it's a tragedy. Mr. Jones (JJ) and his wife owned the Genesis Cafe on Old Kings Rd (near Baymeadows intersection). they had a catering business too. some of the best food around. he and his wife would travel around to different parts of the country to taste the cooking and learn how to cook it and bring it back to their little cafe. great stuff. just a very pleasant man. unfortunately, he was killed today crossing Atlantic Blvd. it is my understanding that he was told by his doc to start exercising more and so had started biking. from the report, it looks like he tried to cross while he had a red light and didn't see the truck coming. a tragedy nonetheless. go here, read the story and then read the comments.
http://news.jacksonville.com/justin/2008/07/24/bicyclist-seriously-injured-in-collision-with-truck/
there really is a lot of hate in this town against those who are pedestrians, cyclist and scooter/motorcycle riders. my wife and i talked today, seriously for the first time, about moving to somewhere safer (crime-wise), slower and more pedestrian/bike-friendly. the report that came out not too long ago about jax being one of the worst bike-friendly cities in the nation was one thing. the daily honks and aggression we get from rude, impatient, unforgiving motorists is one thing. but this may be for us the straw that broke the camel's back. even though it looks like it may have been his accidental fault in this case. if nothing else, it has concreted in my mind that the city has ZERO priority for bike lanes. just like the letter-writer to the T-U who recently visited Tenn said...maybe ya'll can have Jacksonville ("ya'll" being the murdering thugs and backwards, angry rednecks).
"Pete" sums up probably 70% of Jacksonville...
QuotePete Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Bike lanes take up very valuable driving lanes. We used to have two lanes each way through San Marco. Now we have one lane each way and an absolutely empty bike lane. The highest and best use of the roads is for vehicles. If the bikes stay out of my way then I’ll stay out of theirs.
The problem is they ride on San Jose, Beauclerc, Scott Mill and Mandarin Road in packs and actually out into the road by many feet. These pack bicyclists are complete jerks.
We don’t need more bike lanes, this is not a third world country or socialist Europe. This is the largest area wise city in the continental US. Cars are king in Jacksonville and always will be. Ride your bike on major roads at your own risk and don’t look for me to give you your three feet. Maybe I’ll give you 6 inches.
http://news.jacksonville.com/justin/2008/07/24/bicyclist-seriously-injured-in-collision-with-truck/
I am very sorry to hear about this accident.
You shouldnt leave town because of this though. Maybe you should move to a more pedestrian/bike friendly part of town, like Riverside/Avondale for example.
Arrghh. It's EMBARRASSING to read responses like "Pete's". This is exactly what I was talking about regarding comments in newspaper's blogs. I'm sure that guy's family and friends appreciate the comments like that... WTF is the TU thinking? Are they enjoying collecting comments like that and displaying them on their stories? They only serve to incite other ignorant comments. Seriously, what is the point? Are they holding up some kind of virtual mirror to the readers, in effect saying: this is you! Look!
Listen, I am the first to defend free speech but when you post a story about a stand up guy in the community getting killed in a bad way and it incites ridiculous, angry and ignorant comments you should remove the ability to comment on that story. It's in bad taste and it's low class.
Driven, don't let this incident be that straw. I too have talked with my wife about moving away for the same reasons you do but this city needs positive thinking people to enact change. You guys have managed to maintain a positive and apparently growing website here, and even though we argue sometimes, this site seems to make people pay attention when it wants to. I think it's time to step up the game a little. Stephen got JTA to take notice. There's no reason similar problems cannot be addressed in the same way.
I wouldn't blame you if you left because things are F'ed up right now and with the people in charge it looks to become even bleaker. But like RG said, you shouldn't leave over this. I have to wonder though just how many people have the same exact idea as you. How many of them are having the same discussions with their families.
hey guys - thanks for the encouraging words. who knows. i think we are going to look around, but nothing imminent. in the meantime, i wonder what we could do to change things in this arena? at least with commuter rail, we had JTA - an agency that at least listens SOME to the people it serves. how much does JTA have to do with bike lanes? wouldn't it be the (mostly corrupt and self-seeking - the self-seeking part confirmed by opinion of most of the residents in a recent T-U poll) leaders in City Council & the mayor?
btw...i ride the MS 150 with Team Citi. here is a small chunk of what our leader sent out today in his daily email (btw, he has never used the word "enemy")...
QuoteEnemy. Who's our enemy? Most drivers in Jacksonville, by the sound of feedback to a recent Jacksonville.com story regarding a cyclist hit and killed by a truck on Atlantic Blvd.
-- Pete says, "I drive by aggressive bicyclists everday. They act like they own the road. The ride in packs like gangs and give you the bird if you toot your horn. They are taking their lives into their own hands by riding a little piece of metal and rubber in traffic and I have no sympathy for them."
