Metro Jacksonville

Urban Thinking => Analysis => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on September 04, 2008, 05:00:00 AM

Title: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: Metro Jacksonville on September 04, 2008, 05:00:00 AM
Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-6042-p1140042.JPG)

Grand Rapids, known as the Country's Furniture City, shines as Michigan's strongest metropolitan economy.  

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/875
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: stjohnsguy on September 04, 2008, 07:14:45 AM
Note to Jacksonville Leaders:
When replanting trees along downtown streets use shade trees (Oaks,Maples,ect)NOT PALM TREES!!! In the summer it is 112 degrees every day.It is too hot to walk in a suit with no shade.JMO
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: stjohnsguy on September 04, 2008, 07:20:13 AM
Also how large of a Convention Center could be build on the Southbank JEA land?Across from the Shipyards.Anyone know the size of that property?
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: Captain Zissou on September 04, 2008, 09:45:36 AM
It is at least 40 acres.  I do not know of a convention center anywhere near that large, maybe in Dubai... ;)
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: Lunican on September 04, 2008, 10:38:29 AM
The Orange County Convention Center (Orlando) is 2.1 million square feet (48 acres).

Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: TD* on September 04, 2008, 12:02:05 PM
Good article. I enjoyed looking at Grand Rapids. I hope Metro Jax does a segment on Tallahassee Soon.
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: Jason on September 04, 2008, 01:27:45 PM
Great read.  Looks like the major pie in the face for Jax is the convention center situation.  For a city our size, we are grossly underserved.  That is the one thing that sticks out in all of these articles.


BTW, You forgot the 4th Fortune 500 company in Jax, Winn-Dixie.
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: ProjectMaximus on September 04, 2008, 01:41:30 PM
I don't think Winn-Dixie is HQ'd downtown. MJ is always comparing downtown companies in these city profiles.

Quote from: Jason on September 04, 2008, 01:27:45 PM
Great read.  Looks like the major pie in the face for Jax is the convention center situation.  For a city our size, we are grossly underserved.  That is the one thing that sticks out in all of these articles.


BTW, You forgot the 4th Fortune 500 company in Jax, Winn-Dixie.
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: ProjectMaximus on September 04, 2008, 01:43:09 PM
And yeah, I've come to realize that the convention center is an obvious handicap for a city our size. National and regional conferences could help put the city on the map and contribute to new development.
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: TD* on September 04, 2008, 01:49:33 PM
I say Jax builds a new Convention center, 2.5 Million sqr feet, put it right on JAX BEACH.  This way it really is a destination,
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: apvbguy on September 04, 2008, 03:47:21 PM
Quote from: TD* on September 04, 2008, 01:49:33 PM
I say Jax builds a new Convention center, 2.5 Million sqr feet, put it right on JAX BEACH.  This way it really is a destination,

where in JAX beach is enough open land? I agree a convention center would be great, but JAX beach?
it would be better placed nearer the core, where infrastructure is already in place.
there is a huge open tract of land on the southbank near where the duval school headquarters building is, that could be relocated and the property used and the skyway could easily be extended to serve the area
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: Jason on September 04, 2008, 04:29:04 PM
IMO, the old JEA southside generating station is no better than where it sits now (save the river view).  It would be much more isolated, no transit connection, and no surrounding ammenities to offer.  At least the Prime Osborne gives conventioneers quick access to the skyway and I95.

IMO, the "old" courthouse site is the best fit for a new center, assuming the skyway or some other form of transit can connect it ot the rest of the core. 

Also (another pipe dream) if the transportation center were to be compacted into the existing convention centersite, a new center could be built where the proposed transportation center sits now allowing it the same easy access to transit and give the transportation center back its spine and become a truely effecient Union Terminal as it once was.
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: apvbguy on September 04, 2008, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: Jason on September 04, 2008, 04:29:04 PM
IMO, the old JEA southside generating station is no better than where it sits now (save the river view).  It would be much more isolated, no transit connection, and no surrounding ammenities to offer.  At least the Prime Osborne gives conventioneers quick access to the skyway and I95.


the hotels and restaurants there wouldn't be close enough for it?
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: TD* on September 04, 2008, 06:07:26 PM
I think we should stop looking at the skyway as a viable transportation option, we all know its a blunder and will not be expanded very much more ever if at all.
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: apvbguy on September 04, 2008, 09:55:50 PM
Quote from: TD* on September 04, 2008, 06:07:26 PM
I think we should stop looking at the skyway as a viable transportation option, we all know its a blunder and will not be expanded very much more ever if at all.
if you leave it the way it is you're right it's a blunder, but it could and should be extended and a few wise extensions could make it quite valuable


Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: thelakelander on September 04, 2008, 10:02:06 PM
For comparison's sake, the 1 million square foot riverfront Grand Rapids convention center occupies 13 acres.  The courthouse/city hall annex site combined with the Hyatt occupies 13.42 acres.
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: civil42806 on September 04, 2008, 10:15:46 PM
Quote from: apvbguy on September 04, 2008, 09:55:50 PM
Quote from: TD* on September 04, 2008, 06:07:26 PM
I think we should stop looking at the skyway as a viable transportation option, we all know its a blunder and will not be expanded very much more ever if at all.
if you leave it the way it is you're right it's a blunder, but it could and should be extended and a few wise extensions could make it quite valuable




The skyway is not viable unless we find an unlimited source of revenue.  I'll say on this post and every  other one ,2.5 miles for 184 million dollars unadjusted for inflation.
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on September 04, 2008, 10:32:56 PM
Quote from: stjohnsguy on September 04, 2008, 07:14:45 AM
Note to Jacksonville Leaders:
When replanting trees along downtown streets use shade trees (Oaks,Maples,ect)NOT PALM TREES!!! In the summer it is 112 degrees every day.It is too hot to walk in a suit with no shade.JMO

Oaks and Maples drop too many leaves for downtown street trees, that would cause drainge problems, I dont know of any city where you can expect to be in the shade t/o the whole downtown area, also palm tree roots are not aggressive and dont buckle pavement.
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: stjohnsguy on September 05, 2008, 07:42:54 AM
Other cities use them by the thousands so they must have solved those problems.In a recent MetroJax article with video they asked people what attracted people to downtown streets many said the streets with a tree canopy.South Florida has nothing but Palm Trees and concrete unless you are on the beach IMO it is one of the most unattractive areas I have lived in.
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: Jason on September 05, 2008, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: apvbguy on September 04, 2008, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: Jason on September 04, 2008, 04:29:04 PM
IMO, the old JEA southside generating station is no better than where it sits now (save the river view).  It would be much more isolated, no transit connection, and no surrounding ammenities to offer.  At least the Prime Osborne gives conventioneers quick access to the skyway and I95.


the hotels and restaurants there wouldn't be close enough for it?

What's left of the restaraunts would be nice but everything is still separated by a sea of parking.  I'm not saying it wouldn't work but in my opinion, the original plans for mixed use developments on the JEA site and the site next door would be a much better use of the property.
Title: Re: Elements of Urbanism: Grand Rapids
Post by: thelakelander on September 05, 2008, 03:23:58 PM
The county courthouse/city hall annex site on Bay Street would be a much better location for a convention center.  The Hyatt, Landing and Bay Street Entertainment District are already in place to serve as complementing anchors to a convention center.  Drop the center into that spot and everything is already in place.  Drop it on the JEA site and we still have to spend money to pull the complementing activity next door.  Then when this done, we'll have two areas competing with each other instead of complementing.