I take it this means no new skyway vehicles for at least 30 years? And exactly how long is it going to take to extended the skyway?
http://news.wjct.org/post/jta-leaders-board-future-jacksonville-skyway
A group of Jacksonville Transportation Authority leaders deciding what to do with the Jacksonville Skyway has found a cheaper way to fix the people mover.
Listen Listening...0:40
All ideas were on the table when the group met last year, including dismantling the project, but board members decided the skyway should remain in operation.
The latest breakthrough was a cost savings maintenance plan helped by Jacksonville-based Westside Electric.
With the cost now 1/3 what it would have been to refurbish each motor, it's much more feasible for JTA to go with its plan from last year: to overhaul the Skyway vehicles, extend it to other areas of the city — most likely at street level — and get another thirty years of useful life out of it.
James Cannon is the managing editor of the Jacksonville Business Journal. He can be reached at jcannon@bizjournals.com
It's hard to see how the current system could be street level for any meaningful distance. It can't cross a road or any of the RR tracks. Maybe they could run it along the FEC to Atlantic Blvd and drop it to grade by the maintenance barn in Brookyln but that's about it.
Basically, "we have no money, we have no technology, so we fix it and move on"
I never heard that the motors were the primary part that were irreplaceable. It was the other mechanical stuff like door hydraulics, suspension components, frame assemblies that rust.
I am more baffled than ever now.
Just get it out to the sports district and farther into San Marco and be done for now.
Making Moves had this story about the Skyway/motors a couple months ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNwF-rngGkU&index=2&list=PL34GzYWMCnn9O0xp5OfShD83SE7NpNLCM
Quote from: acme54321 on October 20, 2016, 01:18:31 PM
It's hard to see how the current system could be street level for any meaningful distance. It can't cross a road or any of the RR tracks. Maybe they could run it along the FEC to Atlantic Blvd and drop it to grade by the maintenance barn in Brookyln but that's about it.
Why can't it run at street grade? Can it not switch to an overhead wire for power at street level? I refuse to believe it is not possible. Tons of cities have electric vehicles at street level.
Quote from: Dapperdan on October 21, 2016, 09:34:49 AM
Quote from: acme54321 on October 20, 2016, 01:18:31 PM
It's hard to see how the current system could be street level for any meaningful distance. It can't cross a road or any of the RR tracks. Maybe they could run it along the FEC to Atlantic Blvd and drop it to grade by the maintenance barn in Brookyln but that's about it.
Why can't it run at street grade? Can it not switch to an overhead wire for power at street level? I refuse to believe it is not possible. Tons of cities have electric vehicles at street level.
That's the point of the discussion to switch vehicles/systems. The current skyway cars require a gigantic hole in the ground, which can't be done at grade without cutting off all pedestrian and vehicular traffic.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on October 21, 2016, 09:58:38 AM
Quote from: Dapperdan on October 21, 2016, 09:34:49 AM
Quote from: acme54321 on October 20, 2016, 01:18:31 PM
It's hard to see how the current system could be street level for any meaningful distance. It can't cross a road or any of the RR tracks. Maybe they could run it along the FEC to Atlantic Blvd and drop it to grade by the maintenance barn in Brookyln but that's about it.
Why can't it run at street grade? Can it not switch to an overhead wire for power at street level? I refuse to believe it is not possible. Tons of cities have electric vehicles at street level.
That's the point of the discussion to switch vehicles/systems. The current skyway cars require a gigantic hole in the ground, which can't be done at grade without cutting off all pedestrian and vehicular traffic.
I don't see that being such a big deal - pretty much any kind of rail system other than a tram is going to be cut off from pedestrians and vehicular traffic. I guess it comes down to space. A tram won't take up additional space (for the most part), as it can run in traffic. But a tram running in the same lanes as traffic is going to be slow - so it will have limited functionality for people who want to travel decent distances.
Quote from: Dapperdan on October 21, 2016, 09:34:49 AM
Quote from: acme54321 on October 20, 2016, 01:18:31 PM
It's hard to see how the current system could be street level for any meaningful distance. It can't cross a road or any of the RR tracks. Maybe they could run it along the FEC to Atlantic Blvd and drop it to grade by the maintenance barn in Brookyln but that's about it.
Why can't it run at street grade? Can it not switch to an overhead wire for power at street level? I refuse to believe it is not possible. Tons of cities have electric vehicles at street level.
Yep, it requires a huge concrete beam to straddle and run on. The current cars are monorails just like at Disney. That beam would have to be recessed into the ground in a trench for the existing vehicles to run at ground level. So it's impossible (within reason) to cross any road/railroad/pedestrian walkway at grade. The most feasible way to get the skyway to grade and expand it into other parts of the city would require removing the monorail from the existing elevated platform and replacing it with tracks. That would of course require all new vehicles and a bunch of other work. Plus a lot of cash, but a lot less than building more elevated platforms (that IMO aren't too aesthetically pleasing).
Quote from: Adam White on October 21, 2016, 10:30:56 AM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on October 21, 2016, 09:58:38 AM
Quote from: Dapperdan on October 21, 2016, 09:34:49 AM
Quote from: acme54321 on October 20, 2016, 01:18:31 PM
It's hard to see how the current system could be street level for any meaningful distance. It can't cross a road or any of the RR tracks. Maybe they could run it along the FEC to Atlantic Blvd and drop it to grade by the maintenance barn in Brookyln but that's about it.
