If a road has a bicycle lane, do bicycle riders legally have to ride their bikes in that lane when riding on that road? Or is using the bicycle lane optional?
I don't think it is a legal obligation. A cyclist may leave the lane if conditions are deemed safer in the roadway or if making a turn.. That being said, a cyclist on the road has to follow all of the same traffic laws as a vehicle and must be treated as such by other vehicles.
http://floridabicycle.org/bicycle-traffic-law/ (http://floridabicycle.org/bicycle-traffic-law/)
Also
Just a friendly reminder for motorists reading this thread: 3 feet is the minimum amount of space required by law to be given to cyclist when passing and you are supposed to stop at the white line next to the stop sign and not cross over the sidewalk and stop right before you hit traffic.
>:(
/rant
I don't think those laws apply when someone is texting a meaningless and pointless message while driving...
I dont get bent outta shape either... of course I refuse to ride on streets without a physical barrier between me and the people who could kill me by their lack of attention. I take my bike out on the trails where it is just me and any tree I might run into... :)
I think riding a bicycle on the road is dangerous, even when using a bicycle lane. I would never ride a bike on the road.
Depends on the road and the traffic IMO. Sometimes there is no choice. Riding on the sidewalk can be dangerous too. People aren't paying attention when they are pulling in and out of parking lot entrances.
Every single time I go on a ride and stay on the sidewalk I have to deal with motorists that just pull blindly out over the sidewalk or into the crosswalk. That bold white line next to the stop sign is the place to stop. Not the crosswalk lines.
(http://newyorkparkingticket.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Stop-Line-and-crosswalk.jpg)
A cyclist on the sidewalk is considered a pedestrian and always has right of way even if that means costing a motorist 10 seconds of their time.
I swear driving has some sort of hypnotic effect on people where they forget that they are piloting a 2000 pound machine.
When you pull through the stop line and stop on top of the sidewalk it should be a ticketable offense.. oh wait it's called running a stop sign..
Someone would have to enforce this...lol
Quote from: jlmann on March 10, 2017, 02:47:24 PM
I never get too bent outta shape at cars when riding around riverside/Avondale. that said I'm super cautious not really expecting motorists to see me. because iphones and trump took duval lol. motorists could definitely pay better attention
BUT. cyclists could help the cause by consistently obeying traffic laws. then I think you have a fair argument to expect the same respect from motorists as is given autos. however, 99% of people on bikes just ignore traffic rules when convenient for them and then get pissy when they want to be treated like a car
gotta remember that second part, "same rules", too
Right. Because I notice the nearly identical percentage of cars that follow the traffic laws by driving at or below the posted speed, always coming to a full and complete stop behind the limit line at a stop sign, never running through lights after they've changed, etc. It never ceases to amaze me how people can deride cyclists for ignoring traffic laws but will completely accept it from people who are driving vehicles which can kill them!
Quote from: jlmann on March 13, 2017, 10:11:23 AM
QuoteBecause I notice the nearly identical percentage of cars that follow the traffic laws by driving at or below the posted speed,
riiight, because I see a lot of cars who hop the curb up on the sidewalk or peel through a parking lot when traffic slows and then cut back in when it's moving again. or all those motorists who give nothing but a quick glance before blowing through a long turned red light or stop sign without even slowing down- which is absolutely incomparable to a rolling stop or going through a yellow that just turned
great comparison. and stopping over the sidewalk line? that probably annoys you when you're illegally riding on the sidewalk, to my point. act like a vehicle, get respect.
if you make the decision to ride in traffic, which I do often, take some responsibility. its a risky choice and you cant put your safety in the hands of other people.
Cyclists are remarkably self-centered. "The hundreds or thousands of motorists I'll encounter on my ride should all be looking out for ME FIRST!"
So, because you knew I was correct, you ignored my assertions about the percentage of cars that DON'T FOLLOW THE LAW, and tried to turn it back onto the cyclists as the problem. I ride my bicycle, and I also have about 700,000 miles of driving experience, so I'd say I'm qualified to do both. There are just as many idiot drivers as there are idiot cyclists; however, an idiot on a bicycle isn't likely to kill anyone through his selfishness. That can't be said about those who drive 2-ton vehicles and DON'T FOLLOW THE LAW.
Clearly there is some built up anger towards cyclist with this one :o
Quote from: jlmann on March 13, 2017, 11:22:57 AM
No, you're not correct. First off you almost NEVER see a cyclist consistently obeying the law. At least not in riverside/Avondale/DT. Most cars may break a small law on a technicality during the course of their journey, but what you and other cyclists fail to grasp is that often cyclists travels are one big unlawful act
How many cars do you guess today in the areas I mentioned will complete their entire journey on a sidewalk dodging pedestrians? riiiight. You could camp out in 5pts and you might see MAYBE a handful of bikes navigate it lawfully while hundreds and hundreds of cars will do so.
