This is for real, ya'll.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/mb/news/local/consumer/on-your-side/downtown-development-idea-focuses-on-the-landing-and-mccoys-creek/375435753
My favorite part is the mini-river/moat around the Landing.
It looks like a great idea. It certainly would be an improvement over what's there right now, but is this another pie in the sky thing, or do you think he really has a chance with this?
How long before this is placed in the archives?
Any idea of what the Riverside bridge clearance is over McCoys creek? I do think it would be kind of cool if it was opened back up to small boats and lined with businesses. A lot of it was channelized for barges back in the day and the bulkheads are still along the creek in spots.
Quote from: acme54321 on December 20, 2016, 10:33:23 PM
Any idea of what the Riverside bridge clearance is over McCoys creek? I do think it would be kind of cool if it was opened back up to small boats and lined with businesses, not that it will ever happen. A lot of it was channelized for barges back in the day and the bulkheads are still along the creek in spots.
Good well thought out plan I hope someone with a lot of money decides to back this
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-sep-downtowns-best-kept-secret-mccoys-creek
Quote from: TimmyB on December 20, 2016, 09:33:20 PM
It looks like a great idea. It certainly would be an improvement over what's there right now, but is this another pie in the sky thing, or do you think he really has a chance with this?
Pie in the sky.
Personally, I think it's a great idea, but there are a
lot of moving parts here, as well as a lot of private property.
First and foremost is Times-Union property, which much of the concept seems to be predicated upon. It's nice that they're willing to entertain the idea, but is Morris really going to effectively cut a very valuable piece of property in half prior to selling it just to accommodate such an idea? Not even sure how you get vehicles into that portion of the property on the right with a creek cutting through it. That Riverside clearance doesn't look too high either.
(https://snag.gy/pG4Eyv.jpg)
Second is the cleanup of McCoys Creek itself. From what I understand, that water is disgusting and bulkheads are sparse and damaged. The cleanup work that would be necessary just to make way for such a project would cost millions upon millions of dollars.
As far as the Landing goes, the city owns the land, not the mall, and we obviously can't do anything without Tony Sleiman's approval, and a metric shit ton of city financing. Plus, we're already constructing an amphitheater over in the stadium district.
On bridge fountains, someone else might be able to come up with something, but I've only ever seen this used in waterways that boats can't pass through (see the Banpo Bridge in South Korea). Seems like the most gimmicky part of the proposal to me, and the most counter intuitive to an active river. We've tried similar gimmickry in the past, with installing dramatic lighting on all of our bridges prior to the Super Bowl, and look at what a draw that turned out to be.
(http://resources.made-in-china.com/actives_mic/industry_info/2/262964/1355294463156.jpg)
I have the same navigation and utility concerns with the world's largest fountain being placed in the middle of the St. Johns River as well. You want people to be able to use the river, and I'm not so sure if that works if their jet ski is being blasted 20 stories into the air while they ride.
Pardon my crude late evening 'shop, but Coastline seems like it would be a much better place for a fountain, particularly if the current is too strong to allow for active use here. Would also provide a nice focal point for the riverwalk as it winds around the newly exposed river.
(https://snag.gy/kVICcS.jpg)
You know me, I'm almost always optimistic about these things, and it's certainly impressive that he's already gotten an audience with Shad Khan, but logistically, this seems like a
very difficult project to pull off.
Love the outside of the box thinking though, and there's some really great ideas within the video (particularly, the need for Jacksonville to distinguish itself via water, rather than land), just question the feasibility.
All that said, exciting times, right?
These last few months have felt like the most active in terms of proposals, movement, and pie-in-the-skies since the pre-recession boom. Hopefully we come out of this one with more progress than the last.
A fountain would nice there, I hope they just dont leave that open and bare
Seems like one of those projects that we'll be chuckling about in a few years.
Remember that time...
Quote from: Bill Hoff on December 20, 2016, 08:46:21 PM
This is for real, ya'll.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/mb/news/local/consumer/on-your-side/downtown-development-idea-focuses-on-the-landing-and-mccoys-creek/375435753
My favorite part is the mini-river/moat around the Landing.
