First Coast to gain second commercial airport
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/skybus/skybus-airlines.jpg)
Starting in July 2007, Columbus-based Skybus Airlines will begin flying out of St. Augustine Airport, providing the First Coast with two local options for commercial air travel.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/457
I still believe if the St Augustine Airport was to truly ever support commercial flights, a new facility will have to be built in a new location. The land the airport sits on is way too small.
The runway at St. Augustine will hold anything flying today. It once held the Concorde, many ytears ago. With the proximity to the railroad, there is an opportunity for a multi modal site, including the fact that the FEC is not unwilling to discuss passenger traffic of some sort from Jacksonville. The authority has been purchasing or discussing purchasing land west of the tracks for years. The Authority over the years has been r eluctant to seek out commercial carriers or have made a half hearted effort. Even declaring several years ago that they were not interested in commercial carriers, an interesting postion for a public airport. Lets all hope this experiment works. There is a big market on the west coast for carriers from Indianapolis to Ft. Myers, we might be able to replicate that effort on the east coast. Of course, if the airport authority were to move quickly, the Hastings area would be great for a new airport and the land the exisiting airport sits on would be great for commercial and residential development. That is a nice wish and will probably not happen.
it's too bad that Skybus only flies to Columbus, OH from St. Augustine. Unless you only want to go there, it makes no sense to fly on the airline. I even planned out flights from Columbus to other cities in hopes that there would be some significant savings -- no dice.
A heckuva lot can happen in 10 years(Sure Kevin might find a sense of humor): The growth at St. Augustine's Airport creates the potential for another Transit Oriented Development destination along a possible commuter rail system that could connect downtown Jacksonville to St. Augustine within the next 10 years.
:o
A single 10,000 foot runway for St. Augustine? What happens when the wind is blowing out of the SW or NE? I am not sure I want to be flying skybus with a nice 30 mph crosswind. Get out the barf bags.
THIS is a major step in the right direction. If we can duplicate Orlando-SANFORD Int'l and let St. Augustine have the charter business as well as a basic scheduled network we will be in a cat bird seat. Don't know if y'all know, but St. Johns County ALREADY has plans on hand for a multi-modal Airport/Train Station/Bus Terminal that will be built over US 1 and on both the Airside and Railside. These plans are several years old, I figured with Bush stomping Amtrak expansion, it was dead. Now that I read this, coupled with the "buying land west of the Railroad comment." I'd say, get ready, because here it comes. I also believe all of this is related to the CSX application to go to 3 or 4 tracks, high speed, with no grade crossings, and Amtraks comments "We'd like to extend the NE Corridor all the way to Florida. Super Railroad is coming and St. Augustine, Miami and Jax have all announced plans for Transportation Centers. Miami's is called Central Station.
Ocklawaha
Miami's station is currently under construction
//www.micdot.com
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The most impressive thing this will do for South Florida transit will be the expansion of Metrorail to Miami International Airport. Finally, you'll be able to effectively fly into South Florida and get around fairly easily (excluding South Beach), without a car.
Miami Intermodal Center
(http://www.earthtech.com/images/projects/transportation/main/TR_PI1_MiamiIntermodal2.jpg)
I am sure that miami is getting some help from friends in DC and Tally due to their population density and traffic woes. We have neither here. Don't hold your breath for this in Jax.
Nobody is holding their breath, not because of affordability (look at the outer beltway as an example), but because of our local outlook towards things like this and the tendency to make excuses for not being able to think outside of the box. Eventually something will happen, but we'll be pulled kicking and screaming, instead of being a leader for a change.
QuoteSt. Augustine Airport expanding
The St. Augustine Airport is gearing up for expansion after landing its first commercial flight, with Skybus Airlines this summer. An Environmental Resource Permit application filed by the St. Augustine-St. Johns County Airport Authority proposes the construction of 301,600 square feet of asphalt for an aircraft parking apron, and 54,300 square feet of taxiway and related infrastructure on a total of 10 acres. The project would affect a tributary to the Intracoastal Waterway.
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/092407/bus_201372312.shtml
I flew Skybus to Columbus and have to say that I was very pleased with the personell and the airline. The actual terminal is very simple but still pleasant and effecient. Parking was absolutely free for me but once the gate system is finished there should be a $5 a day fee for long term. The plane was sold out both directions and baggage claim was a breeze.
They have a good thing going but a new terminal would be a nice eventual upgrade.
From the St. Augustine Record: Sep 7, 07QuoteA proposed $21 million multi-modal transportation center, which would include an Amtrak rail station, might not be coming to St. Johns County as soon as previously thought.
