Downtown Food Truck Park Opening This Week
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Food-Trucks/i-jb9Gqn6/0/L/bmc2-L.jpg)
Downtown’s first food truck court opens on Thursday Feb 23rd at 11:00AM.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2017-feb-downtown-food-truck-park-opening-this-week
): Wish I was in town for this, please take lots of pics, thanks
Please come out and check us tomorrow!
Or Friday, Monday, etc., etc.
We had a big opening day!
Drop by today for Mr. Potato Spread, Tikis, Dagwood's and Full of
Crepe!
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on February 21, 2017, 06:21:24 PM
): Wish I was in town for this, please take lots of pics, thanks
I have a few pics on my phone. I'll upload them in a few minutes.
Quote from: lowlyplanner on February 24, 2017, 10:19:53 AM
We had a big opening day!
Drop by today for Mr. Potato Spread, Tikis, Dagwood's and Full of
Crepe!
Some of the name puns are getting out of control. Sad I missed the Butt Hut yesterday, their food is great.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/The-Court-Urban-Food-Park/i-NJgLmHf/0/L/20170223_121047-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/The-Court-Urban-Food-Park/i-Z252zCg/0/L/IMG_40091-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/The-Court-Urban-Food-Park/i-4fjLQVh/0/L/20170223_121053-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/The-Court-Urban-Food-Park/i-rnCZQ76/0/L/20170223_120838-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/The-Court-Urban-Food-Park/i-fPLjJs7/0/L/20170223_124940-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/The-Court-Urban-Food-Park/i-jzDhc6N/0/L/IMG_40071-L.jpg)
No one sees this as a cop-out of the ground level retail that was originally supposed to occupy this garage in the first place?
Quote from: BenderRodriguez on February 24, 2017, 02:00:27 PM
No one sees this as a cop out of the ground-level retail that was originally supposed to occupy this garage in the first place?
It's exactly what I was thinking actually!
It is of sorts, but I still think it's a good thing. Look, the downtown restaurant is viewed as strong Mon-Fri for lunch. It's not viewed as strong for dinner.
If the SunTrust building people thought it built retail it would fill with restaurants, they would have built it already - they aren't afraid to make money. Their view is that they don't think the retail would be filled.
The T-U said that the trucks pay $35/day to lease their spots. Let's assume all four spots are leased for each working day in a month, and nothing else. That would be $3,220/month ($35*4 trucks*23 weekdays in a month). I have no idea if Jack and Mike are taking a cut (good for them if they are but not my business to know), but let's assume they aren't and the lease with the building owner is $3,220. You couldn't build that much retail and expect to cover your construction note for $3,220.
I'm going to assume that if you built a building on the food truck area alone (And the associated seating area) that it's about 3,500 SqFt of space. Assuming a price/SqFt of $125, that would cost around $450,000 to build. I could dive further into the math, but evidently the SunTrust building owners don't think they can make it back.
I think this is a great way to test the waters, and give people the variety that a standalone restaurant can't do. If those spaces are filled every day, lunch and dinner (which they won't be today), then I'd be shocked if the SunTrust people don't build the retail.
Thanks for the pics
Quote from: Steve on February 24, 2017, 02:40:26 PM
I'm going to assume that if you built a building on the food truck area alone (And the associated seating area) that it's about 3,500 SqFt of space. Assuming a price/SqFt of $125, that would cost around $450,000 to build. I could dive further into the math, but evidently the SunTrust building owners don't think they can make it back.
Exactly why they should have been required to build it into the original design/construction...
$125 per square foot would be a retail sales price. GC's should be able to build out something functional for way less. Say. $75 per square foot.
Quote from: Steve on February 24, 2017, 02:40:26 PM
Look, the downtown restaurant is viewed as strong Mon-Fri for lunch. It's not viewed as strong for dinner.
To this point, I'm curious what the reaction to the new food court has been from the brick and mortars downtown who must contend with the above while shouldering the much higher overhead associated with occupying a fixed space. The great food truck vs. brick and mortar debate is so three years ago, and I think most reasonable people would agree that food trucks are a net positive for the community and for downtown vibrancy, but in this particular case, I do have some empathy for the restaurant owners taking a chance on downtown Jacksonville who must now compete daily with four new mini-restaurants, operating in an absolutely prime location, with none of the associated costs or risks they face.
Quote from: BenderRodriguez on February 24, 2017, 02:00:27 PM
No one sees this as a cop-out of the ground level retail that was originally supposed to occupy this garage in the first place?