-- CR says, "I am with Pete. Anyone who rides in today’s traffic has apple sauce for brains. What do these cyclists think they are doing, riding for a yellow jersey or something? Get a better hobbie. The cyclist uniform looks fruity, especially in Mandarin on San Jose Blvd. and Northern St Johns county along Julington Creek Plantation area (Fruit Cove?). They don’t understand the risk vs. 5,000 lb vehicles. Lots of better ways to stay in shape safely. Your life is irreplaceable, and do you really want your wife spending your hard earned dough on some wimpy con artist second husband."
-- Nester says, "Most bike riding adults are just drunks that got one too many DUI'S and can’t keep their s**t together. However, I do know some that have the 'green' mentality. You know, the excercise nuts."
-- And then there's Horace, "Bicycles need to be outlawed, along with cars that can exceed the speed limit. Put everyone into golf carts."
Ok, my blood was boiling so I just posted a scathing post to the article.
Driven, my husband and I are moving to the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex in the next week or so...an area that was recently voted by Bicycling magazine as being one of the "worst cities for cycling" in the entire country, and you know what, it's still better than Jacksonville.
No, they don't have bike lanes and some of the roads are pitted and rough. Yes, there are a great many cyclists killed each year by cars (most of the drivers having been drunk), but they recognize their downfalls and have worked with many cities throughout the area to build a series of off-road paved trails that in many instances, runs directly next to the road and is not unlike a completely seperate road specificically for bikes complete with stop signs and directional lines. Their drivers don't purposefully seek out to hurt and offend cyclists. When my husband and I stopped into a bike shop and asked about the drivers and how bad it was, we were told, "it's not very bike friendly." We were disappointed and further asked, "do they throw change out the window at you guys or swerve to knock you off the road?" "Do they honk and yell things out their windows at you or cut you off at red lights?" The shop owner looked completely shocked and said, "God no!"
This just goes to show you that no matter how many bike lanes are installed here and no matter how many accomodations are made to make things "safer" for cyclists, you will never change the overall mentality of the ignorant car-minded typical Jacksonvillians which is seek-out-and-destroy-that-which-is-different-from-me.
Quote from: second_pancake on July 25, 2008, 09:59:49 AM
This just goes to show you that no matter how many bike lanes are installed here and no matter how many accomodations are made to make things "safer" for cyclists, you will never change the overall mentality of the ignorant car-minded typical Jacksonvillians which is seek-out-and-destroy-that-which-is-different-from-me.
I couldn't agree more!
QuoteMost cyclists DARE you to hit them and frequently will obstruct traffic.
I don’t have any sympathy at all for them.
Another comment from the TU story.
Second, I sympathize with you. Your TU comment was indeed scathing but it was on the money.
I wrote to the the TU editor asking what he hopes to accomplish with the unmoderated comments that continue to poison the TU message boards. I haven't heard back yet.
Frank Denton
Quote from: thebrokenforum on July 25, 2008, 12:08:39 AM
Arrghh. It's EMBARRASSING to read responses like "Pete's". This is exactly what I was talking about regarding comments in newspaper's blogs. I'm sure that guy's family and friends appreciate the comments like that...
I could not agree more. I was reading the postings last night and just could not believe what was being written. Who are these people? What surprised me most was some of the most ignorant commenter’s seemed to all know each other, which tells me they have nothing better to do then search the TU for stories they can make their ignorant hateful comments on.
I ride with my child and usually, in the core, people are very respectful but there are some who will go out of their way to try and hit you EVEN with a child on board. I don't ride in the middle of the lane; I follow the rules of the road, as I believe most of us do. I know of bikers who have been stopped by JSO in the core for riding on the sidewalk and told this is not legal; there are even some signs on Main St stating no bikes. Jacksonville gives us no choice but to take the risk we may, while following all the rules of the road, run into one of these ignorant drivers while biking.
QuoteTry Rich Ray
Done. Thanks.
Quote-- Pete says, "I drive by aggressive bicyclists everday. They act like they own the road. The ride in packs like gangs and give you the bird if you toot your horn. They are taking their lives into their own hands by riding a little piece of metal and rubber in traffic and I have no sympathy for them."
-- CR says, "I am with Pete. Anyone who rides in today’s traffic has apple sauce for brains. What do these cyclists think they are doing, riding for a yellow jersey or something? Get a better hobbie. The cyclist uniform looks fruity, especially in Mandarin on San Jose Blvd. and Northern St Johns county along Julington Creek Plantation area (Fruit Cove?). They don’t understand the risk vs. 5,000 lb vehicles. Lots of better ways to stay in shape safely. Your life is irreplaceable, and do you really want your wife spending your hard earned dough on some wimpy con artist second husband."
-- Nester says, "Most bike riding adults are just drunks that got one too many DUI'S and can’t keep their s**t together. However, I do know some that have the 'green' mentality. You know, the excercise nuts."
-- And then there's Horace, "Bicycles need to be outlawed, along with cars that can exceed the speed limit. Put everyone into golf carts."
