http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/082208/met_321591304.shtml
QuotePeyton requesting San Marco, Riverside residents move up or out as river threatens to overflow; tornado watch issued
Overflow of St. Johns River likely at high tide just before 3 p.m.; tornado watch issued for region until 6 p.m.
By Jim Schoettler, The Times-Union
Jacksonville Mayor John Peyton is urging a voluntary relocation or evacuation of San Marco and Riverside residents who will be threatened by an overflowing St. Johns River at high tide this afternoon.
The National Weather Service said high tide in the area is just before 3 p.m.
The river overflowed in the same spots about 2 a.m. because of Tropical Storm Fay's winds and heavy rains. While pumps are working in San Marco, the capacity is not able to handle the volume, city officials said. There are apparently no pumps in Riverside.
Peyton toured both neighborhoods before noon and said he is worried for residents' safety and their property. He said he is also worried about sewage backing up in the area.
Peyton said he is recommending impacted residents move their vehicles and either move themselves and any valuables to higher ground in their homes or leave.
Peyton said he hopes the action will not be necessary again as the slow-moving storm moves away, but he said its continued crawl is a concern.
Deteriorating weather conditions in different parts of the region have also led the National Weather Service to issue a tornado watch until 6 p.m. for Baker, Clay, Duval, Nassau and St. Johns counties. No funnel clouds have been reported.
Conditions have been deteriorating in the Jacksonville area throughout the day as Fay's gusty winds and heavy rains continuing pounding neighborhoods. Just before noon, a roof was reported blown off an apartment building near downtown at 1407 Jefferson St., though no injuries were reported, fire officials said. About noon, a roof collapsed on a
Biltmore home in the 5500 block of Amazon Avenune, leaving a mother and six children drenched but apparently uninjured.
Emergency crews are also responding to numerous reports of trees and wires down, trees on homes and fires in electric transformers.
Meanwhile, authorities are now blaming Fay for three deaths in the region. One person died and another was critically injured when a car hit a tree that had fallen on Church Road at U.S. 1 in Nassau county this morning. The weather is also being blamed for the death of a 16-year-old whose car collided with an SUV after spinning on wet pavement Wednesday in Jacksonville. And a 21-year-old Indiana woman died Thursday after being caught in rough surf at Neptune Beach.
In a separate incident, a 50-year-old man was critically injured this morning at the Bow and Arrow Campground in Nassau when a tree fell on him. And one person was slightly injured when a tree fell on a Jacksonville home Thursday.
Officials throughout the region were advising residents this morning to keep indoors as work crews attempt to clean up toppled trees, downed power lines and other debris left from a night of Fay's pounding rain and howling winds.
In Jacksonville alone, police and work crews are tackling more than 80 reports each of downed trees and power lines, while several streets are blocked in flood-prone areas such as McCoy's Creek and Hogan's Creek, said Lt. Darryl Daniels of the Sheriff's Office.
"Going out on these slick roads will cause nothing but problems," Daniels warned.
Power outages continue to be a region-wide hassle. Nearly 100,000 homes and business in the region remained without power at 11 a.m., including 76,000 JEA customers mostly in Duval, 11,000 FPL customers in St. Johns, 7,700 FPL customers in Nassau and 5,100 FPL customers in Flagler.
People who do venture out in Jacksonville will now find all but the Dames Point bridge open, Daniels said. Nearly every bridge in the city was closed at some point overnight because of high winds. Police continue to monitor the bridges and will close them if their gauges measure sustained tropical storm force winds of 40 mph.
Gusts recently reported about 9:30 a.m. include 57 mph at the St. Augustine Airport and 53 mph at Jacksonville Naval Air Station. Forecasters predict strong gusts from a departing Fay will continue through much of the day.
Heavy rains are expected through the weekend. As much as seven inches of rain has fallen since Wednesday in the Jacksonville area, much of which came since late Thursday, the National Weather Service said. Up to seven inches has fallen in Nassau County, a county official said. Other parts of the region saw varying rainfall totals. Those totals could increase to up to 15 inches in some spots through the weekend, said Steve Letro, meteorologist in charge of the National Weather Service.
