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Nobody that has ever lived in flood or flash-flood country would risk driving in these conditions, but as long as there are elevated alternatives, dryer and higher hiways, then there is no reason why the transit system shouldn't be part of the solution rather then adding to the pain.
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So effective this afternoon, Weds. about 5:00 PM, COJ pulled the plug on JTA. JTA ordered all of it's buses terminated and everyone and everything back to the garage.
This whole excercise was for a thunder-storm formation that WAS once part of a tropical storm... WAS being the key word. Even if it were not, this is simply the wrong thing to do... Anyone remember the Big Easy? Folks swimming in the streets, sitting on rooftops, and, and, and, packed into buses on freeway overpasses? How may I use theee, let me count the ways:
Instant shelter in any given neighborhood, a 40 foot Gillig bus is a hell of a nice place to spend the night if the creek is in your living room.
Why not a plan that includes certified red-cross volunteers, first aid kits and bottled water on all coaches when a storm hits?
Why not cut the runs to the small neighborhood streets or ANY street that has a flood history, and move those coaches onto arterial roads in a pre-determined, "Emergency schedule"
We have 5% of 1.5 MILLION persons riding on the JTA system. As a rule, it is our lower income 5% but that is not the case with early AM and 5-6 PM crowds. So there is the mayor saying get batterys, water, canned food, and oh, by the way, you'll have to walk to work tomorrow, cause we're outta here!
Big buses, flooded roads and downed power lines or felled trees + narrow roads, all make for a nightmare situation. SO AVOID THAT with a well known, well published, distributed, "STORM PLAN". Send a message to rich and poor that "WE ARE HERE FOR YOU JACKSONVILLE".
Need a non-emergency lift to a clinic? call JTA INFO...
Need some water, say your neighborhood wells are contanimated? call JTA INFO for FREE water delivery...
Need to get to work at the hospital? Clinic? Food Store? Base? Public Office? Uh, call JTA INFO...
Stop lights are down and your afraid to venture out in your Mini? Call JTA Info...
Sheriff needs to clear your neighborhood due to some hazard but the cars in the shop? Call JTA Info... The buses will be lining up right by the Sheriff Office cars at the corner.
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I am NOT recommending this, however, in a Katrina situation, this would probably look pretty sweet don't you think?
IS is just me or is this another example of someone at FDOT, USDOT, TSA, CD, COJ, JTA, SOMEONE DOESN'T GIVE A DAMN!
... frankly 'Mam, I DO GIVE A DAMN!
OCKLAWAHA
Not a dumb move at all....the idea is to discourage people from travelling, period!
And there is no reason to put the buses, their drivers, and any riders at risk.
Another viewpoint....as New Orleans showed, buses may be needed for evacuation purposes...this way they are ready!
QuoteThis whole excercise was for a thunder-storm formation that WAS once part of a tropical storm... WAS being the key word.
Actually, it still is a tropical storm.
Like tufsu said, no need to put more people at risk.
I have to agree, stopping the JTA services is a good idea....less people out and about and less people at risk. They've asked people to stay home, unless you absolutely need to be out and about.
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FEAR NOT JACKSONVILLE! THE RESERVES ARE READY TO MOVE IN AND MOVE US OUT!
People at risk? 30 drivers who would be from a volunteer list of "overtime desired"= emergency work approved.
Each driver would attend basic Red Cross training, rescue, CPR etc.
People at risk? 5% of 1.4 Million people that DEPEND on public transit.
Not your everyday bus or route: We would use only the largest buses, and the over-the-road MCI express buses.Drivers could get extra courses from the NSC, JEA, etc... Working in "less then ideal" conditions.
The plan would replace 49 bus routes M/L with maybe 12-15. Headways would drop to hourly. Storm routes would be marked, marketed, demonstrated to JSO, CD, DHS, TSA etc.
Only wide and better roads would be used in the "storm plan", such as Roosevelt, Edgewood, MLK-Kings, San Jose, Philips, Atlantic, Beach, 3Rd, JTB, Lem Turner, Norwood,
Service would be suspended only during times of Hurricane force winds. Otherwise, they roll on and on and on. Make JTA part of their lives, part of the City, part of buying batterys, going to a clinic, or delivery of water bottles. Of course, y'all are right, we could just hold the fleet back in case we needed it.
Little known fact, as Katrina moved into lower LA., Amtrak had two trains with a capacity of 800 passengers each. These were also held in reserve, to use if and when the storm got bad enough. In the cluster-mess of Katrina they sat until day 4 or 5 then Amtrak pulled the cars back to their base depots. Nobody "NEEDED" a ride!
Other little known fact, at the surrender of North Carolina, in the War of Yankee Aggression, the North and the Confederate States were stung by what agents found in NC. Warehouses full of rifle ammunition, new breech loading repeating rifles, uniforms, a quarter million new pairs of shoes, enough rations for an army of 1/2 million men to march for 6 months! Meanwhile, the tattered remains of the Confederate Army surrendered in their bare feet, in their last battles they threw rocks....
Why?
