New downtown skatepark on the way. Where should it go?
(http://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Downtown-Skatepark/i-VfsrHm4/0/L/Portlandskate-L.jpg)
A new skatepark appears to be on its way to downtown Jacksonville. However, an exact site has not been selected. Here's a look at the locations under consideration and an offer for your voice to be heard on where this skatepark should go.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2016-oct-new-downtown-skatepark-on-the-way-where-should-it-go
I like the Brooklyn site since it's close to where people actually live.
Very cool that this is happening. My vote goes to Main Street Pocket Park. Would love to have it right in the core and hopefully sprawl more activity of young people downtown.
I was looking at the property at the corner of Dennis & Myrtle last weekend thinking what a great skate park it would make. Covered, industrial so no one can complain about noise, parking.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w91/nikromatt/Screen%20Shot%202016-10-04%20at%209.16.31%20AM.png)
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on October 04, 2016, 09:13:11 AM
Very cool that this is happening. My vote goes to Main Street Pocket Park. Would love to have it right in the core and hopefully sprawl more activity of young people downtown.
I agree in principal that it would be great to have the skate park in the downtown core, but I don't like this Main Street spot for it. This is incredibly valuable property -- particularly if/when the Laura Street Trio happens -- in a key location that could be used in a thousand better ways. That pocket park never should have been built in the first place. It was a stupid project, doomed to fail, and it still blows my mind every time I walk by it. We should be doing everything in our power to get this property (and nearby Snynder Memorial) into the hands of a smart developer, rather than committing it long-term as a skate park.
It has to be downtown instead of Brooklyn or it totally loses the point of keeping skaters from skating downtown.
Quote from: Bike Jax on October 04, 2016, 09:33:10 AM
I was looking at the property at the corner of Dennis & Myrtle last weekend thinking what a great skate park it would make. Covered, industrial so no one can complain about noise, parking.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w91/nikromatt/Screen%20Shot%202016-10-04%20at%209.16.31%20AM.png)
That's either FDOT or FEC property. COJ doesn't have any control of that space.
I voted for the two park idea. The smaller Brooklyn spot for a diy park / potential to build something nicer in the future, but spend the money on the main Street one. Like Steven said it's clearly visible to millions of people every year and would bring more young people downtown. Those young people would be close to a few shops and restaurants where they can spend a few bucks on a snack, drink or more. It would also give the local government a better image, showing that they are capable of addressing an issue in a positive manner rather than policing people who are underserved.
How is number 1 on the list? Isn't that adjacent to Shiloh Baptist?
^It's a public park in LaVilla:
http://www.moderncities.com/article/2016-oct-new-downtown-skatepark-on-the-way-where-should-it-go/page/1
Over the years, everything but the baptist church has been demolished around it.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 04, 2016, 11:47:35 AM
^It's a public park in LaVilla:
http://www.moderncities.com/article/2016-oct-new-downtown-skatepark-on-the-way-where-should-it-go/page/1
Over the years, everything but the baptist church has been demolished around it.
Which do you prefer?
Personally? I'm not a skateboarder but out of those choices, the Main Street Pocket Park.
From a planning and social justice perspective, I don't like the idea of pushing certain segments of the population out of mind, out of sight. The majority of these sites do that.
Also, the Main Street pocket park is a high visibility eyesore that should have never been built. This at least salvages the space, turning it into something useful that attracts young people in the heart of the downtown Northbank.
More people within a compact setting helps build a critical mass of foot traffic, which naturally opens to the door to market rate economic opportunity for other uses and activities.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 04, 2016, 12:22:07 PM
Personally? I'm not a skateboarder but out of those choices, the Main Street Pocket Park.
From a planning and social justice perspective, I don't like the idea of pushing certain segments of the population out of mind, out of sight. The majority of these sites do that.
Also, the Main Street pocket park is a high visibility eyesore that should have never been built. This at least salvages the space, turning it into something useful that attracts young people in the heart of the downtown Northbank.
More people within a compact setting helps build a critical mass of foot traffic, which naturally opens to the door to market rate economic opportunity for other uses and activities.
+1
Yes. The pocket park never made much sense. This would at least provide a purpose.
You guys make some great points about visibility and foot traffic, but to me, replacing the pocket park at Main Street with a skate park feels like a short-term, desperate fix that could also have extremely damaging long-term repercussions.
Why?
1) It's taking potentially taxable property off the books. Look at the aerial. If we're even partially optimistic and assume that sometime in the next five years a couple of projects fall into place (any combination of Laura Street, the Barnett, Hemming, the Landing, etc.) and our Northbank sees an uptick in vibrancy, I cannot identify an undeveloped property in the vicinity of the CBD with more potential market value than that Main Street parcel. It fronts our central library, and is barely a block removed from Hemming Park, a Skyway Station, 11E, the Carling, City Hall, the Laura Street Trio, the Barnett, etc. As Ennis has alluded to in past pieces, there are a ton of very tangible reasons to be excited about the future of our downtown core. Plus, our capital project spending is set to see a substantial increase beginning next year. As a city, we have to start behaving strategically, as if good things are going to happen, and start thinking through how these projects should integrate, rather than just throwing shit at the wall with no rhyme or reason. To me, building a skate part on such prime real estate is betting against the long-term value of the property and potentially shorting the city hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue that could be dumped back into improving downtown.
