Baltimore city council commited $660M of public financing to support a $5.5 Billion urban renewal project.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSKCN11Q1XK (http://mobile.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSKCN11Q1XK)
Is the Port Covington project similar to the Shipyards?
They are making a 20 year commitment to Sagamore to turn the urban district around.
Can Jacksonville make the same commitment?
Port Covington is more like The District.
(http://southbmore.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Screen-Shot-2016-03-14-at-2.31.15-PM-2.png)
(http://www.trbimg.com/img-568c090e/turbine/bs-bz-sagamore-master-plan-20160105)
(http://southbmore.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/IMG_2218.jpg)
Suddenly I'm not feeling so sorry for those Baltimore guys...
I dont think Rummell was putting $5.5B into the District.
COJ wasnt selling any bonds to finance the infrastructure either.
Seems like much larger scope than the District, yes?
^$800 million, for the District.
Quote from: spuwho on September 20, 2016, 04:33:32 PM
I dont think Rummell was putting $5.5B into the District.
COJ wasnt selling any bonds to finance the infrastructure either.
Seems like much larger scope than the District, yes?
We don't have anything the scale of what's mushrooming in the heart of Baltimore. The District would be the closest. The Shipyards isn't a real proposal at this point and it's only 40 acres or so. In terms of public money being spent, the only plus billion dollar project we're trying to pull off is the outer beltway...or whatever it's being called these days.
Like Detroit, Baltimore has a homegrown guy bringing lots of money into the city core. The founder of Under Armour has decided to "protect this house." Jacksonville simply doesn't have that yet...and before someone brings up Khan, let me clearly state there is no comparison.
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 20, 2016, 09:55:33 PM
Like Detroit, Baltimore has a homegrown guy bringing lots of money into the city core. The founder of Under Armour has decided to "protect this house." Jacksonville simply doesn't have that yet...and before someone brings up Khan, let me clearly state there is no comparison.
Ed Ball?
Don't let that Baltimore incident fools you. I can tell you from my experience after living in MD and the Washington area for more than 20 years, Maryland is still one of the top 5 richest States in the country by(GDP). Virginia also is quiet Rich. MARYLAND a small State compares to Florida but with lots of money , lots of jobs and tech jobs. But (unfortunately those bums living in Baltimore were not interesting to work for a living. They were only interesting in destroying the city like they did in Detroit). Also Maryland has 2 NFL teams playing in the States Baltimore Ravens and the Redskins. Also they have professional Hockey team, Baseball and NBA more than 6 casinos including the New $1.5 billions MGM that schedule to open in 6 months.
Maryland and Virginia are the place to be for Anybody who wants to start a new life, who want to make some descent money. Although the cost of living is high, but at least if you manage well your money you should be fine
Quote from: stephendare on September 20, 2016, 10:59:55 PM
Quote from: spuwho on September 20, 2016, 10:21:04 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 20, 2016, 09:55:33 PM
Like Detroit, Baltimore has a homegrown guy bringing lots of money into the city core. The founder of Under Armour has decided to "protect this house." Jacksonville simply doesn't have that yet...and before someone brings up Khan, let me clearly state there is no comparison.
Ed Ball?
It really isn't a comparison. Ed Ball was never a person who spent on the actual town. Every dime he spent was either to enrich his own position, or to exert power. More like Khan than either of the two TUFSU is referring to.
Sorry Stephen, I was being a bit sarcastic and left off that winky smiley. :)
I cant recall if Jacksonville has ever had its own Henry Flagler in its history.
Wayne and Delores have been heros of the local arts and non-profit scenes. Delores took a crack at development, but her timing just wasn't quite right and I think that prevented further projects.
