Downtown's Doro District Secures Parking
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Amidst a sea of parking, the owners of downtown's Doro District and the Downtown Investment Authority finally secure a short term parking solution. Project is positioned to transform long-dormant area around sports facilities into a vibrant commercial corridor much like San Diego's Gaslamp Quarter heading into 2017.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2017-jan-downtowns-doro-district-secures-parking-
Parking... as far as the eye can see... yet... no parking. This is good news...
Super excited about that new dock!! Breweries are great, but breweries by boat are WAY better.
Good to see. Whenever I am in that area, I wonder about that Fairgrounds property across from the baseball field. It seems like a waste.
exciting times ahead for this entire area done with a local flavor. That's how you do it.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on January 11, 2017, 10:17:59 AM
Could someone explain how this will be a "district" and mot more than Manifest, Intuition, and whatever Doro does? There's literally no other buildings down there, it isn't close enough to downtown so that people would potentially bar hop, etc.
I want to believe, but seems like people are just like, "New shit! yeah! It's totally going to become something that all the facts point to it not being!"
The buildings of the Doro "District" take up a full city block, plus the building with Intuition and Manifest which takes up most of a block by itself. I'd consider them more additions to the wider stadium complex.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on January 11, 2017, 10:17:59 AM
Could someone explain how this will be a "district" and mot more than Manifest, Intuition, and whatever Doro does? There's literally no other buildings down there, it isn't close enough to downtown so that people would potentially bar hop, etc.
I want to believe, but seems like people are just like, "New shit! yeah! It's totally going to become something that all the facts point to it not being!"
I agree somewhat, but as I'm sure you're completely aware, the people putting the time & money into the area have a pretty successful track record so far, they're all complete homers for the most part and it's gotta start somewhere.
Intuition is a solid anchor that will generate it's own foot traffic without anything else going on in the area. Between the 3 stadiums/areana and with an amphitheater coming online, I would guess that the area will have an event most every night, year round.
I can't help but be somewhat optimistic, but I'm trying to not be overly.
Great news, wonderful project, and I love the emphasis on local business.
Awesome write-up too, Ennis and Mike.
Couple of questions:
1) Any chance that the stretch of East Forsyth between Intuition and the Doro Fixtures complex becomes pedestrian only?
2) What does the pedestrian walkway to the river that you noted entail? A sidewalk? Something fancier? I like the idea in theory, but isn't it cutting directly through Shipyards property that's up for redevelopment?
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on January 11, 2017, 10:17:59 AM
Could someone explain how this will be a "district" and mot more than Manifest, Intuition, and whatever Doro does? There's literally no other buildings down there, it isn't close enough to downtown so that people would potentially bar hop, etc.
Quotedistrict
/ˈdɪstrɪkt/
noun
1.
an area of land marked off for administrative or other purposes
(as modifier): district nurse
2.
a locality separated by geographical attributes; region
3.
any subdivision of any territory, region, etc
Essentially, a district is a cluster of complementing activity or attributes. The proposed Doro District, in and of itself, is two square blocks of space for potential clustering of complementing activity.
QuoteCould someone explain how this will be a "district" and mot more than Manifest, Intuition, and whatever Doro does? There's literally no other buildings down there, it isn't close enough to downtown so that people would potentially bar hop, etc.
I want to believe, but seems like people are just like, "New shit! yeah! It's totally going to become something that all the facts point to it not being!"
I think its important to note a few things.
a) The owners of the buildings along A Philip Randolph (APR) are not involved in a hype machine. They are very deliberately acquiring buildings and curating a mix of uses and tenants (which you will hear more about in 2017) that are complementary in nature in a compact setting.
