Someone
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on January 16, 2017, 04:19:22 PM
Someone was just shot in front of the Landing. I could see him from my office window, just laying there bleeding.
[/quot
Hopefully you did more than just start this thread
More info: http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/crime/2-people-shot-in-front-of-jacksonville-landing-police-say/386455577
http://www.news4jax.com/news/police-reports-of-2-shot-at-jacksonville-landing (http://www.news4jax.com/news/police-reports-of-2-shot-at-jacksonville-landing)
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on January 16, 2017, 04:57:49 PM
I am, in fact, a dude. I have no idea what happened, the sexes or races of the perpetrator(s) or victims. If only there had been a good guy with a gun there to shoot someone else.
apology for the she ... so you were able to see someone laying on the ground with blood and tell it was a guy who had been shot but you couldn't make out the color of their skin or how old they were approximately?
what kind of clothes were they wearing?
news4jax - "...That witness said the two victims walked up to a police officer and asked for protection because it was "fixing to go down." Right after that, gunshots rang out and everyone scattered, the witness said."
"Another source said both victims are believed to be teenagers and that one was shot in the face and the other was hit in the foot."
ANJ said there were comments on Facebook about avoiding the landing because it was going to go down.
JSO spokesperson just said it's one of the safest zones. Still, this won't help the soccer mom at the town center feel better about coming downtown.
Jso reporting possible connection to Art Walk shootings.
Quote from: edjax on January 16, 2017, 07:22:25 PM
Jso reporting possible connection to Art Walk shootings.
The Connection made.We are on our way to predominant black Duval.
Interesting to view FTU web site- scroll W A Y D o W N to this news item,see Nocatee sites.
Past hand-joining between MJ & FTU telling. Even back then.
Happy MLK day.
As a data scientist/stastician by trade, I certainly know that two random incidents do not equal a trend. That said, what's going on here? Two shootings in one month, potentially involving the same crew(s). Is this a new thing, teenage street gangs hanging out in the urban core? Not a loaded question, I haven't been down that way in a while and I'm genuinely curious, as I'm not used to seeing that demographic randomly loitering in the central business district.
I'm honestly surprised at how many openly bigoted people there are on this forum.
I guess no good guys with a gun were present
Quote from: Adam White on January 17, 2017, 03:16:53 AM
I'm honestly surprised at how many openly bigoted people there are on this forum.
Yeah, it's sad really. Seems like every thread becomes an opportunity for people to voice the same stuff over and over again. In this thread, gun control and black crime.
Unfortunately, there is a significant portion of the population that doesn't want to live within the boundaries of societal norms that most of us agree to live by in order to have a safe and functioning society.
Quote from: Kerry on January 17, 2017, 09:03:09 AM
Unfortunately, there is a significant portion of the population that doesn't want to live within the boundaries of societal norms that most of us agree to live by in order to have a safe and functioning society.
True, but it is their constitutional prerogative to continue to lobby for even looser gun regulations.
Quote from: KenFSU on January 17, 2017, 12:29:51 AM
As a data scientist/stastician by trade, I certainly know that two random incidents do not equal a trend. That said, what's going on here? Two shootings in one month, potentially involving the same crew(s). Is this a new thing, teenage street gangs hanging out in the urban core? Not a loaded question, I haven't been down that way in a while and I'm genuinely curious, as I'm not used to seeing that demographic randomly loitering in the central business district.
I feel like JSO will find this whole thing online. Knowing the ages of the victims of this shooting and the last, I'm sure they and the suspects squabbled n Facebook and Twitter before this went out to the streets. I don't think this will be a trend going forward but it is surprising how public these events were.
Between these two shootings and the massive fight at the Landing NYE, this may cause huge damage to public perception. Art Walk may be well down. This is not good at all. I can't believe there is no patrol cars or visible police presence out front at all times now. That may not have stopped it but it may very well have as well.
Anyone know the CCTV situation in DT? Do we even have a CCTV network?
Quote from: stephendare on January 17, 2017, 11:05:32 AM
Quote from: jlmann on January 17, 2017, 09:45:52 AM
not to sound all APL, but this is truly something i struggle to get my head around:
we seem to have a fairly representative group here as far as our polarized society. one group who says "uh huh, black on black crime. see i told you racism isn't the problem." and another who says "this has nothing to do with race. put your white paranoia away."