Because some "NC Planner" decided to hold back resources for the future. I'm not talking abou anything more then getting off our "ASSETTS" and iuse those JTA professionals to provide a basic supply of goods and services. quit following and LEAD the transit world in lush ideas and workable solutions. Just ask New Orleans.
OCKLAWAHA
I agree with Ock. This whole thing is a tempest in a teapot. The storm is about the intensity of an afternoon thunderstorm, if that. It is ridiculous to me that the whole city shut down today (and probably tomorrow) for this. I went to work anyway although I was about the only one.
Quote from: RiversideGator on August 21, 2008, 10:48:09 PM
I agree with Ock. This whole thing is a tempest in a teapot. The storm is about the intensity of an afternoon thunderstorm, if that. It is ridiculous to me that the whole city shut down today (and probably tomorrow) for this. I went to work anyway although I was about the only one.
not sure where you were last night, but it was pretty rough in the downtown area!
And good planning means taking every precaution....what would it have been like if the storm had come over Jax. instead of Palm Coast....better safe than sorrry!
I agree, no reason to take chances when you can err on the side of caution. The forecasts had laid out a nasty picture, and for many of the neighborhoods, it came true
Wills Branch creek on the westside is comming out of its banks, yet again. Thankfully it was recently dredged or the neighborhood would already be under water.
Flash Flood Watch for McCoys, Moncrief, and Hogan Creeks.
Tornado Watch until 6pm
Heavy wind and rain to continue.
Quote from: RiversideGator on August 21, 2008, 10:48:09 PM
I agree with Ock. This whole thing is a tempest in a teapot. The storm is about the intensity of an afternoon thunderstorm, if that. It is ridiculous to me that the whole city shut down today (and probably tomorrow) for this. I went to work anyway although I was about the only one.
Actually, it has done everything it was predicted to do. I think you may be forgetting the most important aspect... DURATION.
QuoteQuotenot sure where you were last night, but it was pretty rough in the downtown area!
And good planning means taking every precaution....what would it have been like if the storm had come over Jax. instead of Palm Coast....better safe than sorry!
I agree, no reason to take chances when you can err on the side of caution. The forecasts had laid out a nasty picture, and for many of the neighborhoods, it came true
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Buses designed for speeds up to 80 MPH shouldn't have any problem with 40 MPH wind gusts.
Seem to me "Every Precaution" would include making sure the whole of the City is mobile.... on demand. How much have YOU purchased since the storm started here? How many trips? Where and why? Now imagine you have NO CAR and need the same items... Without a "STORM PLAN" your screwed.
30 "at risk" drivers and buses - properly pre-trained - properly equipped to mix with fire, rescue, JSO, CD, EM, HSD, etc... properly HEROES, voice and leadership of the city...
30 at risk VOLUNTEER drivers = 1.4 Million LESS "at risk" citizens, you do the math.
Shift and continue the battle! (http://www.ada.gov/images/smallweb/City-Bus-with-Lift.jpg)
OCKLAWAHA
Using JTA for evacuation purposes is fine by me.
Ock was arguing that the City should keep the system open...or minimally set up a few designated bus routes to allow people to get around....that's exactly what we don't want during a tropical storm/hurricane.
Given all the flooding and tornadoes, having people on the road is a REALLY BAD IDEA!
I agree, and said so before...the idea was to keep people home and off the streets
Bob, you'd be proud...I'm watching the news and they're showing JFRD evacuating residents from a nursing home on Moncrief and guess what they're loading them onto...yup, a JTA bus
And I believe I heard at one of the Mayor's news conferences, that JTA Connexions - their small bus service for disabled people - was available to take people to shelters and to dialysis (if Shands was open Friday).
QuoteQuoteBob, you'd be proud...I'm watching the news and they're showing JFRD evacuating residents from a nursing home on Moncrief and guess what they're loading them onto...yup, a JTA bus
And I believe I heard at one of the Mayor's news conferences, that JTA Connexions - their small bus service for disabled people - was available to take people to shelters and to dialysis (if Shands was open Friday).
Yep, I'm proud of the boys and girls at JTA. THIS IS SERVICE! It's just the sort of thing that needs to be abailable to all. Making a statement that "JTA will close in 1 hour and during the storm." Well, that just didn't do the job, and 5 will get you 10 that it was a COJ decision. How many veterans, poor, middle class or other social groups could have been served from these same buses without the "JTA'S CLOSED NONSENSE."
Like I said, have a pre-determined streamlined system.
Use only the widest and highest roads.
Heaviest and most road friendly vehicles (MCI'S rather then old Gilligs or little vans).
Signs up and reoute information posted throughnout, even a handi strom tracking map, city services and JTA storm routes and schedules, at every
Special Drivers
(in severe cases ride along EMS personel.)
Use digital signs for storm information.
Not to encourage folks to go shopping in the storm, rather to hustle up the special needs cases all across the city and make them mobile, whatever their purpose, WITHOUT using their little light cars and top heavy SUV's. They would be much safer with a pro at the wheel.OCKLAWAHA