Now that the winds have carried me from Riverside to San Marco, I thought this would be a good time to re-examine the area's history.
Here is the only article I can find online that goes in-depth as to San Marco history:
http://jaxhistory.com/news7.htm
As for what I know about the area:
I know that this area used to be called Oklahoma.
I've heard that the banks of the St. Johns came up to what is present day San Marco Blvd, the rest of area was man made land fill.
Also I've seen old pictures in which the Southbank extended out in a sand barge like fashion well into the river close to the northbank, showing how narrow the St. Johns used to be. I would really like to know the history on how the river was dredged so that ships can pass through and how the land mass was expanded.
Additionally, I've heard that back in the 80's -90's the area used to be a quite grungy/down trodden counter-culture hangout, well before 5 points got situated.
What I'd like to do is tap the metrojacksonville collective for any personal stories, history lessons they have of the area.
Your comments are appreciated.
One of the names in the article seemed familiar. Ock will appreciate this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Mitchell_(politician)
QuoteAlso I've seen old pictures in which the Southbank extended out in a sand barge like fashion well into the river close to the northbank, showing how narrow the St. Johns used to be. I would really like to know the history on how the river was dredged so that ships can pass through and how the land mass was expanded.
That sand bridge was likely the point where the city's forefathers passed cattle and other supplies across the river before the bridges were built, hence the original name "Cowford". Jacksonville was established some time later and named after Andrew Jackson.
The currents created the sand bar on the Southbank, but the tight turn to the East in downtown always made the channel quite deep. In the War of Yankee Aggression, steam and sailing ships of both sides, some with a 20 foot draft, had no problem sailing the river to a point at Palatka, where there really WAS a shallow bar blocking the channel most of the time. Only smaller vessels could go up river (south) from Palatka.
So Cowford was never a shallow western type crossing, rather a narrow, swift and dangerous twist in the river the shortened the distance but not the cost in stock or humans lost! Beware of photos showing the giant sands on the Northbank, they were pumped up in the 1960's. The river once extended from San Marco Blvd to Bay Street. SO much of todays town is on fill and in flood zones.
Lastly, I don't believe the grunge stories of San Marco proper. The grunge factor would have been from the FEC railroad at Atlantic, straight north to the river (JEA SIte). Through the early 1960's this was all a railroad yard and FEC had docks, Atlantic Marine? had terminals all in the area. The infamous collision between a SOUTH JACKSONVILLE MUNI RAILWAY streetcar and the FEC took place at Atlantic. The car ran as far as Philips. Tracks were watched by flagmen, and the flagmans stand was empty. The lantern was setting out as-if things were clear. The flagman in an early morning fog had gone to check a long train of cars being shoved backward toward the docks. The streetcar and the box cars got there at the same moment and the flagman took to the birds. It wrecked the train, folded the streetcar somewhat in a classic T-Bone crash. A local mechanic on his way to work on Kings Road was killed when he somehow jumped out of the streetcar... bad choice, as he was crushed to death under the box car wheels.
There was also a FEC junction south of the new JEA sub station construction and North of Atlantic. This was the branchline to Jax Beach and Mayport. A gingerbread depot stood there until about 1970.
OKLAHOMA? No wonder they changed the name! LOL!
OCKLAWAHA
Thanks Ock. No kidding on the Oklahoma name!
"hey let's go to the oklahoma square theater and catch a movie"
As for the grungy/beatdown San Marco of the past decades, I don't have anything to back that up, it just came up in a few casual conversations with some of the long time residents.
I remember going up to Smoothie King back around the early 90's for the first time and discovering the entire San Marco area (my parents kept me confined to the engelwood area most of my childhood) I especially thought it was cool how the skyscrapers hung in the foreground as you drive down Hendricks blvd, from that angle it really does make our skyline look respectable.
Anyway, back to the history lesson. I believe the area around Hendricks going towards the riverfront used to a seperate city known as south Jacksonville. Infact, South Jacksonville's old city hall is right near the railroad tracks on Hendricks. Here's more info from jaxhistory.com
"One of the most exciting projects in the history of SMPS is in the beginning stage. The society is currently negotiating to lease the old South Jacksonville City Hall. The two-story yellow brick building at the corner of Hendricks Avenue and Cedar Street is one of the oldest remaining buildings in the San Marco area, dating to 1915. According to Dr. Wayne Wood, author of Jacksonville’s Architectural Heritage, the building was funded as part of a $65,000 bond issue for civic improvements in South Jacksonville; the building is one of the few reminders that South Jacksonville was a separate and distinct town from Jacksonville, from its incorporation in 1907 to 1932, when the area was annexed into Jacksonville. "
My nana who was born in 1914 told me how she used to take the ferry across the river, stop in South Jacksonville for a bit, then take St. Augustine road (which was a dirt road) to see her sister down in ...well, St Augustine. I believe the old acosta bridge ,or the st johns river bridge, wasn't built until 1921, and the main st didn't come along until 1941. That's so hard for me to picture now, but it's really cool to imagine a time when the only way to get around was by ferry or train. (I think the railroad dates back to the late 1800's yes?)
