http://jacksonville.com/news/2017-01-27/study-recommends-jea-demolish-rebuild-headquarters-57-million-64-million
QuoteThere are currently 758 employees, 530 parking spaces, and 337,600 square feet of space.
Requirements for a future building, according to the board presentation, include: being located downtown, accommodating 800 employees and parking spaces, about 220,000 square feet of space, full backup power, no parking garage under the building, state of the art emergency operations center, board room/auditorium for 300 people, parking for customers, and parking facility for JEA vehicles and equipment.
If the utility was able to demolish and rebuild at that site, the positives include building what is needed, the downtown location, access to public transportation, utilities in place, existing parking, proximity to City Hall, and ability to incorporate sustainability principles. Relocation of employees and demolition costs, along with the expense of rebuilding, are the concerns with that option.
The positives for renovating the existing tower include it being downtown, utilities already in place, existing parking, public transportation and "structural systems are in good shape." The concerns included "many unknown conditions," double relocation of employees, the need for significant upgrade to the mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems, the tower being too large, existing parking beneath the building creating a security risk, and inefficient floor plan.
The cons for building at what is now a JEA chilled water site included the public image of vacating a downtown building. The pros included designing "an appropriate corporate headquarters" and "build exactly what is needed."
It's interesting that they rather spend more money to tear the 19-story tower down and replace it with a smaller building (with more parking) on-site, as opposed to building new and selling the current building.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1157699877_z2BdP8N-L.jpg)
Where exactly is the site mentioned if they go the route of building new at site of Chill station? Is this one over by the arena?
I believe the chilled water site is behind the Duval County Courthouse, at Jefferson and Church.
Reminds of when their were proposals for the other JEA building.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-6845-jea_tower.jpg)
Edjax, I believe they have a chilling plant behind the new courthouse.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 27, 2017, 03:35:42 PM
I believe the chilled water site is behind the Duval County Courthouse, at Jefferson and Church.
Thanks. Yea I see that now on google maps. Was not sure from that the article if they went this route would they still demolish current site or be open to placing it for sale for development ? I noted one of the cons for this option was vacating a tower downtown. So read that as not demolishi it right a way at least and potentially selling for development.
We should 100% stand against them knocking down that building.
If I were Peter Rummel, I would offer JEA a free acre or two in Healthy Town. Getting a significant office tenant out of the gate would help him shorten the project's development timeline. It would save JEA from leasing space in the construction interim too, plus they could sell the old building for whatever it would bring.
That is from Rummel's perspective, not my personal preference.
Quote from: vicupstate on January 27, 2017, 04:16:13 PM
If I were Peter Rummel, I would offer JEA a free acre or two in Healthy Town. Getting a significant office tenant out of the gate would help him shorten the project's development timeline. It would save JEA from leasing space in the construction interim too, plus they could sell the old building for whatever it would bring.
That is from Rummel's perspective, not my personal preference.
That would ironic given that is an old JEA site to being with.
I agree with thelakelander. There is no logical reason JEA couldn't sell its property. Sell it to an entity that gives a crap about capital improvement. JEA is a quasigovernmental agency meant to serve a utilitarian purpose for the community. There is no reason a majority of its staff needs to be downtown. Build a giant facility at Imeson. Buy the old Concord College Buildings off of the Arlington Expressway. Occupy the hundreds of thousands of square feet of unoccupied office space in this city. Do something good! But whatever you do don't tear down the little bit of damn character this city even has to work with. Give that building to the private sector. The same reason the JEA Tower is falling apart is the same reason you shouldn't getting a brand new shinny one.
I wouldn't mind them building a new downtown structure that is tailor made to fit their needs and operations. I'd love to see something like that replace the dead chilled water block, along the JTA Flyer BRT line in LaVilla. Broad Street could use all the infill it could get and the image of the Northbank would improve with some more tower cranes in the sky.
However, yes, no way should they be tearing down a strucuturally fine building that size. Especially, since half of the negatives to JEA, like integrated parking, 530 garage parking spaces, etc. would not be negatives to most. It's a site specifically built and designed for big box retail and corporate office space, with frontage on Main Street and a block from Hemming. I'd like to see JEA go and that site's spaces be transformed back to accommodate and embrace the uses it was originally designed for.
I hear ya. I think when you look through the lenses of Downtown Vision Inc. and DIA of course adding jobs downtown is a good thing, and I'm with you, transforming a dead block would be amazing, especially one right next to where I live. I just think if you are taking the stand point of JEA you don't have a valid argument for maintaining operations downtown, not in this day and age.
As far as the building goes, its a gem! If it were in Miami it would be an icon. It's unfortunate that it is in the hands of an organization not structured in a way to appreciate it. A commercial client, say Deutsch Bank, would have a much higher regard for its appearance because it reflects more on the business itself. It wants to attract the best employees, the best customers, and emanate the most powerful image. JEA does not have parallel goals.
I recently read a portion of the submission to the National Park Service requesting Downtown Jacksonville be designated a historic district. It appears to have been approved in May. Contributing structures are from 1901 to 1965, JEA Tower included. I'm not sure to what degree these buildings are protected, but have you seen this come up in discussion?
Could the current building possibly be turned into residential apartments?
Quote from: JaGoaT on January 28, 2017, 04:29:15 PM
Could the current building possibly be turned into residential apartments?
I was wondering the same thing. Ideally it would be nice to have affordable apartments in that location, however the problem with affordable housing is that developers don't make a huge profit, so they usually need outside funding. Right now we don't even have the collective will to turn the Barnett Bank building or the Berkman II into apartments. I worry that once vacated, the JEA tower would be abandoned and become just another ignored building downtown.
Pictures of the current property, taken a few hours ago:
6-story, former Ivey's Department Store -- (currently JEA's customer service center)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Downtown-Jacksonville-January/i-zP9qfVd/0/L/DSCF3840-L.jpg)
Office tower
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Downtown-Jacksonville-January/i-jrnMGZG/0/L/20170128_134321-L.jpg)
A major JEA negative of the office tower is that it has a parking garage underneath it....
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Downtown-Jacksonville-January/i-kPML9Cv/0/L/20170128_134144-L.jpg)
A major JEA negative of the adjacent parking garage structure is that it doesn't have enough spaces for JEA employees
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Downtown-Jacksonville-January/i-b7gM8nB/0/L/DSCF3841-L.jpg)
It has enough for its original retail purpose though. When it was constructed, it included a Purcell's department store on the ground floor. While not an ideal layout for JEA's needs, a large retail floor plate would be beneficial for something like a Walgreens or Office Depot.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Downtown-Jacksonville-January/i-Zd5rV2s/0/L/DSCF3839-L.jpg)
There's also some space left over at the corner of Main and Church. JEA uses it as a surface parking lot. However, original development plans for this corner was for the addition of a 5-story office building. It would have included a 250-space underground parking garage, along with a drugstore and restaurant at street level.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Downtown-Jacksonville-January/i-wmhxRpH/0/L/20170128_134200-L.jpg)
I rather JEA move and add life to the chilled water block (photo below), get rid of this property and have another party activate this site with a mix of uses. That would be the best option for downtown vibrancy and cheapest for JEA.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Downtown-Jacksonville-January/i-pXJdqV4/0/L/20170128_120010-L.jpg)
Some sketches from the 1971 Master Plan when the DDA proposed connecting these buildings with May Cohens (now city) via a multi-level above ground enclosed shopping mall:
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/downtown_frankenstein/1971_master_plan/hemming-plaza-plan.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/downtown_frankenstein/1971_master_plan/Laura-Church-graphic.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/downtown_frankenstein/1971_master_plan/Church-Main-graphic.jpg)
I have always found the JEA building very unattractive. I don't see retail going back into that area either. DT has a long way to go before that would happen. Maybe JEA could rehab/add on to the Old Independent Life building (not to be confused with the Wells Fargo building, which was the succeeding Independent Life building).
Quote from: Jim on January 27, 2017, 03:36:54 PM
Reminds of when their were proposals for the other JEA building.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-6845-jea_tower.jpg)
Edjax, I believe they have a chilling plant behind the new courthouse.
This was the old Independent Life building wasn't it?
^Yes, JEA doesn't own that building anymore.
Quote from: vicupstate on January 28, 2017, 05:14:31 PM
I have always found the JEA building very unattractive.
Like the Haydon Burns Library, it's a Mid Century Modern complex of buildings. Some will hate the look of buildings from that era, others will cherish them.
QuoteI don't see retail going back into that area either. DT has a long way to go before that would happen.
Yeah, nothing full blown like it was in the 1960s. However, Main/Ocean still had an AADT around 20k in 2015, according to FDOT Traffic Online. That's significantly higher than any other streets in DT outside of State and Union.
While it probably won't land a Target, the traffic count, DT's workforce population, ground floor plates, dedicated parking and site visibility could be feasible for some other big box uses like a Walgreens, Staples, Office Depot, etc. Because of the floor plates, the various buildings may be suitable for a host of other mix of uses ranging from dining, cultural and retail to hotel, office and residential.
