Avondale: Riverside's Residential Ideal
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Avondale-December-2016/i-CwJnqMV/0/e5728618/L/20161203_103015-L.jpg)
Some neighborhoods are so popular, their borders significantly grow with neighboring communities embracing their name as the decades pass. In Jacksonville, Avondale is an example of such a place. Now significant part of one of the region’s largest historic districts, Avondale was originally platted as a mile long infill subdivision that was only 4.5 blocks in width.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2017-may-avondale-riversides-residential-ideal
Sometimes just one sentence raises a whole lot of questions...
Can we learn more about the "proposed River Oaks Freeway"?
Basically, it would have been a six-lane, two-block wide freeway running along Boone Park and tying into a river crossing near Richmond and Dancy Streets. Evidently, we liked our expressways back in those days. How about an expressway for the Northbank instead of a riverwalk?
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Miscellaneous/Miscellaneous/i-6ZKTK2d/0/0e9bbfde/X3/Jacksonville%20Future-X3.jpg)
Parks were also seen as the perfect spots for highway improvements. Here's one of the old proposals for an interchange through Riverside Park:
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-7649-riverside-park-expressway.jpg)
Quote from: thelakelander on May 15, 2017, 10:25:39 AM
How about an expressway for the Northbank instead of a riverwalk?
That would have been incredible if you can also assume that it would have been turned into a Dedicated Ped/Bike path by now.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on May 15, 2017, 12:39:33 PM
God, if we could get another river crossing somewhere between the Fuller Warren and the Buckman, that would be incredible.
This wasn't the only proposal, but JTB-Timuquana and University-Timuquana
Robert Moses would be so proud of those planned expressways.
So what are the commonly accepted boundaries for Avondale now?
It's a little grey, but the most commonly accepted border between Riverside and Avondale is McDuff. The USPS says it's King (zip code changes).
Generally most people say McDuff, Fishweir Creek, Roosevelt Blvd, and the River
^There's no commonly accepted border between Riverside and Avondale. Almost everyone has their own (often very strong) opinion. McDuff is probably most common today; it's what Wayne Wood's book Jacksonville's Architectural Heritage uses. The Avondale Historic District border for Avondale is at Seminole and Belvedere. I don't know of anyone who'd say King Street, but you hear it sometimes as that's where the zip code border is.
Quote from: exnewsman on June 08, 2017, 06:34:46 PM
So what are the commonly accepted boundaries for Avondale now?
Depends on if you're listing your property for sale, or trying to argue valuation with the property appraiser.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 09, 2017, 10:37:38 AM
Quote from: Steve on June 08, 2017, 07:18:09 PM
It's a little grey, but the most commonly accepted border between Riverside and Avondale is McDuff. The USPS says it's King (zip code changes).
Generally most people say McDuff, Fishweir Creek, Roosevelt Blvd, and the River
I'd put the Southern Border at San Juan, not Fischweir.
Isn't that location known as Fairfax?
Quote from: Jim on June 09, 2017, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 09, 2017, 10:37:38 AM
Quote from: Steve on June 08, 2017, 07:18:09 PM
It's a little grey, but the most commonly accepted border between Riverside and Avondale is McDuff. The USPS says it's King (zip code changes).
Generally most people say McDuff, Fishweir Creek, Roosevelt Blvd, and the River
I'd put the Southern Border at San Juan, not Fischweir.
Isn't that location known as Fairfax?
Yes, but many would consider it part of Avondale. Names with cachet tend to take on more area over time.
I've always thought the modern accepted boundaries to be McDuff, Roosevelt and Fishweir creek.
I remember reading that Belvedere and Seminole as the 'northern' (or whatever) boundary - but McDuff makes a nicer divider.
Quote from: Tacachale on June 09, 2017, 11:11:40 AM
Quote from: Jim on June 09, 2017, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 09, 2017, 10:37:38 AM
Quote from: Steve on June 08, 2017, 07:18:09 PM
It's a little grey, but the most commonly accepted border between Riverside and Avondale is McDuff. The USPS says it's King (zip code changes).
Generally most people say McDuff, Fishweir Creek, Roosevelt Blvd, and the River
I'd put the Southern Border at San Juan, not Fischweir.