It'd be interesting to see some stats on south jacksonville. Who was the mayor, the population of the area, etc.....
South Jacksonville was quite small in population even in the 1920's. The San Marco addition really made a town of it. I've seen some figures about 1919 or so that peg it at about 800 (if memory serves me right).
The original railroad was narrow gauge, 3' foot, (which is one of the world standards for narrow gauge and still used in many places, including my F.C. Atlantico, and F.C. Pacifico in Colombia. The new coal route in NE Colombia is American standard gauge to Puerto Bolivar. This is where the coal would originate for the new coal terminal on Talleyrand IF IT'S BUILT). It dates to the late 1870's. As a monopoly on local transportation they tried to hijack Flagler on the cost of shipping materials to his hotel projects in St. Augustine... Big Mistake - HUGE! Flagler simply ate them up and spit them out, turning the whole thing into todays FLORIDA EAST COAST. That's what you get for screwing with Standard Oil...
Is the society trying to get the San Marco Station site too? I think it MIGHT be the sitge of the old South Jacksonville MUNI carbarn.
OCKLAWAHA
my quick internet search of "south jacksonville" history yielded these brief tidbits:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhoods_of_Jacksonville,_Florida
"In 1907, the town of South Jacksonville (now the Southside neighborhood) incorporated with a population of some 600. In 1913, 96 South Jacksonville voters approved the issuance of $65,000 in bonds for civic improvements, including a city hall. The building, at 1468 Hendricks Avenue, was completed in 1915 and is one of the few remaining signs that South Jacksonville existed, if only for 25 years. In 1932, the city of Jacksonville annexed the area, and it ceased to exist as a separate government entity."
http://www.sjaxpc.org/index/about_us
"South Jacksonville Presbyterian Church is an urban congregation located in San Marco Square in Jacksonville, Florida. Our congregation’s rich history began in 1913 in the small Florida town of South Jacksonville."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Jacksonville_Grammar_School
"The South Jacksonville Grammar School (also known as The Lofts San Marco) is a historic school in Jacksonville, Florida, United States. It is located at 1450 Flagler Avenue. On April 15, 2004, it was added to the U.S. National Register of Historic Places."
http://www.jacksonvillebeach.org/index.asp?nid=149
"The Jacksonville and Atlantic Railway Company was chartered in 1883 to build sixteen and a half miles of narrow gauge railway from South Jacksonville to the Ruby Beach settlement. The company acquired many acres of choice oceanfront property which was divided into lots."
LOL, Turns out there was rail out to the beaches!! Unfortunately, Ruby Beach, which later became Pablo Beach, and finally Jacksonville Beach, was decimated by fire...the railway depot, along with hotels such as Murray Hall (which claimed Ruby Beach as the finest in the world) Adams House, the Perkins House, the Continental, the Ocean View and the Palmetto Lodge were among the buildings destroyed by fire in the late 1800s.
Thanks for all the input. It's great!
Last night I wanted to rant on about several other things about San Marco, but decided to stick to the history track, but here's what I really think:
San Marco seems to be in the circle of the urban core neighborhoods, but it really does get over-shadowed by the more historical, grander neighborhoods. Read some of the historic district free papers and notice that it only includes Riverside, Springfield & Murrayhill. Hell, even read the topics on this site and there's only like what, not even a dozen?
Plus it really does feel different over here. It's like a disconnected feeling mainly because of the river. Especially in the current pro bike and pedestrian movement that has thankfully struck the area and cities alike nationwide. I used to think that the bridges linking both sides were enough, but after living on the other side of the river for awhile, it really was nice being able to bike to Murray hill or Springfield without having to rely on only two routes to get there. The river is truly the core's version of "the ditch"
Example: I wanted to ride my bike to 5 points recently, but you can't "legally" be a pedestrian or a cyclist on an interstate, so if for some reason you're wanting to be law-abiding citizen, taking the fuller warren is off limits.
I'm trying to keep it on topic here but basically i'm curious as to what the southside of the river's role has been in Jacksonville history. It seems like a strong divide in terms of local culture. It also appears that most of our history did happen on the North and West side of the St. Johns. I can't seem to dig up any info on San Marco other than the few tidibits posted already.
