http://www.oceanwalkshoppes.com/mediaroom.html
Why doesn't Jacksonville use the power of it's beaches? It wants more business investment, more convention draw ability, more companies, etc. Hello? YOU'RE IN FLORIDA!! Develop the beaches.
With the exception of Orlando and two major university towns (Tallahassee and Gainesville), every other Florida city has reaped tremendous rewards from developing their beaches as a very interesting and powerful destination draw. And one doesn't have to descend into "tourist trapism" to do such a thing. The quiet nature of some areas can be let be as well.
Maybe with Daytona and Orlando so close, people just don't want to bother with entertainment/destination spot draws I dunno.
I fail to see what you mean.
We have plenty of hotels and restaurants in Jax/Atlantic beach for tourists, and then the Lodge, Club, etc. for the resort-types. There are plenty of tourist attractions at the beach, including the beauty of the beaches themselves, without it looking like the disgusting hell holes that are Daytona and Panama City, for example.
Oceanwalk Shoppes might be the tackiest development on Florida's east coast. I think we'll leave that to Daytona Beach.
Anyone that has lived at the beaches will agree that our coast is already over-developed. I have zero desire for developments that contribute to making Jacksonville a spring break hot-spot.
Quote from: Eazy E on July 16, 2008, 09:00:27 AM
I fail to see what you mean.
We have plenty of hotels and restaurants in Jax/Atlantic beach for tourists, and then the Lodge, Club, etc. for the resort-types. There are plenty of tourist attractions at the beach, including the beauty of the beaches themselves, without it looking like the disgusting hell holes that are Daytona and Panama City, for example.
I agree with the 'hell hole' comment on Daytona. I stayed there for a few days last year. That place is a dump. I hadn't been in at least 5 years and now I remember why. I did eat at this OceanWalk. I think we're fine without a similar development.
Quote from: xian1118 on July 16, 2008, 09:25:20 AM
Oceanwalk Shoppes might be the tackiest development on Florida's east coast. I think we'll leave that to Daytona Beach.
Anyone that has lived at the beaches will agree that our coast is already over-developed. I have zero desire for developments that contribute to making Jacksonville a spring break hot-spot.
well said.
I concur.
Already having to deal with some of the people that trash our beaches is enough. No more development. No more tourist / spring break attractions. The beaches are perfect the way they are.
Quote from: copperfiend on July 16, 2008, 09:42:30 AM
I agree with the 'hell hole' comment on Daytona. I stayed there for a few days last year. That place is a dump. I hadn't been in at least 5 years and now I remember why. I did eat at this OceanWalk. I think we're fine without a similar development.
SHOOT MAN! you ain't never been down thare fer byyyke WEEEK? woahhhhhhh boy! ain't nothin like putin some leather on and ridin up and down a1a with my "if you can see this, the bitch fell off" t-shirt! and boy, I tell you whut, they got some of the nicest collections of confederate souvenir shops south of georgia.
If that ain't your thang maybe you can go to that internat'ntl speedway, they got some cars rayycin over thare and shooot bub, they go FAYASSST!!
"if you aint first, you're layyyst!" - Ricky Bobby.
LOL! My favorite T-Shirt of all time.
The "trashiness" is something I encountered as well. Perhaps the row of dated college-crowd bars and nightclubs, with little to offer kids, has something to do with that?
Spring breakers would NOT be the target here. Vacationing families, young professionals and international travellers would be.
Quote from: rjp2008 on July 16, 2008, 08:28:35 AM
Why doesn't Jacksonville use the power of it's beaches? It wants more business investment, more convention draw ability, more companies, etc. Hello? YOU'RE IN FLORIDA!! Develop the beaches.
Keep in mind that Jacksonville, as a political entity, doesn't really have beaches to develop. The beaches are mostly seperate small towns. Jacksonville has no authority over Jax Beach, Altantic, Neptune, etc. The only real beachfront real estate in Jax is the Navy Base, Hanna Park, and a few suburban cul-de-sac style developments. None of those will be developed any time soon, if ever.
