QuoteBy DREW DIXON, The Times-Union
A proposed cruise ship terminal in Mayport would have a five-story parking garage that could hold 1,400 vehicles, a two-story cruise terminal building and other features that would dramatically change the fishing village's waterfront.
Jacksonville Port Authority officials discussed those details publicly for the first time Tuesday during a meeting of the Mayport Waterfront Partnership, which advises Jacksonville City Hall on Mayport issues.
As has been the case in recent months as the proposal has been unveiled, most Mayport residents didn't give the port officials a warm reception.
"We don't want you here," said Mark Williams, who owns property in the village, which has about 70 houses on 80 acres just west of the mouth of the St. Johns River.
JPA Executive Director Rick Ferrin said Tuesday the proposal includes a two-story cruise terminal building that could service up to four cruise ships, a five-story parking garage to house all the cruisers' vehicles and a passenger drop-off area.
"We're not taking up the entire village of Mayport. We're only using eight acres. We're only using 1,000 feet of waterfront," Ferrin said. "We're trying to make this something that will not destroy or limit the use of Mayport. ... We're trying to do something that fits here and will be a benefit to you."
Ferrin said the $60 million terminal will encompass no more waterfront property than the eight acres the authority closed on in June for about $9 million.
The proposal would still need approval from the JPA board and Jacksonville officials, as well as at least one major shipping line client.
But the details of terminal plans fueled skepticism from many residents in Tuesday's Mayport crowd.
"It's basically unacceptable that a cruise ship is coming," said Williams, one of about 60 people there.
Residents from outside of the village also voiced opposition to the terminal plans.
"This is going to blight this whole village," said Lad Hawkins, president of the Greater Arlington Civic Council. "This is not a good thing for Mayport."
Gary Crumley, vice chairman of the Waterfront Partnership, said the JPA plans simply don't fit with the traditional fishing aspects of the enclave that was established in 1562.
"You're looking at 98 percent of the village in opposition. How much louder does that have to be before you guys get the message?" Crumley asked as the crowd erupted into applause. "What we want is shops, a village, a working park and waterfront that's accessible to the community. I don't see the compatibility here."
Demolition on buildings that used to house the Mat Roland seafood operations on land the JPA now owns on Ocean Street is scheduled to begin within two months.
A series of public meetings will be held before the JPA seeks to change the property's zoning designation from commercial to planned unit development, which ultimately would have to be approved by the Jacksonville City Council.
Ferrin and other JPA officials stressed the plans have not been finalized or approved by the JPA board. They have no commitments from any cruise ship companies, including those that use a temporary terminal west of the Dames Point bridge. That span blocks some of the taller cruise ships from porting in Jacksonville. The JPA wants to use the current terminal for a shipper, so the Mayport site would then be used for cruise ships.
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/082008/met_320679867.shtml
Quote"You're looking at 98 percent of the village in opposition. How much louder does that have to be before you guys get the message?" Crumley asked as the crowd erupted into applause. "What we want is shops, a village, a working park and waterfront that's accessible to the community. I don't see the compatibility here."
I wonder if both parties can work together so this project can have a mix of everything (cruise terminal, retail shops and public park in a village type atmosphere). With proper architectural design and building placement, this should be possible.
I doubt it...the vocal folks from Mayport are just 100% opposed to cruise ships docking there...they seem to think that their "quaint little fishing village" needs to be kept as is with some minimal revitalization.
But their village is dying. It needs a shot in the arm and a well integrated cruise ship terminal may be a way to get some improvements down there before its past the point of no return.
Their village is dying. It has been for quite some time. I grew up at the beach, and I do not recall anyone ever making much of an effort to do anything for Mayport. What action are all of these people taking aside from protesting the cruise terminal? You can tear down one idea, but do you have a better one? Do you have an alternative? IMO it seems they are long on emotion and short on ideas. I agree with you, Lake. The best possible circumstance would be to integrate all they wish with the new terminal. This is the closest thing to a "first step in the right direction" for revitalizing Mayport that I have heard in a while, once all the condo ideas went bust. It is important to note that the proposed site is a relatively small piece of the village. There will still be plenty of room for these people to implement their vision, assuming they can ever transform their vision into an actual course of action.
Last time I was there, most of the "shops" were closed and boarded up. I don't see how they're going to bring this "village" up to par. They have a convenience store, mostly run down homes and trailers, a few restaurants, a seafood comapny, and god awful Sun Cruz. Seriously, what are their plans? Also, I think Arlington needs to worry about their own damn community falling apart before looking at Mayport's shortcomings. I also doubt Mayport's founders really wanted to see their "village" looking like absolute trash.
