http://wonkette.com/401108/no-gun-giveaway-for-churchgoing-youngsters-this-year
One sad Oklahoma church won’t be giving away a very special semiautomatic assault rifle to one lucky boy or girl who loves the Lord.
The Windsor Hills Baptist Church is holding a youth conference next week, which will feature “21 hours of preaching and teaching.â€
A shootin’ contest was also on the docket until the gentleman running the sacred event had to stay home because of “bone spurs on his foot†or somesuch (that is what they say in the church video, here) so now the winner won’t get an AR-15 semiautomatic assault rifle, and Jesus weeps
http://www.koco.com/news/16860079/detail.html
In many rural areas, turkey shoots and "shooting contests" are quite common. They are a holdover from when these areas were frontiers of the US. My grandmother remembered indian raids when she was a kid! I owned a rifle before I started school. I carried a rifle in the gunrack of my truck all through high school, as did most everyone else. (It was used against predators and pests.) It is just a different culture Stephen. I'm still shocked at how scared of guns some people are. Folks just have different starting points sometimes.
Indian raids ?
You must be a grandfather yourself for that to be true.
No one should fear hunters having their guns, and everyone, including hunters, should fear anyone having an uzi.
As with most issues, the extremist define the terms of the debate, which is a shame.
I agree NotNow, I have had guns all my life. In turn, have been taught how to handle guns all my life and now sale guns but it might be a little over the top to give them away at a youth event...Not sure that would even be legal in this state.
By the way, you better get your AR-15's before January, they will probably be banned again.
I have 3 firearms. And they have never jumped up and shot anyone. I enjoy hunting also but also I maintain them for self-defense and to exercise my Constitutional rights.
Raids by indians and mexican bandits continued in SW Texas into the twentieth century. The stories that my grandmother told dated from the 1890's, when she was a child. I was adopted into the family and my folks were quite older than norm.
I didn't want to turn this into a second amendment debate, but the second has nothing to do with hunting. My point is that the culture of that area is different from what many here are used to. Since we are trying to be so sensitive to other cultures, lets try to be at least as accomodating to what many Americans define as theirs. Thanks.
Okay did no one notice that it was a church group giving away this gun.....
That's the appalling part to me.....
I'm not a big fan of guns, but I do believe it's your right to own them.....
But churches should not promote giving a gun away as a prize
And if you believe it's okay then why don't you take your gun to church....
I would not feel comfortable giving away a gun at a YOUTH event. I do know churches that have given away guns for mens retreats and outings, I don't have a problem at all with that.
Stephen, not all handguns are bad, with the proper training. A handgun kept my wife and my father in law from being robbed in a hotel parking lot one night.
Well I'm a gun owner and user. However I don't know about a church giving them away!
To me the fact that you believe in an invisible man in the sky who does magic indicates that your already a bit too mentally unstable to own guns!
Quote from: adamh0903 on July 15, 2008, 11:07:11 PM
Stephen, not all handguns are bad, with the proper training. A handgun kept my wife and my father in law from being robbed in a hotel parking lot one night.
that is amazing. thanks for sharing the story adam.
No I didn't freak out...
I'm too busy reloading!
Gentlemen - I've removed some of the posts. If anyone has an issue with my edits, please PM me.
Let's cut the garbage out.
Quote from: stephendare on July 15, 2008, 10:30:29 PM
I think Avon lives in Avondale.
I think its kind of appalling that churches would be giving away a semi automatic rifle to anyone.
But this is the world we live in.
I do think that an event like this plays into the perception that the american fundamentalist community has morphed into something with very little resemblance to the philosophy of the Prince of Peace.
1) I read the actual story (not the wonkette take on it) and they did not mentioned the type of semi-automatic rifle.
2) Even if it was semi-auto, this just means it fires each time you pull the trigger not that it is a machine gun. Many legal pistols and shotguns are made this way. It is common to use such shotguns in bird hunts, for example.
3) There is no Biblical problem with owning or giving away firearms provided that the intended use is legitimate. Hunting would clearly be appropriate in a Christian context.