Cyclist seem to think motorists cause all the problems. You know what else may contribute to a lack of safety? Riding on roadways and within a framework that, whether you agree or disagree, is not designed for bikes. Or that bikes are barely visible when compared to a car, especially if its dark or raining. Or that when bikes do actually have lights theyre barely visible among headlights, streetlights etc. Or that you cant tell if a cyclist is signaling a turn, or adjusting their headphones.
It's not selfish to drive a car and go 40 in a 35. It's selfish to expect everyone to be on high alert at all times because we may encounter some precious snowflake who makes the inherently risky decision to ride a bike to work.
If my friend died commuting down a major roadway or while on a motorcycle or the like, I would be devastated. But my second thought would be what the hell was he thinking.
You're like a guy who goes snowboarding without a helmet and then blames his concussion on the guy who cut in front of him
Regardless of who's better about following the laws, there are a lot more drivers and there's a much greater danger level associated with cars. Even slight moving violations can be fatal to others, which isn't the case with either bikers or pedestrians. I can't tell you how many times I've been walking and gotten cut off by or nearly hit by cars violating clearly marked yield for pedestrians crossings.
Quote from: jlmann on March 13, 2017, 11:22:57 AM
No, you're not correct.
While I agree a great deal of cyclists do not ride responsibly. (especially ones delivering for Jimmy Johns for some reason) I happen to be a cyclist that does his very best to ride as safely and within the rules as I possibly can and I think the brunt of the responsibility must rest upon the person driving the 2000 pound machine with a built in steel cage.
The cyclists are the vulnerable ones in this situation, even the irresponsible ones. To have a superiority complex on behalf of motorists is what I find to be most frustrating. People in cars run afoul of cyclists all the time because they simply are not thinking about them. Cyclists don't have a steel frame, steel body panels, airbags, seatbelts, crumple zones, etc. It is on the motorist to be aware of cyclists in places where cyclists frequent Downtown/San Marco/Riverside/the Beaches.
You may have a laundry list of things that irresponsible cyclists do that grind your gears, but try seeing it from their perspective. In practicing their chosen hobby they put their selves at risk of grave bodily harm. Partly from the nature of the sport but mostly from the danger of reckless, careless, and unthinking motorists.
QuoteMost cars may break a small law on a technicality during the course of their journey, but what you and other cyclists fail to grasp is that often cyclists travels are one big unlawful act
So motorists can break many "small" laws all day, but an irresponsible cyclist's entire ride is one big breach of law. Great real, man. A broken law is a broken law. Don't try to justify it.
QuoteIt's not selfish to drive a car and go 40 in a 35. It's selfish to expect everyone to be on high alert at all times because we may encounter some precious snowflake who makes the inherently risky decision to ride a bike to work.
It is selfish to break the laws regarding speed limits. You're putting yourself and the community at risk when you do that. I wonder if you were to kill a child or a commuting adult riding their bike along a residential road because you were breaking the law in your car if you'd tell the kid's parents that they shouldn't have raised a snowflake. You've shown how highly you regard the life of a human being. Selfish indeed.
Quote from: lastdaysoffla on March 14, 2017, 06:27:21 PM
Quote from: jlmann on March 13, 2017, 11:22:57 AM
No, you're not correct.
While I agree a great deal of cyclists do not ride responsibly. (especially ones delivering for Jimmy Johns for some reason) I happen to be a cyclist that does his very best to ride as safely and within the rules as I possibly can and I think the brunt of the responsibility must rest upon the person driving the 2000 pound machine with a built in steel cage.
The cyclists are the vulnerable ones in this situation, even the irresponsible ones. To have a superiority complex on behalf of motorists is what I find to be most frustrating. People in cars run afoul of cyclists all the time because they simply are not thinking about them. Cyclists don't have a steel frame, steel body panels, airbags, seatbelts, crumple zones, etc. It is on the motorist to be aware of cyclists in places where cyclists frequent Downtown/San Marco/Riverside/the Beaches.
You may have a laundry list of things that irresponsible cyclists do that grind your gears, but try seeing it from their perspective. In practicing their chosen hobby they put their selves at risk of grave bodily harm. Partly from the nature of the sport but mostly from the danger of reckless, careless, and unthinking motorists.
QuoteMost cars may break a small law on a technicality during the course of their journey, but what you and other cyclists fail to grasp is that often cyclists travels are one big unlawful act
So motorists can break many "small" laws all day, but an irresponsible cyclist's entire ride is one big breach of law. Great real, man. A broken law is a broken law. Don't try to justify it.