Also, look no further than basstacular's post as to why the Jax Beaches towns shun development.
"The beaches are perfect the way they are." Personally, I find that the Jax Beaches are dirty, podunk, and totally underutilized. But the majority of Jax Beaches residents apparently love it that way. I think they are crazy, but that's their opinion, and they have a right to it.
So the residents of the Jax Beaches will continue to vote to prevent any kind of urban development from "ruining" their little slice of paradise. That's just the way it's going to be.
I agree with that. I think our city's a notch above having to draw the spring break crowds.
Daytona's fun as a teenager/early 20 something, but I see Jax Beach aiming for a broader, less drunk demographc in the future.
Quote from: Joe on July 16, 2008, 11:43:32 AM
Quote from: rjp2008 on July 16, 2008, 08:28:35 AM
Why doesn't Jacksonville use the power of it's beaches? It wants more business investment, more convention draw ability, more companies, etc. Hello? YOU'RE IN FLORIDA!! Develop the beaches.
Also, look no further than basstacular's post as to why the Jax Beaches towns shun development. "The beaches are perfect the way they are." Personally, I find that the Jax Beaches are dirty, podunk, and totally underutilized. But the majority of Jax Beaches residents apparently love it that way. I think they are crazy, but that's their opinion, and they have a right to it.
So the residents of the Jax Beaches will continue to vote to prevent any kind of urban development from "ruining" their little slice of paradise. That's just the way it's going to be.
There have been tons more rental condos and rennovations to hotels made. 3rd st/A1A is (mostly) nice from JTB to Atlantic. Granted, there are some older rundown places on on 2nd and 3rd, but what are you going to do, seize their property and throw up another monstrosity of a condo? no thanks. the beaches truly are fine the way they are right now. i mean, are the beaches really lacking in tourists?
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1002/1097214163_0a6fc9fa0c.jpg)
Amazing and great development for Daytona's run down boardwalk district. It was still the place to be by 1968=75 and the street scene was like little San Francisco. They even had/have tunnels under the roads at the Beach. These tunnels we're the Western equal to Hong Kong's "Opium Dens". Some had unbelieveable lighting, mirrors, time-travel allusions-music-black light-sand floors.
I agree that our own beaches could use a touch of this for the youth... Well okay, maybe not the opium, but the activities. When I was little, we had a beautiful beach scene, people called the boardwalk at Jax Beach
"Cony Island South". Sadly the back-to-back tropical killer storms, Donna and Dora, tore Jacksonville - Atlantic - Neptune - Ponte Vedra and Mayport to microscopic dust. When it was all said and done, our beaches by 1965 looked like an atomic bomb test site. Lets work together and rebuild our beaches! Anyone up for a new "Hotel Continental?" ...
Wonder what the Streetcar would do rolling down the beachwalk? 3Rd? or?
OCKLAWAHA
QuoteLets work together and rebuild our beaches!
The Beaches do not need to be rebuilt. As has been mentioned previously, residents of the Beaches prefer their town the way it is and have proven so with their votes. I'm sure the majority of residents would not be happy with the construction of anOceanwalk Shoppes-type development.
On the Daytona comments, a few thoughts from when I lived down there/in the immediate area...
1) Daytona is a dive, plain and simple. The city as a whole is just run down, but their beachside/A1A is an absolute travesty. Outside of 2 or 3 hotels, most of it is rundown, dirty, or just plain uninviting. Friends used to joke that what Daytona really needs is a head-on hurricane so that they can just wipe out what's there and rebuild it intelligently (not that we actually wish a hurricane on anyone...just a figure of speech).
2) That said, the Oceanwalk down there is part of one of the best things to happen to that town in a while. The attempted cleanup of the stretch on both sides of the Hilton (formerly the Adams Mark), the Ocean Walk, the new resort next to it (Fairfield Resort I believe?), closing down the beach in that section for driving, etc, etc has made that section of Daytona FAR more enjoyable to go to. Knock the "tourist trap"-pyness of it all you want, it's clean, it's on the beach with a direct sightline, there's multiple restaurants (so what if they're chains? it's beachside...you want something quick and easy with a good drink selection), the nightlife is reasonable with good house bands at a few places, plus it's much more family friendly than Daytona as a whole.
