a problem when there wasn't one.
Quote from: brainstormer on June 07, 2017, 08:22:32 PM
The child was a second grader who just wanted to keep using his computer. Ignoring him and moving on with class would have solved this problem. He wasn't physically hurting another student or adult before the teacher chose to grab him and drag him to the front. Imagine walking into a clothing store and asking a sales associate for help. The associate ignores you, so you grab the associate by the arm and drag him/her to the register. You would probably get punched and charged with assault. The teacher chose to make a problem when there wasn't one.
I agree in part, but as the husband of a second grade teacher, I would also argue that simply ignoring the fact that a student is breaking the rules isn't the solution either. The child wants to keep using the computer after the teacher tells him to put it away? Tough shit, he ain't in charge. Ignoring his disobedience is the same as condoning it, and it sends a strong message to the rest of the class that the teachers instructions are optional, not mandatory. Quickest way to lose control of a classroom. Violence certainly isn't the answer, but with teachers powerless to enforce any real consequence and school administrations increasingly gun-shy about having any type of disciplinary paper trail, I'm surprised more teachers don't lose their cools.
I taught second grade for 5 years. A positive student-teacher relationship goes a long way. Something like asking the child to make sure all of the laptops are plugged in inside the cart when he is finished might have been enough to encourage him to "choose" to be done and also feel empowered because he got to be helpful. Teachers never win by engaging in authoritarian power battles with students. You can still have high expectations for your students and be firm without going negative and physical.
Quote from: brainstormer on June 07, 2017, 09:22:18 PM
I taught second grade for 5 years. A positive student-teacher relationship goes a long way. Something like asking the child to make sure all of the laptops are plugged in inside the cart when he is finished might have been enough to encourage him to "choose" to be done and also feel empowered because he got to be helpful. Teachers never win by engaging in authoritarian power battles with students. You can still have high expectations for your students and be firm without going negative and physical.
Snowflake
https://affectiveliving.com/2014/03/08/what-students-really-need-to-hear/ (https://affectiveliving.com/2014/03/08/what-students-really-need-to-hear/)
Quote from: bill on June 07, 2017, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: brainstormer on June 07, 2017, 09:22:18 PM
I taught second grade for 5 years. A positive student-teacher relationship goes a long way. Something like asking the child to make sure all of the laptops are plugged in inside the cart when he is finished might have been enough to encourage him to "choose" to be done and also feel empowered because he got to be helpful. Teachers never win by engaging in authoritarian power battles with students. You can still have high expectations for your students and be firm without going negative and physical.
Snowflake
Thank you, Bill. A "highly effective" Snowflake with student growth that surpassed my colleagues.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 09, 2017, 01:44:41 PM
Quote from: bill on June 07, 2017, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: brainstormer on June 07, 2017, 09:22:18 PM
I taught second grade for 5 years. A positive student-teacher relationship goes a long way. Something like asking the child to make sure all of the laptops are plugged in inside the cart when he is finished might have been enough to encourage him to "choose" to be done and also feel empowered because he got to be helpful. Teachers never win by engaging in authoritarian power battles with students. You can still have high expectations for your students and be firm without going negative and physical.
Snowflake
Bill, isn't there a TU article needing a comment about sagging pants or the knock out game that requires your attention?
Lol.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 09, 2017, 01:44:41 PM
Quote from: bill on June 07, 2017, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: brainstormer on June 07, 2017, 09:22:18 PM
I taught second grade for 5 years. A positive student-teacher relationship goes a long way. Something like asking the child to make sure all of the laptops are plugged in inside the cart when he is finished might have been enough to encourage him to "choose" to be done and also feel empowered because he got to be helpful. Teachers never win by engaging in authoritarian power battles with students. You can still have high expectations for your students and be firm without going negative and physical.
Snowflake
Bill, isn't there a TU article needing a comment about sagging pants or the knock out game that requires your attention?
The struggle is real!
Quote from: bill on June 07, 2017, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: brainstormer on June 07, 2017, 09:22:18 PM
I taught second grade for 5 years. A positive student-teacher relationship goes a long way. Something like asking the child to make sure all of the laptops are plugged in inside the cart when he is finished might have been enough to encourage him to "choose" to be done and also feel empowered because he got to be helpful. Teachers never win by engaging in authoritarian power battles with students. You can still have high expectations for your students and be firm without going negative and physical.
Snowflake
What greater power is there than having the power and showing restraint?