QuoteIt's not selfish to drive a car and go 40 in a 35. It's selfish to expect everyone to be on high alert at all times because we may encounter some precious snowflake who makes the inherently risky decision to ride a bike to work.
It is selfish to break the laws regarding speed limits. You're putting yourself and the community at risk when you do that. I wonder if you were to kill a child or a commuting adult riding their bike along a residential road because you were breaking the law in your car if you'd tell the kid's parents that they shouldn't have raised a snowflake. You've shown how highly you regard the life of a human being. Selfish indeed.
Well said. +1000
https://issuu.com/northfloridatpo/docs/tech_memo__8_-_needs_plan?e=19110718/30156224
The 2040 needs plan includes projects consisting of adding a bike lane on Old St. Augustine Rd. from Losco Rd to San Jose Blvd, a bike lane on San Jose Blvd from Julington Creek Rd to Plummers Cove Rd and a bike lane on San Jose Blvd from Old St. Augustine Rd to Baymeadows Rd. Would adding bike lanes in those areas really be an improvement?
Yes. That would be a wonderful improvement.
Painted "bike lanes" on the side of the road are a cruel and deadly joke...
That depends. I find they work quite well when they are only allowed to be used by cyclists. The danger is more around busy intersections.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/2/1532/26336285312_7f988753d7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/G8fm5G)IMG_4159 (https://flic.kr/p/G8fm5G) by AviationMetalSmith (https://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/), on Flickr
You should have a Slow Moving Vehicle sign on your bike. I got mine rigged with LED strips and four other red LED tail lights. LED's are much better than incandescent truck and trailer lights, because the battery used to go dead in about 3 hours with the older lights. Now I get a run time of 19 hours.
I always have the lights on , even in daytime. Many states require Motorcycles to have their lights on in daytime, I don't know how a bicycle is supposed to be more visible than a motorcycle:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/2/1572/25774513174_51530c34ca_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FgB7Nb)IMG_4058 (https://flic.kr/p/FgB7Nb) by AviationMetalSmith (https://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/), on Flickr
On 2nd avenue, in New York City, after they dug the new Subway, they put a bike lane in the new street:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/373/32257324612_2d9dd97ecc_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/R9tdMb)IMG_7730 (https://flic.kr/p/R9tdMb) by AviationMetalSmith (https://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/), on Flickr
In New York, the Citi Bike has 12,000 bikes, and has logged more than 30 million trips, with NOBODY getting killed.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5484/9069377641_4bb4b66afc_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ePqW12)DSCF0623 (https://flic.kr/p/ePqW12) by AviationMetalSmith (https://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/), on Flickr
Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 17, 2017, 09:29:40 AM
Painted "bike lanes" on the side of the road are a cruel and deadly joke...
Indeed, in Jacksonville at least.
A protected bike lane like this one in Denver is much better.
(http://images1.westword.com/imager/pop-up-protected-bike-lane-shows-how-con/u/original/6516505/protected.bike.lane.petition.jpg)
Yep. I would ride there.
Found this article about long forgotten bike highways in Britain...
http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/britain-forgotten-1930s-bike-network
QuoteResurrecting the Forgotten Bike Highways of 1930s Britain
The United Kingdom built hundreds of miles of protected bike lanes—and promptly forgot about them.
BY SARAH LASKOW MAY 11, 2017
(http://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/42006/image.jpg)
In the 1930s, Britain's Ministry of Transport built an extensive network of bike highways around the country—at least 280 miles of paved, protected infrastructure dedicated to cyclists alone. For decades, it was entirely forgotten—overgrown and overlooked—so much so that no one seems to remember that these lanes had existed at all.
"There's all this infrastructure, it's been there for 80 years, and nobody knows what it was," says Carlton Reid, author of the forthcoming book Bike Boom. Reid, who's been a cycling journalist and historian for 30 years, rediscovered the network while researching his book. Now he's teaming up with an urban planner to reveal the full extent of Britain's historic cycleways.
Before starting research on the book, Reid knew of the existence of a handful of '30s-era bike lanes. But when he started studying the decade's road-building policies, he found archival maps showing that as new arterial roads were built, they all had cycleways installed beside them. "Every one I looked at showed that there were cycleways built," he said. "It was clear that there were far more than anyone had understood."