Don't you
LOVE how people take one piece of knowledge about a person (they ride a bike) that they know
NOTHING ELSE about, and make all kinds of assumptions about them ??
This is why I chaffe so much at comments on these boards that seek to pigeonhole people based on one belief, or one post.
Now obviously Driven is a cyclist, so it goes without saying that he is an devoted environmentalist, otherwise he would be driving instead. Of course, it is possible he can't drive because he had a DUI arrest, and can't afford auto insurance. However, I will give him the benefit of the doubt on that.
Now since he is an environmentalist, we obviously know a lot of other things about him too. Environmentalists are always liberal Democrats, and therefore he thinks Bush is satan, Obama is the messiah, and that we should all be carbon-taxed. His concept of a 'family' no doubt includes 'Adam and Steve' living next door to his 'green' bungalow located in Riverside or some such place.
Now Driven must have SOME kind of car, after all, this is Jacksonville. But, no doubt it is a Prius, or if not, his next car will be.
Now as for his destination on the bike, if he isn't headed to the Sierra Club meeting, he must be going to buy overpriced organic 'essentials' at the 'fruitty' health store. And obviously it really is no stretch to say that he drinks "lattes" like water.
Since Driven is using a public road to ride his bicycle, which everyone knows is for AUTOS, and since AUTOS use gas, the AUTO drivers paid for this road with the gas taxes they paid at the pump. Driven is actually feeding off the government by using the road without purchasing gas. But then being a liberal Democrat, that wouldn't bother him. Such are the thoughts of the narrow-minded. I try not to be like them, but probably only because I have been so 'defined' myself.
So Driven, how close to the truth do the narrow-minded get?
Quote from: stephendare on July 25, 2008, 09:53:53 AM
The governing entity on this issue is the Department of Transportation. They decide to build the bike lanes and whether or not they should be installed.
The City of Jacksonville can take a proactive role in this arena on streets that the FDOT does not maintain. There's no reason we can't remove a lane from some of our local roads to create avenues through town that cater to alternative forms (anything other than cars) of transit. Many cities are already doing this.
(http://brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/bikelanes.jpg)
An example of making a local street one-way and using a portion of the old lane for cycling.QuoteIf I remember, Driven, there is a requirement that new road construction accomodate bike lanes.
The issue came up during the Better Jacksonville Plan during the improvements on 8th Street.
The state was requiring us to have bike lanes installed, and Van Horn was against it in favor of parking. There was mixed opinion on this at the time, I dont remember how it was resolved.
8th Street has bike lanes now and no parking, which I believe was a mistake. If it were up to me, it would have both, at the expense of the un-needed center turn lane and grass medians.
Jacksonville needs one of these...
QuoteJune 25, 2008
Hoboken Bicycle Plan proposal
by Juan
ÂÂÂAbout 20 community members came out to the Multi-Service Center tonight for the Parking & Transportation subcommittee bicycle plan meeting. Traffic engineer Ian Sacs gave a presentation for a comprehensive bicycle plan for the city that would include bike lanes, bike parking, traffic enforcement, safety and public awareness components.
Below is a draft version of the proposed layout of bike lanes and bike racks. ÂOnly Class II and III bicycle lanes are proposed, meaning only some paint will be needed to make the adjustments. Class II lanes where a strip of paint is used to delineate a lane for bikes on the left hand side of the road are proposed on wider streets including Madison St, Grand St, Sinatra Dr and northern portions of Park Ave and Garden St. The left hand side is preferred because it is safer for bicyclists since parked driver side car doors are 3 times more likely to open than passenger side doors. For more narrow roads, class III lanes would be used where “sharrows†(see image on right) would remind drivers that the road is to be shared with bicycle riders.
Although bicyclists have the same right to the road as cars, the plan creates a grid of designated bike routes designed to raise awareness of drivers, thus creating a safer environment for both bike riders and drivers. Park Ave and Madison St are designated routes running north from Observer Highway to 15th St while Grand St and Garden St run parallel in the south-bound direction. East-west bike corridors conecting to the light rail stops are proposed at 3rd & 4th and 8th & 9th along with another pair at 12th & 13th.
Since part of the purpose is to encourage more people to bike within Hoboken, more heavily trafficked roads like Washington St or Observer Hwy were not included in the proposal. Bike racks are also proposed all along Washington St, 1st Ave, at the PATH and Light Rail stops at 2nd and 9th streets. A draft of the proposal is below:
Hoboken Bike Plan(http://www.livablestreets.com/projects/hoboken/project-home/bikeplanproposalsideways.png)
Lake- 8th street has bike lanes that just end in the middle of a block. They are not really usuable. Why does the city not put bike lanes in realistic areas? The bike lane on riverside is a little strange. Almost everyone I know bikes on the Riverwalk, not Riverside. Plus this bike lane just kind of ends too. Perhaps this is part of the perception some posters had about empty bike lanes....
