What's Good for the Goose is Good for the Gander
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Disclaimer: We regret that some of our viewers are having trouble distinguishing a purely informational article from a factual-based opinion. For those viewers, we'd like to take the opportunity to make it clear that this particular article is of the Opinion variety. Now let us begin...With all the recent rhetoric from the mayor's office about how much the quality of life will be diminished if the state legislators cut our property taxes, the mayor has yet to cut the job of anyone significant from his own staff.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/467
What was the previous PD making? What does the PD in similiar size cities make?
Present the facts and let the reader draw his or her own conclusions.
These articles would have more impact if they stuck to the facts and left out the 'liar' , 'anointment' type comments. Editorial commentry should be under the Opinion section.
I agree. They should also have the author's name attached to them. Any why what's everyone's opinion of Thoburn's desire to revise our zoning ordinance to enforce higher design standards for suburban strip malls?
Brad Thoburn ReinventsQuote"We have to think of these corridors, and many times they really are, the front door of our neighborhoods," Planning Director Brad Thoburn said.
Thoburn is hoping to shift from the strip mall concept to designs similar to the St. Johns Town Center, where buildings are clustered, parking isn't a focal point and walking from store to store is encouraged.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=5.0
Looks like a positive move to me. Hopefully, more are on the way.
He has apparently been lurking around MetJax.com and has picked up some good ideas....
I like you guys. Your combination of passion and "boots on the street" information of the issues pertaining to downtown is very valuable.
But using the words "spokesliar" is unproductive and frankly, juvenile. Seems like one member of your consortium (I am guessing the one I haven't met yet) needs to tone it down.
Two steps forward with insights and information, one step back with name-calling.
I agree. This was poorly written. Are there no editors to go over these screeds before they are posted? Also, the whole make fun of the South and the alleged "Good Old Boy network" gets a bit tiresome. First of all, instead of all of Jacksonville's perceived failings being caused by a secret cabal, perhaps the majority of people in town just dont agree with you. Instead of insulting them and turning them off entirely, I find it more productive to work within their framework and show them a better way.
I am glad to see these kinds of comments regarding this article and the ones before it by JaxInvestor. I have expressed my concerns before regarding some of his posts.
I truly believe that the following needs to happen if this site is going to grow into a viable alternative of information -
-all items should be submitted to editor(s) and reviewed for content prior to posting. Most "papers" have editors that review the story content and then assign a headline to the article.
- if the article is an "opinion article" it should be duly noted and titled OPINION from the time it is posted. It should also be signed by the opinion writer and there should be a disclaimer that says "the opinions stated here do not necessarily reflect those of the paper.
- there should be an opinion column section on the site where we can click and read the opinion so as not to be confused that it is an article based on facts, instead of someone's own opinion.
Do you really have that much problem distinguishing fact from opinion? It is CLEARLY listed under the "Editorial" section. Additionally, the opinion, in fact - like all good opinions, IS BASED ON FACT. I think there needs to be an education among some of the readers that opinion can be based on fact. I do agree that, ALL WORK - whether purely informational (which we certainly also hope is based in fact) or opinion (which should also be based on facts). Btw...to assume that an opinion piece 100% belongs to one author is a little foolish and a bit of "following the herd" mentality. Not all those who wander are lost.
What factual "inaccuracies" did you find in the article?
Btw...Pavers...the "spokesliar" comment was actually ADDED by our Editor!!! SURPRISE!! And I bet you HAVE met him. I personally thought it was strong and changed it BACK to "spokesperson".
RG--You are wrong...it was quite eloquently written. I think you may have just read it poorly. Maybe YOU are right...maybe there is no GOBN actually...maybe Thoburn actually WAS qualified (and not just "uniquely") for the position of Planning Director. In any case, that was not the point of the article.
Your comments and feedback are much appreciated.
There is a GOBN in the sense that politically connected people can get more things done than those who are not connected, but this is not unique to Jacksonville. It is pretty much the case everywhere humans congregate. So, to pretend that this is a unique Jacksonville phenomenon is a bit silly. I am not saying that Thoburn was qualified or that there is no room for improvement either (although I agree that he is showing signs of improvement). I just think this is the wrong approach. Y'all are free to do whatever you want, but if want to be effective, this isnt the way to do it IMO.
I think historically speaking, that is not accurate. Actually, unfortunately, it is only the times where we question and investigate that any effective changes are made.