But how do we talk about the art walk shooting? And this one if related?
the art walk shooting was almost certainly over drugs. it's not much of a leap to then say there was likely at least a tangential gang connection.
now the landing: people knowing something was fixin to go down suggests quite strongly drugs/gang conncection and the like were involved again.
I promise I'm not trying to pose some gotcha question, but Stephen and anyone who shares his reaction to these events ("we don't know- quit jumping to conclusions"), I'm truly curious: When people (who sure seem racist- i'll give you that) say "Oh another drug/gang realted black on black crime incident. figures."
I get that it's a response rooted in racist stereotypes, but what about when it actually is drug/gang related black on black crime?
wondering how non racists frame these events mentally, because a big lebowski quote keeps comes to mind these days "you're not wrong, you're just an asshole"
most crime is same race on same race, because that is how our society is largely divided. White on white crime, black on black crime, asian on asian crime etc.
its silly to pretend that this is a special and separate problem. Like rich on rich crime, or poor pn poor crime.
Really its just crime. People committing a crime.
The largest demographic of people murdered in jacksonville is male: last year it was 76%. The largest instrument of death was by gun (75%).
Are these things meaningful? Would it be helpful for example to point to the proximity of men betting on fantasy football leagues in large groups and illegally paying out their gambling debts as a correlative fact? They are certainly committing a crime. http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/Florida/. In fact I think that we have all probably witnessed this crime being committed on the forums.
Does it result in homicide? Sometimes. http://thebiglead.com/2013/07/25/baltimore-man-convicted-of-murder-after-killing-man-with-a-sword-over-a-football-debt/
Is downtown jacksonville teeming with murderous fantasy football gangs then? Probably not.
And yet we have to listen to similarly fabulist speculation all the time.
Are there groups of kids selling drugs who start killing each other over the money? Yeppers. You bet. But its crime related, not race related.
Like the guy who got murdered at the blind rabbit in Riverside. Was it because he was involved with drug debts? Or was it because he was affiliated with white people?
Or when the son of one of jacksonville's wealthiest and most respected families got arrested in a crack den off talleyrand? Was it from his whiteness, the prositutes asian heritage or the blackness of the crack dealer who got arrested (the rival dealer was latino) And I hate to use John's story in this argument, Ive always liked him, and his brother a lot, but it is a perfect demonstration in this context.
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-09-18/story/crack-addicted-jacksonville-man-privilege-denies-role-womans-death
QuoteCrack-addicted Jacksonville man of privilege denies role in woman's death
The drug user: 'I'm not responsible for her death. I did not fire a gun.' The widower: 'His desire for drugs has cost me my wife and my kids their mother'
Bruce Lipsky
A stray bullet blasted into Analiza Gobaton's head through her side window as she drove on a cool Jacksonville morning last October. She never got to the awards program at her kids' school two blocks away.
The gunfire erupted between rival drug dealers delivering John Reilly Schultz his next order of crack cocaine. They arrived about the same time at a ramshackle drug den on Transylvania Avenue, where Schultz had smoked crack a half-dozen times before that day. Schultz's supplier met the dealers outside just before the street war began.
Schultz bolted out back as one dealer fired at the other driving down the street, which runs into Blanding Boulevard. That's where Gobaton got caught in the middle.
Gobaton, a 41-year-old nurse and mother of three, died two days later.
Schultz, a real estate developer and member of a prominent Jacksonville family, escaped unharmed and wasn't charged, newly released police records show. But trouble had been tailing him for years.
His periodic crack binges, which Schultz said have been separated by long stretches of sobriety, escalated in 2010. Crack use is detailed in arrests last year for domestic violence, spousal injunctions, hospitalizations under the state's Baker Act and other police reports.
Schultz, 47, also was arrested two months after Gobaton's October slaying when police found crack in his $500,000 Ortega home. He told the Times-Union Friday that he last used the drug in July in contempt of drug court, a treatment-based program where prosecutors diverted the crack case.
The trouble continues haunting his family, whose late patriarch, Fred Schultz, was among Jacksonville's leading civic leaders and education advocates. Schultz, once speaker of the Florida House and vice chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, died of prostate cancer in late 2009.