b) If some of the articles posted on Modern Cities come off as hype, then I would like to personally apologize for being responsible for any kind of 'spin' inadvertently inherent within these pieces. Instead, the intent is to take a deeper dive into how APR is developing and how private business owners are finding success despite several obstacles. These obstacles include, but are not limited, to having to deal with the perception that APR would never work again (see efforts to 'revitalize' the area dating to the Delaney administration http://www.coj.net/departments/planning-and-development/docs/community-planning-division/plans-and-studies/east-jax-nap.aspx (http://www.coj.net/departments/planning-and-development/docs/community-planning-division/plans-and-studies/east-jax-nap.aspx) and the Peyton administration http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-jul-a-philip-randolph-creating-a-vibrant-corridor (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-jul-a-philip-randolph-creating-a-vibrant-corridor)), dealing with having no parking despite being surrounded by a sea of parking (the purpose of this article, which quite frankly is relevant to any of the urban core's commercial areas where available, unused parking supply isn't unbundled as part of a comprehensive parking management strategy) and being on the eastern edge of the Northbank without a walkable environment to connect the two areas.
At least to me, its very interesting to follow the challenges, tribulations, etc of an area that is in the early stages of a transformation as they unfold in real time. Its easy to look back, form an opinion and comment on say, King Street, 10 years later... but its another thing to work through issues as they happen and establish a record of theories, mindsets, etc in order to establish context.
c) Because of the interest shown by Iconic and businesses like Intution, BLK SHP and Manifest, there are other buildings and properties in and around Doro that are garnering interest from other parties. The Noland Building still has space for another tenant. The Doro Fixtures Building will be redeveloped. There are other properties in the area that will likely see another 'higher and greater' use in the short term. And in the long term, whatever happens to the Shipyards/Metro Park properties will have a dramatic effect on what this area will look like in 10 years. Personally, having been involved in this line of work for 15 years.. mega developments aren't something you count on. In 3 years, it is VERY likely that the CRE market goes through a completely different cycle that would halt work on a Shipyards-esque megadevelopment. But, I'm certain that the incremental development that is occurring now won't be affected by a slowdown in CRE activity... as it will already have been built up when we enter into the next corrective CRE cycle.
d) Let's assume that the fact that people travel to Intuition outside of events being held at one of the city-owned sports and entertainment facilities is a small 'win'. I for one, don't consider it a 'small win' that people would travel out of their way and deal with the hassles of finding non-existent parking in a sea of blocked off and dormant taxpayer-owned parking just to grab a burger at BLK SHP and a beer at Intuition.. but I regress. Assuming this is a small win, what other small wins could be a result? Success begets success so is there a chance that, like on King Street or like what is happening now along Edgewood, these small wins lead to more small wins? Possibly. By all indications, Daily's Place is going to add at least another 30-40 event days to the already 180 or so event days in the area. None of the existing business in the area have any problem making money on event days. Add another months' worth of event days.. and how many other businesses would be willing to setup shop in the area to capitalize on that foot traffic?
Quote1) Any chance that the stretch of East Forsyth between Intuition and the Doro Fixtures complex becomes pedestrian only?
Not speaking for the developer by any means, but the roadway between the Doro Fixtures building and the Noland building is actually an abandoned Right of Way. You can see from image #36 on this link http://www.moderncities.com/article/2016-jun-george-doro-fixtures-downtowns-next-big-thing/page/3 (http://www.moderncities.com/article/2016-jun-george-doro-fixtures-downtowns-next-big-thing/page/3) that this is a 'private road'. I don't think its any secret to publicly talk about the developer's intent to enhance the building facades in such a way that makes this area a pedestrian-centric block, while using this private roadway as a flexible space that can act as a roadway to serve existing tenants but also be completely closed down on a moment's notice in order to host street parties, etc.
Quote2) What does the pedestrian walkway to the river that you noted entail? A sidewalk? Something fancier? I like the idea in theory, but isn't it cutting directly through Shipyards property that's up for redevelopment?
I have not seen any actual engineering plans. So, anything I say on the subject is purely speculation. Given the dollar figure and the needed improvements to Lot X, my guess is that this winds up being a simple paved sidewalk that connects from the floating dock to APR. A good example would be the sidewalk that leads to Bay Street from the Metro Park marina's water taxi stop (unfortunately, I do not have a picture of that on my phone.. but you should be able to Google Earth the area to get a visual reference).