No, I don't see it as a cop out. The deal to add retail died years ago, when the entity that agreed to do it, flipped the property before its completion. There's nothing on the books holding the current owner to do anything with this site. The fact that two forum members had the foresight to at least approach the new owner with a way to activate the sapce is a blessing. Also, from what I understand, there's more in the works here, than just a couple of food trucks. This block has the potential to become the interative space that Hemming has struggled to achieve, depsite the millions poured into it. I'm exciting to see what the future holds.
Quote from: KenFSU on February 25, 2017, 09:16:05 PM
Quote from: Steve on February 24, 2017, 02:40:26 PM
Look, the downtown restaurant is viewed as strong Mon-Fri for lunch. It's not viewed as strong for dinner.
To this point, I'm curious what the reaction to the new food court has been from the brick and mortars downtown who must contend with the above while shouldering the much higher overhead associated with occupying a fixed space. The great food truck vs. brick and mortar debate is so three years ago, and I think most reasonable people would agree that food trucks are a net positive for the community and for downtown vibrancy, but in this particular case, I do have some empathy for the restaurant owners taking a chance on downtown Jacksonville who must now compete daily with four new mini-restaurants, operating in an absolutely prime location, with none of the associated costs or risks they face.
I don't have any empathy. Successful trucks tend to grow into brick and mortars. The more trucks, placemaking and activation of our dead underutilized spaces, the better chance that our long empty retail storefronts get filled. As for this particular site, if someone believes retail will work here
(the trucks only take up half the block), I'm sure the new Suntrust owner would be open to sitting down and possibly ironing out a deal to allow them to build. By the same token, I'm sure the DIA would be willing to consider infill by removing the dead end street between the garage and Independent Drive, if someone was willing to fund a viable proposal.
Quote from: KenFSU on February 25, 2017, 09:16:05 PM
Quote from: Steve on February 24, 2017, 02:40:26 PM
Look, the downtown restaurant is viewed as strong Mon-Fri for lunch. It's not viewed as strong for dinner.
To this point, I'm curious what the reaction to the new food court has been from the brick and mortars downtown who must contend with the above while shouldering the much higher overhead associated with occupying a fixed space. The great food truck vs. brick and mortar debate is so three years ago, and I think most reasonable people would agree that food trucks are a net positive for the community and for downtown vibrancy, but in this particular case, I do have some empathy for the restaurant owners taking a chance on downtown Jacksonville who must now compete daily with four new mini-restaurants, operating in an absolutely prime location, with none of the associated costs or risks they face.
Yeah, I was curious if the Landing has seen any impact given that those food trucks are practically in their face. Got to give it more time and I hope it can work out so no business would go under unable to compete, but I'm glad the indications are the project is an early success.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 25, 2017, 11:04:40 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on February 25, 2017, 09:16:05 PM
Quote from: Steve on February 24, 2017, 02:40:26 PM
Look, the downtown restaurant is viewed as strong Mon-Fri for lunch. It's not viewed as strong for dinner.
To this point, I'm curious what the reaction to the new food court has been from the brick and mortars downtown who must contend with the above while shouldering the much higher overhead associated with occupying a fixed space. The great food truck vs. brick and mortar debate is so three years ago, and I think most reasonable people would agree that food trucks are a net positive for the community and for downtown vibrancy, but in this particular case, I do have some empathy for the restaurant owners taking a chance on downtown Jacksonville who must now compete daily with four new mini-restaurants, operating in an absolutely prime location, with none of the associated costs or risks they face.
I don't have any empathy. Successful trucks tend to grow into brick and mortars. The more trucks, placemaking and activation of our dead underutilized spaces, the better chance that our long empty retail storefronts get filled. As for this particular site, if someone believes retail will work here (the trucks only take up half the block), I'm sure the new Suntrust owner would be open to sitting down and possibly ironing out a deal to allow them to build. By the same token, I'm sure the DIA would be willing to consider infill by removing the dead end street between the garage and Independent Drive, if someone was willing to fund a viable proposal.
Aren't you basically using the same argument you use FOR fixed rail transportation as an excuse AGAINST holding a developer to their word? Without the storefronts already there, the expense and upfront costs for a retailer is completely out of the question. Why would SunTrust have any incentive to gamble on developing now?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the nutshell version:
Company A - We want to build a garage.
Review Board- Sure, but you have to add in retail at street level.
C A - Eh, too expensive. Tell you what, we'll add retail if this building hits this % of occupancy.
RB - Oh sure. But we're going to hold you to that.
~substantial completion nears, occupancy % has been achieved
C A - We're selling the garage to Company B. They take on the building, we take the money we were approved for and oh yeah we're not transferring that little deal about the retail. Y'all are gonna have to get that worked out between you guys. Later.
RB - OK, Company B, what about the retail?