I love the look of the old Ivy (now JEA) building. I remember this building in the early to mid 60s when it was virtually new (I was about 7 or 8 years old back then). I have always loved skyscrapers and was in awe of them and back in the day I used to get happy when my Mom said we were going shopping to Woolworth's, penny's, may cohens, etc. It was a treat to me holding her hand and just gawking and staring at those tall buildings (no true talls or even supertalls in jax back then). In my opinion, and I hope, they sell the existing building, and build a brand new skyscraper (around 400 to 500 feet tall), to provide a signature and impact to the city and the skyline; hey, JEA is a local business and commercial force in Jacksonville, so don't be scared JEA, provide an "in your face" impact and effect by building a signature skyscraper to add to our already interesting skyline (it could use a lot more for a city of almost 900K people). This is my take.
Since they don't want the parking structure under the building a realistic expectation would be ~250-300' high. If they put the employee parking under the building it could be closer to 400'
Without integrated parking, with the amount of desired square footage, you'd probably be looking at something in the range of EverBank on Riverside Avenue.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/plog-content/images/development/downtown-construction-update---july-2007/p1020786.JPG)
Modest and restrained, but doable and acceptable.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 29, 2017, 08:58:20 AM
Without integrated parking, with the amount of desired square footage, you'd probably be looking at something in the range of EverBank on Riverside Avenue.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/plog-content/images/development/downtown-construction-update---july-2007/p1020786.JPG)
What about the idea of them buying an existing building like the Aetna Building, Riverside Everbank, or One Enterprise?
Also, there is way too much vacant land for them to demolish the building. Sell it off. I think a great block for the building would be across from the Library on Main. They also already own some land across the street where the Salvation Army is.
An existing building constructed for another use, basically puts them in the same situation that they have with the JEA Building. If you're going to spend millions because one building isn't suited for your specialized operational needs, you might as well build something new that is designed and built specifically for your niche.
It seems crazy to pay to tear down the building when there must be other lots that would be suitable. Unlike some uses, a utility company office facility doesn't need a prime location and ought to work anywhere else in downtown. Plus, what are they going to do until the thing is demolished and rebuilt? There must be some other way to do this.
For consideration...JEA build anew, the School Board sells their property on the river and lease either the customer service center or part of the former tower. Thoughts?
^Hmm. Well it would have the dedicated parking that the school board seeks. However, it's about twice as much space than the school board needs.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 30, 2017, 03:40:44 PM
^Hmm. Well it would have the dedicated parking that the school board seeks. However, it's about twice as much space than the school board needs.
Even just the Customer Service Center?
The old Ivey's is six stories with around 180,000 square feet. The DCPS building is 112,000 square feet and they are willing to take less space, if the right deal comes along. Could DCPS be a potential tenant if JEA left? Sure. They could be one of a large mix of office, retail and residential uses that could help fill up the space vacated by JEA.
Couldn't the city "make" JEA give it away for free to a developer or business they want to bring downtown? I think the DIA should be brought in to take a much closer look at this!
^No, the city can't "make" JEA give their property away for free. The city won't do that for the properties they do own (ex. city hall annex, old courthouse, etc.).
But as a quasi-governmental organization that relies on the City to allow them to charge certain rates, they can be persuaded if the City really wanted. ;)
Imagine the uproar from rate payers, the media, etc. if JEA just "gave away" a (multi)million dollar asset even if it was at the demand of the city. I doubt anyone would want to jump down that rabbit hole.
EDIT** by gave away, I mean anything less than fair market value.
They didn't give up the JEA southside generation station site for free. I seriously doubt they'd give up the Church Street blocks for free. However, the fear a bad public image would probably have more impact on getting them to build elsewhere (the cheaper option) and selling the existing property.
Plus in reality, selling the existing property actually brings them more money and if a new use can be found, enhances the Northbank environment two fold:
A. The chilled water block is a dead block. A new building enhances the surrounding LaVilla area, keeps 800 employees downtown, opening economic opportunity for supporting businesses in that struggling area of the Northbank. Also, having another highrise in the skyline would be a benefit to the Northbank's image.
B. Redevelopment of JEA's current site with a mix of alternative uses that put people on the street at night and on weekends, would be a better use of the Church Street site than keeping JEA there. More pedestrian scale activity in that section of the Northbank would help create an environment for additional redevelopment, helping stimulate the Northbank away from the riverfront.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 31, 2017, 10:54:19 AM
They didn't give up the JEA southside generation station site for free. I seriously doubt they'd give up the Church Street blocks for free. However, the fear a bad public image would probably have more impact on getting them to build elsewhere (the cheaper option) and selling the existing property.
Plus in reality, selling the existing property actually brings them more money and if a new use can be found, enhances the Northbank environment two fold:
A. The chilled water block is a dead block. A new building enhances the surrounding LaVilla area, keeps 800 employees downtown, opening economic opportunity for supporting businesses in that struggling area of the Northbank. Also, having another highrise in the skyline would be a benefit to the Northbank's image.
B. Redevelopment of JEA's current site with a mix of alternative uses that put people on the street at night and on weekends, would be a better use of the Church Street site than keeping JEA there. More pedestrian scale activity in that section of the Northbank would help create an environment for additional redevelopment, helping stimulate the Northbank away from the riverfront.
Where is the Chilled Water Block?
Lake, what is the current occupancy rate of the downtown area? It seems many are suggesting that it would be so easy to find other users or a buyer for their current building, but when I read the MJ pages over the past year or so, I get the feeling that there is already too much empty office space in DT. Is that the case, or have things improved? (Or, was I misinformed to begin with?)
In 2015: 18.5% vacancy rate Class A, 12.6% Class B and 43.4% Class C.
http://downtownjacksonville.org/Libraries/PDF_Libraries/2015_State_of_Downtown_Report_Low_Res.sflb.ashx
IMO, you most likely fill it with a mix of things that would include a significantly reduced amount of office space. Maybe apartments, a hotel and mix of those uses with some office space since plumbing needs to be updated anyway? As for the old retail spaces, maybe some niche retail or restaurant spaces. You could even go with cultural or storage uses in spaces with no windows and high ceiling heights, like the upper floors of the old Ivey's. Heck, you could probably turn the ground floor of the old Ivey's into a craft brewery, given the floor-to-ceiling heights of its main lobby area.
As an example, GDC Properties turned the former 113,000 square foot Orlando Utilities Commission building in downtown Orlando into an 118-unit Aloft Hotel a few years ago. In Detroit, the long closed 1,136 room Book Cadillac Hotel was renovated into a 455 room Westin and 67 condo units in 2008 after being vacant for 20 years.
Anyway, I'm not saying any specific type of use is 100% viable. I'm just saying you can do a lot with a structurally viable set of buildings, with their own built in off-street parking needs, outside of just using them as traditional office space. Demolition of structurally sound buildings shouldn't be a real option on the table, IMO.
Quote from: FlaBoy on January 31, 2017, 11:00:32 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 31, 2017, 10:54:19 AM
They didn't give up the JEA southside generation station site for free. I seriously doubt they'd give up the Church Street blocks for free. However, the fear a bad public image would probably have more impact on getting them to build elsewhere (the cheaper option) and selling the existing property.
Plus in reality, selling the existing property actually brings them more money and if a new use can be found, enhances the Northbank environment two fold:
A. The chilled water block is a dead block. A new building enhances the surrounding LaVilla area, keeps 800 employees downtown, opening economic opportunity for supporting businesses in that struggling area of the Northbank. Also, having another highrise in the skyline would be a benefit to the Northbank's image.
B. Redevelopment of JEA's current site with a mix of alternative uses that put people on the street at night and on weekends, would be a better use of the Church Street site than keeping JEA there. More pedestrian scale activity in that section of the Northbank would help create an environment for additional redevelopment, helping stimulate the Northbank away from the riverfront.
Where is the Chilled Water Block?
Is the site behind the Courthouse?
Quote from: thelakelander on January 31, 2017, 11:43:07 AM
In 2015: 18.5% vacancy rate Class A, 12.6% Class B and 43.4% Class C.
http://downtownjacksonville.org/Libraries/PDF_Libraries/2015_State_of_Downtown_Report_Low_Res.sflb.ashx
IMO, you most likely fill it with a mix of things that would include a significantly reduced amount of office space. Maybe apartments, a hotel and mix of those uses with some office space since plumbing needs to be updated anyway? As for the old retail spaces, maybe some niche retail or restaurant spaces. You could even go with cultural or storage uses in spaces with no windows and high ceiling heights, like the upper floors of the old Ivey's. Heck, you could probably turn the ground floor of the old Ivey's into a craft brewery, given the floor-to-ceiling heights of its main lobby area.
As an example, GDC Properties turned the former 113,000 square foot Orlando Utilities Commission building in downtown Orlando into an 118-unit Aloft Hotel a few years ago. In Detroit, the long closed 1,136 room Book Cadillac Hotel was renovated into a 455 room Westin and 67 condo units in 2008 after being vacant for 20 years.
Anyway, I'm not saying any specific type of use is 100% viable. I'm just saying you can do a lot with a structurally viable set of buildings, with their own built in off-street parking needs, outside of just using them as traditional office space. Demolition of structurally sound buildings shouldn't be a real option on the table, IMO.
Would this qualify as Class B?
Don't forget the surface lot across main street by the Salvation Army.