(http://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/42007/image.jpg)
These bike highways were nine feet wide and surfaced in concrete, and they ran along major roads for miles. According to Reid's research, the Ministry of Transport was inspired by newspaper reports of similar lanes in the Netherlands and contacted the Rijkswaterstaat, its Dutch counterpart. The head engineer of the Rijkswaterstaat sent the Brits "these incredible exploded diagrams of how they built cycleways next to the road and the railways and how they separated the traffic," says Reid. "The Brits, in effect, were 'going Dutch,'" decades before that phrase became a mantra among cycling enthusiasts who long for infrastructure as good as Amsterdam's.
In the 1930s, cycling in Britain was at its peak, and cyclists far outnumbered motorists. As in America, it was British cyclists who first pushed the government to build smoothly paved roads between cities. Those roads, though, were catnip to motorists, too, and "motorists, if they wanted to use their cars and go fast ... clearly had to get cyclists off the road." These bike highways were intended in part to separate cyclists from the main rush of traffic and clear the way for drivers.
(http://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/42004/image.jpg)
As more people bought cars, politicians grew increasingly concerned about cyclist and pedestrian safety. "The government was saying, 'Yes, we want to get cyclists off the road so we can drive'—because the politicians were motorists—but also we have to save our citizens," says Reid. "There was a definite idea of keeping people safe. It was both." But plenty of cyclists at the time didn't want to be siphoned off onto these bike-specific lanes. "There were all sorts of major campaigns against this infrastructure from hardcore club cyclists," Reid says. But those who just wanted to commute to work or ride out of the city on weekends on two wheels were happy to use them.
In the years that followed the construction of the cycleways, though, cars became the predominant form of transportation, and the bike lanes fell out of use. Even the Ministry of Transport forgot that it had built them. "Within 40 years, it had been lost in their own department that they were doing this," says Reid. He read the ministry's minutes going through the 1960s and found records of ministers saying that they'd never built anything like a bike highway before.
"You did do it! I'm just willing them—look, look in your own minutes!" says Reid. "You'll see that you did do it."
(http://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/42005/image.jpg)
After Reid discovered the extent of the network, he went looking for the paths themselves. It happened that there were two examples within cycling distance of his home in Newcastle. When he first saw them, he couldn't believe his eyes. They were unused but pristine. "You look at archive photos from the 1930s, and they just haven't changed," he says. "It's the original surface, even."
The knowledge that these paths were meant for bicycles, though, had been thoroughly lost. When he was exploring, Reid says, he saw cyclists come riding by on the skinny sidewalk, when the 1930s cycleway was right there. "They didn't think it was theirs," he says.
(http://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/42002/image.jpg)
Not all of the original 1930s network remains. Some lanes have been resurfaced, and most of what was built in London has fallen to development. Reid estimates that about 10 to 15 percent of the original cycleways have been buried. And there are places where the original work is at least partially concealed. Reid heard about a major route from London to the coast, for instance, that was very popular for weekend getaways in the 1930s. On Google Street View, he saw slivers of concrete, a couple of feet wide, that run by the road for a while, then disappear, only to reappear farther up the road. "I know what that is," he says. "I know what's under there. You've got this five-to-ten -mile stretch that people had forgotten was there."
Reid and his collaborator, urban planner John Dales, are raising money on Kickstarter to continue their research, with the goal of restoring some of the network to use. (With two weeks to go, they've doubled their original fundraising goal.) They've already heard from cities on the network with money to spend. "Some of these cities look as though they'd be excited to work with us," Reid says. "We're going to work with the willing first." Soon, it's possible that these decades-old cycling highways could once again be part of Britain's transportation network.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on May 12, 2017, 07:24:01 AM
Found this article about long forgotten bike highways in Britain...
http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/britain-forgotten-1930s-bike-network
QuoteResurrecting the Forgotten Bike Highways of 1930s Britain
The United Kingdom built hundreds of miles of protected bike lanes—and promptly forgot about them.
BY SARAH LASKOW MAY 11, 2017
(http://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/42006/image.jpg)
In the 1930s, Britain's Ministry of Transport built an extensive network of bike highways around the country—at least 280 miles of paved, protected infrastructure dedicated to cyclists alone. For decades, it was entirely forgotten—overgrown and overlooked—so much so that no one seems to remember that these lanes had existed at all.
"There's all this infrastructure, it's been there for 80 years, and nobody knows what it was," says Carlton Reid, author of the forthcoming book Bike Boom. Reid, who's been a cycling journalist and historian for 30 years, rediscovered the network while researching his book. Now he's teaming up with an urban planner to reveal the full extent of Britain's historic cycleways.
Before starting research on the book, Reid knew of the existence of a handful of '30s-era bike lanes. But when he started studying the decade's road-building policies, he found archival maps showing that as new arterial roads were built, they all had cycleways installed beside them. "Every one I looked at showed that there were cycleways built," he said. "It was clear that there were far more than anyone had understood."
