Downtown Construction Update - September 2008
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-6503-p1150066.JPG)
A look at the status of various projects under construction in and around downtown during the month of September.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/891
yawn!!!!!!! ;D still not much going on to draw people Downtown.The sleepy Mill-less Town lives on.SHIPYARDS Entertainment district and new convention center on the river would be a start.Wake up city leaders give us something to come downtown for.Till then we will just stay in the land of strip malls and soccer moms.....mmmm soccer moms :o
Where is the Springfield building located.
Not much at this site yet but here is the link...
http://www.myspace.com/thelibraryjax
We could have republished the update from August...or July...or June.
Not bad Not bad... a lot of projects seem to be coming along... Whats the point of kings Ave Station? was it supposed to be a TOD because the skyway links it?
How tall is it going to be?
Has construction resumed on Berkman 2 yet?
Quote from: billy on September 11, 2008, 07:13:42 AM
Where is the Springfield building located.
The NE corner of 3rd & Main.
Quote from: copperfiend on September 11, 2008, 07:40:53 AM
We could have republished the update from August...or July...or June.
Its evident that things are starting to slow down. We may have to start spreading out this series to every three months.
Quote from: TD* on September 11, 2008, 07:49:14 AM
Not bad Not bad... a lot of projects seem to be coming along... Whats the point of kings Ave Station? was it supposed to be a TOD because the skyway links it?
How tall is it going to be?
The Kings Avenue Station is a TAD ( Transit Adjacent Development). Although its located on land owned by JTA, its a block or two south of the skyway station. The first phase will include two Hilton hotel chains. The hotels are supposed to be eight stories so I believe the building is now topped out. The second phase (not anticipated to break ground anytime soon) will be residential with street retail.
Miles?
What projects have you stopped reporting on?
During the past summer the only thing really newsworthy has been the completion of the Peninsula. Other than that, I would say the only projects of note are Kings Avenue Station and Alfred I. DuPont Trust. When 8 stories is the Big story, I think it's time for some new stuff.
Quote from: sdp777 on September 11, 2008, 08:39:01 AM
Whats the current status of the Laura Trio? I have always been fascinated with that bank building. Last I heard, while working at KBJ we did some feasibility studies for Police/Fire.
Aren't those buildings in foreclosure currently?
I don't think the progress has stalled completely downtown, it's just the market catching up. I know Jacksonville has some wealth, but the amount of multi-million dollar condos that were being proposed was definetely outpacing demand. It's time to look at some more affordable projects I think. As for drawing people downtown, the artwalk continues to pull in more and more new comers every month & Bay St is starting to shape up finally. I've stopped expecting things to blow up downtown and i've focused more on the urban neighborhoods these days. It is what it is....
Quote from: billy on September 11, 2008, 08:31:23 AM
Miles?
Nothing happening here. They demolished the remaining +100 year old buildings on the site a few months ago, but that's about it.
Quote from: copperfiend on September 11, 2008, 09:02:55 AM
What projects have you stopped reporting on?
Everything that's not under construction. I guess I should add 20 West and Berkman II to that list, since no work is taking place with them at this point, as well.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 11, 2008, 09:15:39 AM
During the past summer the only thing really newsworthy has been the completion of the Peninsula. Other than that, I would say the only projects of note are Kings Avenue Station and Alfred I. DuPont Trust. When 8 stories is the Big story, I think it's time for some new stuff.
I'd also include the Lofts on Main, in Springfield, with those two.
Quote from: sdp777 on September 11, 2008, 08:39:01 AM
Whats the current status of the Laura Trio? I have always been fascinated with that bank building. Last I heard, while working at KBJ we did some feasibility studies for Police/Fire.
I believe these buildings, along with the Barnett, are now in the ownership of the bank that foreclosed on Kuhn. So at this point, they sit vacant awaiting another prince in shining armor to save them before they crumble to the ground.
I laughed when I saw the Family Dollar picture. Too bad we have to feature this in a construction update, but it could be worse.
Re: Barnett building... mid-summer a "shining knight" did come to town from a larger southern city to the northwest. Ready to ink the deal with Kuhn's bank, they had done financial due diligence, and just wanted to see the property. On a hot, near-patriotic Sat a.m., their reps flew in, visited the building, and flew out with negated intent.