3) Tying this into Jax Beach, I would love to see something like an Ocean Walk as part of an overall improvement down there. At the risk of making an overly broad generalization, being originally from the north, there's two big reasons to come to Florida - drink margaritas and otherwise have fun on the beaches, or go to the theme parks. The beaches here are about the most underutilized selling point for tourism. First off, outside of the Marriott Sawgrass, is there a full service vacation resort hotel beachside? I see a lot of select service hotels, but those in and of themselves don't draw (I'm sure they do well, but people on vacation don't say "Hey, I want to stay at a Courtyard!" or Holiday Inn or something. They'll say "OK, what's in the area I'm going to be for what price?"
With that said, my biggest problem with Jax Beach is something I'm not sure can be easily solved - the beach seems disconnected from everything else around it. There's plenty of restaurants and clubs along the boardwalk there, but the only restaurant that seems like it's "on the beach" is Joe's Crab Shack - the rest have their visibility cut off by the large dunes. I'm not saying the dunes are a bad thing or anything, but think about it in terms of "walk-ability" that's pushed for neighborhoods elsewhere on this site - part of the push is making everything seem connected and accessible. If I'm in Daytona (for all it's dive-ness) and go for a walk on the beach, everything up on the boardwalk and the other restaurants and clubs along the way look like their accessible and connected to the environment. A walk along the beach here, you'll see a handful of hotels, and that's it - it doesn't even look like there's anything up on the boardwalk (heck, my first few times here, I didn't even see ANYTHING, and it wasn't until someone pointed out that there were a few restaurants up there that I caught it). There's certainly something to be said for having an isolated beach area...using the Daytona comparison again, that's what the Wilbur-by-the-Sea/Ponce Inlet area is for - it's a half mile down from the Daytona craziness, it's usually deserted (even in the summer), it's clean, beautiful beaches, and a perfect place to go if you don't want the crowds. Plus, it gives people options - if I want the social, entertainment aspect, I go to the Ocean Walk area...if I just want to lay on the beach and not be disturbed, I go down to Wilbur.
SOMETHING needs to be done to improve the beachside experience here if the city wants to improve it's tourist draw. and an Ocean Walk type setup, as long as it's not standalone (i.e., attach it to a resort hotel or two like in Daytona) might be a real good starting point to improve things.
Just my $.02...
Thank for the responses. Thank you Ocka regarding the history - I didn't know. As I newcomer, I want to tread carefully, respectfully. People who've been here longer than me can say things more directness.
I grew up right near two MAJOR beach areas - Pt. Pleasant Beach NJ and Boynton/Delray Beach FL, and I've seen the effect that a good "beach destination area" can have on the local economy - HUGE. Note: These areas did being BOTH low-key AND having quality destination spots.
Why care about any of this? Many here talk about "improving Jacksonville" and "moving forward" and "waking up". There are numerous campaigns to attract businesses and residents to the urban core.
However, a Florida beaches area (from intercoastal to the beach) is an asset unlike any other. If people know it's an awesome place, a well-kept jewel, they will flock to live in urban Jacksonville just to be close to the awesome Jacksonville beach.
Expanding, upgrading and beautifying the boardwalk (stonewalk) area would be terrific. Longer/wider path. More washing stations, water fountains, grilling areas, more food vendors. Turn some of those club areas that are dead during the day into family-oriented destinations. Cultivate a fitness reputation instead of a Daytona-ish one (college binging).
QuoteThe Beaches do not need to be rebuilt. As has been mentioned previously, residents of the Beaches prefer their town the way it is and have proven so with their votes. I'm sure the majority of residents would not be happy with the construction of anOceanwalk Shoppes-type development.