Quote
BTW, notnow, real fan of the second amendment here. Would much prefer people to posess rifles for self defense and hunting than uzi's or handguns though, as the former is clearly for use by a well provisioned citizenry.
An uzi is a fully automatic smaller weapon. This is not what was described here. Also, the 2d Amendment does not state that we can only have rifles for hunting. It clearly is meant to protect the citizens against both personal harm and government tyranny.
Quote
Avon, I certainly hope that we don't lose you as a poster.
Avon should stay, I agree. :)
i am a gun owner. and yes, i sometimes take my gun to church. not INTO the church mind you, but it will be in the car. it would be wonderful if thugs took Sundays off, but they do not.
Quote from: mkr32208 on July 15, 2008, 11:08:04 PM
Well I'm a gun owner and user. However I don't know about a church giving them away!
To me the fact that you believe in an invisible man in the sky who does magic indicates that your already a bit too mentally unstable to own guns!
Hope you like it hot. ;)
This to me is just a bizarre story - while guns were used for hunting by people of all ages, how did this seem like a good idea?
WTF? Now this entire post has become senseless... :-\
I think it would have been better to remove the entire thread than to parse it so that it just becomes nonsense.
Just my .02
Quote from: mkr32208 on July 16, 2008, 12:11:36 AM
WTF? Now this entire post has become senseless... :-\
I think it would have been better to remove the entire thread than to parse it so that it just becomes nonsense.
Just my .02
Sorry - not finished. I didn't want to lock the thread while I did it, because I didn't want to stop you guys from posting. I'll be done in a sec.
BTW - any chance of FBC downtown doing a promotion like this?
Quote from: Steve on July 15, 2008, 11:52:53 PM
Gentlemen - I've removed some of the posts. If anyone has an issue with my edits, please PM me.
Let's cut the garbage out.
Sorry Steve, I understand why you removed most of the posts to this topic.
I rarely lose it like I did tonight and since you did remove most of what was said some people who see this later may be completely confused. I want to clarify my views to those of you who were here for round 1, and why I reached the point that I did tonight.
I usually avoid the subjects of religion and politics for the exact reason this topic had to be edited.
But this one really struck a nerve with me and unfortunately it had a bit of both.....
I DON'T LIKE GUNS. All my family and friends know that, but they also know that I respect EVERYONE'S right to own one....
My whole reaction to this thread was the church involvement......if it had been any other organization I would have had little or no reaction since pretty much nothing surprises me anymore.
I just can't accept this practice as proper behavior for a Christian organization... “guns for god†was more than I could take.
It doesn't matter what kind of gun it was, although the website did show a semi automatic rifle....my reaction was that a CHURCH related event would give ANYONE ANY KIND OF GUN.
I also think every Christian on earth has a right to own a gun, but as the Bible states, for those who believe it, Isaiah chapter two speaks about how weapons would be remade into implements for farming and nations would not lift swords against each other and they would not go to war. The same message is in the book of Micah....
I am sure that those who disagree with me will find their own reasoning and I know there was much war and bloodshed in the Bible, but the people involved were not Christians. If you recall the only time one of Christ’s followers used a weapon against a person, (it was Peter when he cut off the ear of a Roman soldier when they came to take Jesus to kill him,) he was rebuked and told "those who live by the sword, die by the sword." So I don't think Jesus would tell you that you couldn’t have a sword but I doubt he would pass them out to his followers if he were on earth today.
Granted I am sure that the church did not intend to give a gun to someone for them to use it to kill a person. But the whole thing just doesn’t sit right no matter what argument is made as to the merits of guns. (killing for food, protection, etc. obtaining and owning a gun should be a secular thing.)
And even further on the subject, I agree that if you were in your home and someone threatened your family you would probably have time to use your gun to protect yourself, but I highly doubt that if someone decided to shoot you they would announce their intention and give you time to pull your gun.
So there you have my reasoning on this issue....
You may not agree with me, but you cannot say I did not voice my belief on the subject without something to back it up.