I was being sarcastic. This is ridiculous on many levels. Good grief.
This would go well with those hot dog carts on the Main Street Bridge.
One thing I promise you is we don't need another fountain.
The Bridges with waterfalls thing is cool but would be awful for boaters...but I guess he is a yacht man and would know more than me about it. Maybe something on the Main Street Bridge would be cool on the hour or something that is identifiable.
The most interesting aspect to this idea is making McCoy's Creek navigable. His vision of developing all the way up McCoys is not feasible especially with the railroad right there (which I am sure CSX doesn't want additional liability running around its tracks) but there are spots for redevelopment for sure. I could see a developer in the future wanting to restore access to the Creek up to Riverside Avenue to add additional water components to their property.
Maybe it would be cool just to have a "wild river" running through our urban areas that is cleaned up and can be used for kayaking.
BTW, Hogan's Creek may make more sense for the type of development sought especially if the overpasses come down one day from the Hart.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on December 21, 2016, 09:45:27 AM
Quote from: Bill Hoff on December 20, 2016, 08:46:21 PM
This is for real, ya'll.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/mb/news/local/consumer/on-your-side/downtown-development-idea-focuses-on-the-landing-and-mccoys-creek/375435753
My favorite part is the mini-river/moat around the Landing.
I was being sarcastic. This is ridiculous on many levels. Good grief.
I was hoping you weren't being sarcastic, but I feared the worst! DT needs SOMETHING to happen. Not many places have this much waterfront with this much potential and so little to actually offer for people to come down there.
As a boater, the fountain in the middle of the river is a disaster waiting to happen. We have had 2 large ships crash in to something as big as the bridges in the past few years, they're certainly not going to see the fountain.
Ideally when the Mathews bridge is replaced with something higher, we could get a cruise port downtown. It still won't accommodate the larger ships because of the Dame's point, but it would be a start. (Dame's point should be a tunnel, but that's another topic).
Middle of the river? who said that, were talking about the new that will be open when the parking-lot is demolished.
Quote from: Jimmy on December 21, 2016, 10:25:33 AM
This would go well with those hot dog carts on the Main Street Bridge.
Wow I remember that "Big Ideas"
Quote from: coredumped on December 21, 2016, 02:06:23 PM
As a boater, the fountain in the middle of the river is a disaster waiting to happen. We have had 2 large ships crash in to something as big as the bridges in the past few years, they're certainly not going to see the fountain.
Ideally when the Mathews bridge is replaced with something higher, we could get a cruise port downtown. It still won't accommodate the larger ships because of the Dame's point, but it would be a start. (Dame's point should be a tunnel, but that's another topic).
My understanding is that both bridges would have to be replaced before any new cruise ships could come to Jax. The one we have now barely fits under the Dames Point and even if we raised the Dames Point as I've seen mentioned before, it would have to be by 20-30 feet to accommodate the modern ships. Tampa has the same issue with the Skyway and it's taller than the Dames Point.
What makes you think that the Matthews would be replaced by something higher?
As long as the shipyards south of the Mathews remain in operation, it would be hard to imagine a new Mathews being lower than it is today. Nevertheless, even if the Mathews was replaced with something higher decades from now, the Hart doesn't have the clearance either.
Quote from: copperfiend on December 21, 2016, 08:40:00 AM
Seems like one of those projects that we'll be chuckling about in a few years.
Remember that time...
Like this one? Epic... ;D
Quote"Mooneyhan Entertainment Group is about to make the Jacksonville area one of the top entertainment centers of the world by developing various projects related to the entertainment business in different areas of Jacksonville. Mooneyhan Entertainment has chosen the beaches area to develop their first entertainment center...."
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=3118.0
I propose relcoating NASA to Downtown Jacksonville. Think of the jobs and technology sector! I mean, we've always approached Downtown development from a land point of view, but what about space? I'm going to create a little 3D computer model and tell the local news my idea. Maybe they'll come out and do a story on it.
Now the only question is, where to put the launch pad? It'd be cool to have it atop the Barnett Building. But replacing the fountain in The Landing with a giant rocket launch would be cool too. LaVilla has a lot of open space, the Skyway (which looks very NASA circa 1982) already connects there. These small details are really what will make or break it....decisions, decisions.