A tropical storm warning covers the region, while there is a flood warning in place until 3:15 p.m. for Duval, Flagler, Nassau and St. Johns counties, Letro said.
Flooding and fears of rising water is occurring in some of the usual spots, but one rare line of floodwaters has also been the St. Johns River. Letro said Fay's stiff winds and the wind direction caused the banks of the river to overflow in Jacksonville and Flagler County at high tide. The river is about 18 inches higher than it was Thursday in Jacksonville, according to the U.S. Geological Survey.
Residents of Black Creek in Clay County are being warned that water will rise above the 16-foot flood stage today and will likely be at 20 feet Saturday. A few homes are then likely to flood, though most don't take on water until the river reaches 22 feet, which is not expected, said Jim Corbin, the county's emergency management director.
Another flooding concern is in Baker County, where officials are mulling over whether to issue an evaucation order for low-lying homes over the rising St. Marys River.
Fay's continued threat led region officials to close schools, most government offices and courts today.
As of 5 a.m, Fay's center was hovering over Gainesville with the system continuing to track westward at around 6 mph. It had been mostly stationary until picking up steam early today.
Most of the region's trouble began Thursday when the center of the crawling storm finally made its way on shore about 2:30 p.m. near Flagler Beach. Tropical storm force winds of at least 40 mph extend 100 miles from the center, while rain extends at least 200 miles, said Steve Letro, meteorologist in charge at the National Weather Service in Jacksonville.
"This is just a huge, huge system," Letro said.
The storm's impact is being felt by travelers at Jacksonville International Airport, where at least a half-dozen flights have been canceled.
Among those who suffered were the Israel family, who learned Thursday three of their flights to New York were scratched. Emily Israel, 8, said she is still hoping the Jacksonville family can make it to her cousin's bar mitzvah on Saturday.
"We've been planning on this for a year," said a dejected Emily, whose thoughts were interrupted by an announcement welcoming travelers to "sunny Jacksonville."
About 500 people took refuge in 13 area American Red Cross shelters overnight, including 100 at Landmark Middle School in Jacksonville, said agency spokeswoman Christian Smith. Several dozen new refugees piled into shelters this morning, Smith said.
Times-Union writers David Hunt, Rand Miranda, Tia Mitchell, Steve Patterson and Dana Treen contributed to this report.
jim.schoettler@jacksonville.com, (904) 359-4385
I just got back from walking through San Marco flood waters. Its pretty bad over there. The images of San Marco and Springfield should be up soon.
looking forward to seeing them
Here's a few:
Springfield
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/urbanjax7816/P1140826.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/urbanjax7816/P1140827.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/urbanjax7816/P1140837.jpg)
San Marco
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/urbanjax7816/P1140877.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/urbanjax7816/P1140869.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/urbanjax7816/P1140866.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/urbanjax7816/P1140864.jpg)
Parts of Ortega near Timuquana are currently underwater...people riding boats around.
Quote from: stephendare on August 22, 2008, 02:23:56 PM
Quote from: stephendare on August 22, 2008, 01:57:09 PM
Go To Jacksonville.com front page to download road closure maps of both riverside and san marco.
This is a photo taken on River Road in San Marco, along the St. John's River.
(http://www.jacksonville.com/includes/fay/images/fay_standingonwater.jpg)
Correction: That is the intersection of River Blvd. and Copeland St. in Riverside.
Vital important transit information is perhaps being lost in our zeal to see "the most shocking" photo.
Is someone, ANYONE, making a list of every street flood, no matter how big or how little? If so then a reverse list could be made of the roads that DIDN'T FLOOD and we have our evacuation pathways, ready to label in every part of town. JTA? Anyone listening? Streets? Public Works? Anyone home? JSO? Got a list?
OCKLAWAHA
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Special%20Effects%20Images/sinkingbus.gif)
Tropical Storms can prove all sorts of transit technology. Perhaps this one did something FOR us, rather then just TO us?
OCKLAWAHA
OMG!!!! Riverside floods are the worst! I can only imagine what Post & College look like. I don't understand what the cartoon is trying to say. Can you explain it?