(http://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/42007/image.jpg)
These bike highways were nine feet wide and surfaced in concrete, and they ran along major roads for miles. According to Reid's research, the Ministry of Transport was inspired by newspaper reports of similar lanes in the Netherlands and contacted the Rijkswaterstaat, its Dutch counterpart. The head engineer of the Rijkswaterstaat sent the Brits "these incredible exploded diagrams of how they built cycleways next to the road and the railways and how they separated the traffic," says Reid. "The Brits, in effect, were 'going Dutch,'" decades before that phrase became a mantra among cycling enthusiasts who long for infrastructure as good as Amsterdam's.
In the 1930s, cycling in Britain was at its peak, and cyclists far outnumbered motorists. As in America, it was British cyclists who first pushed the government to build smoothly paved roads between cities. Those roads, though, were catnip to motorists, too, and "motorists, if they wanted to use their cars and go fast ... clearly had to get cyclists off the road." These bike highways were intended in part to separate cyclists from the main rush of traffic and clear the way for drivers.
(http://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/42004/image.jpg)
As more people bought cars, politicians grew increasingly concerned about cyclist and pedestrian safety. "The government was saying, 'Yes, we want to get cyclists off the road so we can drive'—because the politicians were motorists—but also we have to save our citizens," says Reid. "There was a definite idea of keeping people safe. It was both." But plenty of cyclists at the time didn't want to be siphoned off onto these bike-specific lanes. "There were all sorts of major campaigns against this infrastructure from hardcore club cyclists," Reid says. But those who just wanted to commute to work or ride out of the city on weekends on two wheels were happy to use them.
In the years that followed the construction of the cycleways, though, cars became the predominant form of transportation, and the bike lanes fell out of use. Even the Ministry of Transport forgot that it had built them. "Within 40 years, it had been lost in their own department that they were doing this," says Reid. He read the ministry's minutes going through the 1960s and found records of ministers saying that they'd never built anything like a bike highway before.
"You did do it! I'm just willing them—look, look in your own minutes!" says Reid. "You'll see that you did do it."
(http://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/42005/image.jpg)
After Reid discovered the extent of the network, he went looking for the paths themselves. It happened that there were two examples within cycling distance of his home in Newcastle. When he first saw them, he couldn't believe his eyes. They were unused but pristine. "You look at archive photos from the 1930s, and they just haven't changed," he says. "It's the original surface, even."
The knowledge that these paths were meant for bicycles, though, had been thoroughly lost. When he was exploring, Reid says, he saw cyclists come riding by on the skinny sidewalk, when the 1930s cycleway was right there. "They didn't think it was theirs," he says.
(http://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/42002/image.jpg)
Not all of the original 1930s network remains. Some lanes have been resurfaced, and most of what was built in London has fallen to development. Reid estimates that about 10 to 15 percent of the original cycleways have been buried. And there are places where the original work is at least partially concealed. Reid heard about a major route from London to the coast, for instance, that was very popular for weekend getaways in the 1930s. On Google Street View, he saw slivers of concrete, a couple of feet wide, that run by the road for a while, then disappear, only to reappear farther up the road. "I know what that is," he says. "I know what's under there. You've got this five-to-ten -mile stretch that people had forgotten was there."
Reid and his collaborator, urban planner John Dales, are raising money on Kickstarter to continue their research, with the goal of restoring some of the network to use. (With two weeks to go, they've doubled their original fundraising goal.) They've already heard from cities on the network with money to spend. "Some of these cities look as though they'd be excited to work with us," Reid says. "We're going to work with the willing first." Soon, it's possible that these decades-old cycling highways could once again be part of Britain's transportation network.
Don't mean to go all "Simms" on you and whatnot - but I thought it was funny the article showed the Southend Arterial Road. That road (or what it feeds into) is part of the preferred route (according to Google) for me to take to work. I don't do it because it's a) not very pleasant and b) terrifying.
I'm sure it is... now. The planning map was from the 1930 era... I posted the article because like many things urban planners created space for bicycles and streetcars only to have them forgotten or usurped by the auto... The past is prologue as we are now re designing our transport systems with these concepts in mind again...
Quote from: BridgeTroll on May 12, 2017, 07:55:44 AM
I'm sure it is... now. The planning map was from the 1930 era... I posted the article because like many things urban planners created space for bicycles and streetcars only to have them forgotten or usurped by the auto... The past is prologue as we are now re designing our transport systems with these concepts in mind again...
Oh yes, absolutely. I'd imagine it was way better when there was more land and way fewer cars!