Quote from: camarocane on January 31, 2017, 12:05:53 PM
Don't forget the surface lot across main street by the Salvation Army.
I don't know who owns that land, but that would be my preferred spot.
Did the discussion concerning the old JEA building ever have any movement past this?
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/04/09/developer-proposing-31-million-project-at-former.html
Quote from: heights unknown on January 28, 2017, 07:10:44 PM
I love the look of the old Ivy (now JEA) building. I remember this building in the early to mid 60s when it was virtually new (I was about 7 or 8 years old back then). I have always loved skyscrapers and was in awe of them and back in the day I used to get happy when my Mom said we were going shopping to Woolworth's, penny's, may cohens, etc. It was a treat to me holding her hand and just gawking and staring at those tall buildings (no true talls or even supertalls in jax back then). In my opinion, and I hope, they sell the existing building, and build a brand new skyscraper (around 400 to 500 feet tall), to provide a signature and impact to the city and the skyline; hey, JEA is a local business and commercial force in Jacksonville, so don't be scared JEA, provide an "in your face" impact and effect by building a signature skyscraper to add to our already interesting skyline (it could use a lot more for a city of almost 900K people). This is my take.
I like that mind set. Skyscrapers are always appropriate in the downtown area of a big city, and Jax is in desperate need of some signature buildings. I was in both Tampa and Orlando this past weekend and was so thrilled to see the wonderful highrises they both have giving that big city look and feel that Jax desperately needs. I'm just tired of having to avoid downtown when I have visitors in town for fear they will be disappointed with, or laugh at our downtown. Maybe one good size building of at least 25 stories is needed to stimulate downtown in general and surely other developments even taller will follow.
Quote from: FlaBoy on February 02, 2017, 10:01:23 AM
Did the discussion concerning the old JEA building ever have any movement past this?
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/04/09/developer-proposing-31-million-project-at-former.html
I was told by a credible source that this project is still moving forward.
Quote from: howfam on April 20, 2017, 08:16:19 PM
Quote from: heights unknown on January 28, 2017, 07:10:44 PM
I love the look of the old Ivy (now JEA) building. I remember this building in the early to mid 60s when it was virtually new (I was about 7 or 8 years old back then). I have always loved skyscrapers and was in awe of them and back in the day I used to get happy when my Mom said we were going shopping to Woolworth's, penny's, may cohens, etc. It was a treat to me holding her hand and just gawking and staring at those tall buildings (no true talls or even supertalls in jax back then). In my opinion, and I hope, they sell the existing building, and build a brand new skyscraper (around 400 to 500 feet tall), to provide a signature and impact to the city and the skyline; hey, JEA is a local business and commercial force in Jacksonville, so don't be scared JEA, provide an "in your face" impact and effect by building a signature skyscraper to add to our already interesting skyline (it could use a lot more for a city of almost 900K people). This is my take.
I like that mind set. Skyscrapers are always appropriate in the downtown area of a big city, and Jax is in desperate need of some signature buildings. I was in both Tampa and Orlando this past weekend and was so thrilled to see the wonderful highrises they both have giving that big city look and feel that Jax desperately needs. I'm just tired of having to avoid downtown when I have visitors in town for fear they will be disappointed with, or laugh at our downtown. Maybe one good size building of at least 25 stories is needed to stimulate downtown in general and surely other developments even taller will follow.
Tampa I can understand but Orlando I don't. Jax is taller and has more towers over 300' or 25 floors. Granted Orlando has more newer towers.
Have you never driven over the Fuller Warren bridge?
Age and perception are the main things with the skylines of Jax and Orlando. Jax's skyline is essentially the same as what it was since the completion of BOA during the early 1990s. Orlando only had two decent highrises back in those days (three if you count the Orange County Courthouse completed around 1995). Now, two decades later, it's got an impressive skyline that's short but also bit more denser. Even though it's pretty small for a metro Orlando's size, it's all new so it's is viewed as progress. On the other hand, Jax's skyline was always larger than the typical skyline for a city its size, due to the banks and insurance companies that used to be headquartered here. It literally hasn't grown because we ended up with a glut of empty existing space when those companies left via consolidation in those industries. Thus, Jax's situation revolves around backfilling vacant space while Orlando is building space that it never had. So even though we've landed some major companies like EverBank and Citizens, you'd never know it from passing through town because the buildings they're housed in were already standing.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 20, 2017, 09:58:01 PM
Quote from: FlaBoy on February 02, 2017, 10:01:23 AM
Did the discussion concerning the old JEA building ever have any movement past this?
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/04/09/developer-proposing-31-million-project-at-former.html
I was told by a credible source that this project is still moving forward.
Last I heard they were committed to staying in downtown Jax. If it moves forward, they will put the building up for sale while they build out at another location. If it doesn't sell during that time, the building will be demo'ed and a park constructed in its place. If we're years away from any action on this, I sure hope the mindset changes and the building can be saved.
Not sure if it would be possible, I'm not very familiar with how codes / designs work, but it would be awesome to see it converted into a mixture of offices/hotel/condo/apartments/reopen the rooftop restaurant. It's really not a bad location for all of those and it would help spark the re-use of the old, old JEA building behind Sweet Pete's IMO.
Also, as someone who lived in downtown Jax for almost 5 years and has lived in / near downtown Orlando the last 3 years, it's definitely the density and "newness" that makes Orlando's downtown better. As Lake said, most of the highrises are barely 10-20 years old and many of them are mixed use. Downtown Orlando also feels a lot cleaner than downtown Jax. I think it's a combination of the pocket parks and greenery hanging from the light posts. There's just as many hobo's hobbling around here, but since there are so many more people living in a smaller space you don't notice/feel unsafe because you're never alone. 55 W, Cobb Plaza, Solair, Post Parkside, Paramount On Lake Eola, and Aspire are just SOME of the mixed use highrises here. They all have a mix of ground level shops, bars, businesses, restaurants, PUBLIX, CVS, etc. And there are cranes constantly putting in new mid/high rises. Seriously, I can't even count how many new buildings have gone up just in the last 3 years and there's no sign of it stopping. UCF is about to start work on a massive campus expansion downtown, a new SunRail/multimodal hub is being designed, and this is about to start construction. http://www.lpcsoutheast.com/properties/tremont-plaza/
Unlike Jacksonville, nearly all of the highrises have shops, restaurants, bars and businesses on the ground floor. When you walk around downtown Orlando at any given time, day or night, you see people patronizing these places. In the time I lived downtown Jacksonville I would run and ride my bike nearly everyday. I liked exploring new areas. But man, everywhere always seems dead. Even in the day time. Riverplace blvd is a prime example of a spot that doesn't exist in Downtown Orlando. You have the cities premier public spaces there (Riverwalk, Friendship Fountain, Treaty Park, MoSH, Apartments, Offices, Hotels, etc), but nothing is on the ground level so you rarely see anyone. Even the vagrants don't walk around there.
Long rant short, until Jacksonville starts embracing mixed use buildings and enforcing new buildings/renovated highrises to create public ground level spaces it will never thrive. Yes, we need more places to live, but from what I've seen even the new apartments that are going in next to the Court house and Convention center completely ignore the sidewalks and the city isn't doing anything about it. Hopefully once the density picks up a little more they put their heels down...
I think Jax has an impressive skyline; but it is not dense, nor proportionate. It is not a skyline that's commensurate with a city of close to 1 million people. Miami is a city whose skyline is disproportionate for a city of almost 500,000 people. Miami's skyline is that of a city of close to or over a million people in population in my opinion. Jax needs more, skyscraper wise on the North Bank. The South Bank will take care of itself (and it has). It would be nice if JEA, which is a top tier company in the Jax Area, would take the lead so to speak and dare to pierce into the clouds and skyline with a super tall that would totally scream Jacksonville when people see it. You guys can down play it, dismiss it, or bark at it, but almost EVERYONE loves seeing, viewing, and checking out city skylines and tall buildings and towers within those skylines; you cannot refute this or dismiss it. So let's get em built when we get the chance! The BOA Tower in Charlotte did just that for that southern city. When you see that tower you know that's the city of Charlotte, and it screams FOR the city. No, towers/skyscrapers do not make a city; people make a city. But the attitude and emotion of that city, whether positive or negative, especially a big or major city, permeates through the buildings and skyline of the urban core/downtown.
I have included/attached a recent picture which is the best picture ever I have seen of downtown Jacksonville and the Urban Core. Just click on the below link and check it out; it is a cool aerial of downtown Jax.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=0%2BfIwDzm&id=98FB84276A7644A027A458FFDACC7CE4C5298700&thid=OIP.0-fIwDzmWB_XrCHey-cwXQEsCO&q=aerial+photos+of+downtown+jacksonville&simid=608045724190247187&selectedindex=67&mode=overlay&first=1
Quote from: heights unknown on April 21, 2017, 01:41:58 PM
I think Jax has an impressive skyline; but it is not dense, nor proportionate. It is not a skyline that's commensurate with a city of close to 1 million people. Miami is a city whose skyline is disproportionate for a city of almost 500,000 people. Miami's skyline is that of a city of close to or over a million people in population in my opinion. Jax needs more, skyscraper wise on the North Bank. The South Bank will take care of itself (and it has). It would be nice if JEA, which is a top tier company in the Jax Area, would take the lead so to speak and dare to pierce into the clouds and skyline with a super tall that would totally scream Jacksonville when people see it. You guys can down play it, dismiss it, or bark at it, but almost EVERYONE loves seeing, viewing, and checking out city skylines and tall buildings and towers within those skylines; you cannot refute this or dismiss it. So let's get em built when we get the chance! The BOA Tower in Charlotte did just that for that southern city. When you see that tower you know that's the city of Charlotte, and it screams FOR the city. No, towers/skyscrapers do not make a city; people make a city. But the attitude and emotion of that city, whether positive or negative, especially a big or major city, permeates through the buildings and skyline of the urban core/downtown.