Why can't it run at street grade? Can it not switch to an overhead wire for power at street level? I refuse to believe it is not possible. Tons of cities have electric vehicles at street level.
That's the point of the discussion to switch vehicles/systems. The current skyway cars require a gigantic hole in the ground, which can't be done at grade without cutting off all pedestrian and vehicular traffic.
I don't see that being such a big deal - pretty much any kind of rail system other than a tram is going to be cut off from pedestrians and vehicular traffic. I guess it comes down to space. A tram won't take up additional space (for the most part), as it can run in traffic. But a tram running in the same lanes as traffic is going to be slow - so it will have limited functionality for people who want to travel decent distances.
It's not running with traffic that's the problem. It's crossing them at grade and the giant concrete trench. I don't even know why anyone would discuss it really. the only spot it would be even remotely possible is along the FEC to the north side of Atlantic Blvd at the crossing and right next to the maintenance barn in Brooklyn.
Quote from: acme54321 on October 21, 2016, 10:40:01 AM
Quote from: Adam White on October 21, 2016, 10:30:56 AM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on October 21, 2016, 09:58:38 AM
Quote from: Dapperdan on October 21, 2016, 09:34:49 AM
Quote from: acme54321 on October 20, 2016, 01:18:31 PM
It's hard to see how the current system could be street level for any meaningful distance. It can't cross a road or any of the RR tracks. Maybe they could run it along the FEC to Atlantic Blvd and drop it to grade by the maintenance barn in Brookyln but that's about it.
Why can't it run at street grade? Can it not switch to an overhead wire for power at street level? I refuse to believe it is not possible. Tons of cities have electric vehicles at street level.
That's the point of the discussion to switch vehicles/systems. The current skyway cars require a gigantic hole in the ground, which can't be done at grade without cutting off all pedestrian and vehicular traffic.
I don't see that being such a big deal - pretty much any kind of rail system other than a tram is going to be cut off from pedestrians and vehicular traffic. I guess it comes down to space. A tram won't take up additional space (for the most part), as it can run in traffic. But a tram running in the same lanes as traffic is going to be slow - so it will have limited functionality for people who want to travel decent distances.
It's not running with traffic that's the problem. It's crossing them at grade and the giant concrete trench. I don't even know why anyone would discuss it really. the only spot it would be even remotely possible is along the FEC to the north side of Atlantic Blvd at the crossing and right next to the maintenance barn in Brooklyn.
Ah, okay. Makes perfect sense.
Seems like it would be more reasonable to retrofit (if that's the correct word) the current track/trackway to use a normal tram and then run it at grade everywhere else.
^From the clarification above, it sounds like they're talking about multiple things: extending the life of the current vehicles on the one hand, and expansion options potentially involving at-grade tracks on the other.
Basically sounds like the same thing they said last year, when the scheduled stated they'd work through these issues and present something to the board by the end of this year. The only change is that the existing vehicles may be around longer than originally expected.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-dec-jta-board-approves-resolution-to-modernize-skyway
Quote from: Dapperdan on October 21, 2016, 09:34:49 AM
Why can't it run at street grade? Can it not switch to an overhead wire for power at street level? I refuse to believe it is not possible. Tons of cities have electric vehicles at street level.
I'm just going to assume you've never actually ridden it before....
Good to hear, here is that article:
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/10/20/editorial-jta-s-creativity-on-skyway-a-good-sign.html?ana=RSS%26s=article_search
Quote from: stephendare on October 20, 2016, 04:54:57 PM
This just in from JTA:
"The article from the JBJ and reported on WJCT on the future of the Skyway deserves clarification. Last year when we were evaluating the future of the Skyway, we were pessimistic about the feasibility of overhauling the existing Skyway vehicles. Over the past year, we have made progress with the vehicles that is encouraging and may allow us to get more life out of the vehicles. At the same time we are evaluating what vehicle would ultimately replace the current vehicles and how to approach system expansion. Our approach has made no determination as to the nature of potential extensions but we are evaluating whether a future vehicle could allow for an extension at-grade. This will be addressed in our report to the Board in December."
You can run monorails at grade.
It requires either the road treat it like a railroad crossing with crossing guards and a small 2 part drawspan that pulls up when the monorail cars come by, and then rests on the center rail the rest of the time or reverse the method and have a 2 part drawspan that only comes down when the monorail triggers the sensor, kind of like the FEC rail bridge, which stays up until a train comes.
Crossing a railroad is a different matter. With the FEC being the only railroad in town near the Skyway at the moment, they would probably require a permanent, non-moveable span.
Quote from: spuwho on October 21, 2016, 01:18:42 PM
You can run monorails at grade.
It requires either the road treat it like a railroad crossing with crossing guards and a small 2 part drawspan that pulls up when the monorail cars come by, and then rests on the center rail the rest of the time or reverse the method and have a 2 part drawspan that only comes down when the monorail triggers the sensor, kind of like the FEC rail bridge, which stays up until a train comes.
Crossing a railroad is a different matter. With the FEC being the only railroad in town near the Skyway at the moment, they would probably require a permanent, non-moveable span.
Thanks for that, Spuwho. I don't know anything about monorails. I'd love to see the Skyway extended (a lot), in one form or another. I do think it needs to be at grade as opposed to elevated.
Expanding the existing system at grade through the surrounding neighborhoods is a non starter. Period. Sounds very Jacksonville though ;)
Quote from: spuwho on October 21, 2016, 01:18:42 PM
You can run monorails at grade.
So possible but not terribly practical. ;)