Isn't that location known as Fairfax?
Yes, but many would consider it part of Avondale. Names with cachet tend to take on more area over time.
The houses seem a lot different over there, though. The area feels different to me. Or always did.
Edit: come to think of it, once you get past Edgewood, it all starts to feel less "Avondaley" to me.
Quote from: Adam White on June 09, 2017, 11:12:44 AM
I've always thought the modern accepted boundaries to be McDuff, Roosevelt and Fishweir creek.
I remember reading that Belvedere and Seminole as the 'northern' (or whatever) boundary - but McDuff makes a nicer divider.
Actually, I believe that's correct as it relates to the original, "master-planned" development that originally was Avondale. I believe that Seminole was originally West St.
Quote from: Adam White on June 09, 2017, 11:14:34 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on June 09, 2017, 11:11:40 AM
Quote from: Jim on June 09, 2017, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 09, 2017, 10:37:38 AM
Quote from: Steve on June 08, 2017, 07:18:09 PM
It's a little grey, but the most commonly accepted border between Riverside and Avondale is McDuff. The USPS says it's King (zip code changes).
Generally most people say McDuff, Fishweir Creek, Roosevelt Blvd, and the River
I'd put the Southern Border at San Juan, not Fischweir.
Isn't that location known as Fairfax?
Yes, but many would consider it part of Avondale. Names with cachet tend to take on more area over time.
The houses seem a lot different over there, though. The area feels different to me. Or always did.
Edit: come to think of it, once you get past Edgewood, it all starts to feel less "Avondaley" to me.
True. South of there the houses tend to be smaller, and newer. "Avondale" just swallowed them up over time, as they appear to be swallowing Fairfax (but notably, not Lakeshore.) I expect as Fairfax gentrifies, Lakeshore will follow along eventually.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 09, 2017, 01:43:41 PM
Quote from: Jim on June 09, 2017, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 09, 2017, 10:37:38 AM
Quote from: Steve on June 08, 2017, 07:18:09 PM
It's a little grey, but the most commonly accepted border between Riverside and Avondale is McDuff. The USPS says it's King (zip code changes).
Generally most people say McDuff, Fishweir Creek, Roosevelt Blvd, and the River
I'd put the Southern Border at San Juan, not Fischweir.
Isn't that location known as Fairfax?
Technically, yes. But, a lot of my friends growing up lived over there and it was always called Avondale in my experience. Plus, you say Fairfax to most people and they have no effing clue what you are talking about.
They have no clue probably because nobody was calling it Fairfax.
Should we keep calling everything north of I-10 and downtown the north side? I've never seen another city that cares so little for accurate neighborhood naming. West side, north side, south side, Orange Park....just labeled huge swaths of hundreds of square miles and ignoring dozens of actual neighborhood names because we can't be bothered to learn more than 4 or 5.
Quote from: Adam White on June 09, 2017, 11:14:34 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on June 09, 2017, 11:11:40 AM
Quote from: Jim on June 09, 2017, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 09, 2017, 10:37:38 AM
Quote from: Steve on June 08, 2017, 07:18:09 PM
It's a little grey, but the most commonly accepted border between Riverside and Avondale is McDuff. The USPS says it's King (zip code changes).
Generally most people say McDuff, Fishweir Creek, Roosevelt Blvd, and the River
I'd put the Southern Border at San Juan, not Fischweir.
Isn't that location known as Fairfax?
Yes, but many would consider it part of Avondale. Names with cachet tend to take on more area over time.
The houses seem a lot different over there, though. The area feels different to me. Or always did.
Edit: come to think of it, once you get past Edgewood, it all starts to feel less "Avondaley" to me.
By using Edgewood as a border than the Shoppes of Avondale would not be included in what feels like "Avondale" to you. Using Seminole or McDuff and Fishweir creek makes them the center of Avondale.
Based off the city's property appraisers, Avondale starts once you pass Willow Branch Avenue and ends before Glendale Street.
QuoteTrue. South of there the houses tend to be smaller, and newer. "Avondale" just swallowed them up over time, as they appear to be swallowing Fairfax (but notably, not Lakeshore.) I expect as Fairfax gentrifies, Lakeshore will follow along eventually.