C B - Eh, too expensive. That deal was with C A, we're just here to run a garage.
COJ Residents - Yay. Food trucks. ::)
This is one of the grandest fuckups in the recent history of fuckups. So, we get a parking garage downtown....errrrr ANOTHER parking garage downtown. That doesn't serve the Landing, which needs a parking garage BTW, we cowtowed on making the developer provide street-level retail, and we end up with 2 acres of pavement along Hogan Street which, due to the lack of buildings on the other sides of the street, another asphalt desert near the middle of the core.
But, "yay food trucks".... give me a fucking break.
QuoteWhy would SunTrust have any incentive to gamble on developing now?
The owner has no obligation to build retail at that site. How exactly are you going to force them to do so?
QuoteCorrect me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the nutshell version:
Company A - We want to build a garage.
Review Board- Sure, but you have to add in retail at street level.
C A - Eh, too expensive. Tell you what, we'll add retail if this building hits this % of occupancy.
RB - Oh sure. But we're going to hold you to that.
~substantial completion nears, occupancy % has been achieved
C A - We're selling the garage to Company B. They take on the building, we take the money we were approved for and oh yeah we're not transferring that little deal about the retail. Y'all are gonna have to get that worked out between you guys. Later.
RB - OK, Company B, what about the retail?
C B - Eh, too expensive. That deal was with C A, we're just here to run a garage.
COJ Residents - Yay. Food trucks.
Sort of. Where you're off is that nothing in the deal to sell to C B tied them to the C A agreement. That's not a C B problem. It's a fuck up from the deal JEDC put together with C A.
QuoteThis is one of the grandest fuckups in the recent history of fuckups. So, we get a parking garage downtown....errrrr ANOTHER parking garage downtown. That doesn't serve the Landing, which needs a parking garage BTW, we cowtowed on making the developer provide street-level retail, and we end up with 2 acres of pavement along Hogan Street which, due to the lack of buildings on the other sides of the street, another asphalt desert near the middle of the core.
No argument here but the current product has nothing to do with any of the fuck ups mentioned above. They'd still exist even without it.
So, going back to my position, the owner of Suntrust has no obligation to spend money building retail just because a few downtown advocates want it. However, if someone else felt something was viable and was willing to financially back an investment, there's nothing stopping them from doing so. This is essentially what's taking place now. The Suntrust owner didn't propose the food truck park or pay for it. They were approached by an independent party and a deal was created between the two. So, when the day arrives that retail or whatever becomes viable, there's still an opportunity some sort of infill can take place. Just don't get your hopes up high that it will be C B paying for it.
Quote
QuoteWhy would SunTrust have any incentive to gamble on developing now?
The owner has no obligation to build retail at that site. How exactly are you going to force them to do so?
I'm not implying that anything should / can be enforced now. That ship has sailed. We agree here.
QuoteQuoteCorrect me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the nutshell version:
Company A - We want to build a garage.
Review Board- Sure, but you have to add in retail at street level.
C A - Eh, too expensive. Tell you what, we'll add retail if this building hits this % of occupancy.
RB - Oh sure. But we're going to hold you to that.
~substantial completion nears, occupancy % has been achieved
C A - We're selling the garage to Company B. They take on the building, we take the money we were approved for and oh yeah we're not transferring that little deal about the retail. Y'all are gonna have to get that worked out between you guys. Later.
RB - OK, Company B, what about the retail?
C B - Eh, too expensive. That deal was with C A, we're just here to run a garage.
COJ Residents - Yay. Food trucks.
Sort of. Where you're off is that nothing in the deal to sell to C B tied them to the C A agreement. That's not a C B problem. It's a fuck up from the deal JEDC put together with C A.
That's exactly what I said. Again, we're in complete agreement.
QuoteQuoteThis is one of the grandest fuckups in the recent history of fuckups. So, we get a parking garage downtown....errrrr ANOTHER parking garage downtown. That doesn't serve the Landing, which needs a parking garage BTW, we cowtowed on making the developer provide street-level retail, and we end up with 2 acres of pavement along Hogan Street which, due to the lack of buildings on the other sides of the street, another asphalt desert near the middle of the core.
No argument here but the current product has nothing to do with any of the fuck ups mentioned above. They'd still exist even without it.
So, going back to my position, the owner of Suntrust has no obligation to spend money building retail just because a few downtown advocates want it. However, if someone else felt something was viable and was willing to financially back an investment, there's nothing stopping them from doing so. This is essentially what's taking place now. The Suntrust owner didn't propose the food truck park or pay for it. They were approached by an independent party and a deal was created between the two. So, when the day arrives that retail or whatever becomes viable, there's still an opportunity some sort of infill can take place. Just don't get your hopes up high that it will be C B paying for it.