The offense to me tonight was not that another person disagreed with me, I think more than one did, it was how one particular individual took snippets of my post and made it personal by making little digs at each line they quoted. Disagreements are less offensive if they are not made personal as this person chose to do tonight. I was not the only one who shared this view, but I was the one this individual chose to put on center stage. That would be okay too, but not in the style this person put me on that stage. Sadly that’s how this person often behaves on this site and why I retaliated.
I won't open a new can of worms, but he thought I was a female, which was okay, and as Stephen pointed out I live in Avondale thus avonjax. He made it a point to say he would buy Avon from me. I want to point out that when you have obviously provoked someone it does not ease the tension when you choose to make what came a across as a sexist remark. And if he thought it was funny, it wasn’t. But he also makes snide remarks whether he has all the facts on an issue or not. He comes across as a person who just wants to start and argument for his personal entertainment. This is just another way for him to be antagonistic. But alas this is his signature style.
I originally mentioned his name before I edited this post, but after thinking about it for a while I realized it would only encourage his behavior.
After tonight I am really struggling about removing Metro Jacksonville from my favorites....
I have been coming to this site for a long, long time (I'm not sure how long this site has been around) and MetJax is usually the first site I come to EVERY day when I go online....
I tell everyone I talk to about this site and I encourage them to visit and use it.... I am very passionate about things I am fond of.
I have always looked to this site as a fine source of information. And on many subjects maybe the best source. But the antagonism that has reared its ugly head here lately has taken a lot of the pleasure out of being here.
My intention with this post is to alert those who choose to ignore any semblance of online etiquette by allowing their opposing opinions and views to come across as personal affronts, are robbing a valuable resource of its real intention, and threatening the ongoing use by some of its faithful followers.
Hey Avon,
I guess I am somewhat responsible for whatever happened here. I was just trying to say that the culture is defferent in OK than it is here. A lot of how we look at the world is based on our experiences. Local churches are representative of the community that they are in. I certainly understand your position, and encourage you to express it. I'm not the same man who left that small town to join the military many years ago, and I won't be the same in twenty years. We change and the world changes around us. That is what makes TRUTH so valuble. It does not change. Lets just all try to understand that.
Quote from: stephendare on July 15, 2008, 11:59:57 PM
Quote from: RiversideGator on July 15, 2008, 11:54:47 PM
Quote from: mkr32208 on July 15, 2008, 11:08:04 PM
Well I'm a gun owner and user. However I don't know about a church giving them away!
To me the fact that you believe in an invisible man in the sky who does magic indicates that your already a bit too mentally unstable to own guns!
Hope you like it hot. ;)
what a weird parsing of my post.
dude its like a fatal attraction isnt it?
I didnt say anyone was getting an uzi.
I was just stating my personal----as in my personal life---- feelings about fire arms, thats all.
I wasnt parsing your post. The post you cited wasnt even in reference to yours. And quit stating that I am attracted to you because I disagree with you. That is really getting bizarre.
Quote from: avonjax on July 16, 2008, 04:15:50 AMI have always looked to this site as a fine source of information. And on many subjects maybe the best source. But the antagonism that has reared its ugly head here lately has taken a lot of the pleasure out of being here.
My intention with this post is to alert those who choose to ignore any semblance of online etiquette by allowing their opposing opinions and views to come across as personal affronts, are robbing a valuable resource of its real intention, and threatening the ongoing use by some of its faithful followers.
This has been happening a few too many times, which is why members may notice that threads are either being locked, edited or moved. It's a shame when opposing views seem to take on a personal attack mode, instead of offering educated and civil discussions. I would hope that you don't leave metrojacksonville, and allow the administrators and moderators the opportunity to continue working towards maintaining a forum that's not only inviting to current members, but to new ones.
My mom always said, "Love the Lord with all your heart and your Beretta 9 mm too." ;)
Quote from: NotNow on July 16, 2008, 11:46:19 AM
Hey Avon,
I guess I am somewhat responsible for whatever happened here. I was just trying to say that the culture is defferent in OK than it is here. A lot of how we look at the world is based on our experiences. Local churches are representative of the community that they are in. I certainly understand your position, and encourage you to express it. I'm not the same man who left that small town to join the military many years ago, and I won't be the same in twenty years. We change and the world changes around us. That is what makes TRUTH so valuble. It does not change. Lets just all try to understand that.
