Fake look alike tickets part of money grab scam?
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/parking/parking-ticket.jpg)
Downtown parking lot operators, including Central Parking System (http://www.parking.com/), are engaging in the questionably legal act of issuing their own parking tickets to downtown visitors and residents. These parking citations are designed to look like an official city citation, but instead of directing the payment to the tax collector, as required by law, it illegally demands that payment be made to Central Parking System, located at 550 Water St. Suite 1343 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q hl=en q=550+water+street,+jacksonville,+fl sll=37.0625,-95.677068 sspn=50.956929,82.265625 layer= ie=UTF8 z=19 ll=30.326184,-81.66492 spn=0.001711,0.00339 t=k om=1 iwloc=addr).
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http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/368
I got one of those and now I'm not paying it!!
Yea, my first day working downtown last summer I didn't know which parking lot I was allowed to park in, picked the wrong one (albeit one which was 3/4 vacant), and when I went to move my car at lunch there was a ticket waiting for me.
So, if it's not paid can they actually seek out legal action or report you to a credit bureau?
Anybody can seek legal action against anyone else for any reason. But.... in order to prevail, that legal action must have some reasonable basis and not be built on deceit or a fairy tale. This is the most ridiculous and outrageous bit of borderline criminal activity being perpetrated in plain sight that I have seen in a while. The short answer is that you would have to be crazy to pay this, and as i see it Central Parking Systems may have made themselves a prime target for a class action lawsuit seeking treble damages. Also BTW, violations of the FDCPA are subject to very high fines from the feds.
great story
I used to respect the articles on this website but the inferences and faulty legal conclusions drawn here have negated that. The reason the tickets look similar is because Central Parking System has a contract with the same ticket issuance company as the city and therefore is supplied the same hardware, software and paper tickets. Central Parking System or any other private parking operator has the right to control their private property, pure and simple. A parking facility is a product which costs overhead to operate, similar to a flower shop that sells flowers. Nobody would suggest you just waltz in and take any flower arrangement you want without paying--that is stealing. The same applies to parking and the most effective way CPS has to control theft of parking services is to issue parking notices.
So, If I see you commit a crime on my property, can I jump into my Policeman's suit and "Arrest" you?
Nobody is talking about infringing on property rights, but private businessed can not give citations under the guise of a city citation.
The most effective way Central Parking can control theft of parking services is by towing, not by issuing fake tickets. The only problem with towing is that CPS does not see revenue, so for them it is more effective to issue phony tickets. You are not allowed to recover MORE than costs you have incurred unless those punitive damages are awarded by a jury, which would clearly not happen in a fake parking ticket situation.
Yes, by law you would be able to act to protect your property. And again, your mistaken assumption is that it is a "guise" to fool citizens into thinking that it is a city citation. Private parking companies in core business districts have controlled their parking lots with parking notices for well over 40 years. It's real simple, if you park on a private parking lot without paying then you are in effect stealing their product and they have every right to attempt to control it. If you don't want the ticket then don't park on the lot--or pay for the service when you do.
D Neal, what exactly are these "parking notices"? Are they citations, or are they bills?
To compare walking into a florist shop and removing a flower arrangement to parking on an unprotected vacant lot and implying that something is being stolen is ridiculous, moronic and retarded. In civil law a claim for damages must be substantiated by showing what damages have occurred. since the lot was not open for business, and since there was no competition for spaces (i.e.) the parked car is not displacing a paying customer, and there is no protective fencing around the lot to stop anyone from parking there, it would not be possible to prove in a court of law that any financial loss occurred. Punitive damages are not allowed in small claims court (which is where a ridiculous case like this would be adjudicated), only actual damages. Since there are no actual damages the case would be dismissed as being without legal basis.
As to the fact that they have been doing this for over 40 years you're lucky that you didn't get caught any sooner.
The posting above by D. Neal is so stupid and nonsensical that it is beyond the comprehension of a reasonable and normal person, for any of that to make sense, you'd have to be crazy!
Wow! what a dope!
i've received a couple of these, and i just toss them. they can put them on your car all they want, i guess, but they have no way of legally making you pay them. it's pretty obvious that they put these on cars to scare people into thinking that they must be paid.
The parking notices are past due bills, actually. I do not work for CPS or in parking in general but did work in parking in a past career. Clancy Systems is a ticket issuance company that has the best technology and is the most cost effective so a lot of private companies and municipalities use them, including CPS and City of JAX, that's why the tickets are similar. If I remember correctly for the notices to be conforming they had to be in a differently colored envelope than a municipal parking violation and could not be labeled as a "violation" or "ticket". And JohnQ, a private parking company could revenue share with a towing company, and some do. Most companies view towing as extreme, but some do immobilize cars with a "boot" the first time they catch the car on the lot without payment.
