http://www.nflroads.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/I-95%20EL%20Flyer.pdf (http://www.nflroads.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/I-95%20EL%20Flyer.pdf)
More express lanes coming to Jacksonville
Hahahaha, just when you think construction is ending. I95 has been under construction in Jacksonville for over 15 years, what a joke.
The bigger problem is these Lincoln lanes favor people with more money. What's next, paying extra to jump the line at the DMV?
We're taxed on our income, taxed when we spend it, taxed annually to own a car, taxed each fill up, taxed on property we own, and now they want us to pay MORE to drive on roads? I won't be partaking.
I knew this was coming.
Not happy with the proliferation of "express lanes" in Jacksonville. We as a city need to make it clear that adding needed capacity on the roadways should not incur extra taxes and user fees. We voted against tolls once before. We shouldn't have to lobby to remove them yet again.
It's a growing city. The extra capacity is needed and cars are king. Extra lanes are an obligation for a growing city. That's that.
What's funny is that on North Florida roads website, it's not even listed on future projects page. They see a revenue opportunity and prioritize this to the top. It will be shovel ready in 6 months.
Unfortunately, with this project and the narrow real estate they are working with to expand the highway, a lot of homes will be affected and demolished which is sad.
Quote from: chipwich on April 17, 2017, 06:42:37 PM
It's a growing city. The extra capacity is needed and cars are king. Extra lanes are transit is an obligation for a growing city. That's that.
Got it.
Quote from: coredumped on April 17, 2017, 06:39:30 PM
Hahahaha, just when you think construction is ending. I95 has been under construction in Jacksonville for over 15 years, what a joke.
The bigger problem is these Lincoln lanes favor people with more money. What's next, paying extra to jump the line at the DMV?
We're taxed on our income, taxed when we spend it, taxed annually to own a car, taxed each fill up, taxed on property we own, and now they want us to pay MORE to drive on roads? I won't be partaking.
I doubt you'll see a day that there's no construction on I-95 and other interstates in the area. Traffic aside, there's too many businesses that rely on the business of roadway construction and maintenance.
Anyone planning on going to the meeting?
Based on this forum's success of driving change, I'd think that someone here would want to go and provide an informed opinion.
If I'm in town, I'll try to attend. However, I don't know about attempting to drive change. That stretch of I-95 is one of the few areas in Jax where Lexus lanes make some sense. I also assume, this will mean they'll rebuild some of the outdated interchanges like at Emerson and University?
Quote from: thelakelander on April 17, 2017, 10:29:20 PM
If I'm in town, I'll try to attend. However, I don't know about attempting to drive change. That stretch of I-95 is one of the few areas in Jax where Lexus lanes make some sense. I also assume, this will mean they'll rebuild some of the outdated interchanges like at Emerson and University?
Lexus Lanes can make sense? You should be quoted on that. FCN Maybe?
And yes, vertical clearance issues, ramp improvements, Emerson interchange reconfiguration. Oh, and the pedestrian overpass replacement next to Englewood. Lots of opportunties for neighborhood improvements ti support revitalization.
I don't know if this is the case here or not, but there are situations where "Lexus Lanes" make sense. If there is a road with too much traffic on it, and there is not sufficient funding to expand it without adding another revenue stream, it makes sense to add "Lexus Lanes" so long as they are able to pay for themselves.
The reality is that roads will never pay for themselves. Adding toll lanes simply reduces the amount of subsidies needed to build and maintain them.
Quote from: southsider1015 on April 17, 2017, 11:19:18 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on April 17, 2017, 10:29:20 PM
If I'm in town, I'll try to attend. However, I don't know about attempting to drive change. That stretch of I-95 is one of the few areas in Jax where Lexus lanes make some sense.
I also assume, this will mean they'll rebuild some of the outdated interchanges like at Emerson and University?
Lexus Lanes can make sense? You should be quoted on that. FCN Maybe?
Lol, I never said I'm against road expansion. I'm not crazy about many of the political driven projects but there are cases where upgrades are actually needed. This stretch of aging roadway is one of them.
