http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/news/2017/04/05/heres-how-the-cross-bay-ferry-is-performing-close.html?ana=twt
Tampa and St. Pete seem to be having a lot of success with their new cross-bay ferry service.
Is there anything that makes sense for Jax?
I can't see a whole lot of "from" and "to" destinations, personally. When we were in Brisbane a decade ago, they had a whole fleet of catamarans ("CityCats") that ran up and down the river, just like buses. However, they had SO many places right on the river. A local university, downtown, the convention center, etc. It actually made sense, for them. While I think it would be cool, I am just not visualizing all the places that would make it viable.
Ferries for Transit tend to work in areas that just don't make sense for a bridge/tunnel. Some examples:
- Staten Island Ferry (connecting Staten Island with Battery Park in Manhattan)
- Seattle Ferries (connecting Bainbridge/Bremerton with Seattle)
- Boston Commuter Ferries (connecting Hingham and Hull to Boston
In all three cases, a bridge/tunnel or some sort of land connection is either impractical or is a long way out of the way. It isn't used to supplement a parallel highway. There was a JTA study on a ferry from Clay County to downtown, but that died as far as I know.
Locally, the Mayport Ferry used to be used much more by commuters, before the Dames Point bridge was built. Now I imagine there are people that do commute that distance, but I have to imagine they're few and far between as Atlantic Blvd/295/Dames Point/Heckscher all flow pretty well even during rush hour (At least well enough that the time to load a boat and cross the river isn't worth it).
The most logical would be Green Cove to the Northbank.
I just don't think there is enough demand to warrant it.
Besides, ferry makers/operators typically dont bribe or entice politicos to build ferry routes because they dont support the requisite association of gas stations, Arbys, McD's, developers, warehouses, big box strip malls that our fearless leaders are used to seeing when building the alternatives.
JTA did a pretty extensive water transit ferry study back in 2007-2008. It may still be on their website. Not sure.
You need multiple high density destinations along the river without easy vehicular access for ferry's to become a valid transportation system.
Quote from: Jim on April 12, 2017, 01:31:41 PM
You need multiple high density destinations along the river without easy vehicular access for ferry's to become a valid transportation system.
^This!
The Tampa/St. Pete situation and Jax's landscape are apples and oranges, IMO. Down there, they're directly linking two major downtown districts (both of which have more active downtown waterfronts than Jax's) with a 50 minute ride across the Bay, while also partnering up with the local MLB and NHL franchises to promote. Their ferry appears to be used by tourist and special event guests moreso than everyday commuting. In Jax, what exactly would be the other terminus spot outside of DT Jax and what destinations do we have (outside of the CBD) that could possibly partner up to promote ticket sales?
Maybe St. Augustine and Jax Beach (around Beach Blvd) via the Intercoastal to St. Johns River to DT? It probably doesn't make sense now but you never know in the future.
Why not just run a bus in the short term and advocate for a St. Augustine stop for intercity rail (Ex. Brightline or Amtrak) in the long term? There's no real economic benefit out there for running a boat from DT to Jax Beach and St. Augustine.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 12, 2017, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Jim on April 12, 2017, 01:31:41 PM
You need multiple high density destinations along the river without easy vehicular access for ferry's to become a valid transportation system.
^This!
The Tampa/St. Pete situation and Jax's landscape are apples and oranges, IMO. Down there, they're directly linking two major downtown districts (both of which have more active downtown waterfronts than Jax's) with a 50 minute ride across the Bay, while also partnering up with the local MLB and NHL franchises to promote. Their ferry appears to be used by tourist and special event guests moreso than everyday commuting. In Jax, what exactly would be the other terminus spot outside of DT Jax and what destinations do we have (outside of the CBD) that could possibly partner up to promote ticket sales?
Isn't the river taxi providing this service already?
A ferry and a water taxi are two different things. DT Tampa also has a water taxi service in addition to the pilot ferry project. However, their urban landscape is completely different from Jax's.
(http://www.tampabay.com/resources/images/dti/rendered/2016/02/500429934_16679790_8col.jpg)
Quote from: FlaBoy on April 12, 2017, 04:15:54 PM
Maybe St. Augustine and Jax Beach (around Beach Blvd) via the Intercoastal to St. Johns River to DT? It probably doesn't make sense now but you never know in the future.
Trip times would be insane.
The 20 mile jaunt between St Pete and Tampa is 20 miles and takes ~50 minutes.
Jax DT to Beach Blvd Intracoastal is well more than 20 miles and to St Aug would easily surpass 50 miles.
Quote from: FlaBoy on April 12, 2017, 11:24:40 AM
http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/news/2017/04/05/heres-how-the-cross-bay-ferry-is-performing-close.html?ana=twt
Tampa and St. Pete seem to be having a lot of success with their new cross-bay ferry service.
Interesting perspective. Not sure I agree.
Quote from: Jim on April 13, 2017, 01:40:07 PM
Quote from: FlaBoy on April 12, 2017, 04:15:54 PM
Maybe St. Augustine and Jax Beach (around Beach Blvd) via the Intercoastal to St. Johns River to DT? It probably doesn't make sense now but you never know in the future.
Trip times would be insane.
The 20 mile jaunt between St Pete and Tampa is 20 miles and takes ~50 minutes.
Jax DT to Beach Blvd Intracoastal is well more than 20 miles and to St Aug would easily surpass 50 miles.
Just curious - how long does the Tampa - St Pete trip take by car? I lived in Tampa for 6 months over 15 years ago, so I can't recall. I seem to remember the trip to downtown St Pete taking less than an hour from my apartment in Hyde Park. But I didn't make the trip very often.