If you don't want people parking in your lot after hours, then put a fence around it or tow the cars. These fake parking citations are just a way to raise money for nothing.
Mr. Parking expert, answer me this: what makes a parking space in a lot that is closed worth 5X what it is worth when the lot is open?? How exactly does that equation work? Is it the law of reverse supply and demand? The less somebody wants something, the more it is worth? I guess that they follow super advanced post doctoral economic theories that the average Joe is incapable of understanding.
I assume that these tickets are being written on Central Parking's "Honor Lots," where you drop money in a box, instead of pay an attendant?
I would agree with other comments that trying to issue a ticket with *inflated* damages on an honor lot has a clear element of bad faith. The logical presumption is that Central Parking finds it more lucrative to issue increased fines, rather than pay for towing services. I doubt that a court would enforce any fine greater than the value of that lot's one day parking fee.
However, if Central Parking is issuing $10 tickets on a $10 all-day lot, then the tickets are basically valid and enforceable (if they bothered to sue you).
Yeah, I used to work in parking too, but I also got a better job flipping burgers.
I guess that you will be the famous "average Joe"
The bottom line is that if you are parking on private property and there is posted signage, you have to play by the property owner or operator's rules. If you don't like those rules, go park somewhere else. Is that so hard to comprehend Jack?
Breaking the law to enforce "rules" is probably not a good idea.
If these are not citations, but merely "overdue bills", why are they created with the same equipment the city uses to issue parking citations? No other company puts overdue bills on cars that are printed from a machine designed to issue citations. Central Parking needs to stop this deceitful and probably illegal practice.
Maybe if they invested in a gate they wouldn't have this issue... wait a minute... then they couldn't issue overdue parking ticket bills. hmm... what a bunch of crooks.
With regard to posted signage and the like, if the business is closed, but access to the lot is unimpeded, the legal conclusion is that because of the absence of gates or barriers, parking on the property at that time has no commercial value. In fact if there were commercial value and there were a supply of customers then there is no reason for the business to be closed. If, in fact there is some overarching reason that automobiles should be kept off of the property while the business is not in operation, then barriers should be erected. Using your logic, this surface parking lot could be declared an attractive nuisance, and as such could be ordered demolished. Oops, I'm sorry, there's nothing to demolish, its just a paved over vacant lot. Well then, so much for just waltzing in and stealing the pavement from the ground. Please explain to me how you could make a case for financial loss from taking up a parking space that nobody else wants in an unprotected vacant lot while the business is closed. If you don't want people in your lot THEN PUT UP A FENCE! I think that this issue would be a good basis for a class action lawsuit. The parking companies are really extremely foolish to deliberately wander into this minefield. The only reason that they have gotten away with this BS for so long is that everyone who is supposed to be looking out for the public's interests has been in a 40 year sleep.
Congrats on posting a comment without the basis of your argument being insults and insulting the mentally handicapped. What a display of class on your part.
In parking the privilege of leaving your car on a specific property is the product. Just because demand isn't high at specific times does not mean it should then be had for free. Parking is a business! To operate a parking lot you pay rent to the owner, carry insurance, maintain the surface and equipment, etc. Most times the profit margin on a parking lot is less than 5-10%. To pay the bills each customer needs to be a paying customer. It's not that they don't want people on the lot, the lot is a product and customers are only welcome if they purchase the parking as the signage instructs. The business never closes unless the signage states otherwise. Large publicly traded companies like CPS, Standard Parking, Republic Parking have been operating like this for years. It is extremely myopic for you to not think that every legal issue regarding this has not been settled in the courts yet. Again, I must mention that if you do not wish to follow the rules posted you are welcome to find an alternative place to leave your car. You have a choice to not frequent the business and to possibly park for free if you wish. Don't blame them for operating a business just because you don't understand it.
Well, then, thank you for instructing me on the logistics of the parking industry. Now allow me to explain to you what the surface parking business is really about.
When there is an unadorned surface parking lot in a metropolitan area, it exists for one reason and one reason only. As a land bank. The owner of the property deliberately has no permanent structures upon the property so that it can be taxed as a piece of unimproved property. to say that a 5% margin of profit is realized is totally beside the point . the point is that the land is held fallow as the property values increase around it. the parking fees are only meant to pay the taxes on the land. Anything over and above that is pure gravy and not a part of the original business equation. In its most perfect iteration this strategy is a part of a larger plan called an assemblage, wherein a more or less contiguous property is dotted with these innocuous parking establishments, each one seemingly a separate corporate entity. At some point, an interceding building becomes available, at which time the parking operators purchase it, and then, having enough land footprint for a large building, proceed to construct that large building. these plans can typically take 20-30 years in a dense metropolitan area, but holding onto the land in the form of a surface parking lot costs nothing. Even insurance costs are minimal because there is no structure to insure, and land won't catch fire. I think that you are trying to imply that multi story parking structure and surface parking lots have the same business model, which is incorrect.