Yes, it's a slam at the general "turtles" of Jacksonville. Those who are oblivious to the needs of their city, but ever present when $$ is mentioned at ANY city meeting. In this case, we have flooded Riverside, San Marco, Brooklyn, LaVilla, Downtwon, Springfield etc... and our great bus transportation system has gone off into a puddle. As the bus sinks, the conversation goes on and on... "Talk about a waste of money, (We should be thankful that) our city killed expansion of the Skyway." The "SKYWAY" is the 1/3 finished downtown monorail and the ONLY transportation system in town - besides the river taxi's, to be uneffected by the flood water.
An example of this logic is the $100 Million set aside for mass transit in the Better-Jacksonville-Plan, I am told, the money is available for any mass transit project but excludes the SKYWAY by name! DUMB!
In the original plan the Skyway was to go into San Marco (FLOODED TODAY), Springfield at Shands Hospital, (FLOODED TODAY), Riverside-Brooklyn (FLOODED TODAY). Live here and you better buy a boat.
OCKLAWAHA
just about anything from 1st to State and Market to Boulevard
3rd and Silver/Lauara/Boulevard, throughout the areas surrounding the park
Quote from: stephendare on August 23, 2008, 12:00:03 PM
The karpeles was under water.
However the area was still navigable by means of the FCCJ parking lot and the modern bridges and roads.
So, the water was 40 feet deep there?
BTW, flooding in Riverside/Avondale was quite limited and less than I had expected. The suggestion that evacuations were needed was laughable.
It is ludicrous to call for evacuation in Riverside/Avondale when the flooding here was about as bad as when a strong thunderstorm hits. Note that I am limiting my statement to this area only.
Quote from: stephendare on August 23, 2008, 01:18:47 PM
Well, if I were you, when I was done investigating the Rezko scandal, I would open another investigation into the mayor's office taking a proactive stance on the possibilities.
Your premise is ludicrous and frankly so stupid as to be dangerous.
Its the kind of thinking that gets people killed, and you should stop it.
Who was killed? I only heard about one young lady who died while swimming in the ocean.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on August 23, 2008, 09:15:58 AM
Yes, it's a slam at the general "turtles" of Jacksonville. Those who are oblivious to the needs of their city, but ever present when $$ is mentioned at ANY city meeting. In this case, we have flooded Riverside, San Marco, Brooklyn, LaVilla, Downtwon, Springfield etc... and our great bus transportation system has gone off into a puddle. As the bus sinks, the conversation goes on and on... "Talk about a waste of money, (We should be thankful that) our city killed expansion of the Skyway." The "SKYWAY" is the 1/3 finished downtown monorail and the ONLY transportation system in town - besides the river taxi's, to be uneffected by the flood water.
An example of this logic is the $100 Million set aside for mass transit in the Better-Jacksonville-Plan, I am told, the money is available for any mass transit project but excludes the SKYWAY by name! DUMB!
In the original plan the Skyway was to go into San Marco (FLOODED TODAY), Springfield at Shands Hospital, (FLOODED TODAY), Riverside-Brooklyn (FLOODED TODAY). Live here and you better buy a boat.
OCKLAWAHA
Ahh I got you Ock. Wouldn't the trolleys suffer from the floods also since they are at street level? Putting the Skyway "up in the Sky" was a good Idea I guess. I would seem that the water is suppose to drain to the St. Johns, but the St. Johns is over flowing so where is the water suppose to go? Nieghborhoods that flood like this should have a Skyway Station, but man in time it looks like the flood water is getting deeper. What can Jax do not to become the next New Orleans tragedy?
Quote from: stephendare on August 23, 2008, 01:53:37 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on August 22, 2008, 11:37:12 PM
Vital important transit information is perhaps being lost in our zeal to see "the most shocking" photo.
Is someone, ANYONE, making a list of every street flood, no matter how big or how little? If so then a reverse list could be made of the roads that DIDN'T FLOOD and we have our evacuation pathways, ready to label in every part of town. JTA? Anyone listening? Streets? Public Works? Anyone home? JSO? Got a list?