Uptown, I use the bike lane on Riverside as do a lot of us that ride in groups on group rides or just to move about the city at higher rates of speed. While the riverwalk is nice for general purposes, if you ride faster than 18 mph, it's just not safe for those walking and jogging. You're right though, the lane on Riverside does just end. The funny thing is, the road stays the same width all the way down until the right turn into 5 points. Did they run out of paint or something, lol.
The road contractor probably just added the bike lane in the area where they were under contract to expand Riverside Avenue. The area south of I-95/north of McCoys Cree was not a part of that contract. What the city needs is an actual plan where bike lanes are constructed as a part of a more massive network for cyclist to easily navigate the city. What we are doing right now is building isolated lanes, based on certain road expansion projects. In other words, there's no "connectivity".
vicupstate,
i really could care less how some local idiot extrapolates my political views or lifestyle from my choice to cycle. what i'm railing against is what 2ndpancake cited - an overall mentality in this city. and the city's leaders are leaders of the worst kind in this arena - i think they have the same mentality.
These posts made me realize how little I ride my bike anymore. I used to live in Madison WI and rode my bike almost everyday. Madison not only had painted bike lanes on its streets, but also miles and miles of separate bike paths that connected to various points all over the city. I honestly don't feel safe riding in Jacksonville and many times I just walk instead. I would be in huge support of working towards getting some designated bike lanes especially in the downtown area.
And please people....wear a helmet and make your kids wear one too. It could save your life.
Quotei think they have the same mentality.
Think you hit the nail on the head.
Quote from: brainstormer on July 25, 2008, 03:08:07 PM
These posts made me realize how little I ride my bike anymore. I used to live in Madison WI and rode my bike almost everyday. Madison not only had painted bike lanes on its streets, but also miles and miles of separate bike paths that connected to various points all over the city. I honestly don't feel safe riding in Jacksonville and many times I just walk instead. I would be in huge support of working towards getting some designated bike lanes especially in the downtown area.
And please people....wear a helmet and make your kids wear one too. It could save your life.
I read somewhere that Madison was a wonderful city for riding your bike.
The state of Wisconsin has also transformed old Railroad tracks into biking thoroughfares that criss cross the state... the skeeters are a bitch tho... ;D
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/parks/trails/tbike.html
Quote from: stephendare on July 25, 2008, 02:57:51 PM
Quote from: second_pancake on July 25, 2008, 02:49:20 PM
Uptown, I use the bike lane on Riverside as do a lot of us that ride in groups on group rides or just to move about the city at higher rates of speed. While the riverwalk is nice for general purposes, if you ride faster than 18 mph, it's just not safe for those walking and jogging. You're right though, the lane on Riverside does just end. The funny thing is, the road stays the same width all the way down until the right turn into 5 points. Did they run out of paint or something, lol.
are you serious?
Dead serious. Come over the Acosta from San Marco via the Broad St. exit, make a left turn, left make another left to go onto Riverside over that very steep little Riverside bridge, and you're immediately spit onto a bike lane. The lane continues past Jefferson, in front of the new EverHome building and then just suddenly poops out right before Blue Cross and Blue Shield, but the width of the road stays the same.
Same on 8th St it just vanishes between Main and Laura. it doesn;t really begin or end anywhere either, it connects to nothing, it is the twilight zone. I also think 8th is only marked as a bike lane on one side.
Quote from: Driven1 on July 25, 2008, 03:18:09 PM
Quote from: brainstormer on July 25, 2008, 03:08:07 PM
These posts made me realize how little I ride my bike anymore. I used to live in Madison WI and rode my bike almost everyday. Madison not only had painted bike lanes on its streets, but also miles and miles of separate bike paths that connected to various points all over the city. I honestly don't feel safe riding in Jacksonville and many times I just walk instead. I would be in huge support of working towards getting some designated bike lanes especially in the downtown area.
And please people....wear a helmet and make your kids wear one too. It could save your life.
I read somewhere that Madison was a wonderful city for riding your bike.
Its a college city, of course it is. It is a remarkably pretty little city too.
This story is truly very sad and should wake up some in Jacksonville about the need to create more pedestrian friendly neighborhoods. Now I think I'm going to get lynched by members of this board when I say that I actually hate it when I have to share the road with bikers. There I said it. I don't mind bicycle lanes at all and I think they are a super great idea though.
Normal road lanes are for cars. They were designed for cars and cars mainly travel on them. In Jacksonville there are many two lane roads (one lane in each direction). It makes my blood boil when I have to drive behind a cyclist who understandably is traveling at no more than 20 mph. All I can think is get the heck off of the road. Not to mention, I then have to cross into the oncoming traffic lane to get around the biker(s). Most bikers I see are just doing it for recreation, not as necessity.
Car lanes are for cars, bicycle lanes are for bicycles. I understand there are not many bicycle lanes here in Jax and that is a shame. The city should build many many more bicycle lanes to accommodate cyclists. But likewise cyclists should understand that the are traveling at a much lower speed than cars and thus are causing unnecessary hardships on drivers and also creating a traffic hazard when they use car lanes.