Taking your argument that parking is a product with value, then a reasonable person would take precautions to insure that that valuable product would not be stolen. For instance, if a person were to operate a jewelry store, that person would have his merchandise stored in a safe after business hours, that person would have a locked door at the entrance to the establishment, and that person would in all likelihood have a security system installed on the premises to alert the authorities in the event of criminal activity. All of these precautions would be rational and reasonable because of the presence of something of value that could be taken by thieves.
In the case of a vacant and closed surface parking lot in the middle of a deserted downtown after normal business hours, there is nothing of value to be taken. There is practically zero demand for these spaces. the very reason that the establishment is closed is precisely because there is no demand for the service. it would be foolish to remain open, because the parking fees would not even cover the attendants salary.
in point of fact the parking resource existent in that surface lot is of such low value during non business hours that the property owner has chosen not to erect even the most perfunctory barrier to entry to the property, which would not be very costly at all. The conclusion to be drawn form this is that the property owner has come to the realization that paying to erect a barrier to protect something of zero value would be foolish and counterproductive.
As to your assertion that a service is being stolen, the problem with that thought process is that in order to steal something, it must first have value. The property owner has come to the conclusion that there is no value, otherwise he would be controlling access to the property.
So in summation, I think that you will need to enroll in Parking University for a brush up course in parking lot business model management 101.
Sorry that you feel insulted. But on the other hand, do you think it wise that anyone should put any credence in the opinions of a mentally challenged person with regard to the complex issues of property rights/civil law/adverse possession/theft of services/real estate development/taxation issues/etc? While i recognize that every person, including the mentally challenged is entitled to personal dignity, there are some matters that are just too complex for a person who is developmentally disabled to deal with, although you seem to be functioning on a very high level indeed.
Isn't it marvelous that All matters relating to the parking industry and every aspect of their behavior has been previously litigated (in their favor I'm sure) as stated in a prior post. Perhaps we could employ the far ranging wisdom of the Jacksonville parking industry leaders to solve the remaining judicial and constitutional dilemmas facing our country, and perhaps extend that intuitiveness and brilliance to world political and diplomatic matters as well. While they are at it, how about looking into those 20,000 or so small asteroid size objects in space that are headed towards earth? Maybe we could tow them away?
As usual your logic isn't too shoddy but you completely miss the point. A parking lot is private property, operated by an entity for monetary gain. Whether you assign value to the parking space at any given time during the day is immaterial, if you decide to park YOUR car on THEIR property you have chosen to play by their rules...so nonpayment will result in a parking notice, towing or whatever the sign says will happen.
The shrill nature of your commentary and your insistence on labeling anybody with a different view as "developmentally disabled" reveals you to be a complete rube and largely unfit for polite society. Odds are you are a starving artist slash intellectual with an inability to pony up the requisite parking fee and have ended up on the wrong side of a parking notice or two.
So, as the comic once said "here's your sign". Go park free somewhere else.
The real issue here is whether it is deceitful and/or legal for a company to issue a bill that masquerades as an official parking ticket. A slight change in the color of the envelope is clearly not a big enough distinction.
Oh OK . So thats the real issue now. What happened to all of the other red herring real issues that you previously raised? I guess that they have fallen by the wayside then.
The real issues are as follows:
1. You are incapable of comprehending how the legal system in this country operates.
2. The company that is issuing these phony tickets is doing so using deceptive and misleading practices. Why don't they clearly identify the fact that the citation is just a normal bill?
3. Your protestations to the contrary, your vociferous defense of these practices belies a deeper connection to the perpetrators of this sham than you admit to.
4. How can a commodity with zero demand be worth 4-5 X what it is worth when there is demand.
While you are at it, since you are a taxpayer, and therefore by extension a part owner of city land, why don't you go to the city parks and start issuing overdue rent bills to the vagrants that have taken up residence there?
If you check your previous post, you will see that I did not label you developmentally disabled. You labeled yourself as such, here is the quote:
**************************************************************************************************
"Jack
written by DNeal, Friday, March 09, 2007 at 06:24:52 PM
Congrats on posting a comment without the basis of your argument being insults and insulting the mentally handicapped. What a display of class on your part."
************************************************************************************************
I think that your assiduous refusal to address the core issues and reliance on repeating the mantra about parking being a business and private property and the like just serves to disguise the above core issues.
There are legal and legitimate ways to accomplish the same result, but the operators of these establishments have chosen to utilize deceptive means instead. Your assertion that all of these techniques have been tested in the courts, I'm sure that Bernie Ebbers and Ken Lay said the same thing.