I have exactly ZERO hopes and expectations that anything will get developed here more than what we have. I applaud Mike and Jack for doing what they did to add some semblance of vibrancy to the area and make chicken salad out of a turd. I still can't wrap my head around how our 'review' boards (you mentioned JEDC, I wasn't sure who) allow such shitty development only for the sake of development. I mean, I know that someone's getting paid on the backend to make such an assinine decision, but who is it and for the love of baby Jesus and all that is holy, there's got to be more accountability somewhere along the line.
The day for retail in that area is gone. The upfront costs to build the storefronts, retrofit the bottom floor of the garage, etc. have been driving 3-5x the cost of what it would have taken to build them during the construction of the garage. The only business model that could make a profit at that location now would be a strip club. And not MonsVenus or anything remotely nice, due to overhead, but more like a FlashDancers2 - The Other Day Crew.
We're pretty much in agreement. The major difference is highlighted in red:
QuoteCorrect me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the nutshell version:
Company A - We want to build a garage.
Review Board- Sure, but you have to add in retail at street level.
C A - Eh, too expensive. Tell you what, we'll add retail if this building hits this % of occupancy.
RB - Oh sure. But we're going to hold you to that.
~substantial completion nears, occupancy % has been achieved
C A - We're selling the garage to Company B. They take on the building, we take the money we were approved for and oh yeah we're not transferring that little deal about the retail. Y'all are gonna have to get that worked out between you guys. Later.
RB - OK, Company B, what about the retail?
C B - Eh, too expensive. That deal was with C A, we're just here to run a garage.
COJ Residents - Yay. Food trucks.
The city never tried holding or tying the second company to the original company's agreement. So we really can't fault the current owner, IMO. Things went off track well before them.
From what I remember back in those days, the DDRB and JEDC would have let C A build the garage up to the street with no retail. Downtown advocates, many of them here, worked to get the compromise, which resulted in the 50' setback.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Development/Parador-Partners-Parking/i-76cw57v/0/L/DDRB-Meeting-Packet-June-2012_Page_20-L.jpg)
Original site plan
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-jun-retail-less-parking-garage-proposed-for-downtown
A suggested compromise sketch I put together as a response article on MJ:
Quote from: thelakelander on June 13, 2012, 10:43:40 PM
Here's my suggested alternative, which I think in the long run would play out better than their current layout, even with retail.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Parador-Partners-Parking/i-MhNwFnK/0/L/Parador-Alternative-L.jpg)
1. Shift the garage to the middle of the site. They'll have to lose their extra surface parking lot and internal access drive but that's overkill on an urban site anyway. Short term bank parking can be accommodated in the parking garage, just like it is in other cities with them (Ex. downtown Lakeland's Suntrust has short term parking within it's garage).
2. Shifting the garage to the middle of the site, creates significant opportunity for a variety of infill uses (hotel, retail, office, market rate multifamily, etc.) that could possibly cover up the entire garage from public view, while adding ground level life on Bay, Hogan and Independent. Given the $3.5 million contribution, they should donate the extra land to the city so that a market rate RFP could be possibly developed.
3. Not only should Parador be more responsible for site planning here but also the city. There are a lot of things that could be done to make Sister Cities Plaza an activity zone instead of a forgotten pass through. That could include also using a portion of the city owned property for infill use.
This is basically the Greenville garage concept:
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4194-p1070173.JPG)
(http://www.greenvilledailyphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/DSC01953-001.jpg)
If it isn't something like this, I think it should include ground floor retail and be built strong enough to support a future building on top of it or not be approved at all. In either case, as far as the look of the facade goes, I could really care less. The important issue is how whatever goes in here integrates and activates the surrounding area at ground level. That means more than a slick decorated facade or landscaping theme.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Development/Parador-Partners-Parking/i-fNCS6rQ/0/L/Parador-11-L.jpg)
The final revised site plan (what exists today)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Development/Parador-Partners-Parking/i-5GQbWR5/0/L/Parador-12-L.jpg)
Revised site plan with future infill development surrounding it
I've been in this industry long enough now to know that even though the JEDC botched the garage retail commitment with Parador, that by getting the garage construction itself modified, you'll always have an opportunity for future surrounding infill, when the numbers work from a market rate perspective. In fact, this food truck court could be a short term activation solution (tactical urbanism) that ultimately leads to permanent infill. Also, another good thing about getting that garage design modified, is that future infill isn't dependent on reconstructing that garage. The market will also ultimately determine if that future infill is single floor retail, apartments, a hotel or something else.