OCKLAWAHA
Ocklawaha. you are so right. Tragically, brilliantly right.
At first I thought that the city must have done the reconaissance work, since there was the comprehensive street closings list (whose links from the jacksonville.com site I posted above).
However, as Lee Harvey and I did a fairly thorough drive around in the core districts, we found that the closed roads did not actually match up to the flooded roads, meaning---one can only assume-- that the city was working with pregathered information that no longer accurately reflects the on the ground reality.
I wonder if we should post a street grid of the internal neighborhoods and ask people to contribute which streets were flooded and which ones werent, and how badly.
The flooding in the old Dignan Park system (confederate park, klutho, and springfield etc) was just breathtaking.
The karpeles was under water.
However the area was still navigable by means of the FCCJ parking lot and the modern bridges and roads.
All basements were "underwater" the Karples building was not, the water came up to the steps, the basement entrance on the side may have flooded, becasue it had water in it last week and it wasn't even raining. In fact I don;t know of any houses in Springfield that flooded, nor did we lose electricity. parks yes, homes no.
there's at least one I know of that the basement has water in...but overall, we made out very well
I had a little flooding and water damage at my house too. Nothing catastrophic though and we are dealing with it.
I drove through Springfield today and saw no evidence of a massive flood. The park had some standing water but that was about it. It was about what you would expect from such a heavy rainfall.
The flooding in Springfield had pretty much receded when I drove through the neighborhood this morning. Had you gone through yesterday at any time, you would've seen how badly it was flooded
Quote from: RiversideGator on August 23, 2008, 06:42:53 PM
I had a little flooding and water damage at my house too. Nothing catastrophic though and we are dealing with it.
I drove through Springfield today and saw no evidence of a massive flood. The park had some standing water but that was about it. It was about what you would expect from such a heavy rainfall.
Flooding is to be expected unless the city does soemthign with Hogans Creek. It needs to be dredged at a minimum and cleaning up all trash and educating morons on throwing batteries, shopping carts, and tires in it further north and west would be a good start too... This si the worst I have seen it flood yet, the water was up to the bottom of the score board and that has got be around 3 feet. Overall though, compared to the rest of the downtown neighborhoods Springfield weathered the storm best of all.
The Lakes helped, and certainly need to be re-installed, but its worth mentioning that they didnt solve the problem on their own. I mean, I know I am new to town, and dont know squat, but I seem to remember something about Kluthos Plan including flood gates and massive pumps being installed at the foot of the creek.
Im not as cool or as informed as you. Didnt you hang our with Klutho back when you were helping plan Arlington?
Quote from: RiversideGator on August 23, 2008, 06:42:53 PM
I drove through Springfield today and saw no evidence of a massive flood. The park had some standing water but that was about it. It was about what you would expect from such a heavy rainfall.
Did you really see no evidence at all?
None at all. I saw evidence of some standing water but no evidence of massive flooding by any means. And, contrary to what some say, I am not making light of the misfortune of others. I personally suffered flood and water damage but the truth is this wasnt that bad of an event on the whole.
Quote from: RiversideGator on August 25, 2008, 11:02:45 AM
None at all. I saw evidence of some standing water but no evidence of massive flooding by any means. And, contrary to what some say, I am not making light of the misfortune of others. I personally suffered flood and water damage but the truth is this wasnt that bad of an event on the whole.
So are you saying it didn't happen or are you just informing everyone that you missed it?
I live in Avondale and didn't see any flooding - not even much standing water - during the storm. I was surprised to hear the reports of flooding once power came back on. I guess it varied block to block.
It varied from block to block, with the lowest areas suffering the most. However, it appears most of the flood drained pretty quick once the rain stopped.
QuoteAhh I got you Ock. Wouldn't the trolleys suffer from the floods also since they are at street level? Putting the Skyway "up in the Sky" was a good Idea I guess. I would seem that the water is suppose to drain to the St. Johns, but the St. Johns is over flowing so where is the water suppose to go? Nieghborhoods that flood like this should have a Skyway Station, but man in time it looks like the flood water is getting deeper. What can Jax do not to become the next New Orleans tragedy?