(http://historicaltextarchive.com/beaches/cont_veran.jpg)
veranda from the hotel Continental at Atlantic Beach
I didn't suggest importation of Miami or Boca here, I said let's REBUILD at least to the point we lost in the twin storms of 1960-64. Perhaps you are too young to remember them, or perhaps you were not here at the time, but Jacksonville and it's beaches were called "The QUEEN OF THE WINTER RESORTS".
(http://historicaltextarchive.com/ADAMS/image006.jpg)
Hotel Continental
Our giant Hotel Continental was a true marvel and had it's own railroad station, as well as a direct highway link to downtown Jax.. The railroad before it was carelessly torn out, was nearly saved and converted into a true interurban electric commuter line by City Councilman St. Elmo Acosta. Jacksonville Beach WITH roller coaster and midway, with boardwalk. Fill the empty spaces with shopping and dining. Bottom line, the more business we drum up at the beach, the less everyone out here pays for taxes and services. I'd like to see us go back and reclaim our own beach heritage and charm.
(http://historicaltextarchive.com/ADAMS/image037.jpg)
1928 a 98' tall roller coaster was built that reached speeds of 50 MPH. It was removed and replaced by another one with was taken down by God.
Someone else suggested mowing down the dunes to make that a better board walk. Sorry to say after we lost the beaches of South Florida and New York, somebody finally figured out that the dunes are what keeps the beach fresh, sandy and maintence free. Remove the dunes and the sea shoreline, would march toward the San Pablo River. No kidding, it would be a disaster. Thank God we HAVE the dunes. OCKLAWAHA
If I may indulge in a bit of visioning here...
You're heading down Beach Blvd, just crossed over the Intercoastal Bridge, and right after Penman the road changes to:
- Wider pavered street with sidewalks on both sides
- Palm tree dotted median
- 1-2 story Buildings right on the sidewalks all the way to the beach
- A single row of angled parking in front of the sidewalks
- Along this strip are:
-----top notch restaurants
-----grocers
-----retail
-----historical museums
-----art galleries
-----upscale club or two
Ahhhh, sounds wonderful. Who's gonna pay for it?
QuoteYou're heading down Beach Blvd, just crossed over the Intercoastal Bridge, and right after Penman the road changes to:
- Wider pavered street with sidewalks on both sides
- Palm tree dotted median
- 1-2 story Buildings right on the sidewalks all the way to the beach
- A single row of angled parking in front of the sidewalks
- Along this strip are:
-----top notch restaurants
-----grocers
-----retail
-----historical museums
-----art galleries
-----upscale club or two
The area north of Beach Blvd and east of 3rd Street (1st, 2nd, 3rd, Ave. N) has someof what you are referring to. As does the Town Center area in Atlantic Beach at the end of Atlantic Blvd.
I'm buying a lotto ticket today. If I hit the big one I'll throw down on some development!
Great pics Ock. I've never see the last photo before.
Quote from: David on July 16, 2008, 11:13:28 AM
Quote from: copperfiend on July 16, 2008, 09:42:30 AM
I agree with the 'hell hole' comment on Daytona. I stayed there for a few days last year. That place is a dump. I hadn't been in at least 5 years and now I remember why. I did eat at this OceanWalk. I think we're fine without a similar development.
SHOOT MAN! you ain't never been down thare fer byyyke WEEEK? woahhhhhhh boy! ain't nothin like putin some leather on and ridin up and down a1a with my "if you can see this, the bitch fell off" t-shirt! and boy, I tell you whut, they got some of the nicest collections of confederate souvenir shops south of georgia.
If that ain't your thang maybe you can go to that internat'ntl speedway, they got some cars rayycin over thare and shooot bub, they go FAYASSST!!
"if you aint first, you're layyyst!" - Ricky Bobby.
HEY....I resemble that remark. ;D
Must have left the rebel flag at home.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/93sportie/MemorialDayJax021.jpg)
And if you see this around Downtown, say hi, I may buy the next round.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/93sportie/Maters5-5-07007.jpg)
Sorry, you can resume thread now.
I kid because I love. Although Daytona beach isn't my favorite vacation spot, I am lusting after a cruiser lately. Doing some shopping, but I digress, different thread.