What UA is doing is a completely different animal. Here's a few images from our Baltimore trip a few months back:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Baltimore-April-2016/i-Nmtc9Wn/0/L/DSCF9981-L.jpg)
They renovated a closed detergent plant into their headquarters. Each building name pays homage to the products once produced there.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Baltimore-April-2016/i-vCSMDHk/0/L/DSCF9985-L.jpg)
What they've done with their headquarters would be like someone going into Talleyrand, retrofitting the Ford plant and opening the property up so Eastside residents could have access to the riverfront.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Baltimore-April-2016/i-cvH768Q/0/L/DSCF9954-L.jpg)
Even fuel storage tanks can become a canvas for artwork and murals.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Baltimore-April-2016/i-KvbGjdB/0/L/DSCF9988-L.jpg)
Mixing industry with waterfront public space. Talk about desegregation of land uses. Now Locust Point residents can access and enjoy the Inner Harbor, despite having a waterfront dominated by industrial use.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Baltimore-April-2016/i-X2xB4Rw/0/L/DSCF9986-L.jpg)
Pretty cool design of a public space that also plays homage to the company's brand.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Baltimore-April-2016/i-QdKt7XM/0/L/DSCF9995-L.jpg)
So even a passive space becomes one for active use because its design encourages physical activity.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Baltimore-April-2016/i-wk334vk/0/L/DSCF0031-L.jpg)
On the other side of the harbor, the hometown company invests in a flagship retail operation. We haven't witnessed this type of stuff since the closing of May-Cohens and Furchgott's.
Quote from: stephendare on September 21, 2016, 12:07:41 AM
Quote from: spuwho on September 20, 2016, 11:49:04 PM
Quote from: stephendare on September 20, 2016, 10:59:55 PM
Quote from: spuwho on September 20, 2016, 10:21:04 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 20, 2016, 09:55:33 PM
Like Detroit, Baltimore has a homegrown guy bringing lots of money into the city core. The founder of Under Armour has decided to "protect this house." Jacksonville simply doesn't have that yet...and before someone brings up Khan, let me clearly state there is no comparison.
Ed Ball?
It really isn't a comparison. Ed Ball was never a person who spent on the actual town. Every dime he spent was either to enrich his own position, or to exert power. More like Khan than either of the two TUFSU is referring to.
Sorry Stephen, I was being a bit sarcastic and left off that winky smiley. :)
I cant recall if Jacksonville has ever had its own Henry Flagler in its history.
I suspected as much.
Ive been giving a lot of thought to the messiah technique of downtown redevelopment, and I don't like it much, lol. Never did.
Its the problem with monarchies. Eventually the king dies.
But as for your list of Flagler types, here is a list:
Abraham Lincoln Lewis, Alfred Dupont, William Astor, Paran Moody, Francis Fatio L'Engle. (and the L'Engle family in general) Ira Koger, and a few others. There have been several great men throughout the course of our history. The Stocktons would qualify as well. We will see what Preston Haskell and John Peyton do before they pass into history.
Where do the Skinners, Cesery's, Weavers, Davis' Family land.
I think just last week Dan Davis cut a check to Mayo Clinc Jacksonville for some $7 milllion for the just announced $150 million expansion.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 21, 2016, 09:28:45 AM
What UA is doing is a completely different animal. Here's a few images from our Baltimore trip a few months back
Pretty disappointed that I missed this portion of Baltimore and the trip.
That is an interesting perspective.
Do you think in today's hyper-political environment, it is even possible for a family or wealthy local to contribute in a way as you describe?
I have seen small towns in other states turn down large "legacy" gifts because they were afraid the giver was going to want to much in return or want too much control after the fact.
Chicago's Montgomery Ward made the city sign a legal compact to keep Grant Park free of obstruction as part of his gift. (Though they have been pushing it to the limit as of late). Some donors today get offended when a local municipality treats a legacy gift as a legal arrangement. Many cities don't like the strings attached to the gift.
Before the descendants of the McCormick Family (invented the reaper) would donate their land to a local forest preserve, they made the government entity sign a legal agreement that the land would never, ever, be sold or built upon unless it was for public use. It took many years to get that down. The McCormicks had seen other wealthy families land donations turned into something they had never anticipated and were going to hold the government accountable.
So what if one of the families of Jax set up a foundation for Hogan's Creek? It would pay to maintain the Klutho designs and the waterway. Would that be legacy?
What if Shad Khan buys the Shipyards, pays to clean it up, builds a multi-purpose park? Does that pass the legacy litmus test?
If Peter Rummell pays for a $25M Jacksonville Historical Center for the JHS, where people can see the local history, is that legacy?
Quote from: Adam White on September 20, 2016, 02:22:05 PM
Suddenly I'm not feeling so sorry for those Baltimore guys...