It is a noble thought that the "provide good ideas and they'll listen" method works, but again, history proves otherwise. And I'd just like to say again that that is unfortunate...but that is the way it is.
Regardless of who wrote it, inserted it, or what have you, it's unproductive - I would think/hope most would concur.
A suggestion: how about simply labeling this article "Opinion: What's Good for the Goose..."
It seems that the disconnect, from my vantage point, is that most folks are readers of this site for the information and unique perspective - whether it's the photo shoots, "learning froms" or the analysis of the BRT.
One gets used to a steady daily stream of interesting information and insight - and then boom, a stick of opinionated dynamite gets tossed into the pond. As noted, if you're going to toss the dynamite, it ought to have a return address (signature).
Maybe it's just me, but such verbage just doesn't fit with the overall tone and demeanor of the rest of the content on this site. I'm trying to think of an analogy - here's one. It's like listening to a classical music station that gets suddenly interrupted by a heavy metal song. What's that doing on my channel?
As noted above by Kevin (who I look forward to meeting, by the way), questioning and investigating sheds light, which is a great thing. The BRT articles are well-done and moves the needle on public opinion. Which is a good for the site. Good for the city. Heck, good for democracy. More of that, please!
Best wishes to all,
Pavers
With all due respect to a few of my fellow readers, I also can't understand why some people are all bent out of shape about this. It seems it is the same crowd (4 or 5 people) that can't seem to differentiate opinion from information articles. By the way, I agree with Kevin that the powers that be seem to largely ignore 99% of the very good information that these guys/girls produce.
I think our Mayor should look at reducing his staff's salaries and even HIS OWN! That is what leaders do. They lead by example.
Was this article dynamite? Yes. Is it necessary? Certainly.
How many times this week has everyone checked out JCCI's website? Good stuff there: http://jcci.org/
This is interesting. If you check JCCI's web stats, metrojacksonville.com is ahead in popularity by almost 4 MILLION websites.
So much for good ideas and good behavior...
Kevin,
Did you not get a Happy Birthday Card from Brad? Did they mayor take you off the GOBN list? Will you miss Warren Alvarez? What is the real rub here?
to the GOBN is still "in process" according to their website. And, sadly, no birthday card from Brad :(
Warren is leaving?
You could take some pointers from Littlepage. He infuriates people on a regular basis using the english language without resorting to slanderous or libelous comments. Could be he learned that in college journalism or at least follows the advise of the paper's legal counsel.
If you aren't impressed with Littlepage there are plenty of opinion writers out there to google.
Suzanne,
By your comments it appears that you are still operating under the assumption that I was the lone author of this piece. While I would love to claim it as such, it would be disingenius of me. I wrote absolutely NOTHING slanderous or libelous. Further, I would argue that the co-author of the article, while using some harsh words, wrote nothing slanderous or libelous. One of the premises for libel is that the statement in question must be false.
I'm an american tree farmer.
unfortunately the GOBN is real and exposure is neccessary for change. Most of us know the definition of insanity and its insane to believe our city will evolve and change with the same system in place. just travel throughout your state and see the differences amongst the metro areas vs jacksonville. What it balls down to is the city government. Prime example The Southside energy complex owned by JEA. If they clean up there own mess they will sell it a lot faster. So if you haven't caught on to my point it's probably because one way or another those in opposition to the opinion benefit for the GOBN in some facist of your there own lives. accountability&responsbility=change
nativeson: So you are saying that the same GOBN that produced Peyton also produced Delaney and Glover? If so, why is the GOBN network so inconsistent and why cant they make up their minds? [insert sarcasm here] All this GOBN talk is just a bunch of whining by people who did not get their way. I dont always get my way politically either, but it is usually because my side loses an election not because there is some racist/wealthy/homophobic conspiracy. It just happens. This is our system.
Kevin - Tree Farmer? More like Methane extractor. ;D
screw social service budgets, johnny's goin' ta China.
Those who think 70% of people in this town approve ( and anyone can run for office if they don't ), you need to spend some time on the streets seeing how most of us live. It cost millions $$ to buy the mayor's office. Our political system is so corroded and deceitful that the majority of people in this town have just given up and stopped participating. To wit, the turnout in our last local election.
of course, this suits those in power very well. Being outraged is appropriate. Expressing our indignation here is small solace for us weary citizens in this land of the powerfully indifferent.