Concerns about the immediate necessity of such a project were voiced during a Monday meeting of the St. Augustine/St. Johns County Airport Authority and the St. Johns Board of County Commissioners.
And, with sentiments running toward not rushing too hastily into the project, questions arose regarding who should take the lead role for the project and whether to move forward with a smaller first phase to accommodate Amtrak.
Commission Chairman Marc Jacalone voiced concern about the county taking control of the project.
"The question is, does the county want to assume the role of the entity to move this project forward?" Jacalone said. "I don't see us being that."
Seconding his thought was Commissioner Mary Kohnke, who suggested that the airport authority be the one to take control of the project.
She questioned whether the project could move forward in smaller steps.
"We could phase the project if needed," said Ed Wuellner, the airport's executive director.
He also mentioned that the project's $21 million price tag could be lowered.
"Our feeling is that it could be completed for 10 to 15 percent less than the $21.22 million," Wuellner said.
The proposed terminal on U.S. 1 across from the St. Augustine/St. Johns County airport could be a regional site for Amtrak trains to stop and direct passengers to taxis, rental cars, limos, Greyhound and Sunshine Bus connections and the airport. Amtrak plans to return service to North Florida's east coast, stopping in cities like St. Augustine and Daytona Beach that currently have no rail service.
According to an airport authority report, the station project would employ 1,100 people in construction, transportation and retail trades, resulting in an estimated $64.2 million in increased tourism, business activity and tax base.
The authority owns 8 out of the 21 acres allotted to the project, Wuellner added.
Bill Rose, chairman for the authority's board, said Amtrak has told the board that initially, all that's needed to move the project forward are a platform, parking lot and other small details.
The idea is it would start small, Rose said.
Wuellner agreed, stating, in response to board questions, "Yes, we can do that first step. Our intent was certainly to phase it."
An update on Amtrak's position is needed, and the first step should be the authority taking control of the project, Rose continued.
"Our responsibility is to come up with a phasing plan as a proposal to the county," Rose said.
But Commissioner Nicholas Meiszer questioned whether the county needed such a center.
It can only be successful with a population over 500,000, preferably closer to 1 million, Meiszer said. Right now, St. Johns County only has around 123,000 residents.
"I expect the day will come when this will make a lot of sense, when the passenger demand is great enough to justify this," Meiszer said. "But a tremendous amount of homework needs to be done."
Also in question was what financial risk the county must assume in order to go ahead with the project.
"Amtrak wants each small community to build facilities at their own risk," said Joe Cirello, authority board member. "If Amtrak goes belly up, it's on us."
By the time the discussion ended, commission and authority members alike agreed that the meeting had been beneficial, and other such meetings should take place in the future.
No date was give for possible meetings, however.
"The project has possibilities and should be pursued in an appropriate fashion," Jacalone said.
Jacksonville may get it's multi-modal center without kicking and screaming. In fact we may lead the State in the first Air/Rail station. Yes, I've seen the Miami plan, it is a Rail depot and multi-modal Bus center, connected to an airport. It shares things like Car Rentals and Baggage Claim. What St. Augustine plans is a true Multi-Mode Terminal, with Air, Rail and Bus gates. So to all the prophets of doom out there, just imagine our big City with a real transportation first... Imagine, yes, because it looks like St. Augustine is far in the lead.
But then they got a 400 year head start...God bless St. Augustine!Ocklawaha
Maybe they should consider commuter rail between their city and Jax? It would be more beneficial to the community and attract more day-to-day riders than Amtrak (alone) would.
Funny you should mention that... The Florida East Coast called and left a message today. Seems there's an officer there that want's to chat with me. Interesting. I'll let you all know how it goes.
Ocklawaha
Good luck at the meet Ock! But I'm not waiting for the commuter rail to start using St. Aug Airport/ Skybus, TBDBITL are only $60 and an hour and a half direct flight for me ;D
Skybus is my savior from all these UF fans. ;)
So how did it go with FEC, Ock? Are you in railroad jail now for your heresy? :D
Without making an announcment FOR FEC (far be it from me to put words in their mouths), let's just say that everything I have said about the LRT or Commuter Rail being doable, is indeed VERY DOABLE! Somewhere between let's talk doable and we're downright excited doable... TRUTH! Gator, while I've managed to stay in trouble most of my life, I've stayed out of jail (so far so good) LOL!
Ocklawaha
It would be interesting to see how much land Flagler Development owns along the tracks between downtown and St. Augustine. With developments like Flagler Center at I-95 & St. Augustine Rd, they stand to make a ton of money on potential transit oriented developments.