I have included/attached a recent picture which is the best picture ever I have seen of downtown Jacksonville and the Urban Core. Just click on the below link and check it out; it is a cool aerial of downtown Jax.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=0%2BfIwDzm&id=98FB84276A7644A027A458FFDACC7CE4C5298700&thid=OIP.0-fIwDzmWB_XrCHey-cwXQEsCO&q=aerial+photos+of+downtown+jacksonville&simid=608045724190247187&selectedindex=67&mode=overlay&first=1
You have to look at metro population when comparing downtown. Otherwise San Fransisco and Seattle are insane compared to San Jose.
As for best pics of Jax skyline, I have a good one for you.
(http://metroscenes.com/jacksonville/images/jacksonville_2009_metroscenes.com_17.jpg)
(http://metroscenes.com/jacksonville/images/jacksonville_2009_metroscenes.com_14.jpg)
Great shots Jim!
Quote from: heights unknown on April 21, 2017, 01:41:58 PM
I think Jax has an impressive skyline; but it is not dense, nor proportionate. It is not a skyline that's commensurate with a city of close to 1 million people. Miami is a city whose skyline is disproportionate for a city of almost 500,000 people. Miami's skyline is that of a city of close to or over a million people in population in my opinion.
City limit numbers are pretty deceiving. Miami is the core city of the country's 8th largest metropolitan area with 6 million residents. Jax is the core city of the country's 40th largest metropolitan area with 1.5 million residents. Jax's skyline measures up well with metropolitan areas within its range like Oklahoma City, Memphis (hehe RattlerGator), Raleigh, Norfolk, Milwaukee, etc.
QuoteJax needs more, skyscraper wise on the North Bank. The South Bank will take care of itself (and it has).
The river definitely creates a unique dynamic with the skyline. However, when viewed from an angle that combines both the Southbank and Northbank, or shows the hidden highrises of the Northbank, the skyline is much larger than we typically think.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Wholesale-District/i-jpMTwkG/0/XL/Honeymoon-Yard-1-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Wholesale-District/i-zPSM4rh/0/XL/Honeymoon-Yard-4-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Neighborhoods/Ortega-Historic-District-June/i-ShtMjgb/0/XL/P1360350-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Neighborhoods/Ortega-Historic-District-June/i-S6DR7WV/0/XL/P1360276-XL.jpg)
Nice perspective Jim, is that taken from the cruise terminal?
Nearby the cruise terminal. They were taken from Mill Cove but they are not my own. Matt Robinson took those.
I have others that are similar though. At the old site, I had a long collection of my photos. I may have to do it here again.
Grand Rapids, Michigan is an almost identically-sized MSA to Jacksonville, and also an older city with the river being it's reason for being. If you look at its skyline, there is nothing about it that screams "look at me" any more than Jacksonville's. However, they have a great hockey team that puts 12,000 people into seats 40+ times a year, a concert calendar that probably does another 80-100 nights, and that wavy shaped building just over the trees is a massive convention center that packs things in nearly every week. There is residential, there is commercial, and there is life. 30 years ago, almost none of this existed. It obviously takes more than just pretty buildings; it takes a commitment by people who have large wallets and even more belief in their city. Until Jacksonville has that, I am unconvinced that anything like this will take place.
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b597/TimmyB44/gr%20skyline_zpsgxaeibp8.jpg)
My last trip to Grand Rapids was in 2008.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-sep-elements-of-urbanism-grand-rapids
I may be up in the area briefly this summer. It seemed to have a pretty clean and impressive downtown back then. Like Orlando, the downtown skyline is smaller than most metropolitan areas its size. However, it has some decent density at the pedestrian scale level and a good number of buildings that meet and interact with the street. I had a conversation with a friend at the Court Food Truck Park a few days ago. We both agreed that one of the best things we could do with downtown is to retrofit existing buildings to better meet the street. There are a ton of businesses on the ground floor of our office towers that most people don't even know about because there's no signage or visibility from the sidewalks.
35 years ago when I left there, you could go downtown after 6 PM and hit a golf ball without worrying about hitting a soul. Obviously, that is not true today! It took the commitment of a couple of local billionaires for everyone else to buy in to the vision. It's a really cool place, now, and they keep making it better. All the buildings that you see in the 2nd quarter of the picture are new since you were there (the"medical mile") and there is talk of ridding the Grand River of the dams and making it a paddling destination.
Beautiful shots Jim; fantastic photos of Jax' skyline. To keep on topic, just hope JEA does build a signature "look at me" tower downtown.
I mentioned in my post that "people make a city, not the buildings" no matter how tall or how pretty; this I know.
And yes, people with deep pockets that are ready to commit and contribute, and, the city's economy has to be there as well; several things must be in place to support those talls and super talls.
Love those pics thought that Jim took. I have often seen Jax from those vantage points, for the exception of from the east side (Dames Point?).
I also understand the population proportion, i.e., urban population, MSA, Metro, etc. Some cities have skylines and buildup in the urban core commensurate with their population; Jax does not. Thanx to consolidation, Jax's population relative to urban core and metro buildup is indeed misleading and deceptive; but I believe that soon everything will fall into place.
Back to the topic at hand, JEA needs to "step up" and build a signature building; that is all.
Quote from: TimmyB on April 21, 2017, 09:35:10 PM
35 years ago when I left there, you could go downtown after 6 PM and hit a golf ball without worrying about hitting a soul. Obviously, that is not true today! It took the commitment of a couple of local billionaires for everyone else to buy in to the vision. It's a really cool place, now, and they keep making it better. All the buildings that you see in the 2nd quarter of the picture are new since you were there (the"medical mile") and there is talk of ridding the Grand River of the dams and making it a paddling destination.
Grand Rapids' downtown/urban core is very impressive. TimmyB, you give more credit to the local billionaire patrons than I would - they were/are important, but the real thing that made it happen was the Grand Action plan. It was a public-private plan with a lot of emphasis on continuity and public buy-in. They picked a plan and stuck with it - there were some boneheaded moves, but ultimately things shook out and they built on the smart moves, and now it has the feel of a vibrant city much larger than it is.
In comparison, Jax hasn't put nearly that kind of investment in, and especially, we haven't had nearly the followthrough between administrations. To give an example, in the same time frame we had a lot of Downtown investment under Mayor Godbold in the 80s. Not everything was well considered by modern standards - the Southbank Riverwalk was on the wrong side of the river, the Landing's got its back to downtown - but overall the momentum was great. But there was little followthrough under the Hazouri administration, which didn't have a major downtown focus. Under Mayor Austin we got back on track with River City Renaissance - again, some missteps (LaVilla) but a lot of other steps forward. When my old man was mayor, it was really the last time we had an administration that tried to build on the predecessors' successors downtown. The result was a large amount of projects and the Better Jacksonville Plan, and even a formal downtown master plan. But then, Mayors Peyton and Brown didn't do much for Downtown - existing projects were finished off (some more successfully than others), but little new was started. Mayor Curry is poised to make some big moves with several projects, but it feels like we're starting from scratch again.
We have a tendency to be overly negative in Jax; we actually do a lot right. Few cities have things like the Timucuan Preserve, we're growing fast, and we have a pretty robust and diverse local economy (especially compared to Michigan). Unfortunately we still haven't figured out Downtown, and we're far behind for a city of our size. Sadly I don't see that changing anytime soon; most of the positive moves downtown haven't had anything to do with the city leadership.
Quote from: Tacachale on April 22, 2017, 09:38:17 AM
Quote from: TimmyB on April 21, 2017, 09:35:10 PM
35 years ago when I left there, you could go downtown after 6 PM and hit a golf ball without worrying about hitting a soul. Obviously, that is not true today! It took the commitment of a couple of local billionaires for everyone else to buy in to the vision. It's a really cool place, now, and they keep making it better. All the buildings that you see in the 2nd quarter of the picture are new since you were there (the"medical mile") and there is talk of ridding the Grand River of the dams and making it a paddling destination.
Grand Rapids' downtown/urban core is very impressive. TimmyB, you give more credit to the local billionaire patrons than I would - they were/are important, but the real thing that made it happen was the Grand Action plan. It was a public-private plan with a lot of emphasis on continuity and public buy-in. They picked a plan and stuck with it - there were some boneheaded moves, but ultimately things shook out and they built on the smart moves, and now it has the feel of a vibrant city much larger than it is.