Now don't even get me started on the assholes who feel it is their god given right to use car lans for walking when there is a perfectly fine sidewalk available next to the road. They can just go to hell. I won't give them 3 ft or any room for that matter. They can just get run over for all I care. I certainly take caution not to run them over ( i don't want to injure or kill anyone with my car), but I really shouldn't have to use any caution because they should not be in the middle of the road in the first place. Some people even walk/ jog with their strollers in the middle of the road. Those people should have their heads examined for the safety of their children.
Quote from: chipwich on July 26, 2008, 01:57:15 AM
Normal road lanes are for cars. They were designed for cars and cars mainly travel on them. In Jacksonville there are many two lane roads (one lane in each direction). It makes my blood boil when I have to drive behind a cyclist who understandably is traveling at no more than 20 mph. All I can think is get the heck off of the road. Not to mention, I then have to cross into the oncoming traffic lane to get around the biker(s). Most bikers I see are just doing it for recreation, not as necessity.
i just question why you can't just slow down for 6 seconds to save a life and be friendly? what is so important in YOUR life that you can't share the road?
QuoteThey can just go to hell. I won't give them 3 ft or any room for that matter. They can just get run over for all I care.
You expect people to take you seriously with an argument like that?
Quote from: chipwich on July 26, 2008, 01:57:15 AM
Now don't even get me started on the assholes who feel it is their god given right to use car lans for walking when there is a perfectly fine sidewalk available next to the road. They can just go to hell. I won't give them 3 ft or any room for that matter. They can just get run over for all I care.
chip, i've never met you, but i can picture you. you have a larger frame and really don't get outdoors that much. you had one too many chocolate "chipwiches" long ago. your weight issues have vexed you for some time now. to the point that you have almost given up hope. you've pretty much accepted this "bigger" you as the new you and there is no turning back. you actually could turn back chip. you just have to exercise regularly and eat right. and be consistent. those three things chip.
listen, the reason that many people run (i don't see any walk) on the pavement instead of the concrete sidewalk is that the rubber in asphalt "gives" more than concrete does. meaning it is better on the knees of the runner.
there are so many things like this that if some people actually had an active lifestyle and took care of their bodies, they would find this stuff out on their own through experience.
i had an acquaintance (she was about 24) that was killed on Sunbeam Rd by a motorist about 5 years ago. i think she was actually running on the sidewalk though. i wonder if it was you that hit her? if not you, it was probably someone with the exact same mentality and hatred towards those who are more active than you.
it all comes down to the kindergarten lesson (that you and so many like you in this town missed)... sharing.
Quote from: Driven1 on July 24, 2008, 11:11:36 PM
it's a tragedy. Mr. Jones (JJ) and his wife owned the Genesis Cafe on Old Kings Rd (near Baymeadows intersection). they had a catering business too. some of the best food around. he and his wife would travel around to different parts of the country to taste the cooking and learn how to cook it and bring it back to their little cafe. great stuff. just a very pleasant man. unfortunately, he was killed today crossing Atlantic Blvd. it is my understanding that he was told by his doc to start exercising more and so had started biking. from the report, it looks like he tried to cross while he had a red light and didn't see the truck coming. a tragedy nonetheless. go here, read the story and then read the comments.
http://news.jacksonville.com/justin/2008/07/24/bicyclist-seriously-injured-in-collision-with-truck/
there really is a lot of hate in this town against those who are pedestrians, cyclist and scooter/motorcycle riders. my wife and i talked today, seriously for the first time, about moving to somewhere safer (crime-wise), slower and more pedestrian/bike-friendly. the report that came out not too long ago about jax being one of the worst bike-friendly cities in the nation was one thing. the daily honks and aggression we get from rude, impatient, unforgiving motorists is one thing. but this may be for us the straw that broke the camel's back. even though it looks like it may have been his accidental fault in this case. if nothing else, it has concreted in my mind that the city has ZERO priority for bike lanes. just like the letter-writer to the T-U who recently visited Tenn said...maybe ya'll can have Jacksonville ("ya'll" being the murdering thugs and backwards, angry rednecks).
"Driven;"
I am too saddened by this news; and I am not taking sides but please try and understand my position; but if I am riding a bike, and the crosswalk signal portrays a steady red hand which indicates not to cross, I won't cross, and believe me if I do cross when the crosswalk signal says stay put, I am going to look both ways not once, but at least three or four times. It appears the Cyclist may have been tired and confused or maybe just didn't see the truck coming (which had a green light). I don't think or even believe that this is a case of an angry trucker just barreling through to hit a cyclist intentionally. My recommendation to you and your beautiful family is to relax, take a deep breath, stay put, and enjoy Jacksonville. This was a blatant accident in which the poor Cyclist made a mistake, and the trucker may have tried to stop but couldn't stop in time; remember, trucks are large and it takes a while for them to brake to a complete stop. Jax is not that bad, it is bad mind you, but it is not a City of ferocious road rage car and truck drivers foaming at the mouth and ready to barrel over every pedestrian or cyclist they see.