QuoteAnd yes, vertical clearance issues, ramp improvements, Emerson interchange reconfiguration. Oh, and the pedestrian overpass replacement next to Englewood. Lots of opportunties for neighborhood improvements ti support revitalization.
Good. It seems like an opportunity for multimodal improvements and improved east/west connectivity throughout Englewood through the use of roadway expansion funds.
The Toll Lanes will never pay for themselves, that is not the idea. My understanding is that they are only going to allow you to actually get somewhere on time if you need to.
The overall plan in Florida is not to be like Atlanta where building more lanes just makes bigger parking lots. Build express lanes, then express buses with flyovers into the lanes. In time as traffic increases, people will realize the express buses or light rail will be the way to go. FDOT knows they can't build their way out of this. Also, they are keeping a close eye autonomous vehicles, since they may solve the capacity issues.
Building more lanes is not the answer, I think everyone can agree on that. Getting people out of cars is the goal in the end or self-driving cars.
Ultimately, land uses need to change and be more coordinated with transportation infrastructure investments. The ideal scenario is that you'd have several corridors and "neighborhood centric" nodes of mixed use activity (preferably along reliable transit corridors). This would reduce the amount of short local trips currently sucking up capacity on major roadways, while also creating an environment where alternative modes of mobility are viable options for users.
FDOT is trying to "raise" the cost of driving so it can justify charging a fare on future transit.
I have read several studies and comments in FDOT transit materials about how to raise the cost of driving to support a future transit system.
No one will take transit if the time and expense of driving is less. FDOT will not invest in transit until the time and expense of highways dont compete with it.
Solution is on demand tolling.
The one thing FDOT cant control, is business flight from the core. Thats a local issue.
The land use situation is a regional issue. However, it should certainly be coordinated with infrastructure investments being made by agencies such as the FDOT and JTA.
I throw my hat in for, at least, considering using all this new found land to facilitate a commuter rail from the area. Don't let your dreams be dreams!
Excluding interchange redesigns redesigns at Emerson, University and perhaps Bowden, I wonder if the addition of lanes can be done within existing ROW?
As for commuter rail, that would take place on the existing FEC line. However, I doubt it would be successful given the sprawled out nature of the Southside. Instead, I'd recommend lobbying for Brightline's expansion to Jax and getting a St. Augustine stop in the process. Doing so would give Jax a quick intercity rail connection between downtown and St. Augustine and set the stage for an Amtrak corridor service (assuming Trump doesn't kill Amtrak altogether).
When, and if, a corridor service materializes, advocate for stops at the Avenues and St. Augustine. Between Amtrak and Brightline, you'd end up with a defacto three station commuter/intercity rail corridor with more frequent headways than anything JTA will provide....and without significant, if any, local dedicated funding.
Then complement the intercity rail stops with the underutilized JTA Flyer BRT line down Philips to at least tie downtown and the Avenues together. This scenario allows you to market land around the rail stations and intermediate Flyer stops for nodal TOD, meaning you're getting more leverage out of an existing local transit investment. Overall, you'd end up with a poor man's scenario of Cleveland's Health Line BRT and RTA Red Line between downtown (Tower City) and University Circle (Little Italy to Windermere stations in map below).
(http://68.media.tumblr.com/9b97ab272fc61d5a471fd6bce9003aef/tumblr_o1ddy7shmP1r54c4oo1_1280.jpg)
I feel like this will help. It helps the people that want to pay and the others as well. less traffic in the "free" lanes as well. I just worry about bottleneck points when the Lexus lanes end.
The TOD opportunity along Phillips at I-95/I-295 is astounding.
We keep isolating our transit (read: highways) projects which have so little harmony with the development around them.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 18, 2017, 10:23:43 AM
The land use situation is a regional issue. However, it should certainly be coordinated with infrastructure investments being made by agencies such as the FDOT and JTA.
I agree wholeheartedly. But when your local municipality refuses to adopt any TOD, then the DOT is forced to take their own actions independently.
If we used the most basic of transit aggregation and TOD, we would be there by now.