All they need to do is insert the following statement (or something like it): on their phony ticket:
"You are trespassing on private property. We have determined that the value of that theft of our private resource is 5X the normal going rate. Here is your bill for that amount. We have no legal authority to compel you to pay this bill other than going through the normal civil law procedures, such as small claims court. Just because we don't have a fence around our property and for all practical purposes it looks like an abandoned field, it is not. You are wearing off the lines on the pavement. This is an attempt to collect a consumer debt, and you have certain rights under state and federal law with regard to this debt"
There, something lie that. I am sure that once they read that, they will understand and pay right up.
Drop the thesauras for a moment and answer my question, Jack. Why not just park on another lot? You accuse me of being incapable comprehending the legal system all the while not understanding the most fundemental part of all--private property. I tell you what, the next time you need $5 to park I'll gladly lend it to you, and while you're at it work on your resume (try to keep inflammatory comments and clumsy legalese to a minimum) and I'll forward it to some key individuals who can offer gainful employment for you.
I know by the nature of your postings you must be an all-around good guy and a real asset to the downtown community and a job would take you away from that but imagine the rush of pride and self-worth you will feel when you pay for your own parking space. It will be an epiphany of sorts I promise.
Despite all the mental jockeying going on here, it's really quite a simple issue.
The parking entity is issuing tickets that are deceptively similar to city-issued tickets. Their hope is to fool consumers into paying these fake tickets in an attempt at a quick money-grab scheme. As someone else pointed out already, the lot's only legally-binding recourse is to have the cars towed...a practice for which they receive no money. So while I see what they are trying to do, it is a shady practice which probably violates any number of consumer protection laws.
As for the consumer, quit violating the parking lot's policies or risk getting towed. The tickets are not legally binding, so throw them away if you get one. And be prepared to fight the charge because a company that would issue phony tickets certainly wouldn't have any moral opposition to reporting you to a credit agency.
Can they submit the unpaid "bill" to a collector for collection? sure they can, but its not a debt in a true sense, like a credit card debt, so they will not be able to report it on a credit bureau as an unpaid debt. To do so would violate the Fair Credit Reporting Act and open them up for a suit.
The issuance of these "bills" that look official could violate the FDCPA in the sense that they simulate legal process or appear to be an official government document. Its uncertain whether or not the company that is doing the citing is actually the creditor, but if not and the company doing the citing and collecting is someone other than the creditor itself, then they are engaged in the collection of consumer debts and are subject to the Florida laws relating to collection of debt and the Federal law, the FDCPA.
The fact that they've been doing this for "over 40 years" means to me that its policy and is a widespread practice that if found to violate collection laws, could open them up to a huge class action suit which would probably end Central Parking corp.
If it were me, I wouldn't pay it and then see if they use any other illegal collection tactics to collect this "debt" then sue them. It wouldn't suprise me if they tried an official looking letter to follow the non-payment of the "ticket".
Thanks for validating some of my thoughts on this subject. Apparently you have some professional background in the consumer debt collection field.
Aren't violations of the FDCPA subject to very large fines per incident? I don't know about the specifics of these things because I'm just a poor starving artist that everyone hates (street mime).
Actually the FCC handles the fines if they decide to pursue an action against a debt collector. Those fines can be very large. However most of the time an individual sues. The statutory fine is only $500, but the collection firms sued have to pay attorney's fees and those can be quite substantial, particularly in class action suits.
Yes to the background, one of the worst offenders......not anymore though.
QuoteGuiding Principles: Enhance Quality of Life
Great Ideas: Please pass this on to Mayor John Payton... Dear Mayor John Payton. Can you please help with the scam taking place at parking lot 189 managed by Central parking Systems. The only visable money box for paying your fees is located right next to where we parked. After paying the fees by sliding the money in the little slots with a tool provided we got a $30 dollar ticket on our car when we returned. The correct box to pay is out of site below all the car roofs and far away from where you walk out. Complaints to Ted Cible at 904-356-9841 and CPS were laught at. How many people are getting scamed every day. Everyone who visits the city is a potential victim of this scam. It is a big money maker for them. Plus the other other parking lot that I did pay is getting additional unjust money. Can you help correct the problem and cancel the abusive ticketing. Many of us are on extream budgets and can not afford this scam. Thank you, Ray Shelton.
Mayor's Update:
Quote
From: Peyton, John
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 2:34 PM
To: Carle, Robert
Subject: FW: Great Ideas
Can you look into this matter on my behalf? Many thanks!
Quote
Thank you for taking the time to bring this matter to our attention, Mayor Peyton has asked me to respond.
As you pointed out in your e-mail, this particular lot is owned and operated by Central Parking Systems. While we have no jurisdiction over such privately operated businesses, as one might expect, we have established a working rapport with the operators. To that end, I will gladly address this matter with them and request their cooperation in making the lot more user-friendly.