I just wanted to let you know that you are not the person I was talking about....
They know who they are.
When this person disagrees with someone on this site they tend to make it personal.....
I was very tired of their methods which resulted with "the straw broke the camels back," so to speak.
You and I have different views of this subject, but I am not angry nor do I have less respect for your opinion.
I appreciate that you gave a very solid reason for your view.
That was part of the point I was trying to make in my last post....
Quote from: jbm32206 on July 16, 2008, 12:29:42 PM
Quote from: avonjax on July 16, 2008, 04:15:50 AMI have always looked to this site as a fine source of information. And on many subjects maybe the best source. But the antagonism that has reared its ugly head here lately has taken a lot of the pleasure out of being here.
My intention with this post is to alert those who choose to ignore any semblance of online etiquette by allowing their opposing opinions and views to come across as personal affronts, are robbing a valuable resource of its real intention, and threatening the ongoing use by some of its faithful followers.
This has been happening a few too many times, which is why members may notice that threads are either being locked, edited or moved. It's a shame when opposing views seem to take on a personal attack mode, instead of offering educated and civil discussions. I would hope that you don't leave metrojacksonville, and allow the administrators and moderators the opportunity to continue working towards maintaining a forum that's not only inviting to current members, but to new ones.
thank you jbm. we couldn't have said it better ourselves.
Just to add... The white man raided the Indians not the other way around. When someone steals something they are still a thief, and the victim trying to get their 'stuff back is still a victim, whether acknowledged or not. perhaps if the indians had the uzi's back then the USA would be a different place so i say we all get one ;) :-*
Yes. In fact, you can see it in the "Welcome and Introductions" topics. The regulars have even stopped welcoming people to the site which is a shame since we would want to welcome everybody one would think.
But anyways, Gun's for everybody! DC is changing their law too so the young baptist up there can have them as well.
Quote from: Driven1 on July 15, 2008, 11:53:36 PM
i am a gun owner. and yes, i sometimes take my gun to church. not INTO the church mind you, but it will be in the car. it would be wonderful if thugs took Sundays off, but they do not.
You are one scary dude...
Do you mind telling me the church you go to?
I want to be sure to avoid it at all costs....
.....and obviously you are a Republican, cuz u guys love your guns more than your women....
oh and tapping your feet under bathroom stalls....
But at least you have your gun to snuggle up to at night....
Have a gun lovin', pistol packin' day....
Hallelujah!
Welcome aboard gjb2008.
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 03:41:18 PM
Quote from: Driven1 on July 15, 2008, 11:53:36 PM
i am a gun owner. and yes, i sometimes take my gun to church. not INTO the church mind you, but it will be in the car. it would be wonderful if thugs took Sundays off, but they do not.
You are one scary dude...
Do you mind telling me the church you go to?
I want to be sure to avoid it at all costs....
.....and obviously you are a Republican, cuz u guys love your guns more than your women....
oh and tapping your feet under bathroom stalls....
But at least you have your gun to snuggle up to at night....
Have a gun lovin', pistol packin' day....
Hallelujah!
lol. i go to Riverside United Church of Christ. it's weird. almost everyone i know there brings their gun to church too!!! :)
Do you take the riffle as well? One never knows when they might need to take out a fellow parishioner from the Baptist Book Repository. ::)
Quote from: Driven1 on July 16, 2008, 03:43:52 PM
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 03:41:18 PM
Quote from: Driven1 on July 15, 2008, 11:53:36 PM
i am a gun owner. and yes, i sometimes take my gun to church. not INTO the church mind you, but it will be in the car. it would be wonderful if thugs took Sundays off, but they do not.
You are one scary dude...
Do you mind telling me the church you go to?
I want to be sure to avoid it at all costs....
.....and obviously you are a Republican, cuz u guys love your guns more than your women....
oh and tapping your feet under bathroom stalls....
But at least you have your gun to snuggle up to at night....
Have a gun lovin', pistol packin' day....