Isn't the owner contractually obligated to put retail in if the SunTrust Building reaches 2/3 capacity?
Thanks Ennis.
That explanation of the set-back reminded me of how craptastic this project was on origination. Good God
And I realize I'm crying over spilled milk now, but it wasn't until I saw the Food Truck Park idea that it really reminded me again in what a mess this was.
Our city seems to be playing checkers while everyone else is playing chess. And it takes people with vision and drive to clean up after the fact. it'a a great short-term fix, but we really need to long-term visions.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 27, 2017, 10:02:27 AM
We're pretty much in agreement. The major difference is highlighted in red:
QuoteCorrect me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the nutshell version:
Company A - We want to build a garage.
Review Board- Sure, but you have to add in retail at street level.
C A - Eh, too expensive. Tell you what, we'll add retail if this building hits this % of occupancy.
RB - Oh sure. But we're going to hold you to that.
~substantial completion nears, occupancy % has been achieved
C A - We're selling the garage to Company B. They take on the building, we take the money we were approved for and oh yeah we're not transferring that little deal about the retail. Y'all are gonna have to get that worked out between you guys. Later.
RB - OK, Company B, what about the retail?
C B - Eh, too expensive. That deal was with C A, we're just here to run a garage.
COJ Residents - Yay. Food trucks.
The city never tried holding or tying the second company to the original company's agreement. So we really can't fault the current owner, IMO. Things went off track well before them.
From what I remember back in those days, the DDRB and JEDC would have let C A build the garage up to the street with no retail. Downtown advocates, many of them here, worked to get the compromise, which resulted in the 50' setback.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Development/Parador-Partners-Parking/i-76cw57v/0/L/DDRB-Meeting-Packet-June-2012_Page_20-L.jpg)
Original site plan
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-jun-retail-less-parking-garage-proposed-for-downtown
A suggested compromise sketch I put together as a response article on MJ:
Quote from: thelakelander on June 13, 2012, 10:43:40 PM
Here's my suggested alternative, which I think in the long run would play out better than their current layout, even with retail.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Parador-Partners-Parking/i-MhNwFnK/0/L/Parador-Alternative-L.jpg)
1. Shift the garage to the middle of the site. They'll have to lose their extra surface parking lot and internal access drive but that's overkill on an urban site anyway. Short term bank parking can be accommodated in the parking garage, just like it is in other cities with them (Ex. downtown Lakeland's Suntrust has short term parking within it's garage).
2. Shifting the garage to the middle of the site, creates significant opportunity for a variety of infill uses (hotel, retail, office, market rate multifamily, etc.) that could possibly cover up the entire garage from public view, while adding ground level life on Bay, Hogan and Independent. Given the $3.5 million contribution, they should donate the extra land to the city so that a market rate RFP could be possibly developed.
3. Not only should Parador be more responsible for site planning here but also the city. There are a lot of things that could be done to make Sister Cities Plaza an activity zone instead of a forgotten pass through. That could include also using a portion of the city owned property for infill use.
This is basically the Greenville garage concept:
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4194-p1070173.JPG)
(http://www.greenvilledailyphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/DSC01953-001.jpg)
If it isn't something like this, I think it should include ground floor retail and be built strong enough to support a future building on top of it or not be approved at all. In either case, as far as the look of the facade goes, I could really care less. The important issue is how whatever goes in here integrates and activates the surrounding area at ground level. That means more than a slick decorated facade or landscaping theme.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Development/Parador-Partners-Parking/i-fNCS6rQ/0/L/Parador-11-L.jpg)
The final revised site plan (what exists today)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Development/Parador-Partners-Parking/i-5GQbWR5/0/L/Parador-12-L.jpg)
Revised site plan with future infill development surrounding it
I've been in this industry long enough now to know that even though the JEDC botched the garage retail commitment with Parador, that by getting the garage construction itself modified, you'll always have an opportunity for future surrounding infill, when the numbers work from a market rate perspective. In fact, this food truck court could be a short term activation solution (tactical urbanism) that ultimately leads to permanent infill. Also, another good thing about getting that garage design modified, is that future infill isn't dependent on reconstructing that garage. The market will also ultimately determine if that future infill is single floor retail, apartments, a hotel or something else.
This was one of the worst deals ever put together Downtown. Every level dropped the ball when putting it together, and we're still feeling the effects. However, you are right, it's better that we got them to include the setback than not, as there's at least a small chance we can get something built there in the future. Without the setback, it could never happen as long as the garage is there.
QuoteWhy two Downtown leaders pushed for a permanent home for food trucks
Two Downtown thought leaders have teamed together to bring a permanent food truck fixture to Downtown, using an underutilized piece of property as the springboard for the new urban food park.
