A Different Look for Prado Walk
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-6419-p1140486.JPG)
Yet another urban development project has been reconfigured to allow it to move forward despite a struggling economic environment.
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http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/887
Can residential units be added in the future?
I Like the original concept better. I am a big fan of mixing and combing retail and housing!!
I'm happy they're doing something there. It's a sad cry from the original, but understandable.
Yeah, it is understandable. I'd almost rather see the site sit vacant until the market wakes back up to allow the residential component to be built. More retail will be good for the area but a mixed use development will be there for the long run.
Quote from: Jason on September 08, 2008, 09:01:24 AM
Yeah, it is understandable. I'd almost rather see the site sit vacant until the market wakes back up to allow the residential component to be built. More retail will be good for the area but a mixed use development will be there for the long run.
There is no reason why they couldn't stage the project in phases, though. Just make sure that they plan for the addition of residential above structurally, and allow for the vertical circulation.
Seems like it would make more sense to have residential apts over retail, although a combination of both would be best.
After all the revamped and postponed projects I would rather see nothing done at this time....
THEY WILL NEVER add on to this project...What you see is what it will always be
I'm surprised they didnt change back to apartments
I think apartments would have done pretty well at this location.
I think it looks like a pretty lame project to me...
QuoteI think it looks like a pretty lame project to me...
Even more lame than the vacant, fenced-in lot that it is now?
Yay! Another stuccoed strip mall smack in the middle of a historic neighborhood! Ooh! Ooh! Let me guess. The slated tenants are a nail salon, a tanning salon, a realty office and a crappy chain restaurant. Or maybe another Sushi joint? Lord knows Riverside needs it.
Quote from: stug on September 08, 2008, 11:43:37 AM
Yay! Another stuccoed strip mall smack in the middle of a historic neighborhood! Ooh! Ooh! Let me guess. The slated tenants are a nail salon, a tanning salon, a realty office and a crappy chain restaurant. Or maybe another Sushi joint? Lord knows Riverside needs it.
Maybe a chinese takeout.
Knowing first hand the difficulty of moving forward with development projects during the current market, the revised version is fine with me. Evidently, the original just wasn't feasible. An urban strip mall (Five Points, Avondale's strip and San Marco Square are all urban strip malls), as long as there's no asphalt parking lot up front, beats having a vacant lot. Besides,for all we know, it could be built in a manner that will allow for future expansion.
Well if they still own 1.07 acres and are only using .29 for this project, then it would seem there is room for more in the future.
OCKLAWAHA
Very true. The amount of acreage between the original project and the revised version would suggest there may be land for future expansion.
Ahh the old bait and switch. Economy was more favorable in 2004 when proposed, so it seems that's why they scaled back.
My cynical side says what you see is all you will get...
Wish I could be more positive but someone point out a project or two where this has not been the case...
Cheer me up!
and yes I think the fenced in lot is ugly but again another terrific looking project compromised.
I know the economy stinks and I guess its the price we pay for living in Florida with our bad real estate market.
oh and by the way a Japanese/Sushi restaurant in taking over the old Aura Thai space in Murray Hill....
QuoteI know the economy stinks and I guess its the price we pay for living in Florida with our bad real estate market.
The problems with the economy and housing market are not exclusive to Florida.
I agree with lake though. I think that an urban strip mall could create a unique pedestrian environment for the area with such close proximity to the hospital. I would think a cafe or restaurant could do very well there.
No matter what any one says it still is a cop out.....
It will probably do fine for the hospital crowd but I think it is too isolated to be big with anyone else....
Unless a very nice and unique business goes in. If it's ordinary it will be DEAD after dark.....
Bottom line it's now a glorified strip center that's isolated and I don't think it will be active except during the day......
QuoteBottom line it's now a glorified strip center that's isolated and I don't think it will be active except during the day......
I think that if a decent restaurant or bar-type establishment decided to locate there it could be an active place during the evening. Something similar to the Brick maybe would work well.
I wouldn't necessarily consider it "isolated". There is a lot of residential around the area. The retail establishments in Avondale seem to thrive and you could argue that those are isolated in the same way that this is isolated.
Yeah, I wouldn't consider it being isolated. It would be a pretty decent spot for a restaurant/bar. In addition to St. Vincents, its also pretty close distance to several multifamily buildings located on the surrounding streets.
You are right there are a lot of homes in the area but without a really special restaurant or bar they will be dead at night. Park a King with a lot more going on is not on fire after dark. This little strip is isolated from the action spots like 5 Points and, like I said, unless a really good place goes in, lights out at dark....
If I am wrong correct me.....
Name a spot in the area that does a strong night business that is off the beaten path....
I'm sure day time will be great.