In and around the Fuller Warren is where things really become a cluster normally, well that and getting onto JTB. I don't know how this will help except make traffic awful on that stretch for several years due to construction and create a new bottle neck at the worst point or traffic. I still don't understand the Beach flyover which consistently causes a traffic snarl as people swerve to get back onto 95 because they are confused and heading onto Beach. In a few years they will come back and tell us they f*cked this up too and need to change something for another $100 million.
Quote from: spuwho on April 18, 2017, 11:54:47 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on April 18, 2017, 10:23:43 AM
The land use situation is a regional issue. However, it should certainly be coordinated with infrastructure investments being made by agencies such as the FDOT and JTA.
I agree wholeheartedly. But when your local municipality refuses to adopt any TOD, then the DOT is forced to take their own actions independently.
If we used the most basic of transit aggregation and TOD, we would be there by now.
The mobility plan included approved comp plan changes that would allow for TOD style infill development. However, you're not going to get TOD without reliable fixed transit. The closest thing we have to fixed reliable transit is the Skyway and it doesn't extend outside of downtown. To add insult to injury, downtown was excluded from the mobility plan work back in 2011.
Quote from: FlaBoy on April 18, 2017, 12:44:43 PM
In and around the Fuller Warren is where things really become a cluster normally, well that and getting onto JTB. I don't know how this will help except make traffic awful on that stretch for several years due to construction and create a new bottle neck at the worst point or traffic. I still don't understand the Beach flyover which consistently causes a traffic snarl as people swerve to get back onto 95 because they are confused and heading onto Beach. In a few years they will come back and tell us they f*cked this up too and need to change something for another $100 million.
Not all 125,000+ cars will be on that particular 4-lane stretch of 95 downtown. According to the construction plans, there will be an additional 3 lanes constructed heading south on 95 that will handle the majority of volume passing through downtown. When you head south on 95 after the Fuller Warren past the San Marco exit, you will have one exit on the right which will be a Collector/Distributor exit (CD)which will give you access to the Beach Blvd exit and Phillips Hwy exit or you can get back on 95 as the CD will merge back with 95. That will be issue is 5+ lanes back down to 3 near Emerson.
Quote from: FlaBoy on April 18, 2017, 12:44:43 PMI still don't understand the Beach flyover which consistently causes a traffic snarl as people swerve to get back onto 95 because they are confused and heading onto Beach.
That is completely temporary.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Transit/Roads-and-Bridges/I-95-Overland-Bridge-2012/i-JKFb865/0/X2/Overland%20Bridge%206-X2.jpg)
Here's a video link showing the final configuration of the I-95 Overland Bridge project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ana_O2n9ENU
Quote from: thelakelander on April 18, 2017, 11:14:08 AM
Excluding interchange redesigns redesigns at Emerson, University and perhaps Bowden, I wonder if the addition of lanes can be done within existing ROW?
As for commuter rail, that would take place on the existing FEC line. However, I doubt it would be successful given the sprawled out nature of the Southside. Instead, I'd recommend lobbying for Brightline's expansion to Jax and getting a St. Augustine stop in the process. Doing so would give Jax a quick intercity rail connection between downtown and St. Augustine and set the stage for an Amtrak corridor service (assuming Trump doesn't kill Amtrak altogether).
When, and if, a corridor service materializes, advocate for stops at the Avenues and St. Augustine. Between Amtrak and Brightline, you'd end up with a defacto three station commuter/intercity rail corridor with more frequent headways than anything JTA will provide....and without significant, if any, local dedicated funding.
Then complement the intercity rail stops with the underutilized JTA Flyer BRT line down Philips to at least tie downtown and the Avenues together. This scenario allows you to market land around the rail stations and intermediate Flyer stops for nodal TOD, meaning you're getting more leverage out of an existing local transit investment. Overall, you'd end up with a poor man's scenario of Cleveland's Health Line BRT and RTA Red Line between downtown (Tower City) and University Circle (Little Italy to Windermere stations in map below).
(http://68.media.tumblr.com/9b97ab272fc61d5a471fd6bce9003aef/tumblr_o1ddy7shmP1r54c4oo1_1280.jpg)
You should go to the meeting to find out.