+1
2014-305
2014-412
2015-397
2015-777 the District
2016-18 Our secret FIND list and the ADA gang. We are so LOST.
Stay Positive!
Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 21, 2016, 09:03:00 AM
Wayne and Delores have been heros of the local arts and non-profit scenes. Delores took a crack at development, but her timing just wasn't quite right and I think that prevented further projects.
the Weavers are as close as we get right now. While one can argue that Wayne didn't invest properly in the Jags, he and Delores have been very kind to this community.
So in an attempt to recircle the conversation back to the topic.
Under Armour seems to take their placement and history relative to Baltimore pretty seriously. The founder seems to be keenly interested in relating his company to Baltimore's past (naming parts of the HQ after the soaps formerly made there).
Stephen made some excellent points of perspective on how do ( or don't) our local corporate entities express themselves.
We have lots of financial benefactors it seems (which is healthy), but we struggle to apply it to the soul of the city.
Medical Centers, Business Schools, Office parks, all acquire benefactors and their names, but Stephen has raised an apparent gap in how many of our benefactors desire to apply their collective generosity.
That by the way is not a criticism, its just an observation.
No. We probably did them a favor. It's not like they were getting rich running mostly empty boats between the North and Southbanks.
In the same way that governments may not accept grants due to the demands of people, I have seen the opposite take place. I watched $700k worth of money get pulled back because of nonsensical restrictions the state wanted to put on it. The donor wanted to take advantage of a state match, but the state required things that weren't fiscally responsible. The donor took back their gift until the state changes its policy.
^The "Baltimore guys" were the people who used to run the water taxis downtown.
QuoteSince last year, a company called Harbor Care out of Baltimore has run the water taxi service and had plans to improve the fleet.
"Add elements of entertainment, narrated tours to public service announcements like you have on airlines," McDaniel said.
The company was also planning to offer private charters, group rates, themed rides, accept credit cards and give free tickets to military members. McDaniel said he was under the impression his company was going to be getting a long-term contract with the city. But Harbor Care and the city weren't able to come to terms.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/local/city-reaches-solution-to-save-water-taxis
I honestly had no idea who the "Baltimore guys" were or why we should be sorry for them. I had a vague memory that they had something to do with the water taxi, but that's about it. Are we sure Noone is a real person and not malfunctioning spambot?
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on September 22, 2016, 11:03:58 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 22, 2016, 09:07:30 AM
No. We probably did them a favor. It's not like they were getting rich running mostly empty boats between the North and Southbanks.
Thank you for a sincere answer to a stupid comment :D I don't even know what the "Does anyone feel sorry for the Baltimore guys" means or references, I just know I kept seeing it everywhere on here for a while and think it's hilarious.
Does anyone else feel sorry for the Baltimore guys 2014-412? Is from watching how a business can be shut down and kicked out and there are dozens of examples to choose from especially as it relates to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative in our new 2014-560 CRA/DIA zone and according to a CRA consultant is 4.8 miles of the Rivers Edge from the Fuller Warren Bridge to the Mathews Bridge.
The biggest news story in the state should be the manipulation of our FIND dollars. We are so LOST
Baltimore commits?
Jacksonville commits?
At the 9/14/16 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting the omission of 2016-18. The ADA kayak launch at the DISTRICT School Board property next to the 2015-777 DISTRICT with changing players. Rummell and Balanky now Rummell and Munz.
Baltimore commits?
Jacksonville commits?
Where is Boyer, Bailey, Vitti, Wallace, Allegretti, Crawford, Smith-Juarez, Shine, Bowman, Pringle, Mousa, Curry, Ross, Alabiso, Wilson, Redman, Love, Ferraro, Brown, Crescimbeni, Beth Meyer, Jen Jones, Dawn Emerick, Tony Lopez, Tera Meeks, Brian Burkett, Jody McDaniel, Ron Littlepage, Lisa Rinaman, John Delaney, Mark Middlebrook, Donald J. Trump, Jessie Watters, Bill O'Reilly? 2016-18 is ACTIVE legislation. The ADA (Americans W/Disabilities Act) kayak launch at the School Board DISTRICT property. I'm ALL IN.
Seriously. Where is the leadership?
Visit Jacksonville! Mr. Paul Astleford