The Court is the brainchild of Mike Field and Jack Shad, who started kicking around an idea a year ago for a site where multiple food trucks could park and serve customers. About six months ago, the two decided to move forward on that idea, Shad said, and three months ago it took off when they approached Main Street Partners to use the large sidewalk space at the SunTrust parking garage.
Full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2017/02/23/why-two-downtown-leaders-pushed-for-a-permanent.html
I think its a great idea, not enough of those float out of downtown leadership.
We're excited to be here, and happy to activate this space.
Today we've got Happy Grilled Cheese, Best Burgers, Streety Pie's and Le Petit Cheri cupcake truck.
We definitely have plans to expand and make a destination that people will come into downtown for at night and on the weekend.
We've got an amazing lineup today, on the first beautiful day this week.
Fusion Food Truck, Mama's Food, Cely's Famous Foods (direct from RAM), Tikiz deserts and as a special guest the Bubba Burgers truck.
Today is the day to come down and check us out!
Some of the downtown restaurant owners aren't thrilled about this:
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2017/03/21/hogan-food-truck-court-final-straw-for-restaurant.html
I don't have much sympathy for them if they aren't able to compete with four rotating food trucks who have limited seating and few menu options. I was shocked to read that, according to the article, there are 90 restaurants in DVI's area.
Thats right. Brick and mortar shops are long term investors in their locale. They don't pack up and go with the wind.
Is the rental revenue from renting out space to food trucks going into city coffers?
Concerning that JBJ article, wasn't that the same argument made by old established lunch places when the Jacksonville Landing opened in 1987? If I recalled a lot of the old lunch standbys survived that, didn't they?
And if these struggling spots are bitching now, what would they say if some visionary had the balls to convert the Landing into the new Food Court concept taking over urban areas? Imagine a dozen well known suburban restaurants setting up make-shift low overhead kitchens and booths importing favorites from their mother locations in one centralized location complete with seating and A/C? You'd think they'd faint or shit themselves...
...or they can put big boy pants on, ride out the hype, and keep providing good consistent service. A new thing is a new thing but hopefully loyalty can be rewarded if they just hold on.
Yeah, lots of BS in the article. I feel for the Pita Pit guy but to be honest, I work downtown and haven't been in there since its grand opening. The one time I went, it wasn't my cup of tea. So four trucks have nothing to do with this DT consumer's choice not to return. Also, I eat out for lunch most days. Typically, I skip the sandwich shops for places like Burrito Gallery, De Real Ting, etc., along with a food truck or two each week. If I want a regular sandwich, I'd save the money and pack my own lunch. If I do settle for a sandwich (which is rare), I go super cheap by picking up a Subway foot long to take back to my desk or settle for the dude selling two hot dogs, chips and a drink, near the courthouse for $3 bucks.
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on March 21, 2017, 05:33:00 PM
Concerning that JBJ article, wasn't that the same argument made by old established lunch places when the Jacksonville Landing opened in 1987? If I recalled a lot of the old lunch standbys survived that, didn't they?
And if these struggling spots are bitching now, what would they say if some visionary had the balls to convert the Landing into the new Food Court concept taking over urban areas? Imagine a dozen well known suburban restaurants setting up make-shift low overhead kitchens and booths importing favorites from their mother locations in one centralized location complete with seating and A/C? You'd think they'd faint or shit themselves...
...or they can put big boy pants on, ride out the hype, and keep providing good consistent service. A new thing is a new thing but hopefully loyalty can be rewarded if they just hold on.
Yeah, if a food hall popped up, they'd go crazy.
Places like Desert Rider are failing because they're terrible, not because people are getting lunch at food trucks. Downtown lunch crowds have kept these places afloat for so long due to proximity and time restraints. It's pretty humorous to think that these owners feel like they're owed business just because they've had a stranglehold on diners for years. "We've been serving overpriced, disgusting meals for years. How dare you abandon us for better food!"
Quote from: SuzySpringfield on March 22, 2017, 10:09:04 AM
Places like Desert Rider are failing because they're terrible, not because people are getting lunch at food trucks. Downtown lunch crowds have kept these places afloat for so long due to proximity and time restraints. It's pretty humorous to think that these owners feel like they're owed business just because they've had a stranglehold on diners for years. "We've been serving overpriced, disgusting meals for years. How dare you abandon us for better food!"
I agree. I worked in the Ed Ball building years ago and found my options very limited - especially later in the day. I spent way too many dollars having incredibly disappointing lunches/dinners at Quiznos.