If you encounter any more difficulties with respect to parking in the downtown area, please feel free to keep my name and number handy and I will work diligently in trying to correct them.
Sincerely,
Robert A. Carle
Division Chief
Parking Facilities and Enforcement Division
231 E. Forsyth St.
Jacksonville, Fl. 32202
(904) 630-1399
Wow. YOU MUST BE LUCKY. If you did park there, and I'm not saying you did, and didn't pay, which you may or may not have done, then you're lucky you only got a what? $20.00 'BILL' instead of being towed at what 70 plus the hassle of finding your car in the middle of shadytown?
gezz, not paying is like theft of service. are you a theif? then pay the man.
Damn, you guys litigated this and I feel like a judge listening after reading briefs....
If someone is parking on a "closed" lot then it is tresspass, yes, but if it is tresspass then their option is to call the police and charge them, or tow them if clearly posted. To present something that can be taken for or mistaken as a legal ticket is to present themselves as a legal authority, and that is illegal.
maybe the solution is to remove the need to use unfenced open spaces closed at night be insuring that there is parking available, and since there is a relaxed tax structure for parking lots and they run as a business making profit maybe they should pay more in taxes for that right. The mind set that allows so many bail bondsmen, pawn brokers, payday advancers, blood banks, used car lots and other "leach" businesses degrades society. Free roads and free travel also implies free parking when you get to free public events like celebrations downtown, and unless it is a parking garage or fenced, everything from parking metered street parking to use of unfenced areas should be made free by mandate of council.
If everybody wasn't so damn greedy all the time we'd have a better society, but the worst thing I've noticed about the South, and sentiment I share with other transplants who undrstand the difference, is that everyone usually seems out for themselves down here, and I have seen this for 19 years down here now. I spent time back on the Jersey Shore last year, and when you hit Wildwood or Seaside heights they simply don't care if you park in lots after like 8, 9 or 10 pm...as long as you're gone by morning when they charge for the day again.
Any councilmen out there want to draft something to resolve this like someone slightly evolved?
QuoteDebt collector has to pay up
By David Bauerlein,
The Times-Union
A state crackdown on Jacksonville-based debt collection businesses won a $1.3 million judgment against Ellis Crosby & Associates, the attorney general's office announced Monday.
The judgment covers both restitution and civil penalties.
The penalties stemmed from an investigation that found the company's debt collection tactics included posing as law enforcement agents, threatening to seize debtor's property, and threatening to physically hurt people, according to the announcement by Attorney General Bill McCollum.
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/040808/bus_266051322.shtml
Wow, I'm surpised the good 'ol boy network wasn't able to sweep this issue under the rug.
In the last week, I've received two tickets; one on a private lot and one from the city. After carefully reading all these comments, I'm still a bit confused on what to do with the notice.
The private "notice" was issued last Friday night when my car was parked in my usual spot at the Ocean and Forsyth lot. I have never paid at this lot, although I have acted like it when attendants were in view. (I only park in this lot at night.) What I find disturbing about this "notice" is that it is for $57. That seems exorbitant.
Today I received a ticket for having an expired meter. I was parked near Burrito Gallery on Adams, at a two-hour meter (or so I thought). I dropped three quarters but only got an hour. The ticket was issued within the time that would have been covered by my third quarter. That fee is $15. My annoyance with the meters is that you don't know until after you've parked and exited your car how long the meter lasts. Recently I discovered 10-hour meters in the 400 block of Monroe Street. I thought every meter was for two hours.
With subsequent tickets or if I don't pay, the city can issue additional fines and immobilize my car. But what further action can the notice issuer take?
I understand that private lots are private property, and whether or not demand is there, it's still private property. (Though I agree there should be more ways of discouraging overnight parking if owners truly want the property free of visitors. Alas, if they secured their lots, they wouldn't make money in their sleep! It all makes sense now.)
The reason I don't like to get parking tickets or citations or notices is because of the reminder that Jacksonville lacks good public transit and I must drive my car some place in order to use the transit that is available. I prefer to take the Skyway, but I must drive to Kings Avenue Station -- a little over a mile -- to get onboard. (And I hate the idea of paying to park my car 1.7 miles from my house.)
The only reason these comments are confusing is because we had a bunch of parking lot shills come on here and add their two cents. Pay the city ticket and throw the private one away. They can't do anything.
QuoteThe private "notice" was issued last Friday night when my car was parked in my usual spot at the Ocean and Forsyth lot. I have never paid at this lot, although I have acted like it when attendants were in view. (I only park in this lot at night.) What I find disturbing about this "notice" is that it is for $57. That seems exorbitant.
I had the exact same thing happen to me on Friday. I was parked in the same lot from about 9-11:30 and got a $57 ticket. The lot was practically empty, but they felt that i was preventing potential customers from being there.
What a great bump!