Hallelujah!
lol. i go to Riverside United Church of Christ. it's weird. almost everyone i know there brings their gun to church too!!! :)
Wow a church full of peace loving gun toters....
Makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over
If everybody were "peace loving gun toters" we would live a life without crime, IMO.
Quote from: gatorback on July 16, 2008, 03:45:31 PM
Do you take the riffle as well?
here is what i usually take to church:
9mm pistol
Remington .22 rifle
and a small .410 shotgun for potential close range action
:D
Do you pack the full jacket man stoppers? Mark (co-worker)goes to Synagog with nothing less then a 12 gauge with one once slugs. He wants to at least blast them across the street and pin them to the wall.
I have headlight mounted rocket propelled grenades and a .50 that pops up out of my sunroof.
:)
Quote from: Jason on July 16, 2008, 03:51:48 PM
I have headlight mounted rocket propelled grenades and a .50 that pops up out of my sunroof.
:)
Have you trained your kid how to use this yet?
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 03:45:41 PM
Quote from: Driven1 on July 16, 2008, 03:43:52 PM
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 03:41:18 PM
Quote from: Driven1 on July 15, 2008, 11:53:36 PM
i am a gun owner. and yes, i sometimes take my gun to church. not INTO the church mind you, but it will be in the car. it would be wonderful if thugs took Sundays off, but they do not.
You are one scary dude...
Do you mind telling me the church you go to?
I want to be sure to avoid it at all costs....
.....and obviously you are a Republican, cuz u guys love your guns more than your women....
oh and tapping your feet under bathroom stalls....
But at least you have your gun to snuggle up to at night....
Have a gun lovin', pistol packin' day....
Hallelujah!
lol. i go to Riverside United Church of Christ. it's weird. almost everyone i know there brings their gun to church too!!! :)
Wow a church full of peace loving gun toters....
Makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over
That really isn't so wierd, it's us godless, planet lovin', left wing commies who think bringin' a gun in a car to church is a little whacked, we are the wierd ones....
Heck, when your packing, you can love your brother in the building but shoot his backside if he crosses u up, or heaven forbid mistake a panhandler's hand in his pocket for a weapon and blow his head off. Yeah that church parking lot is an awfully scary place!
Quote from: gatorback on July 16, 2008, 03:55:12 PM
Quote from: Jason on July 16, 2008, 03:51:48 PM
I have headlight mounted rocket propelled grenades and a .50 that pops up out of my sunroof.
:)
Have you trained your kid how to use this yet?
ROFL!! seeing as how i think his kid is three or so, he/she better already know how to use it!
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 03:55:53 PM
mistake a panhandler's hand in his pocket for a weapon and blow his head off. Yeah that church parking lot is an awfully scary place!
i think you should come panhandle at Riverside Church of Christ!!! :D
Quote from: gatorback on July 16, 2008, 03:55:12 PM
Quote from: Jason on July 16, 2008, 03:51:48 PM
I have headlight mounted rocket propelled grenades and a .50 that pops up out of my sunroof.
:)
Have you trained your kid how to use this yet?
Nope not yet. Though, he is getting proper training with air rifles and will soon learn about .22s and black powder. He's 9.
Like my mom always said, "first you potty train, then you gun train." I miss her so.
Quote from: Driven1 on July 16, 2008, 03:56:26 PM
Quote from: gatorback on July 16, 2008, 03:55:12 PM
Quote from: Jason on July 16, 2008, 03:51:48 PM
I have headlight mounted rocket propelled grenades and a .50 that pops up out of my sunroof.
:)
Have you trained your kid how to use this yet?
ROFL!! seeing as how i think his kid is three or so, he/she better already know how to use it!
While you are teaching them to shoot, teach them to hate, despise, and why not kill everyone of a different race, religion or nationality while you are at it. I'm sure Jesus will be so proud of you.....
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: Driven1 on July 16, 2008, 03:56:26 PM
Quote from: gatorback on July 16, 2008, 03:55:12 PM
Quote from: Jason on July 16, 2008, 03:51:48 PM
I have headlight mounted rocket propelled grenades and a .50 that pops up out of my sunroof.
:)
Have you trained your kid how to use this yet?