John Schultz's mother and a brother said they are especially upset over Gobaton's death and his being mentioned in the case. But he refuses to accept any blame for what happened.
"It's a real tragedy," Schultz said Friday after his latest trip to drug court. "But I'm not responsible for her death. I did not fire a gun."
Widower John Gobaton, whose children are 4, 11 and 14, said Schultz and three other people inside the drug house that day should be held accountable. The only person charged in the case, Taurice Brown, is awaiting trial.
"His [Schultz's] desire to satisfy his drug habit has cost me my wife and my kids their mother," said Gobaton, 41.
Schultz said he has never reached out to Gobaton's family.
"I wouldn't expect they would want to see me," he said.
A privileged, troubled life
Schultz, the youngest of four children, graduated from the University of Florida and became a real estate developer responsible for dozens of shopping centers, subdivisions and other properties in the Jacksonville area. He also remains president of his father's investment business, known as Schultz Investments.
Schultz said his recreational crack use in the 1980s escalated into the next decade. He said he became sober in 1997 and relapsed briefly over marital problems in 2004. He said he relapsed again in late 2009 just after the death of his father, who encouraged him to kick his drug habit. Financial and marital issues also played a role, he said.
Schultz said he has had periodic binges since.
"It was a bigger blow to me than I thought it would be," Schultz said of his father's death.
Asked what his father would say today, Schultz said, "I think he would have been very disappointed, to say the least."
Schultz said he has sought treatment for his addiction over the years, but too much stress can send him over the edge.
"I don't feel I'm a bad guy trying to get good," he said. "I feel like I'm a sick guy trying to get well."
Jacksonville Bank CEO Price Schwenck said Schultz had a sharp financial mind and always appeared prepared and sober at the monthly board meetings. Schultz was an original board member when the bank opened in 1999 and resigned in November 2010 for personal reasons after months of medical leave.
Schwenck said he heard rumors of Schultz's drug problem but never discussed it with him. Schultz said he never came to a board meeting on drugs.
"He was a good business companion and board member," Schwenck said. "My heart goes out to him and his family if he has that kind of problem."
Clifford Schultz describes his brother as a "pillar of strength" in their family and a generous and compassionate man when not using drugs. Clifford Schultz, 54, said he doesn't hold his brother responsible for what happened to Gobaton.
"He hasn't committed any crimes except the crime of being addicted to crack cocaine," Clifford Schultz said.
Along with his arrest in December for crack possession, court records show that John Schultz received 12 months' probation after pleading guilty to domestic battery last year and had another domestic battery case dropped. He said he has hit his current wife, including once when she was holding one of their twin toddlers, and that most of their arguing involved his drug use.
"I'm not proud of it," he said of the toddler incident.
Schultz's fourth and current wife, Kimberly Schultz, declined to comment. His mother, Nancy Schultz, called her son "a wonderful, fine man." Schultz and his family said they are worried about retributions he may face over news of his past, but he said that won't keep him from fighting to stay sober.
Obviously, it is just crime.
People like you are the reason why crime exists in the abundance it does - because you make excuses to fit your ideology, to the detriment of everyone else.
Quote from: Dapperdan on January 17, 2017, 11:16:55 AM
Between these two shootings and the massive fight at the Landing NYE, this may cause huge damage to public perception. Art Walk may be well down. This is not good at all. I can't believe there is no patrol cars or visible police presence out front at all times now. That may not have stopped it but it may very well have as well.
Anyone know the CCTV situation in DT? Do we even have a CCTV network?
you should watch the news - officers were at the landing as the shooting happened and they were collecting video evidence from cameras
Quote from: stephendare on January 17, 2017, 11:22:18 AM
Quote from: Dapperdan on January 17, 2017, 11:16:55 AM
Between these two shootings and the massive fight at the Landing NYE, this may cause huge damage to public perception. Art Walk may be well down. This is not good at all. I can't believe there is no patrol cars or visible police presence out front at all times now. That may not have stopped it but it may very well have as well.
Anyone know the CCTV situation in DT? Do we even have a CCTV network?
meh. Five Points had similar events a few years back (a 4th of July riot a guy getting his nose sliced off by a crazy person who was then shot dead in the street by one of the merchants followed by a dj who got his eyes cut out of his head. Doesnt seem to have cause the neighborhood much damage.