Shantytown and Three Layers Coffeehouse in Springfield are two examples that immediately come to mind. How is Restaurant Orsay on Park Street doing?
Yucky, I would not settle for the new concept.
Is there anything the city could/should do to help with the residential component? Maybe a small tax break?
QuoteHow is Restaurant Orsay on Park Street doing?
- Looks like they're doing great. We had to wait last Saturday eve @ 10 & they had not even officially opened yet. BTW they place is really really good. Any rumors on what might go into the space next door (former bar/pool hall) - It looks like it could be a great compliment to Orsay if thought out.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 08, 2008, 11:51:36 AM
Knowing first hand the difficulty of moving forward with development projects during the current market, the revised version is fine with me. Evidently, the original just wasn't feasible. An urban strip mall (Five Points, Avondale's strip and San Marco Square are all urban strip malls), as long as there's no asphalt parking lot up front, beats having a vacant lot. Besides,for all we know, it could be built in a manner that will allow for future expansion.
Sure, vacant lots suck, but why rush to develop the land when there's not enough financial backing to do what's best for the area? Once it's developed, it's developed. End of story (for a few decades anyway).
And I don't think this thing will at all resemble Five Points', Avondale's or San Marco's strip. Sorry. I just don't buy it. Developers do what is least expensive, not what will stand the test of time.
I'm with you on that one Stug. Its better to suffer a vacant lot in one of our most beautiful urban neighborhoods than to build something for the sake of building it. If the developer can't afford to carry through with the original design plans, why not bring in some other investors or sell the property?
QuoteIf the developer can't afford to carry through with the original design plans, why not bring in some other investors or sell the property?
I doubt the issue is whether or not the developer can afford to build the original design, the problem is there are not willing buyers for the residential units. It would not make sound business sense to build residential units when there are no buyers. Do you honestly think it would be easy to find additional investors willing to take that risk in this market?
ok the examples you cited were very good but.....
Anything in Springfield should work...
3 Layers is awesome and a similar concept at this site would do very well too.....
Orsay is surely going to be a great local spot....
If an Orsay type establishment opens there it will probably do really well.
LIke I said if it's not special the place will close at dark....
And cline the original concept was apartments, just go back to that idea.
Apartments would probably do very well there.
And then at a later date they could be converted to Condos
My complaint is the developer scrapped the whole plan and came up with an inferior one.
If all the projects that are affected by the downturn in housing take a similar approach then we will end up with watered down strip centers and wasted opportunities.
Quote from: cline on September 09, 2008, 10:35:19 AM
QuoteIf the developer can't afford to carry through with the original design plans, why not bring in some other investors or sell the property?
I doubt the issue is whether or not the developer can afford to build the original design, the problem is there are not willing buyers for the residential units. It would not make sound business sense to build residential units when there are no buyers. Do you honestly think it would be easy to find additional investors willing to take that risk in this market?
If no other investors could be found then why not sell it or hold onto the property until the market turns? Also, were the originally proposed units ever available for presale?
Quote from: stug on September 09, 2008, 09:30:55 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 08, 2008, 11:51:36 AM
Knowing first hand the difficulty of moving forward with development projects during the current market, the revised version is fine with me. Evidently, the original just wasn't feasible. An urban strip mall (Five Points, Avondale's strip and San Marco Square are all urban strip malls), as long as there's no asphalt parking lot up front, beats having a vacant lot. Besides,for all we know, it could be built in a manner that will allow for future expansion.
Sure, vacant lots suck, but why rush to develop the land when there's not enough financial backing to do what's best for the area? Once it's developed, it's developed. End of story (for a few decades anyway).
I don't know the developer's financial situation, but if they are paying interest on the land, everyday it sits costs money. It could be in their best interest to move forward with a viable alternative instead of waiting for the market to correct itself.
QuoteAnd I don't think this thing will at all resemble Five Points', Avondale's or San Marco's strip. Sorry. I just don't buy it. Developers do what is least expensive, not what will stand the test of time.
I didn't mean to suggest that it would be a scale that resembles Five Points. However, its about the same size as the building that houses Three Layers. I don't think anyone would suggest that Springfield is better off without that establishment. Depending on what goes in, this building could bring similar life to that corner.
Quote from: avonjax on September 09, 2008, 12:09:47 PM
My complaint is the developer scrapped the whole plan and came up with an inferior one.
If all the projects that are affected by the downturn in housing take a similar approach then we will end up with watered down strip centers and wasted opportunities.
Or they could demolish what was on the site before (this has already been done) and decide to wait out the market. 20 Years later, the project never comes to life again and we're left with a vacant lot. The story I just described is how many of the surface parking lots in downtown became to be.
Good point, Lake.
Alright Lake, you've changed my opinion. Build the damn thing already! :)