In comparison, Jax hasn't put nearly that kind of investment in, and especially, we haven't had nearly the followthrough between administrations. To give an example, in the same time frame we had a lot of Downtown investment under Mayor Godbold in the 80s. Not everything was well considered by modern standards - the Southbank Riverwalk was on the wrong side of the river, the Landing's got its back to downtown - but overall the momentum was great. But there was little followthrough under the Hazouri administration, which didn't have a major downtown focus. Under Mayor Austin we got back on track with River City Renaissance - again, some missteps (LaVilla) but a lot of other steps forward. When my old man was mayor, it was really the last time we had an administration that tried to build on the predecessors' successors downtown. The result was a large amount of projects and the Better Jacksonville Plan, and even a formal downtown master plan. But then, Mayors Peyton and Brown didn't do much for Downtown - existing projects were finished off (some more successfully than others), but little new was started. Mayor Curry is poised to make some big moves with several projects, but it feels like we're starting from scratch again.
We have a tendency to be overly negative in Jax; we actually do a lot right. Few cities have things like the Timucuan Preserve, we're growing fast, and we have a pretty robust and diverse local economy (especially compared to Michigan). Unfortunately we still haven't figured out Downtown, and we're far behind for a city of our size. Sadly I don't see that changing anytime soon; most of the positive moves downtown haven't had anything to do with the city leadership.
Well, trust me, I'm about as far from the Amway fan bandwagon as you can get, but the reason I do give them that credit is their investment in the old Pantlind Hotel, which came during the depths of the recession of the late seventies/early eighties. This, to me, was the opening shot and created the positive energy, which (as you mentioned) was carried on from adminstration to administration.
Quote from: Tacachale on April 22, 2017, 09:38:17 AM
Quote from: TimmyB on April 21, 2017, 09:35:10 PM
35 years ago when I left there, you could go downtown after 6 PM and hit a golf ball without worrying about hitting a soul. Obviously, that is not true today! It took the commitment of a couple of local billionaires for everyone else to buy in to the vision. It's a really cool place, now, and they keep making it better. All the buildings that you see in the 2nd quarter of the picture are new since you were there (the"medical mile") and there is talk of ridding the Grand River of the dams and making it a paddling destination.
Grand Rapids' downtown/urban core is very impressive. TimmyB, you give more credit to the local billionaire patrons than I would - they were/are important, but the real thing that made it happen was the Grand Action plan. It was a public-private plan with a lot of emphasis on continuity and public buy-in. They picked a plan and stuck with it - there were some boneheaded moves, but ultimately things shook out and they built on the smart moves, and now it has the feel of a vibrant city much larger than it is.
In comparison, Jax hasn't put nearly that kind of investment in, and especially, we haven't had nearly the followthrough between administrations. To give an example, in the same time frame we had a lot of Downtown investment under Mayor Godbold in the 80s. Not everything was well considered by modern standards - the Southbank Riverwalk was on the wrong side of the river, the Landing's got its back to downtown - but overall the momentum was great. But there was little followthrough under the Hazouri administration, which didn't have a major downtown focus. Under Mayor Austin we got back on track with River City Renaissance - again, some missteps (LaVilla) but a lot of other steps forward. When my old man was mayor, it was really the last time we had an administration that tried to build on the predecessors' successors downtown. The result was a large amount of projects and the Better Jacksonville Plan, and even a formal downtown master plan. But then, Mayors Peyton and Brown didn't do much for Downtown - existing projects were finished off (some more successfully than others), but little new was started. Mayor Curry is poised to make some big moves with several projects, but it feels like we're starting from scratch again.
We have a tendency to be overly negative in Jax; we actually do a lot right. Few cities have things like the Timucuan Preserve, we're growing fast, and we have a pretty robust and diverse local economy (especially compared to Michigan). Unfortunately we still haven't figured out Downtown, and we're far behind for a city of our size. Sadly I don't see that changing anytime soon; most of the positive moves downtown haven't had anything to do with the city leadership.
Very accurate summary.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 21, 2017, 02:09:13 PM
Great shots Jim!
* * *
Jax's skyline measures up well with metropolitan areas within its range like Oklahoma City, Memphis (hehe RattlerGator), Raleigh, Norfolk, Milwaukee, etc.
Agreed. Great photos and you'll get no disagreement from me -- my man -- on *this* particular comparison to Memphis and others, but ours is the best among the group.
I've always favored a picture of our skyline from an area surrounding either of the Ortega bridges; day or night, beautiful shots.
Give me urban density over height anytime. Jax might look comparable to OKC or Memphis when viewed from 5 miles away but up close - Jax has a long long way to go. I would prefer JEA build 5 stories of quality urbanism vs. 50 stories with no street-level interaction and corporate plazas on every side.
QuoteJEA, DIA discussing utility's aging HQ
By Karen Brune Mathis, Editor
JEA and the Downtown Investment Authority are discussing options for the city utility's aging headquarters building.
"I can acknowledge we have had conversations with the JEA in regard to their existing site," said DIA CEO Aundra Wallace.
Those discussions included what the JEA plans to do with its property at 21 W. Church St. Downtown "and the need for a potential new headquarters," he said Tuesday.
Asked where the site would be, Wallace said he couldn't say. "Not right now, but check back with me in 24-48 hours," he said.
Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=550011
In addition to rebuilding at the existing site, La Villa, the Shipyards and the city core were all mentioned as well.
Would love to see it in Lavilla near the JRTC.
I'd love to see them building something on one of their nearby underutilized sites in the Northbank and sell the existing complex to the private sector. Moving that amount of employees outside of the heart of the Northbank will have a negative impact on downtown's highest concentration of retailers, restaurants and support businesses. While a shiny new office tower on a fringe site like the Shipyards would look good from a post card, it won't have the same economic impact on small businesses within the core.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 14, 2017, 10:35:20 AM
QuoteJEA, DIA discussing utility's aging HQ
By Karen Brune Mathis, Editor
JEA and the Downtown Investment Authority are discussing options for the city utility's aging headquarters building.
"I can acknowledge we have had conversations with the JEA in regard to their existing site," said DIA CEO Aundra Wallace.
Those discussions included what the JEA plans to do with its property at 21 W. Church St. Downtown "and the need for a potential new headquarters," he said Tuesday.
Asked where the site would be, Wallace said he couldn't say. "Not right now, but check back with me in 24-48 hours," he said.
Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=550011
WOW. JEA is one of the front line companies in Jacksonville and the First Coast area. In my opinion, they need to make a statement, for themselves and for the city, relative to the construction of this new headquarters. I would vote for LAVILLA first, the CORE second, and so on. But I hope they go tall (I love skycrapers) as we have not had a new signature office tower built in the city, if I am not wrong, since 1990 I believe.
Quote from: Kerry on April 26, 2017, 12:04:33 PM
Give me urban density over height anytime. Jax might look comparable to OKC or Memphis when viewed from 5 miles away but up close - Jax has a long long way to go. I would prefer JEA build 5 stories of quality urbanism vs. 50 stories with no street-level interaction and corporate plazas on every side.
I disagree. Then go 50 stories but be creative at the street level relative to providing shops, retail, restaurants, etc. I also agree, but to a very lesser extent, with your urbanism philosophy; but I am a "height" man (look at my site name) and love talls and supertalls, and yes, I understand that skyscrapers don't make a city; but that is my preference.
As long as it's not courthouse 2.0 I'm good. A single block or less with street level interaction is all I want.
What typically happens when a company demos their existing building and rebuilds on the same site? I'd assume JEA would have to rent office space elsewhere for two years.
My preference would be:
1) Relocate in the urban core and hopefully find someone willing to do something with the existing building.
2) Relocate to Lavilla, sell old building
3) Rebuild at existing site
4) Shipyards
Quote from: KenFSU on June 14, 2017, 02:51:11 PM
What typically happens when a company demos their existing building and rebuilds on the same site? I'd assume JEA would have to rent office space elsewhere for two years.
My preference would be:
1) Relocate in the urban core and hopefully find someone willing to do something with the existing building.
2) Relocate to Lavilla, sell old building
3) Rebuild at existing site
4) Shipyards
My belief is they can find someone willing to do something with the current building. In this day and age, moving twice is a giant pain. Ether build something or lease something, get it prepared, move, then sell the building.
If I had a magic wand, I'd put them in a high rise in one of the 3 surface lots near One Enterprise Center and the Omni. It would really boost foot traffic in the area around the landing/performing arts center, be less than a block from a skyway station, be close enough to the river to impact the skyline and it'd be in a good siteline from the last Villa area.
If I had a slightly less powerful wand, I'd knock down the old courthouse behind the Hyatt and put them there...
Quote from: jaxjaguar on June 14, 2017, 03:29:25 PM
If I had a magic wand, I'd put them in a high rise in one of the 3 surface lots near One Enterprise Center and the Omni. It would really boost foot traffic in the area around the landing/performing arts center, be less than a block from a skyway station, be close enough to the river to impact the skyline and it'd be in a good siteline from the last Villa area.
If I had a slightly less powerful wand, I'd knock down the old courthouse behind the Hyatt and put them there...
I agree wholeheartedly Jax Jaguar; I like your opinions and recommendation; sounds good to me. They do need to put it in either one of those two places (enterprise center or Omni parking lot); would be a slender tower I think but you could really go tall, and you would have Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and the old CSX buildings which are talls, in the same proximity adding "tall" density to the middle core. I really like what you recommended.