I would have to suspect that DIA has a pretty good idea of what Khan's new RFP response is going to look like and any designs of said pedestrian pathway will be done in a way that would be easily integrated into whatever happens with that particular parcel (which if Metro Park gets redeveloped, would likely be some sort of public parkland).
Again, speculation only. When the engineering plans become available, I'll certainly post an image.
^Thanks for the insight Mike!
For what it's worth, I really enjoy the tone of Modern Cities. I think the local community has just gotten so accustomed to cynicism that any positive story, especially those centered on urban redevelopment, is automatically viewed as pie-in-the-sky hype.
Yeah, I'd say anything developing on APR, north of the Matthews Bridge expressway would be the Eastside. That strip of APR (formerly Florida Avenue) was once a pretty vibrant district of it's own that was known as The Avenue.
This is going to be so incredibly good. It will be so interesting to see this area develop over the next few years.
To me, A. Phillip Randolph Boulevard -- from the expressway down to the river -- should be double-named. On the street signs along that stretch, also include Florida Avenue. That's what it historically was and that should be acknowledged. It has always been odd to me during the Florida-Georgia game to see "Georgia Street" down next to the stadium but no "Florida Avenue."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the lot that they plan to bring the Hart Bridge Expressway ramps down over? If it is, I wonder if the two projects took each other into account. The date on the rendering for this parking lot is November 3rd, and the Hart Bridge Expressway plan was announced around the 30th of November. I hope they don't interfere with each other.
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http://3o15h033zmpwracwx2i00rqx.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/FullSizeRender-10-3500x1909.jpg (http://3o15h033zmpwracwx2i00rqx.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/FullSizeRender-10-3500x1909.jpg)
Picture and link borrowed from Lake's post in the Hart Bridge ramp removal forum
Area improving for sure!!
Would love to see Khan bring in another big money developer/friend with real world successful track record of improving an area like this, so we get another line of input not just the Khan team. Surely this makes finishing Berkman II a better long term bet for someone, correct? I'm staring to believe a Peninsula type building would be great right in that area, on the water. The views would be spectacular.
Been to Charleston lately? Did a culinary tour of North King St last weekend. 5 years ago the area was a boarded up, dangerous part of town. Now it's young, hip, happenin', all led by start up local restaurant groups, helped by local political commitment. The abandoned building count has been vastly diminished, crime has been pushed out, tourism is through the roof. And they have no equivalent of the Vet, the baseball grounds, or Everbank. If there are enough risk takers, no reason Doro and the rest of the core can't mimic their success. Desperately need more housing units, though. As does Charleston.
This is the kind of positive incremental improvement that leads to better things and we should be just as if not more supportive of them than billion dollar mega projects.
Agree, but IMHO in order for this to work you both need a sufficient stock of (usable) empty buildings, as well as owners either wanting to part with them or rent them out for a reasonable price. Empty lots and overpriced ruins really aren't enablers.
Empty lots are daunting to small-scale development if they have to be eaten whole. Would love to try out being a small mixed-use property developer.
With all the talk about the sports complex lately, curious if anyone's heard anything new about the Doro District.
After a flurry of initial activity - DDRB review, parking procurement, DIA approval - seems like this project has fallen silent since last May.
Any news on if the bowling alley has been shelved or is that going to go up this year? This district could become what Pinewood Social in Nashville is.
Quote from: KenFSU on January 17, 2018, 04:16:37 PM
With all the talk about the sports complex lately, curious if anyone's heard anything new about the Doro District.
After a flurry of initial activity - DDRB review, parking procurement, DIA approval - seems like this project has fallen silent since last May.
The Chamber's annual meeting next week is happening at the Doro
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 17, 2018, 11:02:37 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on January 17, 2018, 04:16:37 PM
With all the talk about the sports complex lately, curious if anyone's heard anything new about the Doro District.
After a flurry of initial activity - DDRB review, parking procurement, DIA approval - seems like this project has fallen silent since last May.
The Chamber's annual meeting next week is happening at the Doro
Sweet!
Has anyone used the dock at Intuition? It looks like it's been fixed up on Google maps. Is there a gate or anything on it?