I was ticketed at the 120 lot a few weeks ago when I stopped in Cafe 331 for a quick drink after work. I used to play in a band that rehearsed over Thee Imperial for years and I honestly thought the lot was free after 6pm. I parked there many many times and never got a ticket.
After reading this thread I called the contact phone# on the ticket and was redirected to Central Parking
(904) 358-6543. I punched in the first extension choice (227) and reached a gentleman in customer service immediately.
I explained that I was angry about receiving a notice that was made to look like the city's official parking ticket and that from what I could gather there was very little legal recourse towards my violation. I told him I would pay $10 which was more than fair or, if we couldn't come to an agreement I would just throw the yellow envelope in the trash.
He agreed, changed my fine in the computer and gave me a Water St address to drop off my $10 check.
Obviously this is in fact a 'money grab' and i probably could've gotten away with tossing the ticket... but I'm more than fine paying the reduced amount and washing my hands of the matter.
Newzgirl / Capt Z- I'm sure you could do the same... and thanks for all the info in this thread!
This may help...
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071024091259AA9eK86
QuoteHow do you fight a "private" parking ticket?
I received a parking ticket from a "private" ticketing company, Park Smart, Regional Parking, Inc. Everything I have found on fighting a ticket is for a city ticket. Any one know how to fight a private company? What happens if you don't pay? They have a dispute system; however, it requires you to give all of your contact information, and so I am not sure it is better to ignore the ticket. the disputing process gives no indications what grounds you may fight your ticket regarding.
A little more about the ticket: says, "Invoice for Parking Charge" and largely at the bottom "This parking charge notice is not issued by the city." It has my license number , state and year of my registration and car make. Violation states "Parked Over Time."
Also, if it is helpful, I live in California, Alameda County.
THANKS!
Best Answer - Chosen by Voters
As it says right on the document you have, this is NOT a "ticket" or a "violation." It is an "invoice" for a "parking charge." In other words, a private company is billing you for money they claim you owe for parking in what I assume is their facility (or some other private location). If this were a citation issued by a private company on behalf of the city (and I have never heard of such a thing) it would say so. In fact, it says the opposite.
If you do not pay it, the most they can do is sue you. The DMV does not care about private contract disputes. It is probably very unlikely that they will sue over such a small amount, and they simply depend upon the intimidating look of the invoice to get people to pay. On the other hand, if you did, in fact, park for a longer period of time than you paid for, you might think about whether you really do owe the company the money, and what obligation you believe you have have in a moral, if not a legal, sense, to pay it.
Source(s):
30+ years as a criminal defense attorney.
Quote from: Jack of Jacksonville on March 10, 2007, 03:32:26 AM
All they need to do is insert the following statement (or something like it): on their phony ticket:
"You are trespassing on private property. We have determined that the value of that theft of our private resource is 5X the normal going rate. Here is your bill for that amount. We have no legal authority to compel you to pay this bill other than going through the normal civil law procedures, such as small claims court. Just because we don't have a fence around our property and for all practical purposes it looks like an abandoned field, it is not. You are wearing off the lines on the pavement. This is an attempt to collect a consumer debt, and you have certain rights under state and federal law with regard to this debt"
There, something lie that. I am sure that once they read that, they will understand and pay right up.
lol
So how do these lots come up with the $57 amount? Why not $100, $1000, or a million?
And to print them with the same parking ticket equipment that the city uses is just plain deceitful.
Quote from: Lunican on August 27, 2010, 10:38:49 AM
So how do these lots come up with the $57 amount? Why not $100, $1000, or a million?
And to print them with the same parking ticket equipment that the city uses is just plain deceitful.
I would think they shoot for the largest amount they think someone might pay.
Reading through this thread was a riot!
Well look at this... Apparently Central Parking has already been in trouble for this, yet no one in Jacksonville thinks it's a problem...
QuoteCOMPANY'S FAKE PARKING TICKETS DRAW FINE FROM THE STATE
Spitzer's Office Halts Fraudulent Acts Of Parking Lot Operator
Attorney General Spitzer today resolved an investigation into a Buffalo parking lot owner and operator that deceived consumers into paying $13,500 in fees using windshield notices that resembled municipal parking citations.
Central Parking System of New York, Inc., which operates under the name Allright Parking, agreed to pay full restitution to thousands of individuals who paid the fake parking tickets and $7,500 in civil penalties.
Since at least March 2000, Allright Parking has been placing windshield notices on cars parked in its lots after hours. According to Spitzer's office, the notices strongly resembled municipal parking tickets. In fact, the "Violation Notice"affixed to vehicles included an envelope labeled "Parking Ticket" in large, bold print, along with directions for the consumer to print the "citation number" on the payment check.