If it's not rush hour, maybe 20 to 25 minutes or so. Btw, their pilot ferry isn't being used for commuting. The numbers also aren't that high.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 15, 2017, 07:16:55 AM
If it's not rush hour, maybe 20 to 25 minutes or so. Btw, their pilot ferry isn't being used for commuting. The numbers also aren't that high.
Seems like it couldn't be that useful as a working ferry if it takes twice as long as driving. Maybe it's a more pleasant journey, though.
It's not a ferry used for commuting. From St. Pete, on Monday through Friday, you can ride to Tampa three times a day (12pm, 4pm and 10:30pm). From Tampa, you can ride to St. Pete two times a day (1:15pm and 5:30pm).
https://crossbayferry.com/schedule-rates/
I think sometimes, we see the word "ferry" and automatically assume its used for commuting. It is a pleasant journey for a tourist though.
QuoteThe word "ferry" might conjure a giant vessel filled with rows on rows of sleepy commuters. Basically, a floating subway car.
It's also possible that "ferry" brings to mind an image of fun. You're holding a cocktail purchased on board. Smiling people are wearing shorts.
The Cross-Bay Ferry, which began service between downtown Tampa and downtown St. Petersburg in November, is a little of both. You can commute to work on the Cross-Bay Ferry, but the vibe catching on is the latter one. The ferry is fun. It's filled with rows of high-backed, cushioned seats, big tables, and outdoor space. And how's this for a Tampa Bay touch: the bar serves locally brewed craft beer.
Ridership data released in January shows that more than 13,000 passengers traveled in November and December combined. Organizers said about half of all the ferry's riders have cruised on weekends, mostly a mix of tourists and residents out for recreation.
"I think this area has kind of a traditional notion of what transit is," said Cross-Bay Ferry project advisor Ed Turanchik. "People tend to think it's about commuters, but in most places with more mature transportation systems, transit is for all markets. The commuter market will always be difficult here, because it's a limited market and we only have one boat."
The Cross-Bay Ferry is a $1.4 million, six-month pilot program, the cost split among Hillsborough and Pinellas counties and the cities of St. Petersburg and Tampa. Running through April 30, it tests demand for both recreational riders and commuters.
Full article: http://www.tampabay.com/things-to-do/travel/florida/we-tried-the-cross-bay-ferry-for-errands-and-fun-heres-what-happened/2313146
Quote from: thelakelander on April 15, 2017, 08:28:21 AM
It's not a ferry used for commuting. From St. Pete, you can ride to Tampa three times a day (12pm, 4pm and 10:30pm). From Tampa, you can ride to St. Pete two times a day (1:15pm and 5:30pm).
https://crossbayferry.com/schedule-rates/
I think sometimes, we see the word "ferry" and automatically assume its used for commuting. It is a pleasant journey for a tourist though.
QuoteThe word "ferry" might conjure a giant vessel filled with rows on rows of sleepy commuters. Basically, a floating subway car.
It's also possible that "ferry" brings to mind an image of fun. You're holding a cocktail purchased on board. Smiling people are wearing shorts.
The Cross-Bay Ferry, which began service between downtown Tampa and downtown St. Petersburg in November, is a little of both. You can commute to work on the Cross-Bay Ferry, but the vibe catching on is the latter one. The ferry is fun. It's filled with rows of high-backed, cushioned seats, big tables, and outdoor space. And how's this for a Tampa Bay touch: the bar serves locally brewed craft beer.
Ridership data released in January shows that more than 13,000 passengers traveled in November and December combined. Organizers said about half of all the ferry's riders have cruised on weekends, mostly a mix of tourists and residents out for recreation.
"I think this area has kind of a traditional notion of what transit is," said Cross-Bay Ferry project advisor Ed Turanchik. "People tend to think it's about commuters, but in most places with more mature transportation systems, transit is for all markets. The commuter market will always be difficult here, because it's a limited market and we only have one boat."
The Cross-Bay Ferry is a $1.4 million, six-month pilot program, the cost split among Hillsborough and Pinellas counties and the cities of St. Petersburg and Tampa. Running through April 30, it tests demand for both recreational riders and commuters.
Full article: http://www.tampabay.com/things-to-do/travel/florida/we-tried-the-cross-bay-ferry-for-errands-and-fun-heres-what-happened/2313146
I guess I just don't see the point of a ferry, unless it's necessary. They usually exist in areas where a bridge could be but isn't. I've never ridden a ferry for pleasure, I don't think.
Correct! A ferry going up and down the St. Johns in Jax makes no sense because we don't have viable destinations and since we have bridges now, excluding Mayport, you don't need one to get to the other side of the river. I've taken a ferry for pleasure. It's just like taking the water taxi downtown, driving on a new street, biking on a new cycle track or hopping on a new rail system and riding it just for the sake of riding it. Not something you do everyday but something that can be included from a recreational/leisure perspective.
The Star Ferry in Hong Kong's Discovery Bay is Tripadvisor's #2 Thing to do in Hong Kong. Seems like everyone I talk to recommends it. And you pay extra to sit in the upper deck iirc.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 15, 2017, 08:44:16 AM
Correct! A ferry going up and down the St. Johns in Jax makes no sense because we don't have viable destinations and since we have bridges now, excluding Mayport, you don't need one to get to the other side of the river. I've taken a ferry for pleasure. It's just like taking the water taxi downtown, driving on a new street, biking on a new cycle track or hopping on a new rail system and riding it just for the sake of riding it. Not something you do everyday but something that can be included from a recreational/leisure perspective.
+1