(https://s21.postimg.org/93hd4o20n/Capture.jpg)
2) It's not the best use for the property. On the long list of needs for our downtown core -- affordable workforce housing, mixed use development, retail, 24/7 vibrancy etc. -- a skate park, likely accessed by vehicle by suburban kids, is near the bottom. Is there a place for it elsewhere downtown or in Brooklyn? Absolutely. Should it be gifted property right in the middle of our urban core? I'd argue no. Not because I hate skateboarders, but because I'd argue that it's not a complementing use in an area where complementing use is badly needed. In that same aerial, try to identify blocks and sidewalks that are actually activated during the weekends. This property screams mixed-use/ground level retail that adds around the clock vibrancy, not a skatepark that will sit empty during the week, and add nothing at night.
3) It's exclusionary. Though I'm not a 'boarder myself, I appreciate the sport and love the fact that it gives kids a safe, creative outlet. That said, we're talking about giving the back porch of our beautiful central library to a use case that only an insanely small portion of our local population will be able to enjoy. Based on research from the Public Skate Park Development Group (http://publicskateparkguide.org), the overwhelming majority of skateboarders are under the age of 18. And about 1.7% of those youths are considered the "core skaters" who would frequent a skate park. If we crunch the census numbers, and assumed no competition from any other skateparks in the city, we're talking a user base, at max, of about 8,000 total kids. 83.4% male, 73% white, 40% of whom are between 6 and 12 years old. I don't want to push anybody out of sight or out of mind, but I also hate the idea of taking a huge chunk of strategically vital land and building something that only a few thousand little white boys (who can afford the $200 barrier to entry) will enjoy, to the exclusion of the other 99% of our population (including the poor, the handicapped, the elderly, etc.) These tikes probably also aren't the people who are going to be sticking around, spending money, and contributing to the overall vitality of downtown Jacksonville.
Though I genuinely respect all of your opinions, man do I dislike the Main Street idea. We need to hold that property close to our chest until the right use comes up. And keep fixing Hemming while we're at it, before overwhelming that space with an influx of refugees from the pocket park.
Most obvious solution to this whole thing, by the way, seems to be to just let the damn kids skate downtown if they want. A few hundreds kids skating around our downtown streets on Saturday morning will do worlds more to bolster the perception of vibrancy than having a few hundred kids riding around in a concrete hole in a fenced in multi-million dollar property behind the library.
I'll play the roll of devil's advocate.
1) - It's already an existing park, so it's already off the books. Parks are rarely eliminated and given up for private development. So in this case, you'd be adding life and positive activity to an existing public space.
2) - Urban kids and young adults skate too. Depending on the design, a park could have activity during the day and night. Jax probably wouldn't do it, but you could even put a retail kiosk/shipping container in the space for additional activity or revenue generation.
3) - It would only be exclusionary if designed to be exclusionary. To me a skate feature would be like sticking a basketball, volleyball or tennis court in a park. They don't make parks exclusionary. They add activity.
Overall, I think the outcome would be dependent on design. It doesn't have to be 100% concrete with a huge fence around it. In fact, I hope it would not.
(http://www.lakelandgov.net/DesktopModules/Markit.SlideShow/ImageHandler.ashx?img=/Portals/parkrec/slideshow_photos/9871/skp%20(22).jpg&w=520&h=358&Q=0&PortalID=29)
(http://lagadoarchitects.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/westblaak-rotterdam-skatepark-lagado-architects-public-space-urban-youth-play-opening8-1024x681.jpg)
I've heard this park may be built across the street from RAM under the I95 bridge once the widening is
complete. Anywhere under a bridge would be ideal from a skating perspective.
I voted for Main Street, right now it's wasted space.
KenFSU, 100% correct. Not even a close call.
I'll chime in. I grew up skating and still skate to this day. Main St park is a good option as well as a DIY spot. KenFSU, I'll address a few of your points.
1) It's taking potentially taxable property off the books.
Nope. It's currently not taxable and won't be for the foreseeable future. It's already a public park and will most likely stay that way for years as others have mentioned.
2) It's not the best use for the property.
Again, it's already a pubic park and will stay that way for a while. I'd rather see it become a skatepark/skate plaza.
3) It's exclusionary.
With your logic every sport/activity is exclusionary. You obviously don't know anything about skate culture, but it's not just for "little white boys". Also those "tikes" probably will be sticking around, spending money, and contributing to the overall vitality of downtown Jacksonville. How? By skating over to Chamblins or Burrito Gallery and buying lunch or dinner.
Speaking as a skater, to me it's very inclusive. Skating doesn't care about your economic background, color of your skin or religion... all it cares about is that you skate. Go to the next Go Skate Day and witness the diversity.
Downtown is pretty much a ghost town unless an event is going on so I'd love to see some vibrancy in the form of a skatepark downtown.
Stephen/Ennis, thanks for all of the info. Particularly in regards to the difficulty in reverting a public park back to private space for development, your past discussions on the issue, and the economic impact pieces. Really do like the layout of that urban skate park that you shared too, Ennis. I'm warmer to the idea if the park interfaces as nicely into the urban fabric as this one does. I still question whether it's the best long-term use for that property, but you guys have successfully convinced me that it's probably the best use right now. Might realistically be a while before there's a market for a major mixed-use development on that site.
Solid argument, fellas :)
^^Changing your viewpoint based on evidence and thoughtful discussion. All hope for humanity is not lost. lol
Quote from: RatTownRyan on October 10, 2016, 11:08:01 AM
^^Changing your viewpoint based on evidence and thoughtful discussion. All hope for humanity is not lost. lol
"When the facts change, I change my mind." - John Maynard Keynes
:) :) :)
Welcome, Ryan!