Main Street and Duval makes the most sense to me. It is a huge hole in downtown at this point driving on Main St. It could also help to make the Main Street Pocket Park more than a homeless center. It is close to Hemming, the Library, Adams, and Laura. They also use the block up on Church for their vehicles already so they may already own that land for some use.
I think the open lots near the river will be our best chance at in-fill development in the near future including possible residential. The lot of Main and Duval will not be developed for another decade at least. Keep those open. The only other places I would be really tempted by as my second and third choices (if they put retail as part of the development) would be the block of the Annex Garage between Bay and Forsyth because I HATE that garage and the dead zone it leaves on Bay and Forsyth. The third option is the lot next to the State Attorneys Office on the corner of Adams and Julia.
In sum,
1) Corner of Main St. and Duval
2) Annex Garage Site
3) Corner of Adams and Julia
We need density folks. Enough of this spread out crap. Let's build a nice core of downtown and then spread out.
Finally, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD THEY TEAR DOWN THE CURRENT JEA BUILDING. NONE. Thanks! :D
How about on the site of the Main Street Pocket Park? That was a terrible decision to build.
Yeah, still waiting for the JEDC to deliver that hotel and Salvation Army to sell their land....
So they describe the parcel that JEA wants as 1.2 acres near the courthouse that is current used for parking. Welll hell that describes at least six possible lots. Can someone clue me in on which block??
Correction. 1.52acres
Sounds like the old George Washington Hotel site.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4294722096_XTFVKRC-L.jpg)
It's the block bounded by Adams, Julia, Monroe and Pearl Streets.
Quote from: FlaBoy on June 14, 2017, 08:02:45 PM
Main Street and Duval makes the most sense to me. It is a huge hole in downtown at this point driving on Main St. It could also help to make the Main Street Pocket Park more than a homeless center. It is close to Hemming, the Library, Adams, and Laura. They also use the block up on Church for their vehicles already so they may already own that land for some use.
I think the open lots near the river will be our best chance at in-fill development in the near future including possible residential. The lot of Main and Duval will not be developed for another decade at least. Keep those open. The only other places I would be really tempted by as my second and third choices (if they put retail as part of the development) would be the block of the Annex Garage between Bay and Forsyth because I HATE that garage and the dead zone it leaves on Bay and Forsyth. The third option is the lot next to the State Attorneys Office on the corner of Adams and Julia.
In sum,
1) Corner of Main St. and Duval
2) Annex Garage Site
3) Corner of Adams and Julia
We need density folks. Enough of this spread out crap. Let's build a nice core of downtown and then spread out.
Finally, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD THEY TEAR DOWN THE CURRENT JEA BUILDING. NONE. Thanks! :D
I
Quote from: FlaBoy on June 14, 2017, 08:02:45 PMI agree FLABOY with your recommendations; especially adding density and THEN spreading out.
Main Street and Duval makes the most sense to me. It is a huge hole in downtown at this point driving on Main St. It could also help to make the Main Street Pocket Park more than a homeless center. It is close to Hemming, the Library, Adams, and Laura. They also use the block up on Church for their vehicles already so they may already own that land for some use.
I think the open lots near the river will be our best chance at in-fill development in the near future including possible residential. The lot of Main and Duval will not be developed for another decade at least. Keep those open. The only other places I would be really tempted by as my second and third choices (if they put retail as part of the development) would be the block of the Annex Garage between Bay and Forsyth because I HATE that garage and the dead zone it leaves on Bay and Forsyth. The third option is the lot next to the State Attorneys Office on the corner of Adams and Julia.
In sum,
1) Corner of Main St. and Duval
2) Annex Garage Site
3) Corner of Adams and Julia
We need density folks. Enough of this spread out crap. Let's build a nice core of downtown and then spread out.
Finally, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD THEY TEAR DOWN THE CURRENT JEA BUILDING. NONE. Thanks! :D
I agree FLABOY with your recommendations, nothing wrong with those locations if zoning is right for such a building and they're available. Still also think that something on the river, or in enterprise center or across the street at the OMNI would be good too. Yes, DENSITY! And DON'T, I repeat DON'T demolish the old current building; renovate/upgrade it, sell it, so we can keep an iconic and historic skyscraper and part of the Jacksonville skyline; let's quit tearing down our historic parts of our downtown and our city if we can; we've destroyed too much already.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 15, 2017, 10:14:26 AM
Sounds like the old George Washington Hotel site.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4294722096_XTFVKRC-L.jpg)
It's the block bounded by Adams, Julia, Monroe and Pearl Streets.
That also would be a good location, but is it big enough? 1.2 acres is not all that big for a tower or campus unless you go super vertical.
What about the site of the existing Greyhound station? The block bound by Clay, Forsyth, Bay, Pearl?
1.57 acres, only one property owner to deal with, which won't have need of it soon.
Easy access to Courthouse garage and Water ST. garage. Directly across from Central Skyway station.
Would be 'on the postcard' next to Everbank building rather than hidden by it.
If the requirements are the same...
QuoteRequirements for a future building, according to the board presentation, include: being located downtown, accommodating 800 employees and parking spaces, about 220,000 square feet of space, full backup power, no parking garage under the building, state of the art emergency operations center, board room/auditorium for 300 people, parking for customers, and parking facility for JEA vehicles and equipment.
Assume a garage would take up half of the block. Then you'd have an adjacent building probably averaging somewhere around 20,000 square feet of space per floor. That would put you in the range of 11 stories, give or take, on a site this size.
Quote from: vicupstate on June 15, 2017, 10:46:31 AM
What about the site of the existing Greyhound station? The block bound by Clay, Forsyth, Bay, Pearl?
1.57 acres, only one property owner to deal with, which won't have need of it soon.
Easy access to Courthouse garage and Water ST. garage. Directly across from Central Skyway station.
Would be 'on the postcard' next to Everbank building rather than hidden by it.
Damn good point.
So the Greyhound station gets torn down.
Quote from: heights unknown on June 15, 2017, 10:20:35 AM
Still also think that something on the river
Putting another public entity on the river does not make sense. We already have the school board and the jail taking up prime real estate, and we just got the courthouse away from the river. That would be a step backwards to put JEA there imo.
Neither love nor hate the proposed location, but I do love the land swap, in that it incentives both the JEA and the city to aggressively seek a buyer for the existing JEA building.
Quote from: KenFSU on June 15, 2017, 01:24:17 PM
Neither love nor hate the proposed location, but I do love the land swap, in that it incentives both the JEA and the city to aggressively seek a buyer for the existing JEA building.
Under no circumstances should those buildings be torn down. None. I hope the city can find someone, and it would make sense since the building is in decent shape, needs renovations, but would cost a lot more to build that density from scratch nowadays.
I have thought the current JEA call center could be a great spot for DCPS (that or the old Armory which the city also owns) if they want to sell their land on the river.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 15, 2017, 10:14:26 AM
Sounds like the old George Washington Hotel site.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4294722096_XTFVKRC-L.jpg)
It's the block bounded by Adams, Julia, Monroe and Pearl Streets.
That was one of my top three choices. But the way the article read it could definitely be the lot in front of the Courthouse, next to the garage, as well. I wonder if they could utilize some existing parking at the Courthouse Parking Garage or Ed Ball Building if it is the old George Washington Hotel site.
http://jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=550021
Quote
Documents show that the utility wants a 1.52-acre site at 337 W. Adams St. next to the Duval County Courthouse that is being used for parking.
It is confirmed.
^That's the only surface parking lot the city owns that's immediately adjacent to the courthouse. Here's a picture of what was demolished for surface parking:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4301405824_mk3hGH9-800x1000.jpg)
Quote from: thelakelander on June 16, 2017, 11:32:39 AM
^That's the only surface parking lot the city owns that's immediately adjacent to the courthouse. Here's a picture of what was demolished for surface parking:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4301405824_mk3hGH9-800x1000.jpg)
It may not be as beautiful as that, but the current JEA Buildings are iconic in their own ways and must be preserved at this time. Another parking lot at that location would be a travesty for the city.
Were they added as contributing structures to the Downtown Historic District?
Quote from: thelakelander on June 16, 2017, 11:32:39 AM
^That's the only surface parking lot the city owns that's immediately adjacent to the courthouse. Here's a picture of what was demolished for surface parking:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4301405824_mk3hGH9-800x1000.jpg)
Hotel George Washington? My Mother worked there as a Maid in the 60's; I remember that building.
QuoteJEA bought the tower and the next-door customer service building in 1989 for $8 million. They were built in 1962.
JEA would swap its 1.84-acre site at 21 W. Church St., where it owns a 19-story headquarters tower and customer care center. The assessed value is $1.63 million.
So something that was worth 8 million in 1989 is only worth 1.63 million today.
Quote from: vicupstate on June 16, 2017, 01:38:53 PM
QuoteJEA bought the tower and the next-door customer service building in 1989 for $8 million. They were built in 1962.
JEA would swap its 1.84-acre site at 21 W. Church St., where it owns a 19-story headquarters tower and customer care center. The assessed value is $1.63 million.
So something that was worth 8 million in 1989 is only worth 1.63 million today.
If all of the building systems need to be replaced it will cost way more than that difference. Tens of millions.