Quote from: SuzySpringfield on March 22, 2017, 10:09:04 AM
Places like Desert Rider are failing because they're terrible, not because people are getting lunch at food trucks. Downtown lunch crowds have kept these places afloat for so long due to proximity and time restraints. It's pretty humorous to think that these owners feel like they're owed business just because they've had a stranglehold on diners for years. "We've been serving overpriced, disgusting meals for years. How dare you abandon us for better food!"
I work about 1/2 block from Desert Rider. I have never been inside. It looks disgusting, so I don't eat there. I hit the Brick Coffeehouse regularly for breakfast. I enjoy Zodiac for lunch. The people are great and the food is good. I also will go to BG, Indochine, (Pho when it was open), Nature's Table occasionally. Trents in the BBT building is decent. I also enjoy the food trucks as well. Food trucks are just another option.
Quote from: exnewsman on March 22, 2017, 11:05:00 AM
Quote from: SuzySpringfield on March 22, 2017, 10:09:04 AM
Places like Desert Rider are failing because they're terrible, not because people are getting lunch at food trucks. Downtown lunch crowds have kept these places afloat for so long due to proximity and time restraints. It's pretty humorous to think that these owners feel like they're owed business just because they've had a stranglehold on diners for years. "We've been serving overpriced, disgusting meals for years. How dare you abandon us for better food!"
I work about 1/2 block from Desert Rider. I have never been inside. It looks disgusting, so I don't eat there. I hit the Brick Coffeehouse regularly for breakfast. I enjoy Zodiac for lunch. The people are great and the food is good. I also will go to BG, Indochine, (Pho when it was open), Nature's Table occasionally. Trents in the BBT building is decent. I also enjoy the food trucks as well. Food trucks are just another option.
I don't mean to infer that all places downtown that may be feeling the squeeze from food trucks are terrible. I love BG, Indochine (although I end up at the San Marco one more often), Chamblins, Oilo, etc, but the people featured in the article own restaurants that could implode tomorrow and no one would ever notice. If you've had the same menu of greasy cafeteria food for 40 years, you should and will be edged out. All I see is the potential for new food options in their place.
I'm glad that the response to the use of the garage setbacks for food trucks has been (mostly) positive. Now I'm curious about the garage the city will construct for when the shovels start turning for Laura Street Trio. I love the pictures of the garage in Greenville, SC using the setbacks, but could the city do the same for part of the new garage? Would the LST developers be cool with that in exchange for a taller garage? If that and the Barnett are successful could the city end up selling the setback parcel to the LST developers for their own use? I know this is jumping the gun a bit but I hope this possibility gets consideration.
The problem with downtown restaurants is their business model relies 100% on lunch M-F. They have 15 hours a week to make all their money - but they lease their space for 168 hours a week. That isn't a viable ratio and is why average food is so expensive. A food truck blows this business model up. The solution isn't to ban businesses with a viable and profitable business model, it is to increase the time diversity downtown by bringing in hotels and residential. The City needs to get on the ball with this.
My wife and I enjoyed the Indian food truck's offerings last week. There don't seem to be many Indian restaurants in the Historic District.
I believe it is called "FUSION FOOD TRUCK."
Highly recommend.
Quote from: MusicMan on April 07, 2017, 09:47:55 AM
My wife and I enjoyed the Indian food truck's offerings last week. There don't seem to be many Indian restaurants in the Historic District.
I believe it is called "FUSION FOOD TRUCK."
Highly recommend.
Fusion is so great. Wish they would open a brick and mortar in the core (Murray Hill)
Quote from: johnnyliar on April 07, 2017, 11:03:40 AM
Quote from: MusicMan on April 07, 2017, 09:47:55 AM
My wife and I enjoyed the Indian food truck's offerings last week. There don't seem to be many Indian restaurants in the Historic District.
I believe it is called "FUSION FOOD TRUCK."
Highly recommend.
Fusion is so great. Wish they would open a brick and mortar in the core (Murray Hill)
Yes! I tried to recruit her a year and a half ago but she said they were looking in the urban core. I guess I should reach back out and see if anything has changed.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on April 07, 2017, 11:39:50 AM
Yes! I tried to recruit her a year and a half ago but she said they were looking in the urban core. I guess I should reach back out and see if anything has changed.
Oh my. Please do.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on April 07, 2017, 11:39:50 AM
Quote from: johnnyliar on April 07, 2017, 11:03:40 AM
Quote from: MusicMan on April 07, 2017, 09:47:55 AM
My wife and I enjoyed the Indian food truck's offerings last week. There don't seem to be many Indian restaurants in the Historic District.
I believe it is called "FUSION FOOD TRUCK."
Highly recommend.