Heights Unknown
stephen's #2 above is key. that is the point. they really do. too many have the mindset of chipwich...
Quoteregularly go out of their way to be rude to the point of life endangerment.
and, for many, you would never believe it until you get out there and try to ride a bike. it will make you a believer real fast. i consider myself lucky as i've only had beer bottles, flip-flops and trash thrown at me - and that i have not been hit yet.
Stephen is right, go to jacksonville.com and search on bicyclist hit, or bicyclist killed...you will get pages of hits. Now go skim through those hits, about 94% are NOT the bicyclist's fault. Are there worthless bikers out there, oh yes. But the number of worthless drivers exceeds this by the thousands. How many drivers do you see doing stupid stuff like racing or cutting off others to pass for that one car length lead? Tailgating at 70mph's, talking on the phone, reading, eating, doing make up, and don't even get me started on how many people don't understand what it means when they have a merge sign. Blinkers? A lot of drivers can not even tell you where the blinker is on their car....this is all from my experience of DRIVING in my car around this city.
Instead of hating bicyclist, drivers should be ticked off at the city for not providing bike lanes. Instead of worry about the minority of bicyclists out there, their anger would be better spent spewing venom at the majority of dumb A$$ drivers on the road, who cause way more accidents and slow downs than any bicyclists.
:P :P :P :P
Quote from: Driven1 on July 26, 2008, 09:45:33 AM
Quote from: chipwich on July 26, 2008, 01:57:15 AM
Now don't even get me started on the assholes who feel it is their god given right to use car lans for walking when there is a perfectly fine sidewalk available next to the road. They can just go to hell. I won't give them 3 ft or any room for that matter. They can just get run over for all I care.
chip, i've never met you, but i can picture you. you have a larger frame and really don't get outdoors that much. you had one too many chocolate "chipwiches" long ago. your weight issues have vexed you for some time now. to the point that you have almost given up hope. you've pretty much accepted this "bigger" you as the new you and there is no turning back. you actually could turn back chip. you just have to exercise regularly and eat right. and be consistent. those three things chip.
listen, the reason that many people run (i don't see any walk) on the pavement instead of the concrete sidewalk is that the rubber in asphalt "gives" more than concrete does. meaning it is better on the knees of the runner.
there are so many things like this that if some people actually had an active lifestyle and took care of their bodies, they would find this stuff out on their own through experience.
i had an acquaintance (she was about 24) that was killed on Sunbeam Rd by a motorist about 5 years ago. i think she was actually running on the sidewalk though. i wonder if it was you that hit her? if not you, it was probably someone with the exact same mentality and hatred towards those who are more active than you.
it all comes down to the kindergarten lesson (that you and so many like you in this town missed)... sharing.
I actually am quite healthy. I jog very regularly using the sidewalk. I am not against cyclists or joggers, or any athelte for that matter. I think it great that people want to go out and be healthy. I do not want to see a single person injured as a result of being hit by a car or a careless driver. I do not drive like it's the end of the world, nor am I gunning for people on the street. I really really pray that I never run over a single person in my life. No rational person wants to injury anyone using their car.
But I think it is common sense for people to stay of of the road. Many drivers just aren't paying that much attention to the road these days. When I see a story of someone who got run over in the middle of the road while not crossing the street, I think to myself "well they shouldn't have been in the road in the first place". The driver of the car shouldn't have to factor in pedestrians when driving on a straight road with no cross-walks. It is the same reason we have J-walking laws. At this time, car lanes are not designed to be shared with other types of transportation. That's a fact. People trying to jockey for position on the road is simply non-sense and dangerous in my opinion.
I could care less that asphalt is better for my knees when jogging. I have seen way too many careless drivers out there for me to even remotely want to risk my life or the lives of motorists just to jog on the asphalt.
I fully advocate the city build more bike lanes and even more jogging lanes if need be. Give cyclists and athletes a safe place to ride and jog. Heck, I propose the lanes be even wider than the narrow lanes the city is now building. Uptowngirl is right, people should be mad at the city for not factoring in these types of uses into the road. I definitely would not mind paying slightly more tax to help provide these extra lanes that would benefit everyone on the road.
Quote from: chipwich on July 26, 2008, 01:57:15 AM
Normal road lanes are for cars.
Sorry, chipwich, but this simply is not true. This is also a misconception that kept popping up on the TU comments.
According to Florida state law, bicycles have every right to ride on the roads, except interstates and other controlled-access highways, as long as they follow all bicycle regulations.