Quote from: heights unknown on June 16, 2017, 01:37:30 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 16, 2017, 11:32:39 AM
^That's the only surface parking lot the city owns that's immediately adjacent to the courthouse. Here's a picture of what was demolished for surface parking:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4301405824_mk3hGH9-800x1000.jpg)
Hotel George Washington? My Mother worked there as a Maid in the 60's; I remember that building.
heights unknown: Have you heard anything about the JEA building the new headquarters building? I mean, with the talk of selling the utility fading, maybe expansion into newer facilities will again get some consideration.
Quote from: howfam on July 14, 2018, 11:17:39 PM
Quote from: heights unknown on June 16, 2017, 01:37:30 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 16, 2017, 11:32:39 AM
^That's the only surface parking lot the city owns that's immediately adjacent to the courthouse. Here's a picture of what was demolished for surface parking:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4301405824_mk3hGH9-800x1000.jpg)
Hotel George Washington? My Mother worked there as a Maid in the 60's; I remember that building.
heights unknown: Have you heard anything about the JEA building the new headquarters building? I mean, with the talk of selling the utility fading, maybe expansion into newer facilities will again get some consideration.
Haven't heard anything yet; nothing. And believe me, I've been looking. Just a hunch, but it's been a little over a year now since they announced this, so they've gotta be close to releasing THE rendering to the public. They probably have had a lot of renderings submitted but are analyzing them and looking over them to choose the right one relative to cost and appearance, and of course other factors that are relative to making that choice. Can't wait until they release it. I hope it is tall, a new icon for the skyline height and appearance wise, and maybe will include parking on the lower floors, something Jax hasn't done much of with its tall buildings and towers. I believe we're close to hearing something from them...we shall see.
Quote from: heights unknown on July 15, 2018, 03:55:50 PMHaven't heard anything yet; nothing. And believe me, I've been looking. Just a hunch, but it's been a little over a year now since they announced this, so they've gotta be close to releasing THE rendering to the public. They probably have had a lot of renderings submitted but are analyzing them and looking over them to choose the right one relative to cost and appearance, and of course other factors that are relative to making that choice. Can't wait until they release it. I hope it is tall, a new icon for the skyline height and appearance wise, and maybe will include parking on the lower floors, something Jax hasn't done much of with its tall buildings and towers. I believe we're close to hearing something from them...we shall see.
I think you might be disappointed, unfortunately.
JEA hasn't even decided where to build yet, let alone what to build.
The first stage of the project, long before CBRE and the JEA solicit bids for any type of design, is conducting a feasibility study of the proposed parcel discussed for construction.
As in, is the parking lot at 325 West Adams that the JEA wants to swap the city for suitable for construction, does the area meet the JEA's other logistical and business needs, and will the parcel allow for whatever growth JEA has planned in the next 50 years.
There's no indication of if or when that study will be complete, or even if it's been formally started.
Once that's complete, then the JEA needs to formally negotiate the land swap with the city.
Then, and only then, will JEA/CBRE solicit bids for construction and design.
Quote from: KenFSU on July 15, 2018, 05:32:20 PM
Quote from: heights unknown on July 15, 2018, 03:55:50 PMHaven't heard anything yet; nothing. And believe me, I've been looking. Just a hunch, but it's been a little over a year now since they announced this, so they've gotta be close to releasing THE rendering to the public. They probably have had a lot of renderings submitted but are analyzing them and looking over them to choose the right one relative to cost and appearance, and of course other factors that are relative to making that choice. Can't wait until they release it. I hope it is tall, a new icon for the skyline height and appearance wise, and maybe will include parking on the lower floors, something Jax hasn't done much of with its tall buildings and towers. I believe we're close to hearing something from them...we shall see.
I think you might be disappointed, unfortunately.
JEA hasn't even decided where to build yet, let alone what to build.
The first stage of the project, long before CBRE and the JEA solicit bids for any type of design, is conducting a feasibility study of the proposed parcel discussed for construction.
As in, is the parking lot at 325 West Adams that the JEA wants to swap the city for suitable for construction, does the area meet the JEA's other logistical and business needs, and will the parcel allow for whatever growth JEA has planned in the next 50 years.
There's no indication of if or when that study will be complete, or even if it's been formally started.
Once that's complete, then the JEA needs to formally negotiate the land swap with the city.
Then, and only then, will JEA/CBRE solicit bids for construction and design.
Thanks Ken; had completely forgot about the land swap. I hope something starts to happen soon, if not, oh well, there's other goody things happening downtown.
photo credit: JDR's David Cawton
Here are some early renderings and potential sites for JEA's HQ downtown. A few options to consider including Lot J as the CFO of the Jaguars is on JEA's board.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjXm4PDU4AIT0Uw.jpg:large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjXuDmZXcAUYhkD.jpg:large)
Quote from: heights unknown on July 16, 2018, 11:07:58 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on July 15, 2018, 05:32:20 PM
Quote from: heights unknown on July 15, 2018, 03:55:50 PMHaven't heard anything yet; nothing. And believe me, I've been looking. Just a hunch, but it's been a little over a year now since they announced this, so they've gotta be close to releasing THE rendering to the public. They probably have had a lot of renderings submitted but are analyzing them and looking over them to choose the right one relative to cost and appearance, and of course other factors that are relative to making that choice. Can't wait until they release it. I hope it is tall, a new icon for the skyline height and appearance wise, and maybe will include parking on the lower floors, something Jax hasn't done much of with its tall buildings and towers. I believe we're close to hearing something from them...we shall see.
I think you might be disappointed, unfortunately.
JEA hasn't even decided where to build yet, let alone what to build.
The first stage of the project, long before CBRE and the JEA solicit bids for any type of design, is conducting a feasibility study of the proposed parcel discussed for construction.
As in, is the parking lot at 325 West Adams that the JEA wants to swap the city for suitable for construction, does the area meet the JEA's other logistical and business needs, and will the parcel allow for whatever growth JEA has planned in the next 50 years.
There's no indication of if or when that study will be complete, or even if it's been formally started.
Once that's complete, then the JEA needs to formally negotiate the land swap with the city.
Then, and only then, will JEA/CBRE solicit bids for construction and design.
Thanks Ken; had completely forgot about the land swap. I hope something starts to happen soon, if not, oh well, there's other goody things happening downtown.
Good call Heights! I was wrong!
The four block development is interesting.
Block 48 isn't very interesting.
Lot J is going to be the x-factor.
I think Curry, Khan, and Lamping are going to push hard for it, but with how closely JEA works with the city, I think it would be hard to give up that proximity..
So in one option they show needing one block, then the next optionrequires 4 blocks? :o That stretch between Ocean and Main could really use some reviatalization though.
Is it just me, or do each of these renderings look very mid-1960s in style?
And do any of them provide for street interaction?
I think the new HQ needs to stay in the core. Lot J rendering looks very suburbia. Lot J should focus around entertainment and nightlife rather than Class A office.
I can see the JEA HQ looking similar to Tulsa's city hall on a slightly smaller scale. Also, the parking garage needs some better design elements which I know this is the first design but it really needs some work.
(https://www.emporis.com/images/show/254579-Large-fullheightview-view-from-the-southeast.jpg)
The four-block option would be a potentially mixed-use co-development led by Steve Atkins.
Kinda love the idea.
Quote from: KenFSU on July 30, 2018, 03:21:04 PM
The four-block option would be a potentially mixed-use co-development led by Steve Atkins.
Kinda love the idea.
Well that is kind of cool then. Makes a lot more sense now ;D
Quote from: KenFSU on July 30, 2018, 03:21:04 PM
The four-block option would be a potentially mixed-use co-development led by Steve Atkins.
Kinda love the idea.
That would be nice
Out of these, the four block mixed use project is superior. However, I'd take Block 48 over Lot J. Lot J would be such a waste, IMO. DT would be better off with JEA staying in the actual core. What the Jags want to do should build upon downtown, not directly compete against it.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 30, 2018, 04:40:46 PM
Out of these, the four block mixed use project is superior. However, I'd take Block 48 over Lot J. Lot J would be such a waste, IMO. DT would be better off with JEA staying in the actual core. What the Jags want to do should build upon downtown, not directly compete against it.
I agree, additionally the four block option may allow some of the core development from the CBD to spill into the church district and Elbow. However, it was very difficult to tell exactly what they were proposing on each block, but I realize it is all preliminary at this point.
^It's a retrofit of the current building, with three additional parcels.
Two other options being considered include moving to the BOA Tower or One Enterprise Center.
Interesting that the land swap is apparently off, and JEA wants to buy that property outright if it decides on it. Hopefully this allows the old tower to avoid the wrecking ball if JEA relocates.
The sketch doesn't look like a retrofit. That tower isn't in the same location as the existing tower. It looks like a new tower on the east side of Main Street.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 30, 2018, 08:28:51 PM
The sketch doesn't look like a retrofit. That tower isn't in the same location as the existing tower. It looks like a new tower on the east side of Main Street.
Agreed, the sketch doesn't match the project description.
Here's the retrofit source:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jea-considering-five-new-headquarters-sites
Edit: Actually, looking really closely at it, I think it is the existing tower, with a garage added where the existing customer service center is, some additional space added on, the revolving restaurant converted into a squared off top level, and additional mixed use buildings going toward the cathedral district.