Lake, the land was granted in alternating sections, by the Federal Government. Often the State and Local Governments would toss in sections of their own on top of this. Believe me, Flagler/FEC is well aware of what Mass Transit on rails will do for their properties. In fact they're banking on it, and say so in the press.
Land Grants. What is generally NOT known, is the railroads were required to carry government freight and passengers at a fraction of cost, for over 100 years. The "grants" were finally taken to court, where it was decided the railroads had indeed BOUGHT that land, several times over the value.
Ocklawaha
Wow. Getting FEC on board with commuter rail would be HUGE. I hope something comes of this. Also, werent they sold to another company recently? Perhaps the new guys recognize the potential of TODs.
FEC wasn't sold, the just moved their headquarters to Jax.
They were sold to Fortress Investment Group, which is some private equity firm. Operations will be run by the same people. I think they essentially just bought the stock.
QuoteFlorida East Coast Industries, Inc. ("FECI") (NYSE: FLA) announced today the completion of the merger transaction in which FECI has been acquired by a company formed by certain private equity funds managed by affiliates of Fortress Investment Group LLC, pursuant to a previously announced definitive merger agreement entered into on May 8, 2007.
Seems pretty vague...
FEC was mostly a privately held corp. Um, in fact, FEC broke the union hold by having federal marshalls on their trains firing riffles at the union workers whenever the union tried to block the trains in an effort unionize the FEC. I'm happy to see the FEC being rewarded for keeping the rail a right to work place. I bet they got lots of money giving there's no union there.
Gatorback, your a little behind the curve. That was the FEC of 1963. The shotgun riders were due to the Union boys blowing a couple of trains to kingdom come with TNT. The Union was broken, but long before anything recent happened, they came back. The FEC WELCOMED the contracts and opened their doors to the UTU, BLE, BRAC, etc.
As they enter the new era, they have moved to the Fortune group. This includes FEC the RY and Flagler development Corp... ie: Nocatee. The Fortune group bought out one of the nations largest shortline holding companies AND the FEC in a separate deal. The FEC is not the same. New blood has come in at the very top and sweeping changes have occurred under the able hand of an old time railroaders - railroader. Mr. John D. Mc Pherson, CEO, is from the Illinois Central/CN, when he looked at the property he filled a notebook with places to improve. After he showed the notebook to the head of the investment group, they broke up their meeting, by the time he got home the phone was ringing... "You know, we REALLY like that notebook! If we buy it will you operate it?" So FEC got a new Daddy and a new brass hat. The train crews are paid hourly and swap out half way to Miami, so they get to go home after work. They are better paid and have better benefits then CSX or NS employees. Further, Mc Pherson often marks up as "Engineer" or "Conductor" and may show up anywhere, anytime. He also embraces fans, including a high school boy, reported to have a scanner in New Smyrna and who inspects the trains as they pass! Mc Pherson stopped in just to thank him!
Not you fathers FEC Gatorback...
Ocklawaha
So, does Mc Pherson get paid extra if the train goes more then 125 miles. In my railroader days, I understood that the crew got paid more if they went further then 125. I think their contract was they got paid a days pay for how far a train could go in a day. Way back then, a train could only travel 125 in a day and that contract exsists today.
Nope, the old 100 mile law is long gone, nationwide.
Divisions are consolidated, and much bigger,
division points have closed and crew change stations gone
MW no longer uses camp cars, Holiday Inn or Best Western takes care of them!
dispatch is centralized in mega centers (watch for this to change back to more local)
shops are consolidated
private owner freight cars are soaring in number
firemen are gone
long distance run-through-trains with another railroads power are standard
brakemen mostly gone
cabooses are "pushing platforms" or gone
2 man crews are standard nationwide
EOTD the End of Train Device or black box are standard nationwide
most trains are now pre-blocked for destination which closed hundreds of yards
gateways are down to just a few dozen nationwide
traffic has grown to the highest levels in history
12 hour law is about to bite the dust too. (Look for 8-10)
railroads are re-entering business they had given up to trucks, time-sensitive etc...
throttles are now on a "desktop" and whistle cords are now a small button
crew comfort issues are taking main stage, AC, toilets etc
CTC is the rule on mainlines
Hourly pay is in the cards for more and more employees
branchlines have been sold to "mom and pop" shortlines.
thousands of miles of second and third main tracks are going down... Chicago-LA BNSF, LA-New Orleans UP, FEC (planned), NY - Miami CSX (planned)
watch for CTC to come to NS in the JAX-ATLANTA corridor soon
Road Railers and containers will conquer the world
Trolleys and DMU'S will run over the BRT plan in Jacksonville
Ocklawaha