QuoteEvery person propelling a vehicle by human power has all of the rights and all of the duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle under this chapter.... Fla. Stat. 316.2065(1)
It would behoove everyone, including cyclists, to read the entire bicycle regulation section of the State Uniform Traffic Control law. Bad cyclists who do not obey the law make it more dangerous for good cyclists. Good or bad, though, no cyclist deserves to be killed by a motor vehicle.
You can read all of the bicycle regulations at http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0316/SEC2065.HTM&Title=->2007->Ch0316->Section%202065#0316.2065 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0316/SEC2065.HTM&Title=->2007->Ch0316->Section%202065#0316.2065)
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=140813 (http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=140813)
Bike Jax did a very touching piece on this accident.
http://bikejax.blogspot.com/2008/07/ghost-bike-for-johnny.html
(http://bp2.blogger.com/_riWGVTTCTd0/SI5vEN9qjJI/AAAAAAAABE8/kvGdf63o8gk/s400/Johnny+Jones+Ghostbike.jpg)
Thanks for the link, it was indeed a nice article and I think it's cool that they placed the ghost bike there.
I just finished an interview with Kyle Meean of WTLV. He was more than a little upset about the crosswalk situation I discovered and report on at Bike Jax
Look for a coverage during the 5:30 news on both ABC 25 and WTLV 12.
Very nice work BikeJax.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=115156&catid=15
Quote
JACKSONVILLE, FL -- A First Coast News investigation is questioning whether a faulty crossing signal contributed to a bicyclist being struck and killed last week.
52-year old Chef and Restaurateur Johnny Leonard Jones died while riding his bike in St. Nicholas around 7:30 p.m. on the Wednesday, July 23rd. He was less than a mile from his home.
According to police reports, as Jones headed north across the nine lanes and two medians where Beach Boulevard and Atlantic Boulevard connect, he was hit by a truck heading west in the two northernmost lanes.
Witnesses say the truck's driver had the green light.
A "Ghost Bike" now stands on the north side of that road, just a few feet from the point where Jones was hit.
It is a bicycle painted completely white, chained to a pole with a sign memorializing Jones.
The memorial was placed by cycling enthusiast and bikejax.blogspot.com founder, Matt Uhrig.
"Bicyclists who have been killed on the streets. Just a little reminder to drivers that we're there," said Uhrig, who added he doesn't believe the crossing signal at that intersection offers pedestrians enough time to cross safely.
"The crossing light stays lit for a walk signal for a total of five seconds. Five seconds to clear 9 lanes of traffic and two medians! Impossible!" said Uhrig.
First Coast News cameras rolled as we punched the crossing button on the north side of the street. The red crossing hand went to white for exactly five seconds, and then blinked red for another fifteen seconds.
It gave us twenty seconds to cross all nine lanes safely.
Johnny Jones' neighbors told First Coast News he was a cautious bike rider, often riding several miles to his Genesis Café on Old Kings Road.
"And he was a very careful bike rider and he left riding his bicycle many times riding it all the way down to Genesis Cafe. That takes careful!" said neighbor and long-time friend, Ruthie Bretana.
First Coast News went back to the intersection Wednesday afternoon to try to retrace the path of Jones' final seconds. We discovered the crossing signal button on the south side of the road did not work.
We pushed the button every few seconds. We pushed it continuously. We pushed the button more than 40-times over a 5-1/2 minute time period and several cycles of the traffic lights from all directions.
The crossing signal never switched from the red, "STOP" signal, to the white sign indicating it was safe to cross.
Neighbor Ruthie Bretana believes Jones would have taken the safest route possible.
"He wouldn't just ride out in traffic. I'm sure he wouldn't!" said Bretana.
It is not known if the switch was working properly or if it was broken at that fateful moment Johnny Leonard Jones tried to cross the street.
It is not known if he pushed the crossing button attempting to use the cross signal to get across the nine lanes and two medians.
First Coast News called the Mayor's office about the non-working crossing sign button, asking for an interview with someone from the City's Public Works Department.
A spokesperson for the City told us she would find someone for us to talk to, but we never spoke with Public Works Officials.
About twenty minutes after hanging up with the Mayor's Office, a bright orange City Public Works maintenance truck pulled up to the intersection and a worker stepped out and began dismantling the broken switch.
When our camera approached and we asked about his work, the man replied, "You'll have to talk to the Mayor's Office!"
He then stopped working, spoke for a few minutes on his phone, and then our phone rang.
It was the Mayor's spokesperson, acknowledging that we were videotaping the repair in progress.
"I can only tell you that the matter is now under investigation and in the hands of the Office Of The General Counsel," she said.
Johnny Jones' widow, Cindy, said she had spoken with the family's lawyer since his death, but her concentration on this Wednesday was her deceased husband's viewing, and his funeral in the morning.
Matt Uhrig hopes his "Ghost Bike" is the last one he'll have to place on the First Coast.
"My heart goes out to his friends and his families for their loss," said Uhrig.
"A very dear neighbor he was. And we all love him in the neighborhood," said Bretana.
©2008 First Coast News. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, rewritten, or redistributed.