From JTB to about Bowden, the extra lanes fit. From Bowden to Emerson, there's minor anticipated ROW acquisition. From Emerson to Atlantic, the existing section is really tight, and more ROW is needed.
Then, of course, the ponds are another story. But FDOT is still evaluating pond acquisition, and is showing all pond alternatives possible.
Quote from: Dapperdan on April 18, 2017, 11:34:59 AM
I feel like this will help. It helps the people that want to pay and the others as well. less traffic in the "free" lanes as well. I just worry about bottleneck points when the Lexus lanes end.
A valid concern for sure. Additional aux lanes immediately before and after the entrances and exits of the Express Lanes help with density and speeds. An Express Lane doesn't help if you're exiting the lanes to a bottleneck. Add another lane, and that bottleneck congestion weakens at the exit point. Same theory on the entrance points too.
So with the improvements that Overland will (eventually) bring, and with the shiny new JTB flyover completed, the new bottle neck is this section. Hence, the need for this project.
Should be an interesting meeting tonight. The graphics are online for those who can't make it before the workshop ends at 6:30pm:
http://www.northfloridaexpress.com/PDE/Media
I can now see the concern of Englewood residents. Conceptual plans show a 12 lane highway between Emerson and Atlantic and some pretty large potential pond areas. It's a minimum of 10 lanes throughout, so yeah some residences will be lost. It will be interesting to see what the final product looks like in comparison.
Well, that's......interesting:
It seems like moving those walls would be really expensive. It seems like FDOT should have to make this work while leaving the wall. I get the six lanes though:
- 3 General Purpose
- 2 Express, merged back in
- the on-ramp from Emerson turns into a late
I think either they should dump the shoulder on the inside, or dump the sixth lane coming in.
It also seems VERY odd that the express lanes don't have access to JTB. Seems like a HUGE miss. I realize that you have to balance the amount of traffic coming into the lanes, but this doesn't make sense to me.
With regard to the ponds, couldn't they take it from the parking lot at Metro Square, and work with them on a one level garage? It seems strange to take houses versus using those awful-looking lots. I realize that the pond square footage overall is larger than the parking lot and it won't solve everything, but I've never been a fan of taking houses like this, especially when there is a lot of commercial property that is either vacant or underutilized.
Update: The Express lane users can technically get off at JTB when going south on I-95. I think it's going to be ugly though if many people get off of the express lane just south of Bowden, and have to come all the way over to use the exit.
Oh man, people are going to go ape shit over the diamond interchange at Emerson. Heads will explode. Someone also doesn't know their railroads either.
Quote from: acme54321 on April 26, 2017, 12:24:36 PM
Oh man, people are going to go ape shit over the diamond interchange at Emerson. Heads will explode. Someone also doesn't know their railroads either.
I've traveled through some of these in Atlanta. While it takes some getting used to, after a couple of trips, the system is pretty convenient and safe. It just requires the travel lanes to be well marked and (gulp) people paying attention.
Likes: Diverging Diamond interchange at Emerson.
Dislikes: Insane amount of ROW acquisition.
Quote from: dbjax on April 26, 2017, 01:02:24 PMI've traveled through some of these in Atlanta. While it takes some getting used to, after a couple of trips, the system is pretty convenient and safe. It just requires the travel lanes to be well marked and (gulp) people paying attention.
Oh I think they're great but whenever they are introduced to a new area the locals go crazy. It's entertaining. Just check the TU comments whenever they run an article on it.
I love the idea of the diamond interchanges. As far as people getting used to it, people have survived the ever-changing overland bridge construction traffic patterns, so I'm sure they'll be fine. Putting several of them throughout the city will help the transition happen quickly.
Didn't they use a diamond interchange at 295 and Old St. Augstine Rd?
I recently drove through there and it felt weird with both sides getting lights at the same time and crossing over lanes together. I survived and can definitely see how it allows less congestion at the signals.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Transportation/I-95-Express-Lanes/i-MjVNCrF/0/690d1eb5/XL/I-95%20EL%20-%20Typical%20Sections%20Board_JTB%20to%20Bowden-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Transportation/I-95-Express-Lanes/i-bmkmWpx/0/e368c293/XL/I-95%20EL%20-%20Typical%20Sections%20Board_North%20of%20Emerson-XL.jpg)
Why do they always target homes for ROW acquisition and not businesses? Those gas stations are dumps and the ponds could easily go there instead of making people move out of their homes.