ROFL!! seeing as how i think his kid is three or so, he/she better already know how to use it!
While you are teaching them to shoot, teach them to hate, despise, and why not kill everyone of a different race, religion or nationality while you are at it. I'm sure Jesus will be so proud of you.....
Oh I forgot thats what fun lovin', pistol totin' right wing conservative Repulicans do....
Please forgive me for my error
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 04:11:42 PM
While you are teaching them to shoot, teach them to hate, despise, and why not kill everyone of a different race, religion or nationality while you are at it. I'm sure Jesus will be so proud of you.....
that's a good idea! genious!
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: Driven1 on July 16, 2008, 03:56:26 PM
Quote from: gatorback on July 16, 2008, 03:55:12 PM
Quote from: Jason on July 16, 2008, 03:51:48 PM
I have headlight mounted rocket propelled grenades and a .50 that pops up out of my sunroof.
:)
Have you trained your kid how to use this yet?
ROFL!! seeing as how i think his kid is three or so, he/she better already know how to use it!
While you are teaching them to shoot, teach them to hate, despise, and why not kill everyone of a different race, religion or nationality while you are at it. I'm sure Jesus will be so proud of you.....
Where do you get these bizarre ideas? Also, cant you tell that Driven is messing with you?
Quote from: Driven1 on July 16, 2008, 04:13:15 PM
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 04:11:42 PM
While you are teaching them to shoot, teach them to hate, despise, and why not kill everyone of a different race, religion or nationality while you are at it. I'm sure Jesus will be so proud of you.....
that's a good idea! genious!
No youre the genius
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 04:16:12 PM
Quote from: Driven1 on July 16, 2008, 04:13:15 PM
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 04:11:42 PM
While you are teaching them to shoot, teach them to hate, despise, and why not kill everyone of a different race, religion or nationality while you are at it. I'm sure Jesus will be so proud of you.....
that's a good idea! genious!
No youre the genius
.....and you cant tell that I'm messing with him?
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 04:16:56 PM
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 04:16:12 PM
Quote from: Driven1 on July 16, 2008, 04:13:15 PM
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 04:11:42 PM
While you are teaching them to shoot, teach them to hate, despise, and why not kill everyone of a different race, religion or nationality while you are at it. I'm sure Jesus will be so proud of you.....
that's a good idea! genious!
No youre the genius
.....and you cant tell that I'm messing with him?
only i believe he was serious about the gun at church....
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 04:18:00 PM
only i believe he was serious about the gun at church....
and with the suggestion that you should panhandle at church. ;)
Quote from: stephendare on July 16, 2008, 04:20:52 PM
gjb2008, Hey man.
welcome to the site!
Don't take this thread too seriously man, I posted it ironically and it has definitely turned into a circus.
The rest of the site is awesome.
thanks I'll remember that....
I'm just having some fun, even though I know most of these people mean what they are saying....and with as much humor as possible I mean everything I said......
this is the conservative south
Quote from: Driven1 on July 16, 2008, 04:23:44 PM
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 04:18:00 PM
only i believe he was serious about the gun at church....
and with the suggestion that you should panhandle at church. ;)
maybe ill be lucky and there will be a backfire
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 04:27:39 PM
Quote from: Driven1 on July 16, 2008, 04:23:44 PM
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 04:18:00 PM
only i believe he was serious about the gun at church....
and with the suggestion that you should panhandle at church. ;)
maybe ill be lucky and there will be a backfire
you should pray about that. just kidding my left-winger friend! welcome to the site! we are glad to have you here!
I think I'll move this to the breakroom.
Quote from: Driven1 on July 16, 2008, 04:31:53 PM
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 04:27:39 PM
Quote from: Driven1 on July 16, 2008, 04:23:44 PM
Quote from: gjb2008 on July 16, 2008, 04:18:00 PM
only i believe he was serious about the gun at church....
and with the suggestion that you should panhandle at church. ;)
maybe ill be lucky and there will be a backfire
you should pray about that. just kidding my left-winger friend! welcome to the site! we are glad to have you here!
How quickly you forget....
We left-wingers are godless, thus we don't pray