Rehabbing a building is enough expense, "we're not interested in having to fight the blight and homelessness issue, too." True or no, on that Sat a.m. it was, and it killed the deal.
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Re: Miles... they are shopping the Brooklyn deal all over larger southern city to the northwest, with little-to-no intent or financial ability to make it happen themselves (go try find a lender for a residential project right now!)
If Miles' residential piece won't happen, what about Hallmark's commercial/retail piece? How much more (beyond the already allocated $24M) will the City have to throw at Brooklyn to find an entity that is fiscally able to develop it?
IF it happens at all, I'm being optimistic if I bet on 7-10 year timeframe. Can the city get its allocated $ back, and use for something else downtown?
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JEDC has proven it can get deals done on Southside and by the airport. Can we please ordinance in a new master developer for Jax's downtown mess?
Quote from: thelakelander on September 11, 2008, 08:13:22 AM
Quote from: TD* on September 11, 2008, 07:49:14 AM
Not bad Not bad... a lot of projects seem to be coming along... Whats the point of kings Ave Station? was it supposed to be a TOD because the skyway links it?
How tall is it going to be?
The Kings Avenue Station is a TAD ( Transit Adjacent Development). Although its located on land owned by JTA, its a block or two south of the skyway station. The first phase will include two Hilton hotel chains. The hotels are supposed to be eight stories so I believe the building is now topped out. The second phase (not anticipated to break ground anytime soon) will be residential with street retail.
will the hotels be stacked or side by side?
side by side, hence it being a bulky building.
I have to agree that the Construction Update is quite meek for a city the size of Jacksonville. There are cities all over the US that are holding their own in this slow economy. Of course they have strong leadership and are quickly capitalizing on a push by many to invest in urban cores and public transportation. They have leaders with a vision and lots of enthusiasm. Must be nice!
So onto problem solving. I haven't lived here very long, but has Jacksonville ever explored Tax Increment Financing as a way to get some of our numerous blighted blocks developed. Many cities have found this to work as long as there are some restrictions. Just throwing the idea out there.
There are TIF's already in place, and have been for years.
Does anyboby know what will the city do with Berkman 2?
I would guess the City would do ... nothing. Eventually the owner will resume construction.
"crave" in five points is about to open - selling mens an woman's clothing
fit out has started on an English tea house opening up in five points - going in the old lifestyles store on park.
lattitudes cafe should be opening shortly on park
the clothing warehouse just completed their remodel
a new furniture store is opening up in avondale.
a boutique glasses store is being fit out in avondale
construction has started on a new store opening up in the old armor space in avondale.
I would think that these items would get more attention than a dollar store on main.
Thanks for the update nestliving. Sometimes its easier to spot out new construction as opposed to tenant upfits, which is why that family dollar stood out. However, you're right. These places should get some attention as well.
Is 20 West put on hold too? It looks like they haven't made any progress since I used to live over at the Carling back in January.
vic, can you please elaborate on your TIF knowledge. I can't find any information on the city website about any TIF areas that have been created in the past. What developments in the core are a result of TIF? Where are the established districts in the urban core?
Quote from: comncense on September 12, 2008, 02:35:35 PM
Is 20 West put on hold too? It looks like they haven't made any progress since I used to live over at the Carling back in January.
They stalled out again a few months ago.
I'm totally ignorant on this matter but here's a story I found on jacksonville.com:
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/102207/met_210061625.shtml
Quote from: brainstormer on September 12, 2008, 08:42:55 PM
vic, can you please elaborate on your TIF knowledge. I can't find any information on the city website about any TIF areas that have been created in the past. What developments in the core are a result of TIF? Where are the established districts in the urban core?
Quote from: Charles Hunter on September 12, 2008, 06:12:10 AM
I would guess the City would do ... nothing. Eventually the owner will resume construction.