STFU and get over it, this is your only real chance at change.
Agreed. The parking garage and terminal should definitely become an integrated expansion of the waterfront complete with retail, dining, and possibly office space for buisnesses linked to the cruise and travel industry.
This can be a huge plus for Mayport. I'm puzzled that the residents don't have any other input other than "We don't want it". Why not do some homework and help the city come up with a better solution?
These kind of situations are always very strange and unpleasant - but people who want progress have to honestly evaluate the motivations of the NIMBYs and decide if their concerns are valid. In this case, the anti-development concerns seem quite unreasonable and invalid.
Mayport is a pretty cruddy place, and the housing costs are obviously much lower than they should be, given the location. Sadly, in many dying communities, the residents often fight against improvements because they don't want to see their rent/taxes increase.
Additionally, after a certain period of stagnation, you get a lot of self-selection. Most of the residents moved to Mayport once the village was already run-down. It stands to reason that many of them like it that way. Or, at least, they like the isolation.
Furthermore, the alternative proposals are unreasonable. They want shops and a villiage?? I'm sorry, but they are damn lucky if 70 households could support a shop, let alone shops. People are going to have to come in from outside of the village one way or another. A cruise terminal garage is a whole lot better than the gravel parking lots they had for those casino boats for so many years.
It would be one thing if the] city were trying to use eminent domain or some inappropriate zoning scheme. But the fact of the matter is that this was a voluntary property sale, and the land use is quite consistent with past waterfront uses. The Mayport waterfront has had industrial fishing, casino cruse ships, boat storage/repair yards, ferry docks, and approved mid-rise condos. A cruise terminal is hardly out of character with these past uses.
I will always side that the local community should be able to limit development they do not want. I will also continue to be puzzled that people who move to Mayport do not want port, people who move near Craig Airfield do not want airfield and people who move to the core neighborhood of San Marco want sprawlville density.
My favorite part of the article is when someone claims that the cruise terminal will be a blight on the trash heap that is the Mayport village. It would be easier to sympathize with the residents if they were making any effort to have a well kept neighborhood.
Quote from: JeffreyS on August 20, 2008, 11:31:59 AM
My favorite part of the article is when someone claims that the cruise terminal will be a blight on the trash heap that is the Mayport village. It would be easier to sympathize with the residents if they were making any effort to have a well kept neighborhood.
What do you really think? :D
BTW, I think a terminal would be the boost Mayport clearly needs although a 5 story garage is not compatible with the creation of a nice village. They should try to be more sensitive to the residents while also improving the area IMO.
Here's some info about The Mayport Partnership, from the City's website:
http://www.coj.net/Departments/Planning+and+Development/Community+Planning/Mayport+Waterfront+Partnership/default.htm
Could they put street-level retail in those 5-story parking garages?
I wish we could find a proposed site layout. Perhaps, the terminal and garage could become the central anchor to the village Mayport residents want. Street/waterfront retail/dining/museum space with linear or centrally located public open and recreational space. That "central square", surrounded by retail space, could both serve as a gathering place for Mayport residents and tourists boarding the ships. All of this could occur at street level and the same structure could house parking and cruise ship terminal office space above.
Tampa's cruise ship terminal is attached to a two story structure with a movie cinema, IMAX theater, retail/restaurant space, tourist information center and a public plaza. There's also an aquarium and floating ship museum next door.
(http://www.wetwillies.com/manager/editor/images/pages/CHANNELSIDE-AERIAL-WEB.jpg)
(http://theboomerlive.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/port-tampa-satellite-mapimage.png)
Here is another option. This new terminal recently opened in downtown Norfolk. The cruise ship terminal is surrounding by a waterfront public park and naval ship musuem.
Norfolk, VA downtown cruise terminal(http://www.uoworks.com/articles/166articlepics/norfolk.CruiseShp113869.jpg)
(http://www.norfolkvisitor.com/half_moone_10.jpg)
QuoteThe city works hard to make your cruise from Norfolk VA as easy and pleasant as possible. The Norfolk cruise terminal dock is at a beautiful waterfront park and museum; not a dirty industrial district like in other ports.
A new cruise terminal for Norfolk opened in 2007. The new terminal is called the Half Moone Cruise and Celebration Center; named for a fort that once stood at the site. The 80,000-square-foot terminal has 33,000 square feet of space for events and a 54-foot mermaid image cast in the floor tile of its entrance.
As you can see in the photo, cruise ships in Norfolk dock next to Nauticus, the national maritime museum. It is well worth your time to tour Nauticus and the Battleship Wisconsin before or after your cruise.
http://www.norfolkvisitor.com/cruisenorfolk.html
Mayport is a bit removed to compare to Norfolk or Tampa, but it can easily incorporate many of the other amenities and be very successful.