QuoteA spokesperson for the City told us she would find someone for us to talk to, but we never spoke with Public Works Officials.
About twenty minutes after hanging up with the Mayor's Office, a bright orange City Public Works maintenance truck pulled up to the intersection and a worker stepped out and began dismantling the broken switch.
When our camera approached and we asked about his work, the man replied, "You'll have to talk to the Mayor's Office!"
He then stopped working, spoke for a few minutes on his phone, and then our phone rang.
It was the Mayor's spokesperson, acknowledging that we were videotaping the repair in progress.
"I can only tell you that the matter is now under investigation and in the hands of the Office Of The General Counsel," she said.
awesome news first coast news!!!! wow. now THAT is investigative journalism. that is water in a dreary land!!
DTP - do you know who we can nominate them for an award??
AP might be a good place to start. They do regional awards for all sorts of things.
QuoteBicycle-pickup accident leaves teen hospitalized
A Jacksonville bicyclist suffered life-threatening injuries Wednesday night when she was hit by a pickup on the Westside, police said.
The bicyclist, 16, was crossing Wilson Boulevard at Firestone Road about 9 p.m. The driver of the pickup said he didn't see the girl and hit her as he was turning, police detective Michael Knox said.
She was taken to Shands Jacksonville, Knox said. No other details were available Wednesday night.
Matt Coleman
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/082808/met_323769859.shtml (http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/082808/met_323769859.shtml)
I am from Jacksonville. Born in Riverside Hospital...now the produce section of the Riverside Publix. Cycling has always been fun for me. I enjoy doing it, like Jacksonville drivers enjoy being a-holes and loathesome to each other...you know, a civic pasttime. I rode for years in the 80s and 90s from Confederate Point through Lakeshore to Ortega and to downtown and back, usually every day job permitting. I had so many run-ins with drivers wanting to kill me just for being in their way for seconds. I was never a road biker. I always prefered to ride illegally on the sidewalk when possible via mountain bike. Drivers in Jax have always been violently hateful of bicycles. This is not a new concept, just a new generation of d-bags out there. I have had hamburgers, batteries, diapers, a two by four and a brick thrown at me over the years. Nothing hit because most of Jacksonville has never heard of this majic called "Physics 1101". I now live in Daytona Beach, ride everyday I can, and have NEVER had one of these Jacksonville related incidences in 7 years...not one. I still ride in Jacksonville when I visit, still love the city, but you know...I'm sorry, you can't defeat ignorance and douchebaggery. People like to hate for no reason. People like to take things out on people who they think can't strike back. People REALLY like to get their hate on when they see something they think is "weird". I don't have a solution. I just got beat down and tired of it all.
Blame it on Milligans and the COJ police/mayor... or Ralph Nader?
(http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/images/Potpourri%20Page/peashooter1.JPG)
The deadly "bean gun"...
A little history some of you "kids" might not know, I too am a rabid mountain biker (pavements as the gut won't take the rough anymore, LOL, besides my good bike was lost HERE, when I moved to Colombia). I used to cover 11 miles daily in Lake Mary-Altamonte, or in Oklahoma farm roads, when much younger I would ride from Ortega Forest to Ortega Hills, Yukon and NAS, all the time.
Back in the day Jacksonville had a local hamburger chain something like Krystals or White Castle, tiny burgers were 5 cents or 10 cents as I recall. The place was black and white striped and they extended throughout the metro to about Green Cove Springs. Locations-Locations and more Locations. Their distinct buildings, food and a huge "MILLIGANS" sign, somehow attracted the high school crowds. I'm talking circa mid-1960's. At the same time some inventor came up with the "BEAN GUN" one of the coolest toys in history. I was a copy of "your choice" of pistols, and you filled it with dry beans from the supermarket. A small spring sent the beans flying and you could shoot 50-100 shots per fill. The bean gun + Milligans became the fun zone that Jacksonville never really had for teens. Anyone a Milligans was a target, and it was open season on anybody from "the other school". The beans didn't hurt, just a mild smack.
But enter the Police, the do-good's and Duval County rule makers. Bean guns were a national defense threat, kids all over the city were laying in ditches moaning in pain from the loss of eyesight...etc...etc... Typical over-reactive BS. Soon ANYONE with a bean-gun was arrested, or threatened and forced to surrender. In fact I've never seen one again. I suspose the law is still on the books and possession would get you 5 years at Raiford.
This new situation stopped a friendly war right at it's climax, and something that would have died away as all fads do, became a rebellion. Now we'd go to Milligans and buy $10.00 worth of hamburgers and go toss them at the police, "the other school kids" or any other handy target. Most you would get was a littering ticket. Great trade off, and a whole generation learned how to hit a dime at 40 feet with a packaged hamburger!
Thus a Jacksonville institution was born, we were the "FREE BIRD GENERATION" and "Lords knows we'll NEVER change", "We can't change..."
OCKLAWAHA