No, more like a near miss rather then a gottcha. True, streetcars are in the street (sometimes) but they are also railroad-trains. This of course means they could be alongside the CSX on a 12' high bank of dirt. Or running up through Springfield, on an abandoned railroad grade that is already 4'-6' high. The streets that I have laid out, don't have flooding. The segment over Hogans Creek east of downtown to the Stadium would be on private right-of-way, in fact a fairly steep grade to obtain the level of Phillip Randolph. So as long as the grade was built for drainage, so as not to become a dam, I don't see the water overtopping it. Most folks don't know the upper line on Duval (a historic trolley route) not only serves the Cathedral District, The Library, Museum of Modern Art, City Hall, Skyway, Metropolitan Lofts, New Court House, La Villa School of the Arts, Ritz etc... It also crosses the crest of a large sandy hill that Jacksonville is built on. This hill is high enough above the river that we "could" build a subway (if we completely lost our minds).
Someone else mentioned TUNNELS, why didn't we just have tunnel's... Good question. Modern tunnels would work all of the time and allow for traffic in the worst conditions. But be careful what you ask for (and I AM a big tunnel supporter) we already have one! Anyone that has not driven to the west end of Bay Street and turned South through the Myrtle Avenue Subway (The trolley went down the center, look at the ceiling there and you can see where the metal "pans" carried the power through) is in for a shock. Just don't try it after a rain. The old Jacksonville Traction Company probably had huge electric pumps to keep it bone dry, but when they shut down in the early 1930's, whatever they used was disconnected. Thus we have a unique water-world every storm from 1930 until today... Progress Phooie!
When I went over my newspapers for Donna and Dora, two tropical storms that beat the #($^&#^ out of us back in 1960 and 1964 I found a classic line. "The toll takers on the bridges said the gusts from Dora were more like earthquakes"... Which tells us the mind set of our fair city.
THE TOLL BOOTHS WERE OPEN THROUGH THE STORMS!
WITH 127 MPH WIND, SO WAS THE MATTHEWS BRIDGE!
But hey, we didn't lose a dime!OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: stephendare on August 25, 2008, 11:09:36 AM
Quote from: RiversideGator on August 25, 2008, 11:02:45 AM
None at all. I saw evidence of some standing water but no evidence of massive flooding by any means. And, contrary to what some say, I am not making light of the misfortune of others. I personally suffered flood and water damage but the truth is this wasnt that bad of an event on the whole.
In your opinion, River, whats the worst event youve personally experienced in jax so far?
Are we talking natural disaster? :D
Quote from: Lunican on August 25, 2008, 11:14:25 AM
Quote from: RiversideGator on August 25, 2008, 11:02:45 AM
None at all. I saw evidence of some standing water but no evidence of massive flooding by any means. And, contrary to what some say, I am not making light of the misfortune of others. I personally suffered flood and water damage but the truth is this wasnt that bad of an event on the whole.
So are you saying it didn't happen or are you just informing everyone that you missed it?
I am saying some localized flooding occurred in the old City of Jax but that it wasnt unprecedented by any means or even as bad as other storms.
Quote from: will on August 25, 2008, 11:22:25 AM
I live in Avondale and didn't see any flooding - not even much standing water - during the storm. I was surprised to hear the reports of flooding once power came back on. I guess it varied block to block.
the riverside area was much worse than Avondale - I'm in Avondale as well, and water never even came close to cresting the street.
The water warnings are rolled back to Wednesday, Black creek is flooding some homes and the St. Marys is 2' over the mark, The St. Marys will only get worse with all that is falling on Georgia. Thomas Creek in Nassau County is in flood stage between Jax and Callahan. Middleburg residents are completely cut off from waterfront homes, using boats for transport.
For my money, watch the St. Marys... 21 foot crest, 9' over flood stage and growing. That big swamp drains South Georgia but how many knew it's the only swamp of it's type on top of a hill? TRUE! Thus I fear for those folks.
OCKLAWAHA