Fusion is so great. Wish they would open a brick and mortar in the core (Murray Hill)
Yes! I tried to recruit her a year and a half ago but she said they were looking in the urban core. I guess I should reach back out and see if anything has changed.
Lots of cheap commercial space in Springfield! ;)
I asked her about brick and mortar and she said "NO". "Too much trouble. The truck is much easier."
Ate there again yesterday.
Yeah unfortunately a good Indian restaurant has been severely lacking in the core for years. Im sure there are several post on here that mention it :)
The Court is open for dinner beginning tomorrow. Dinner service will run Thursday through Saturday from 5pm until 8pm.
Tomorrow (Thursday) Waugwauga Food Truck, Cuban Fire Grill and Wurstbusters will be serving on site.
Great, now all the downtown restaurants can be ever more mad.
Quote from: fieldafm on April 26, 2017, 09:54:43 AM
The Court is open for dinner beginning tomorrow. Dinner service will run Thursday through Saturday from 5pm until 8pm.
Tomorrow (Thursday) Waugwauga Food Truck, Cuban Fire Grill and Wurstbusters will be serving on site.
Mike you have done a great job with this. First you advocate for built in retail. Then when the city dropped the ball you picked it up and made something else out of it.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on April 26, 2017, 12:06:09 PM
Mike:
I dont know how much interest in this there is, but any chance of some universal, good-at-all-foodtrucks-at-the-courtyard gift card being available? I feel like that would be a nice gift for co-workers and such.
I agree that would be cool, but with roughly 60 small business owners that use maybe a dozen different kinds of Point of Sale systems... that's not something that is on our radar to tackle at this time. Getting dinner service working downtown is going to be enough of a challenge as is. That said, I really hope that dinner is well received. Downtown, while improved in recent years, lacks a critical mass of dinner options. To become a consistent evening dining destination, we really feel very strongly that there needs to be more places open with a unique product. Kazu Sushi Burrito is a perfect example... while dinner is still inconsistent, they definitely see (young) people that don't live or work downtown make the trip after 5pm to grab a sushi burrito (I myself eat dinner there
at least twice a week). With Bellwether opening soon joining places like Candy Apple (another great, unique space), Spliffs Gastropub, Kazu, Burrito Gallery, Indochine, Zodiac, Lana Thai, Fionn MacCools, etc... and now the food truck court and soon another new restaurant that is about to announce an opening downtown (more on that later), we are hopeful that we can contribute to helping establish that much needed critical mass.
QuoteMike you have done a great job with this. First you advocate for built in retail. Then when the city dropped the ball you picked it up and made something else out of it.
I really don't deserve any accolades. Quite a lot of people are responsible for the food truck court. My partner Jack Shad is on site more than I am and he is really the driving force behind The Court. You can read about some of the things Jack has/is working on here: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-mar-a-lot-of-opportunities (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-mar-a-lot-of-opportunities) , http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2016-jan-coming-soon-the-bridge (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2016-jan-coming-soon-the-bridge) and http://jacksonville.com/food-and-dining/news/metro/2017-03-31/mike-shad-buys-another-riverside-building-plans-renovate (http://jacksonville.com/food-and-dining/news/metro/2017-03-31/mike-shad-buys-another-riverside-building-plans-renovate)
Traci Jenks of Cushman Wakefield made a complicated leasing process involving a unique use with an out of town building owner (institutional investors are typically focused on credit tenants and leasing large chunks of Class A office spaces... and not necessarily some off-the-wall use), a very seamless process. LAZ Parking (who manages the parking garage) has also really supported The Court far above and beyond what we expected. The Jacksonville Landing has also helped us during special events. There are not quite 60 food trucks that sign up for various lunch (and now dinner) shifts (each with between two and four employees on board), and they all work hard to provide consistently good products that don't take an entire lunch shift to prepare- they've all definitely improved with speed of service and offering service with a smile since we opened in late February.
Things get done when everyone works together, and there are A LOT of people that work together to make The Court work. We are still evolving and improving day-by-day, but behind the scenes there are many, many moving parts (and A LOT of people)... and its pretty awesome to be a part of a large team where everyone is working towards the same positive goal.
That said, we hope you'll try us out tonight and going forward with dinner service Thursdays through Saturdays.
Just a reminder that the City Council's NCIS (Neighborhoods, Community Investments & Services) Committee will have a public meeting today at 4 pm in Council Chambers to discuss the concerns raised by some downtown brick and mortar restaurants about The Court (and food trucks in general).
If you have an opinion about this issue please consider coming by the meeting and expressing it.
You can also find the list of NCIS members here: http://www.coj.net/city-council/standing-committees/ncis (http://www.coj.net/city-council/standing-committees/ncis)
There's also a link to watch the meeting online.