I honestly think all of the express lane segments are going to be an absolute disaster. If you only have sections here and there it isn't going to work. The merging into and out of express lanes will cause just as much of a traffic slowdown as there is now.
I'd love to see some of the blighted commercial properties, like that old Days Inn off University taken out. However, I assume the residential properties are considered cheaper ROW. I also wonder if there's a way for NB traffic coming from JTB to access the toll lanes? Other than that, I can see a scenario where express lanes are extended from this project, all the way across the Fuller Warren Bridge. Nevertheless, where these lanes merge with the general lanes will probably end up being points of congestion. They tend to be a mess on I-95 during rush hour in Miami and Northern Virginia.
After looking at the sketches, I'm not sold on this project. I think they can do a lot better on the locations of the retention ponds, access to the express lanes and just the overall layout.
95N offramp to Bowden
Congestion happens because of the close proximity of two intersections: Offramp for traffic to turn left onto Bowden and Spring Park Rd/ Bowden. If anything, demolish the Speedway Gas Station to make it one intersection not two to create a better flow
Retention Ponds
I agree with Lake, take a look at a lot of commercial properties not in the best of shape as well as the property at University and 95. That corner hasn't been developed in 10+ years after an old hotel was demolished.
Bowden on ramp to 95S
Motorist are going to try to cross three+ lanes of traffic to catch the JTB flyover, I think there is a better way to avoid that by having a barrier to prevent this and direct cars to utilize the JTB off ramp.
Express Lanes
I guess the project is designed for no access between the starting and ending points which means a lot of bottlenecking will happen once these lanes merge with the general purpose lanes.
Did anyone attend and if so, did they elaborate on any of these?
I wanted to attend but the workshop ended at 6:30pm. On a regular day, the earliest I get off is at 6pm. Once I noticed the material was online, I decided to keep working on my deadlines.
Quote from: Steve on April 26, 2017, 12:08:11 PM
Well, that's......interesting:
It seems like moving those walls would be really expensive. It seems like FDOT should have to make this work while leaving the wall. I get the six lanes though:
- 3 General Purpose
- 2 Express, merged back in
- the on-ramp from Emerson turns into a late
I think either they should dump the shoulder on the inside, or dump the sixth lane coming in.
It also seems VERY odd that the express lanes don't have access to JTB. Seems like a HUGE miss. I realize that you have to balance the amount of traffic coming into the lanes, but this doesn't make sense to me.
With regard to the ponds, couldn't they take it from the parking lot at Metro Square, and work with them on a one level garage? It seems strange to take houses versus using those awful-looking lots. I realize that the pond square footage overall is larger than the parking lot and it won't solve everything, but I've never been a fan of taking houses like this, especially when there is a lot of commercial property that is either vacant or underutilized.
A WB JTB flyover to NB I-95 EL is not technically in the project...yet. The envelope is there, the concept is there...but the money just isn't...yet. FDOT realizes this, and is shuffling funds to make it happen.
Quote from: Steve on April 26, 2017, 12:09:48 PM
Update: The Express lane users can technically get off at JTB when going south on I-95. I think it's going to be ugly though if many people get off of the express lane just south of Bowden, and have to come all the way over to use the exit.
Nope. No lane shifts necessary for SB I-95 EL to the new flyover to WB JTB. The egress lane becomes the inside left lane on the flyover.
Quote from: Jim on April 26, 2017, 01:29:41 PM
Likes: Diverging Diamond interchange at Emerson.
Dislikes: Insane amount of ROW acquisition.
Expect for the actual ROW acquisition to be about 1/3 of what is shown now for ponds.
Quote from: brainstormer on April 26, 2017, 09:01:13 PM
Why do they always target homes for ROW acquisition and not businesses? Those gas stations are dumps and the ponds could easily go there instead of making people move out of their homes.