But you above all should know what most people thought of DT even before these events. I am just saying these will not help at all. I have heard multiple people say they will never go to the Landing or surrounding areas again.
Quote from: aldermanparklover on January 17, 2017, 11:26:38 AM
Quote from: Dapperdan on January 17, 2017, 11:16:55 AM
Between these two shootings and the massive fight at the Landing NYE, this may cause huge damage to public perception. Art Walk may be well down. This is not good at all. I can't believe there is no patrol cars or visible police presence out front at all times now. That may not have stopped it but it may very well have as well.
Anyone know the CCTV situation in DT? Do we even have a CCTV network?
you should watch the news - officers were at the landing as the shooting happened and they were collecting video evidence from cameras
I don't watch news anymore, nore do I know anyone who does. I do read about it on Twitter or FB, and what I read said there were two off duty officers inside that came running out AFTER they heard shots fired. My point is that all these incidents have basically occurred right around the Laura street/ Landing Entrance area. There should be visible presence there from now on to when it is not needed anymore. They also said they were reviewing business cameras. If they mentioned city cameras, then I missed that part. Our city just doesn't seem like a city that has an extensive network of CCTV to help catch criminals.
http://static.jacksonville.com/homicidetracker/index.html
Quote from: jlmann on January 17, 2017, 11:32:46 AM
if trailers with meth labs were burning down left and right and they were 99% poor white people, i think we could have an intelligent discussion about why that is? what does it say about the state of politics, society and culture? in fact, no one would bat an eye to have such a discussion.
but if any participants are black? oh, it's just crime. indicative of nothing else.
when henry louis gates jr states that some issues facing the black community are behavioral as well as structural you'd think you could at least have an honest discussion whereby you state the obvious fact that this occurs often in Jax and at least 80%+ of the time the participants share a lot in the demo dept.
BINGO
When was the last homicide downtown? Seems like it's been years.
Quote from: jlmann on January 17, 2017, 12:07:01 PM
ok fine. you do this all the time and see no issue until brown people are involved, but I really don't know why you cant see the inconsistency.
your comment on the pride parade:
QuoteIts an LGBT event, so obviously there has already been a good amount of drama behind the scenes.
Stephen, not all gay people are melodramatic queens. you might want to talk to some.
See how absurd that would be of me?
You cannot be rationale with a crazed person - there are some people who believe an ideology so rigidly, it prevents them from taking in new information as valuable if it doesn't fit their belief system.
You see the same thing with religious people mostly.
Quote from: stephendare on January 17, 2017, 12:53:55 PM
Crime is crime. There is no inherent link to race.
Maybe not race directly - but there is definitely a cultural component. That is why two people with the same skin color but different cultural settings can have two different propensities to commit crimes, and the type of crime committed. However, it is just a part of the equation because two people with the same skin color and same cultural environment can also produce two different results.
Quote from: jlmann on January 17, 2017, 12:43:26 PM
well, is there enough coffee for you to explain why LGBT events are well known for their drama without using LGBT stereotypes?
Hopefully considering there's a Maxwell House factory downtown ... but we may need reinforcements
^Crime is not inherently racial or cultural. It's socioeconomic. Being black, hispanic, Asian, or whatever does not make one more likely to engage in criminal activity. Being poor does. Most of the "black on black" or "white on white" or "Asian on Asian" violence referenced in this thread can more easily be explained as "poor on poor."
In fact, among the statistical community, the widely held belief is that - if controlling for socioeconomic factors - blacks aren't any more likely to commit crime as whites.
It's easy to point your finger at a situation like this and be all, "typical black people," but it's much harder to drill down deeper and consider underlying issues like single parenting, lack of education in the community, concentrated disadvantage, a criminal justice system that doesn't treat races equally, immigration, drug abuse, public transportation, geographic segregation, etc.
Inertia's a thing, and it's incredibly difficult to slow down a vicious cycle of inequality that has been full-speed ahead since the birth of our nation.
Sure, you could throw them everyone in jail, or "kill them in the streets" as some lovely commenters suggested on the T-U site, but it ain't gonna solve the underlying issue.
Well said KenFSU!
On second thought - never mind.