Things I wouldn't mind seeing are retail/restaraunt space built into the garage, a hotel, and Mayport history museum all tied into an architecturally significant structure that blends in with the turn of the century architecture. The town could also look into a riverwalk and park similar to Norfolk.
Does anyone know how many ships would be berthed at one time? What parcel are they planning on developing?
Norfolk? Mayport?
Mayport? Norfolk?
Norfolk Maritime Museum? Mayport ? ? ?
Mayport ? ? ? Tampa Aquarium?
Aquarium? Museum? Retail?
Mayport? Partking garage?
Parking Garage -vs- Museum? Retail? Aquarium?
Norfolk LIGHT RAIL
Tampa STREETCAR
Mayport? Hello? Mayport? Come in Mayport? Hello?
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on August 25, 2008, 01:04:12 PM
Mayport? Hello? Mayport? Come in Mayport? Hello? [/color] [/b]
OCKLAWAHA
We need to learn how to think outside of the box. It seems that Jacksonvillians have gotten used to drawing lines in the sand and throwing the baby out with the bath water. Whatever happened to working together to solve problems. The port needs a cruise terminal and Mayport is a shell of its former self. Why can't we have a port terminal incorporated with a riverfront park, a few retail shops and waterfront restaurants, along with some sort of cultural attraction (all integrated with a parking garage)? Heck, if everyone is willing to sit together, a working water front along with a new terminal is highly possible.
One thing you should remember is that with a cruise terminal you will have home land security which will require a security zone with no boats or ships around. So no boats or shrimp boats will be allowed from the Coast Guard docks to the Ferry.
I would assume the same would have to exist for cities like Tampa. However in Tampa's case, there's a large marina, waterfront condos and working port terminals nearby. How large is the security zone?
QuoteSo no boats or shrimp boats will be allowed from the Coast Guard docks to the Ferry.
Nevermind, I wonder why they are allowed in Tampa and not in Mayport?
QuoteWaterways Commission approves Mayport land use change
(http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/articles/11_14_08/2a.jpg)
It wasn’t unanimous, but the Jacksonville Port Authority is one step closer to bringing a cruise ship terminal to Mayport Village. By a 6-3 vote, the Jacksonville Waterways Commission approved Thursday a land use change for 7.04 acres in the historic shrimping village, paving the way for the Port Authority to move its cruise ship terminal from the current Dames Point location to an area much closer to the Atlantic Ocean.
David Kaufman, senior director of planning and properties for the Port Authority, pitched the project to the Commission. The legislation would change the land use designation from community/general commercial to water dependent-water related. According to Kaufman, there are several more hurdles to clear before the Port Authority can break ground on the controversial project.
“We have to go in front of the Planning Commission this afternoon and two City Council committees â€" LUZ (Land Use and Zoning) and TEU (Transportation Energy & Utilities). Then, the full Council,†said Kaufman, adding approvals are also needed from the State Department of Community Affairs and the Department of Environmental Protection.
Waterways Commission Chair and Council member Bill Bishop led the opposition.
“I have serious problems with this property. I don’t think Mayport is the right place. I think it’s too small,†said Bishop. “It will literally obliterate the area.â€
full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=51233
Although I an excited about this project and think it will do wonders for our toursm base I can empathize with the current residents. Not to offend anyone, but to say that Mayport will lose its charm if the cruise ship terminal is built is strange. Since when do abandoned, rat infested buildings, broken down docks and weed and trash littered lots constitute charm? Hopefully the city and the port will do everything in their power to make sure that the residents reap benefits from this transition.
I kind of like the broken down docks and what not. I think it gives Mayport a sense of charismatic antiquity, but then I don't live there so I'm not the one who has to see it all the time.
Is it not sustainable for these two things to coexist? Maybe they could build the garage on the water and design it to look like docked ship or a fort or something?
If the Mayport residents do not want this I support them. I do not think however there is anything quaint about Mayport it is just ugly and trashy and they should embrace any change in fact demand lots of upgrades with the cruise ships. I know others do not feel this way but they probably would with one drive around.
I like the idea of the cruise terminal in Mayport only because it seems to be the best place for it in all of Jax. To get the largest and best cruise ships we have to have a terminal east of the Dames Point Bridge. I think that it well be a boom for Mayport. I'm sure the area business needs it what with the Kennedy living town a few years ago and no replacement so far (but maybe down the road). It's all in the name of progress and job/tourist growth for our city. I say bring it on, and yes I'd say the same thing if I lived out there.