(http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df2/df12172007d.jpg)
Anyone recall the report I posted after running the CRC at 80 MPH down in Miami? I didn't think much of it, good acceleration, but lots of plastic, bang, rattle and general airplane look alike.
Well looks like a meltdown at CRC is going on as we speak. Production schedule that went to hell in a handbasket, Alaska, Oregon and 10 Florida cars are all a year overdue. Orders are trickling out of the shop. Florida Fun Train has got into the game saying their whole operation was killed by CRC (then under a different name) due to lack of timely delivery. Mica is catching heat because CRC owners gave 3,000 to has campaign and more fingers are coming out.
(http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/Budd/budd%20rdc.jpg)
The biggest and most obvious to me, then and now is that the 1950's vintage RDC cars built by BUDD and used in Dallas and all over the World, are still nearly twice as fuel wise as is the CRC vehicle. Not to mention the RDC looks something like a proper train and the CRC has got to have an award for ugly. There are 100+ Budd cars sitting at a rebuilder in Canada and another group that can be contracted to FarmRail in Oklahoma. You get a "NEW" car using the old Budd frame and side pannels. New engine, transmissions, ac.-heat, onboard power etc. Complete rebuild for anywhere from a 1/2 million per, to 2 Million per copy. The CRC is now at 4.5 mil per car. OUCH!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Budd_RDC-2_B&O_2.jpg/800px-Budd_RDC-2_B&O_2.jpg)
This is why I encouraged our group of COMMUTER RAIL PLANNERS to look long and hard at the return of the Budd RDC, good for another 25 years. On the combine baggage/passenger model, the new rebuilds add windows and use the old baggage or mail door for ADA lifts. Solid as ROCK.
OCKLAWAHA
I think we're on board with the Budd. Its cheaper and more attractive the Colorado DMU.
Maybe Syracuse wants to sell theirs?
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-2875-armory_square.jpg)
QuoteToday, rusty cars sit unused at Carousel Station. Carousel Station was built for $500,000. Since OnTrack's demise, it has been discovered that NYS&W used the annual OnTrack subsidies to enhance their freight lines, instead of enhancing the passenger line.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/643/
I drove past the station, while in Syracuse last week. They aren't there anymore, but the overgrown station platforms are.
They are for sale, or were in the last month, in storage and perfect condition.
Ocklawaha
What's the asking price?
How ADA are they?
QuoteM7 NYSW RDC car. 2 GM 6-110 “slant 6†diesel engines with Allison torque converters and Spicer drive shafts. Four (4) wheel roller bearing with disc brakes, Nos. 2 & 3 axles equipped with gear boxes
Location: Railcars in Syracuse and Utica, New York
Price: 123,300
Reference #4081
M-5 Below is the one in your photo
QuoteM5 NYSW RDC car. 2 GM 6-110 “slant 6†diesel engines with Allison torque converters and Spicer drive shafts. Four (4) wheel roller bearing with disc brakes, Nos. 2 & 3 axles equipped with gear boxes
Location: Railcars in Syracuse and Utica, New York
Price: 111,000
Reference #4079
QuoteM6 NYSW RDC car. 2 GM 6-110 “slant 6†diesel engines with Allison torque converters and Spicer drive shafts. Four (4) wheel roller bearing with disc brakes, Nos. 2 & 3 axles equipped with gear boxes
Location: Railcars in Syracuse and Utica, New York
Price: 27.800
Reference #4080
QuoteM8 NYSW RDC car. 2 GM 6-110 “slant 6†diesel engines with Allison torque converters and Spicer drive shafts. Four (4) wheel roller bearing with disc brakes, Nos. 2 & 3 axles equipped with gear boxes
Location: Railcars in Syracuse and Utica, New York
Price: 27,800
Reference #4082
OCKLAWAHA
I have the photos too...
How does this compare with the price of articulated buses?
QuoteCleveland bought 21 articulated buses for its Euclid Corridor Transportation Project. Its goal is to improve transit service and support increased development along Euclid Avenue with a quiet, environmentally friendly vehicle operating in the corridor between Public Square, with a transition at University Circle, then continuing into east Cleveland, according to information from the project.
"The corridor is ready to open up in October," said Marty Stutz, COTA vice president of marketing and corporate communications. "These have twice the capacity, and they are comfortable."
Passenger capacity on an articulated bus is about 120, sitting and standing, Liggett said, and capacity on a standard 40-foot bus in the COTA fleet is about 60.
The cost of an articulated bus ranges from $800,000 to $900,000, Stutz said. "A 40-foot diesel is in the range of $450,000 to $500,000."
The feedback about the articulated bus received so far from COTA officials and employees has been favorable, and riders and other interested parties will have a chance to check it out for themselves when the bus is on display at the Ohio State Fair from July 30 through Aug. 10.