Avondale never "swallowed" up a swath of housing. The media, in their laziness to report fair and accurate descriptions did this to the area. To this day, pick any news station, they will call the Daily's at Roosevelt - Avondale. Fairfax has a set boundary, they EVEN HAVE SIGNS to designate the area. I know, its scary that people cannot read these days. Go figure.
RA does not wish to extend past its southern border of Fishweir creek. There are enough homes around FCCJ that look more like homes that belong in Murray Hill, than what Telfair Stockton had envisioned for the area. In fact the area really sees change from Dancy , west toward 17 and to Fishweir. The lots are larger, there are fewer parks in and around the streets (no Edgewood Circle Park 1, 2 or 3), fewer 2 story homes and more 1 story homes.
Many dont consider those homes to be "Avondale", those built west of the 4 original streets, Talbot, Edgewood, Challen and Avondale were built after the great homes of Avondale. Built in the 30s and 40s, as the originals were first constructed in the 20s, along with the Shoppes of Avondale. Most of Fairfax was started in the 50's.
Quote from: iluvolives on June 09, 2017, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: Adam White on June 09, 2017, 11:14:34 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on June 09, 2017, 11:11:40 AM
Quote from: Jim on June 09, 2017, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 09, 2017, 10:37:38 AM
Quote from: Steve on June 08, 2017, 07:18:09 PM
It's a little grey, but the most commonly accepted border between Riverside and Avondale is McDuff. The USPS says it's King (zip code changes).
Generally most people say McDuff, Fishweir Creek, Roosevelt Blvd, and the River
I'd put the Southern Border at San Juan, not Fischweir.
Isn't that location known as Fairfax?
Yes, but many would consider it part of Avondale. Names with cachet tend to take on more area over time.
The houses seem a lot different over there, though. The area feels different to me. Or always did.
Edit: come to think of it, once you get past Edgewood, it all starts to feel less "Avondaley" to me.
By using Edgewood as a border than the Shoppes of Avondale would not be included in what feels like "Avondale" to you. Using Seminole or McDuff and Fishweir creek makes them the center of Avondale.
I'm not saying it isn't Avondale. I know the boundaries of Avondale very well. I'm just saying it feels different to me. (And a lot of it depends where you are when you cross Edgewood).
Quote from: mtraininjax on July 09, 2017, 06:40:44 AM
QuoteTrue. South of there the houses tend to be smaller, and newer. "Avondale" just swallowed them up over time, as they appear to be swallowing Fairfax (but notably, not Lakeshore.) I expect as Fairfax gentrifies, Lakeshore will follow along eventually.
Avondale never "swallowed" up a swath of housing. The media, in their laziness to report fair and accurate descriptions did this to the area. To this day, pick any news station, they will call the Daily's at Roosevelt - Avondale. Fairfax has a set boundary, they EVEN HAVE SIGNS to designate the area. I know, its scary that people cannot read these days. Go figure.
RA does not wish to extend past its southern border of Fishweir creek. There are enough homes around FCCJ that look more like homes that belong in Murray Hill, than what Telfair Stockton had envisioned for the area. In fact the area really sees change from Dancy , west toward 17 and to Fishweir. The lots are larger, there are fewer parks in and around the streets (no Edgewood Circle Park 1, 2 or 3), fewer 2 story homes and more 1 story homes.
Many dont consider those homes to be "Avondale", those built west of the 4 original streets, Talbot, Edgewood, Challen and Avondale were built after the great homes of Avondale. Built in the 30s and 40s, as the originals were first constructed in the 20s, along with the Shoppes of Avondale. Most of Fairfax was started in the 50's.
Yes, Avondale has swallowed up a lot of area beyond the original Avondale development. It's a natural progression when placename catch on; it also happened with San Marco and Riverside, and the "sides" and Arlington back in the day. The swallowing of Fairfax has less to do with the media than locals and realtors applying a well recognized name with a lot of cachet to their area. It would be cool for Fairfax to take on its distinct identity like Murray Hill and Brooklyn have.