The "Penalty Payment Schedule" of the "Violation Notice" directed consumers to pay five dollars within seven days or fifteen dollars after seven days. This is similar to the payment process used by the City of Buffalo for the resolution of municipal parking tickets. Thereafter, Allright Parking would send unpaid "tickets" to a collection agency.
Since Allright Parking began this practice, the Board of Parking for the City of Buffalo has issued two "cease and desist" orders to Allright Parking indicating that city code requires a parking lot have an attendant on duty to safeguard cars if it expects the public to pay a fee for parking.
Even after receiving these orders, Allright Parking and its debt collection agency, Ticket Track, continued to issue "tickets" and collect parking fees. From March 2000 to February 2002, Allright Parking issued over 2,700 tickets and collected approximately $13,500.
In settling the case, the Nashville-based company will no longer attempt to collect parking fees from consumers parked in unattended lots. In addition, Allright Parking will no longer issue notices with envelopes that could lead consumers to believe it was issued by the City of Buffalo or use words such as "violation notice" or "parking ticket."
In order to be eligible for refunds in this case, individuals must file a completed complaint form with the Attorney General's Office by March 10, 2003. To do so, consumers should call the Attorney General's consumer help line at (800) 771-7755 or go to the office's web site at www.oag.state.ny.
This case was handled by Assistant Attorney General James Morrissey of the Buffalo Regional Office.
http://www.ag.ny.gov/media_center/2003/jan/jan24a_03.html
Quote from: D Neal on March 09, 2007, 02:49:56 PM
I used to respect the articles on this website but the inferences and faulty legal conclusions drawn here have negated that.
Yeah... whatever. Too bad Metro Jacksonville was right.
I got one of these tickets in early September and they are threatening to send it to a collections agency.
Exactly why they got in trouble for this in NY. They are attempting to collect a fictitious debt with punitive damages.
The best course is to ignore them, then they will have a lawyer send you a letter which you can respond to by simply stating that you will report them for violations of the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act as well as to their state bar. Then they magically disappear.
And you use the term lawyer loosely right? Most "law offices" trying to collect debts are nothing more than late stage collection agencies that specialize in scare tactics.
Lunican, You are so right, and I forgot about blasting creditors over the phone.
Way back when I worked for Disney MGM Studios,I once actually received a call at my stage from a creditor.
The day before i learned my rights and informed them under the Fair Debt Collection Practices,to never to call me at work or home.
They hung up. :D
Quote from: Shwaz on August 27, 2010, 10:03:17 AM
What a great bump!
I was ticketed at the 120 lot a few weeks ago when I stopped in Cafe 331 for a quick drink after work. I used to play in a band that rehearsed over Thee Imperial for years and I honestly thought the lot was free after 6pm. I parked there many many times and never got a ticket.
After reading this thread I called the contact phone# on the ticket and was redirected to Central Parking
(904) 358-6543. I punched in the first extension choice (227) and reached a gentleman in customer service immediately.
I explained that I was angry about receiving a notice that was made to look like the city's official parking ticket and that from what I could gather there was very little legal recourse towards my violation. I told him I would pay $10 which was more than fair or, if we couldn't come to an agreement I would just throw the yellow envelope in the trash.
He agreed, changed my fine in the computer and gave me a Water St address to drop off my $10 check.
Obviously this is in fact a 'money grab' and i probably could've gotten away with tossing the ticket... but I'm more than fine paying the reduced amount and washing my hands of the matter.
Newzgirl / Capt Z- I'm sure you could do the same... and thanks for all the info in this thread!
Hey, Shwaz - was there an actual person in the Water Street office? I got one of these the other day even though I had paid for the day & need to extract some justice.
Quote from: Lunican on August 27, 2010, 02:08:19 AM
The only reason these comments are confusing is because we had a bunch of parking lot shills come on here and add their two cents. Pay the city ticket and throw the private one away. They can't do anything.
Thats exactly what I have done. The funny thing is, as other have pointed out, I have parked at a few of these lots quite a few times over the years, after hours, without issue. Suddenly they are enforcing this. Simply amazing.
QuoteThe best course is to ignore them, then they will have a lawyer send you a letter which you can respond to by simply stating that you will report them for violations of the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act as well as to their state bar. Then they magically disappear.
I did this via email and it seemed to have worked really well. If anyone runs into this issue, I have a pretty nasty email template I can send you that will do the trick.
Quote from: RWNeal on November 04, 2010, 06:31:01 PM
Quote from: Shwaz on August 27, 2010, 10:03:17 AM
What a great bump!
I was ticketed at the 120 lot a few weeks ago when I stopped in Cafe 331 for a quick drink after work. I used to play in a band that rehearsed over Thee Imperial for years and I honestly thought the lot was free after 6pm. I parked there many many times and never got a ticket.
After reading this thread I called the contact phone# on the ticket and was redirected to Central Parking
(904) 358-6543. I punched in the first extension choice (227) and reached a gentleman in customer service immediately.