OCKLAWAHA
This gives a good side by side with the above bus. Keep in mind the RDC's that we are talking about, are already rebuilt, and need cosmetic work. So our price may be about the same per unit as the Articulated bus, the 50 year old rebuilt rail cars will still have a life span double that of the brand new buses.
Note that on page 6 of the new JTA "Making Moves" magazine, they discuss Commuter rail and the ONLY photos shown are a Dallas LRT and an RDC train! The overall tone is the same soft shoe we've seen in the meetings, labeling most of us in the task force, "railroad aficionados and pro urban development advocates." Not a professional amoung us? huh?
FYI, the same magazine on page 8, in a much more positive article, Scott Clem spills the goods on the Skyway plans for Kings Avenue Station and Atlantic in San Marco! (been saying it for years Scott!) Just get the damn thing OVER the tracks and West of the FEC in San Marco.
QuoteTrinity Railway Express Rail Diesel Cars (RDC)
DART purchased 13 RDCs from VIA Rail Canada in 1993. The Budd Company in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania originally built the RDCs in the 1950’s. They were used by VIA Rail throughout Canada in intercity service.
The RDCs were completely stripped down to their stainless steel shell and remanufactured by GEC Alsthom Transport, Inc. at their Montreal facility. All new interiors were provided, including new seats, floors, ceilings, walls, windows, and lighting.
The makeover took 20 months. Upon completion, the RDCs were shipped as part of a freight train to Dallas.
Once the RDCs arrived in Dallas, each car had its interior installation completed including major components mounted, wired and plumbed, and then were tested for 3-5 days prior to being put into service.
Each RDC has 92 passenger seats plus 4 mobility impaired areas. Wheelchair access is through a manually deployed bridgeplate from the side doors to a "high block" on the station platform. Each car is 85 feet long, 10 feet wide, and 14 feet high. Empty, each car weights 135,000 pounds. Its design speed is 85 mph, but travels at a maximum speed of 60 mph while in service. Each car has 2 doors on each side.
The RDCs are powered by 2 diesel engines, each generating 300 horsepower. Each car has dual cabs to allow bi-directional operation just like DART's light rail vehicles (LRV).
Rail Diesel Car Technical Specifications
Vehicle Type:Dual-cab, diesel propulsion rail vehicle
Vehicle Height:14 feet, 8 inches
Vehicle Width:10 feet
Vehicle Length:85 feet
Vehicle Weight:135,000 pounds each
Passenger Capacity:96 seated
Travel Speed:Top operating speed: 79 mph. Average speed: 45 mph
Body:Stainless steel
Interior:Redesigned and refurbished to accommodate longer distance commuting.
Deluxe high-back seating with armrests; luggage racks; non-skid rubber flooring
Cooling/Heating:Heating, ventilation, and air-conditioning system
Special Features:Accessible/accommodations for four wheelchairs per vehicle
Vehicle Cost:$1.8 million each (cost includes engineering, shipment, etc.)
OCKLAWAHA
Where do you get a copy of this Making Moves thing? I'm sure its full of tasty quotes "railroad aficionados and pro urban development advocates" could eat a transit professional alive with, if needed.
On the left hand desk inside the door at JTA. Maybe some others around town, but that's all I know. Yeah, it's real delicate on everything. I was kind of shocked that Scott was so forthright in the SKYWAY SOUTH even though the piece was more about the hotel and garage.
OCKLAWAHA
Here is a link to the Summer 2008 Making Moves brochure.
http://www.jtafla.com/news/pdf/MAKING%20MOVES%20SPRING%202008.pdf
After reading it, its not negative. Ock's response had me hyped for a minute. Anyway, I just want them to not touch that BJP money until the current studies are complete and an integrated mass transit plan showing rail, BRT, regular buses and whatever, is in place.
Look. I understand where you''re coming from now, but where are Americans with disabilitiels goinging to fit in on these trains?
QuoteAfter reading it, its not negative. Ock's response had me hyped for a minute. Anyway, I just want them to not touch that BJP money until the current studies are complete and an integrated mass transit plan showing rail, BRT, regular buses and whatever, is in place.
Sorry you got hyped over it, I thought I indicated it was the same old soft shoe review. Nothing + nothing =
I think it was sent out so the public would hear the same slow-go we've all gotten used to.
RDC-ADA? Gatorback... Man that side door is huge, you can also rebuild the steps for lifts, They have enough room to lift a small pick-uip truck inside. Once inside, they don't have the 3 level floors of the CRC cars either.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: thelakelander on July 30, 2008, 11:17:34 PM
After reading it, its not negative. Ock's response had me hyped for a minute. Anyway, I just want them to not touch that BJP money until the current studies are complete and an integrated mass transit plan showing rail, BRT, regular buses and whatever, is in place.
I want the BJP money used right away for The CSX A line commuter rail. I doubt the money is still entirely available and I am not getting any younger.
Based on the the current status of the RDC's being scrapped, looks like Jacksonville has missed this train.....
Industrial Rail is dead but keep in mind this does NOT represent 100% of the RDS's out there.