The most interesting and possibly realistic proposal here is the opening of McCoy's Creek where it meets the river. A lot of people talk about Hogan's Creek becoming navigable again and I think Hogan's is in desperate need of attention in Klutho Park but McCoy's is more practical. The only obstruction is the TU parking lot all the way to King St. Hogan's disappears underneath Union street and the Arlington Expressway. I feel like people forget this. Unless Hogan's is navigable underneath these roadways? Any body know anything about that?
You won't gain too much. The TU property is only east of the Riverside viaduct. The McCoys Creet culvert (built in 1930 as a part of the improvement project) extends just west of the Skyway guideway.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2229063593_k9bCGD9-M.jpg)
culvert in 1930
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1011574998_WF28sRN-M.jpg)
inside the culvert in 2012
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Neighborhoods/McCoys-Creek-September-2010/i-WcKzfr7/0/L/P1400898-L.jpg)
squeezing under the failing bulkhead west of the culvert
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Neighborhoods/McCoys-Creek-September-2010/i-4Kp2CK2/0/L/P1400917-L.jpg)
under the Times-Union part of the culvert
Doesn't seem feasible
It's pie-in-the-sky without a big pocket sugar daddy who wants to make DT Jax his/her personal sim city.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 22, 2016, 03:17:05 PM
It's pie-in-the-sky without a big pocket sugar daddy who wants to make DT Jax his/her personal sim city.
Enter a visionary yacht club owner . . . .
Any enmity for "Yachts" and related could have been applied not so long ago when we the public owned sizable acreage at the South Bank JEA site. Now consigned to typical retail,housing....and Marina.
John Williams possesses seemingly boundless energy,a youthful outlook and a proven passion for connecting people and the River.Bravo!
At least his vision for Downtown encompasses....what is that stuff???....oh yea...Water!! Waterways!Waterscape!!
In fact McCoys & Hogan currently exist in perfectly accessible fashion - via small craft. Particularly kayaks and paddleboards.Such craft are affordable and easy to store and launch.
McCoys culvert could remain and continue to provide signature creek experience. McCoys shoreline includes strips of 'flood plain' that should reasonably remain off limits to 'development' and afford wonderful natural setting. Not too shabby now,some shoreline natural areas restoration would put us 'over the top',which apparently is so compelling for so many.
Accommodating Down Town Small Craft Navy is an exciting 'can do' concept.
Downtown's small creeks are the big score board of viable river system Restoration and "Access".
Quote from: Bill Hoff on December 22, 2016, 03:28:00 PM
Enter a visionary yacht club owner . . . .
By the way,thread title erroneous; not "Yacht Club".......owns family operated Lambs Yacht Center, key component of 'Jacksonville Marina Mile' "Working Waterfront".
Quote from: thelakelander on December 22, 2016, 02:48:55 PM
You won't gain too much. The TU property is only east of the Riverside viaduct. The McCoys Creet culvert (built in 1930 as a part of the improvement project) extends just west of the Skyway guideway.
I see. McCoys is navigable after the Park St viaduct though? I think an easy an relatively cheap improvement that could be made is clearing out the homeless camp currently under the viaduct and maybe allowing access for a kayak launch. Although looking at the property appraiser website it seems the land is owned by a variety of private interests with only a few lots owned by the city.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on December 20, 2016, 08:46:21 PM
This is for real, ya'll.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/mb/news/local/consumer/on-your-side/downtown-development-idea-focuses-on-the-landing-and-mccoys-creek/375435753
My favorite part is the mini-river/moat around the Landing.
This has brought up another aspect to consider:
Who enjoys the power and privilege of commanding broad public 'press' venues, how is that empowered and to what effect?
Mr. Khan,for example, can muster press/public rapt attention at a moment's notice and is obviously an effective presence in eventual outcome.
Mr. Sleiman once proposed an expansive Landing Marina that was not worth the artist rendition effort.
How great it would be if others such as Stephen Dare,Lake or so many other passionate and knowledgeable MJ forum members were able to share visions via dominant press.
8)