The JDR article literally says:
QuoteFour-block footprint: A proposal by developer Steve Atkins would retrofit and expand the utility's current headquarters at 21 W. Church St.
Atkins' project calls for JEA's current headquarters to be retrofitted and expanded. In addition to JEA's West Church Street parcel, renderings show three more sites between Main, Ocean, Monroe and Ashley streets developed into mixed-use.
Oh I did read the article. I'm just saying that sketch doesn't show the current headquarters being retrofitted and expanded. The existing tower is in the middle of the block. That tower in the rendering isn't. So while they may be proposing to retrofit, they aren't picking up a 19 story building and moving it.
Here's a sketch of the proposed 1980s downtown galleria mall they never built. It was proposed when May Cohens and Ivey's were still around. Take a look at the Universal Marion site. The square in the middle of the block is the tower.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/downtown_frankenstein/1971_master_plan/hemming-plaza-plan.jpg)
Now match that up with the sketch below. Take note of the tower being located on the corner of the block. If that block were the current building site, the tower would be sitting on top of the old Ivey's building:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjXuDmZXcAUYhkD.jpg:large)
Also take a look at the site plan. The tower in the sketch is site 2 between Main and Ocean. Look close and you'll even see the green rooftop courtyard. There's also a ped overpass between sites 3 and 4 on the plan and you can see it in the perspective rendering. So the current Universal Marion site in the sketch is site 1.
^Yep, totally see what you're talking about after you pointed out the rooftop courtyard. Pretty sure you're right and the Daily Record caption is wrong.
Even without full details, I think the Atkins plan is the most exciting by a mile. Mixed used, and with how aggressively he's been looking for more multifamily residential downtown, you've got to think that will be a component of the plan.
Worse case scenario is Lot J.
It's not a central location for JEA or its customers. It's not good for downtown, removing 800 bodies from the CBD. And I'd argue that it's not even good for Shad Khan, as culturally, JEA is pretty much the opposite of the live/work/party crowd they want to appeal to.
Quote from: KenFSU on July 30, 2018, 02:27:41 PM
Quote from: heights unknown on July 16, 2018, 11:07:58 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on July 15, 2018, 05:32:20 PM
Quote from: heights unknown on July 15, 2018, 03:55:50 PMHaven't heard anything yet; nothing. And believe me, I've been looking. Just a hunch, but it's been a little over a year now since they announced this, so they've gotta be close to releasing THE rendering to the public. They probably have had a lot of renderings submitted but are analyzing them and looking over them to choose the right one relative to cost and appearance, and of course other factors that are relative to making that choice. Can't wait until they release it. I hope it is tall, a new icon for the skyline height and appearance wise, and maybe will include parking on the lower floors, something Jax hasn't done much of with its tall buildings and towers. I believe we're close to hearing something from them...we shall see.
I think you might be disappointed, unfortunately.
JEA hasn't even decided where to build yet, let alone what to build.
The first stage of the project, long before CBRE and the JEA solicit bids for any type of design, is conducting a feasibility study of the proposed parcel discussed for construction.
As in, is the parking lot at 325 West Adams that the JEA wants to swap the city for suitable for construction, does the area meet the JEA's other logistical and business needs, and will the parcel allow for whatever growth JEA has planned in the next 50 years.
There's no indication of if or when that study will be complete, or even if it's been formally started.
Once that's complete, then the JEA needs to formally negotiate the land swap with the city.
Then, and only then, will JEA/CBRE solicit bids for construction and design.
Thanks Ken; had completely forgot about the land swap. I hope something starts to happen soon, if not, oh well, there's other goody things happening downtown.
Good call Heights! I was wrong!
The four block development is interesting.
Block 48 isn't very interesting.
Lot J is going to be the x-factor.
I think Curry, Khan, and Lamping are going to push hard for it, but with how closely JEA works with the city, I think it would be hard to give up that proximity..
Thanks; I got lucky; it was just a hunch. But to be honest, I do not like those renderings. I know these are NOT final and there's got to be other renderings out there; this can't be final.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 30, 2018, 04:40:46 PM
Out of these, the four block mixed use project is superior. However, I'd take Block 48 over Lot J. Lot J would be such a waste, IMO. DT would be better off with JEA staying in the actual core. What the Jags want to do should build upon downtown, not directly compete against it.
Yes Lakelander...my sentiments as well, keep JEA in the CBD/Urban core, not displaced away in or near the entertainment district in and around the jags; jags are entertainment, keep it that way, when you get past metro park and up near the landing, that's urban core. That other space near the courthouse seems good to me. Hope that this rendering is the first of many. Jax needs to stop being so retro, old boy, and "in a box," and move up to the sky and be the city of a million people that consolidation says it is. And yes people make a city, but indicative of a city of close to a million people is a dramatic and awesome skyline; so let's bust ass and get moving Jax!
Come on people... nothing says entertainment district like the JEA. Maybe they will change their name to the Jacksonville Entertainment Authority.
Quote from: exnewsman on July 31, 2018, 09:50:59 AM
Come on people... nothing says entertainment district like the JEA. Maybe they will change their name to the Jacksonville Entertainment Authority.
I think they took their tour of the Kansas City Power & Light District a little too literally.
Quote from: exnewsman on July 31, 2018, 09:50:59 AM
Come on people... nothing says entertainment district like the JEA. Maybe they will change their name to the Jacksonville Entertainment Authority.
LOLOLOLOL...Jacksonville Entertainment Authority; Hahaha...I like that, that's funny. If they move into the stadium entertainment area and district, that's what they should call themselves.
It will be interesting if Khan's plan can't attract Vystar or JEA.
^ Vystar purchased the current SunTrust building today.
Quote from: Kerry on July 31, 2018, 03:24:28 PM
It will be interesting if Khan's plan can't attract Vystar or JEA.
Why? It makes no sense for either of them to be there, unless Khan or COJ is giving them millions in incentives to anchor that project.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 31, 2018, 07:34:44 PM
Quote from: Kerry on July 31, 2018, 03:24:28 PM
It will be interesting if Khan's plan can't attract Vystar or JEA.
Why? It makes no sense for either of them to be there, unless Khan or COJ is giving them millions in incentives to anchor that project.
Having a bland office building with tons of parking needs and no street level retail makes no sense for a supposed entertainment area. Khan would be better served to ride the real demand for residential and hotel rooms downtown. I really hope Adkins proposal wins out but I fear JEA's backwards thinking will prevail and they will build some bland suburbanesque office building downtown.
Quote from: itsfantastic1 on July 31, 2018, 10:24:03 AM
Quote from: exnewsman on July 31, 2018, 09:50:59 AM
Come on people... nothing says entertainment district like the JEA. Maybe they will change their name to the Jacksonville Entertainment Authority.
I think they took their tour of the Kansas City Power & Light District a little too literally.
I was actually in Kansas City over the weekend for the first time. They have a very good downtown setup.
Quote from: Kerry on July 31, 2018, 03:24:28 PM
It will be interesting if Khan's plan can't attract Vystar or JEA.
I think Kerry's point is around whether or not Lot J makes sense as an office use if VyStar and JEA turn it down. My honest feeling is that who cares?
Plus, there hasn't been a lot of negative downtown news lately which is why Kerry has just posted for the first time in a little while:)
RFP for a new headquarters went out this week.
JEA board to discuss updates on site search on Tuesday.
Preliminary evaluation of responses in December, final selection in January.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jea-board-of-directors-to-get-update-on-headquarters-search
Word on the street is that there's a strong internal divide between staying in the core and being the anchor tenant of the Lot J development.
I love the Atkins plan, and it keeps close to a 1,000 jobs in the CBD, but if I was betting $1 million of my own money on the decision, I'd put every penny on Lot J.
Seems to be the way the wind is blowing, and I think it's more than a bit telling that a decision that was supposed to be made a long time ago now has a timeline that almost exactly coincides with the Jags' negotiations of an economic development agreement with the city for Lot J.
We'll see what happens.
Silver lining is that, either way, Atkins is eyeing another three to floor blocks downtown regardless, even if his JEA proposal isn't chosen.
Good; here we go...now we're cooking with a pressure cooker. If Atkins loses out with his plan, what is it that he is eyeing to do in that area?
Quote from: heights unknown on October 12, 2018, 09:31:05 PM
If Atkins loses out with his plan, what is it that he is eyeing to do in that area?
The Atkins plan is less a plan specifically for JEA, and more a post-Trio Phase II plan by Atkins that may or may not ultimately involve JEA.
The backbone of the plan is 500-600 more multifamily residential units and 100,000 square feet of retail spread across three to four city blocks. If JEA chooses Lot J, I think Atkins just foregos the office component and sticks to residential, retail (I could see Atkins being the first one to bring a name urban grocer downtown), and possibly another small hotel.
A little more information about the RFP here (sorry, it's paywall'd).
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/10/17/jea-begins-search-for-class-a-office-space.html
Only real thing of note in the article is that in addition to the 836 admin jobs being relocated, JEA is also looking at potentially moving around 130 other offsite call center/customer care-ish jobs to the new headquarters as well.
In total, we're likely looking at closer to 1,000 employees.