Go Oklahoma!
QuoteLOL, Turns out there was rail out to the beaches!! Unfortunately, Ruby Beach, which later became Pablo Beach, and finally Jacksonville Beach, was decimated by fire...the railway depot, along with hotels such as Murray Hall (which claimed Ruby Beach as the finest in the world) Adams House, the Perkins House, the Continental, the Ocean View and the Palmetto Lodge were among the buildings destroyed by fire in the late 1800s.
There were three, the narrow gauge J&A which followed Beach Blvd. The line sold to Flagler and was standard gauged as part of the Florida East Coast. The track lasted until about WWII but operations were cut and abandonment approved in the first couple of years of the depression. The freight traffic was heavy back in the day as Mayport had a huge coal terminal-dock. As both ships and rail went to burning bunker fuel oil, the coal docks closed leaving only a few widely scattered customers. The railroad ran "COMMUTER RAIL" over the line through the 20's but in those days it was more a "palmetto-creeper" then a "silver flash". When the line closed City Commissioner St Elmo Acosta tried to get the city to buy it and convert it to a fast Interurban. Sadly the city was "too smart" for that and opted for a highway.
Railroad two, was the Jacksonville, Mayport and Pablo Beach, it was built as standard gauge in the late 1890's and ran from the Arlington Ferry landing to about Hanna Park, via todays Wonderwood Connector. At the beach a branchline ran north to Mayport. Another line ran southward toward Pablo (Jax Beach). As it had no physical connection to the rail system, it was pretty much doomed from the start. Then the sole locomotive broke down on the grand opening excursion. The merrymakers uncoupled the coach, loaded up the women and kids, then PUSHED it back to Arlington. From that day to this JM&P was the "Jump Men and Push". In a final effort to survive, a line was angled from Arlington to South Jax, (roughly University and Atlantic). But by then the FEC and Flagler had entered the picture and he wasn't going to feed the competition. Mail continued to be hauled after abandonment by a hand car into the early 1900's.
Mayport Terminal Company, was built to handle the trains and docks of both railroads, but faded to paper status as it all came under the heavy FEC hand. OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: David on September 03, 2008, 12:44:03 PM
Thanks Ock. No kidding on the Oklahoma name!
"hey let's go to the oklahoma square theater and catch a movie"
As for the grungy/beatdown San Marco of the past decades, I don't have anything to back that up, it just came up in a few casual conversations with some of the long time residents.
I remember going up to Smoothie King back around the early 90's for the first time and discovering the entire San Marco area (my parents kept me confined to the engelwood area most of my childhood) I especially thought it was cool how the skyscrapers hung in the foreground as you drive down Hendricks blvd, from that angle it really does make our skyline look respectable.
Anyway, back to the history lesson. I believe the area around Hendricks going towards the riverfront used to a seperate city known as south Jacksonville. Infact, South Jacksonville's old city hall is right near the railroad tracks on Hendricks. Here's more info from jaxhistory.com
"One of the most exciting projects in the history of SMPS is in the beginning stage. The society is currently negotiating to lease the old South Jacksonville City Hall. The two-story yellow brick building at the corner of Hendricks Avenue and Cedar Street is one of the oldest remaining buildings in the San Marco area, dating to 1915. According to Dr. Wayne Wood, author of Jacksonville’s Architectural Heritage, the building was funded as part of a $65,000 bond issue for civic improvements in South Jacksonville; the building is one of the few reminders that South Jacksonville was a separate and distinct town from Jacksonville, from its incorporation in 1907 to 1932, when the area was annexed into Jacksonville. "
My nana who was born in 1914 told me how she used to take the ferry across the river, stop in South Jacksonville for a bit, then take St. Augustine road (which was a dirt road) to see her sister down in ...well, St Augustine. I believe the old acosta bridge ,or the st johns river bridge, wasn't built until 1921, and the main st didn't come along until 1941. That's so hard for me to picture now, but it's really cool to imagine a time when the only way to get around was by ferry or train. (I think the railroad dates back to the late 1800's yes?)
It'd be interesting to see some stats on south jacksonville. Who was the mayor, the population of the area, etc.....
Growing up on the Westside I never remember going to San Marco until I was in high school in the 80s. I used to go to the Loop restaurant and remember the movie theater but there was not much else there and the area was pretty run down until fairly recently. The Setzers eventually became a PicnSave and that stayed there until the late 90s. Firehouse Subs was a Paul Lewis Tire and the shoe store just north of the theater was a Peterson's 5 and 10. All of this was redone in just the last 10 years. But it was never grungy just kind of dead. It was never like 5Points though which is where the punkers hung out in the 80s.