Nothing?!? :o ??? ::) WHAT!!! I have to disagree on that. They'll get that building built one way or another. 8)
Thanks Maximus. The article helped bring some insight to a newcomer. If you read the article however, Mr. Barton at the JEDC says the city has taken more of a "pay as you go" approach. I guess this explains why nothing is happening. If you have no extra money, it is hard to invest. He also states, "In our case, we've recognized the needs of our downtown are much greater than what a TIF can do." And when we look at all of the blighted blocks of downtown, it looks like they gave up. What I know from other cities I've lived in, is that city cooperation with private investors and creation of TIF districts really helped to jump start some large redevelopment projects, which in turn sparked even more. I noticed the article is from 2007. Apparently we haven't come up with many good alternatives in the past year. :o
Jeh, listen to the man, the city won't have to do anything, because the developer is going to finish the project. This is something I have been preaching since the accident. Understandably, there is some doubt, but have a little faith. The developer will finish the project, hence the city doesn't have to do anything.
As I understand it (granted this is third hand information), the developers of the Berkman have a tax abatement deal with the city that requires Berkman 2 to be complete in 2010. Should this deadline expire (which I regard as a near certainty), the city could attach a lien on the project for the entire amount of forgiven or abated tax. Moreover, since there has been no progress on BP 2 for nine months, since the crane is still standing motionless with its Christmas lights illuminated (does anyone on this forum know the daily expense of a crane that size?), and since the building has sat derelict all this time, exposed to the elements, it is no stretch to say the entire undertaking is in quite desperate straits. At this stage, i would lay the odds of completion at no better than one in two.
That may very well be true, because I know the developer's were given a tax break upon the commencement of their plans. However, enlight of the stuggling real estate market and the lack of options Downtown, it leads me to raise one issue on your question. Would the City really shut down or take over a project for Downtown residents that is already 18 stories out of the ground because of a 2010 completion stipulation and the accident that happened. I really wish people would please keep in mind the fact that these developers were the FIRST to come and build a major tower downtown upon the approval of the BJP. Since then they have completed one tower, built 20 prestine town homes and started construction on a 2nd tower, which had a major accident, but will continue and flourish. There is still a STRONG amount of contracts on BP2 and the project is going foraward and will be completed by the developer. As I have said in the past, this project will finish. This 2010 tax incentive break deadline could very well be true, but again I pose this question. If the developer (someone I know and respect in the highest regard) thought construction could not be completed or a tax break deadline would jepordize its completion. Why would he have paid for the demolition of the remaining garage and spent the last 9 months doing nothing but getting this project back on track?
Well Bass, you are certainly right that the city would have the option of extending the deadline (should one exist) and that would probably make the most sense should that situation arise. However, it has been several months since OSHA cleared BP2 to resume construction, yet no progress has been made. What is the impediment?
If I had to make a "guess", I would say all the insurance companies involved have handcuffed them and a possible GC change, which would make a lot of since for the delay. Also OSHA had and took the entire 6 months they were allowed to complete their investigation. So if the above factors are in play, 3+ months to address those issues seems reasonable.
This is off topic but I must commend you two (JaxTrader & Basstacular). That was possibly the most pleasant "argument" I have seen on this site in quite sometime. To all that are reading, THAT is how a civil discussion takes place.
Back to topic, I would have to agree that the Berkman developers are doing all that they can to get the building completed and honor the unit contracts they still have. If the developer fails to finish they stand to lose much more than they would by paying fines for a late completion. Also, the city had nothing to do with the garage collapse and should not have to extend the developers completion deadline. But because of the developer's relationship with the city I woudn't be suprised to see an extension (if there is a dealine). We all know the core needs more residents downtown and the Berkman developers are taking a large risk in a now sketchy market.
QuoteThis is off topic but I must commend you two (JaxTrader & Basstacular). That was possibly the most pleasant "argument" I have seen on this site in quite sometime. To all that are reading, THAT is how a civil discussion takes place.
Concur :)
Downtown Jax needs to build UP instead of building across. ya kno. they need more bigger buildings. We have the potential to be a Miami, Philly, Tampa. all these different cities and we are like the least visited city by tourists.
Great point Italian. That's why our mayor designed a new 4 story courthouse that takes up half of Lavilla. Such a visionary, that Peyton!
QuoteGreat point Italian. That's why our mayor designed a new 4 story courthouse that takes up half of Lavilla. Such a visionary, that Peyton!
Hey I've got it, why not take the Peyton Courthouse and stand it on end? 4 city blocks high! Wow, someone please do the math, my brain hurts. (http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Special%20Effects%20Images/lightningandTRACTION-1-1.jpg)
HEE HEE HEE!