I explained that I was angry about receiving a notice that was made to look like the city's official parking ticket and that from what I could gather there was very little legal recourse towards my violation. I told him I would pay $10 which was more than fair or, if we couldn't come to an agreement I would just throw the yellow envelope in the trash.
He agreed, changed my fine in the computer and gave me a Water St address to drop off my $10 check.
Obviously this is in fact a 'money grab' and i probably could've gotten away with tossing the ticket... but I'm more than fine paying the reduced amount and washing my hands of the matter.
Newzgirl / Capt Z- I'm sure you could do the same... and thanks for all the info in this thread!
Hey, Shwaz - was there an actual person in the Water Street office? I got one of these the other day even though I had paid for the day & need to extract some justice.
Honestly I never went to Water Street office and I didn't pay the 'fine' :D After they reduced the ticket to $10 I figured no collection agency or law office would try to collect it.
Someone should report this to the Florida Attorney General's Office...
all of this is nutzo hilarious!
If you want to "extract some justice" simply visit the Yates building on Forsyth and walk right on up to the public parking office to "contest the ticket" and watch very closely the face of the individual behind the desk.
...as your phony ticket gets shredded for you.. .
this all coincides nicely with the JEDC parking lot improvement plans.
THank you metjax for the comic relief nearly everyday.
I truly lok forward to this and some hottea every afternoon.
Cheers
I noticed at Art Walk tonight that Central Parking is still issuing these "tickets".
(https://p.twimg.com/AxZuCyaCMAEXRTf.jpg)
(https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/168868_10151028357348979_779006464_n.jpg)
Chicago is going after these fake tickets.
QuoteNow the city’s Department of Business Affairs and Consumer Protection is investigating and are conducting investigations of all 52 lots managed by ABM Industries. In addition, the city has issued a subpoena for more records from ABM, which could lead to a deceptive practices charge against the company and possible compensation to the ticketed drivers.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/transportation/15984116-418/drivers-hit-with-private-parking-lot-tickets-may-be-due-refund.html
http://theexpiredmeter.com/2012/10/city-investigating-parking-tickets-at-private-parking-lots/
By the way, this is still one of my favorite posts:
Quote from: D Neal on March 09, 2007, 02:49:56 PM
I used to respect the articles on this website but the inferences and faulty legal conclusions drawn here have negated that. The reason the tickets look similar is because Central Parking System has a contract with the same ticket issuance company as the city and therefore is supplied the same hardware, software and paper tickets. Central Parking System or any other private parking operator has the right to control their private property, pure and simple. A parking facility is a product which costs overhead to operate, similar to a flower shop that sells flowers. Nobody would suggest you just waltz in and take any flower arrangement you want without paying--that is stealing. The same applies to parking and the most effective way CPS has to control theft of parking services is to issue parking notices.
Quote from: D Neal on March 09, 2007, 02:49:56 PM
I used to respect the articles on this website but the inferences and faulty legal conclusions drawn here have negated that. The reason the tickets look similar is because Central Parking System has a contract with the same ticket issuance company as the city and therefore is supplied the same hardware, software and paper tickets. Central Parking System or any other private parking operator has the right to control their private property, pure and simple. A parking facility is a product which costs overhead to operate, similar to a flower shop that sells flowers. Nobody would suggest you just waltz in and take any flower arrangement you want without paying--that is stealing. The same applies to parking and the most effective way CPS has to control theft of parking services is to issue parking notices.
This comparison to a flower shop would be valid if the proposed flower shop had the following attributes:
1. Completely outdoors, with no walls or other discernible security measures.
2. No clerk ever present on the premises.
3. Stock of fresh cut flowers present in beautiful arrangements on the ground 24/7.
As you can see, the comparison is idiotic.
Those unattended CPS surface parking lots are nothing more than attractive nuisances. The fake parking "notices"are nothing more than an attempt collect monies that may or may not be due by implying that these phony look-alikes carry the weight of law, which they clearly do not.
D. Neal's post is thus absurd.
A reader sent us a copy of their fake ticket. It looks like LAZ has taken over for Central Parking? Also, notice how on their address they include City of Jacksonville, FL in an attempt to make it seem as though it is an official government issued ticket.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-SWxjwNS/0/XL/ticket1-XL.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-V6xcDh8/0/XL/ticket2-XL.jpg)
Vice has an article up on this issue
https://www.vice.com/read/private-parking-companies-are-issuing-illegal-parking-tickets-623
COJ should really put an end to this practice by private lot owners.
"While the laws vary slightly from city to city, one truism in the private parking lot industry is that they do not have the authority to fine you any more than I do. Unless they are contracted by the city, or the city itself issues the ticket, a private entity cannot act as a low-stakes Judge Dredd "I am the law" meter maid. So feel free to ignore them."