I honestly think all of the express lane segments are going to be an absolute disaster. If you only have sections here and there it isn't going to work. The merging into and out of express lanes will cause just as much of a traffic slowdown as there is now.
Although I don't know the actual situation on this project, I can shed some light.
Just looking at this project, the south half of the project is almost all commercial. The north half has much more residential communities. Sometimes, residential properties are cheaper than commercial properties for ROW acquisition. However, moving expenses and other residential-specific costs can quickly add up. But so can business damages as well. So there really isn't any "targeting" of specific properties. Gas stations, billboards, and dense active commercial developments with multiple businesses (like Metro Park at Emerson) are typically avoided, but sometimes the numbers can work out.
Gas stations sites do not make good stormwater pond site locations. Contamination is expensive to clean up, so the site location doesn't score well when evaluating different pond site locations.
Notice at the ingress/egress of the Express Lanes that an additional aux lane is added to reduce congestion at the connectivity point between GPLs and ELs. Miami figured this out the hard way. Take a look at the concept again. For NB I-95, there's only one ingress and one egress. For SB I-95, there's one ingress and two egresses (one for JTB and one to push past JTB). So there really isn't a bunch of merging traffic in and out.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 26, 2017, 09:46:43 PM
I'd love to see some of the blighted commercial properties, like that old Days Inn off University taken out. However, I assume the residential properties are considered cheaper ROW. I also wonder if there's a way for NB traffic coming from JTB to access the toll lanes? Other than that, I can see a scenario where express lanes are extended from this project, all the way across the Fuller Warren Bridge. Nevertheless, where these lanes merge with the general lanes will probably end up being points of congestion. They tend to be a mess on I-95 during rush hour in Miami and Northern Virginia.
See my last couple of posts for responses to your comments.
Also, there's currently no plan to extend ELs to the north to the Fuller Warren, to the best of my knowledge. There's simply not enough room thru Overland, other than repurposing GPLs to ELs.
Quote from: Jagsdrew on April 27, 2017, 11:42:16 AM
After looking at the sketches, I'm not sold on this project. I think they can do a lot better on the locations of the retention ponds, access to the express lanes and just the overall layout.
95N offramp to Bowden
Congestion happens because of the close proximity of two intersections: Offramp for traffic to turn left onto Bowden and Spring Park Rd/ Bowden. If anything, demolish the Speedway Gas Station to make it one intersection not two to create a better flow
Retention Ponds
I agree with Lake, take a look at a lot of commercial properties not in the best of shape as well as the property at University and 95. That corner hasn't been developed in 10+ years after an old hotel was demolished.
Bowden on ramp to 95S
Motorist are going to try to cross three+ lanes of traffic to catch the JTB flyover, I think there is a better way to avoid that by having a barrier to prevent this and direct cars to utilize the JTB off ramp.
Express Lanes
I guess the project is designed for no access between the starting and ending points which means a lot of bottlenecking will happen once these lanes merge with the general purpose lanes.
Did anyone attend and if so, did they elaborate on any of these?
Interchange improvements at Bowden and University are still under study. Apparently there's heavy truck traffic getting off at Bowden that backs up on I-95. Stay tuned.
That might need to be a long barrier wall to prevent access to the JTB flyover from Bowden.
As I posted before, aux lanes are added to reduce density/congestion at the egress of the ELs to reduce bottlenecking.
^Based off some of the EL projects in South Florida, I would not be surprised if a few Overland Bridge and Fuller Warren GPLs are converted to ELs at a later date. I suspect the need for a connection will come when ELs eventually end up on future projects like ELs on I-10.
One final note on the ponds...
FDOT showed many different pond site locations to solicit feedback from the public. Sometimes residents WANT to be bought out to move, which makes their properties excellent pond site locations since the ROW acquisition process is streamlined. Unfortunately, the only way to solicit feedback from the public is to show a huge stormwater pond on their property to notify them. It's sad, but true. If all of these ponds were not shown at the meeting, many people wouldn't be showing up, and FDOT might miss out on valuable public feedback. If you're for the project, you won't show up to the meeting. Typically only the folks against the project show up in masses, and those are the folks FDOT is reaching out to listen to.