Barnett Bank Building Foreclosed
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Development/Inside-the-Barnett-Bank-and/i-WbxCSSr/0/L/DSC_0059-XL.jpg)
Jacksonville, Fla. – Barnett Tower, LLC, a single purpose entity formed by SouthEast Holdings, LP has consented to the foreclosure of the Barnett National Bank Building to Stache Investments Corporation. The move, intended to prevent further costs of litigation in the current stalemate of downtown development will free the building of more years of inaction.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2016-jul-barnett-bank-building-foreclosed
What's funny about the agreement to foreclose is that in Jacksonville that is considered "progress".
It's actually damn sad as well.
Commercial real estate folks: What's the market like for a building like this, in its current condition, in the likely absence of city subsidy for the foreseeable future?
Quote from: KenFSU on July 29, 2016, 01:10:46 PM
Commercial real estate folks: What's the market like for a building like this, in its current condition, in the likely absence of city subsidy for the foreseeable future?
I'm not a commercial real estate guy but....
A. No parking
B. Obsolete and gutted down to the bone
C. In downtown Jacksonville
Here's my expert analysis...
(http://www.jeresmith.com/portfolio/images/artwork-snowball.jpg)
Quote from: KenFSU on July 29, 2016, 01:10:46 PM
Commercial real estate folks: What's the market like for a building like this, in its current condition, in the likely absence of city subsidy for the foreseeable future?
There are a few things going on with this property.
A) It's current condition. Whoever buys it will have to build it out with a particular purpose in mind. Does the end user buy it and develop it to suit their needs? Does a developer buy it and turn it into apartments? Does a developer buy it and turn it into office space and then rent it out to lawyers or virtual offices? Or a mixture of res/comm? Whichever, finding the buyer...the right buyer...is the issue. Someone, somewhere is looking for this building. How can we help them find it?
B) What is the calling for downtown? Residential, office, restaurants, clubs, etc....there is a lack of direction. There are all of these, but not enough. If they build it, they will come...or will they come if they build it? Chicken/egg. Market research is weak for DT Jacksonville, but everyone wants it to succeed. Maybe a co-op is the answer. Everyone pitch in what they can for a portion of the return. Take those funds and develop something, sell it and repeat.
C) Would it be cheaper to tear down and start over? Yes, but you lose the appeal of the architecture and the vibe. More importantly, you lose the support of the people who support downtown.
There is no right answer, but maybe there is. Who has it?
QuoteI'm not a commercial real estate guy but....
A. No parking
B. Obsolete and gutted down to the bone
C. In downtown Jacksonville
Regarding parking downtown: When will City fathers realize that if we had both a decent mass transit system between downtown and the suburbs and another system allowing for robust circulation within the urban core, downtown would not be so auto-centric? Such systems would (1) reduce the dependency on parking by both allowing suburbanites to travel without a car and urban core residents a lifestyle totally free of a car and (2) would create a ready made market of mobile urban core patrons that would provide the minimum threshold to create value in these buildings sans parking. Until this happens, downtown real estate values are unlikely to achieve a level to make these types of development projects viable on any kind of large scale and/or sustainable basis.
Unfortunately, there is little discussion, much less any movement, to achieve these levels of car-free mobility. As such, expect downtown housing (which also will require far more "green space" IMHO to be attractive) and other development to remain sluggish at best.
Sad yet not even surprised anymore. I guess our city leaders truly enjoy looking at empty skyscrapers downtown.
Unfortunately, this has been a long time coming. Things aren't looking good for the Trio either.
Quote from: stephendare on July 29, 2016, 03:18:06 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on July 29, 2016, 03:10:01 PM
Unfortunately, this has been a long time coming. Things aren't looking good for the Trio either.
Not with one trick pony man in the mayor's office.
Nothing downtown looks very good.
It's been in the same limbo since 2013. Alvin didn't give them any money either.
Quote from: stephendare on July 29, 2016, 03:35:07 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on July 29, 2016, 03:22:52 PM
Quote from: stephendare on July 29, 2016, 03:18:06 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on July 29, 2016, 03:10:01 PM
Unfortunately, this has been a long time coming. Things aren't looking good for the Trio either.
Not with one trick pony man in the mayor's office.
Nothing downtown looks very good.
It's been in the same limbo since 2013. Alvin didn't give them any money either.
He at least got out of the way.
This idiot is actively telling people No.
Alvin didn't get out of the way of anyone besides Toney Sleiman. And he certainly didn't get this project off the ground. Notice, however, that I didn't call him an idiot or a hack.
The way BIG JAX is going, if you tear it all down, it will sit for 3 or 4 decades or more, an empty lot, with no vision, objective, or goal for the property. We will all be dead and gone when and if a decision is ever made on this block/property; sad news. I was pulling hard for the trio and the Barnett Building; oh well. Is Curry really doing that bad of a job relative to downtown? I thought during his campaign, he said that DT was a top priority for him in terms of development.
Are we blaming Curry for this? If the police negotiated a reasonable pension, including years without raises and even economic adjustments that affected everyone, then the city could pursue investments.
The city, and thus the mayor, is a victim.
Of course, the project's leadership should accept responsibility for their failure and not attempt to dissuade Khan or another developer on this property. If they were really interested in helping downtown, they will hand over list of interested contacts they accumulated on a property they never made a single payment on.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=548036 (http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=548036)
QuoteThe amount consists of the $3 million Stache Investments loaned Atkins to purchase the building and $1.2 million in interest as of Thursday, along with other fees and taxes. The judgment will continue to accrue interest until paid.
A second loan of $165,764 to Atkins from Stache Investments was not addressed in the judge's order.
Daniel ordered if the judgment isn't paid, the building will be sold at a public auction Sept. 14 to the highest bidder for cash or electronic sale via city website. Proceeds would first go to Stache Investments.
Atkins in a statement Friday morning said Barnett Tower consented to the foreclosure to avoid further litigation.
This is the most unrealistic statement I have ever heard in Real Estate about a borrower, and a great laugh:
Atkins said it was not a typical loan and his company wasn't supposed to repay the money.Atkins taking a page from the shyster Cameron Kuhn who was the previous downtown charlatan.
Quote from: stephendare on July 29, 2016, 01:14:52 PM
The Curry Admnistration has pretty much killed the shit out of downtown. All that progress, work and hope of the past years is being destroyed in just a few months of letting this partisan hack into the Mayor's office.
Sad.
I'm going to have to 100% agree with you here Stephen! I've said it before but I just can't see how any of Jax's mayors (present or past) can have their office overlooking all the emptiness in downtown and have any pride in it. I suppose when you have a window seat to all these failures, you can either use that as fuel to do something about it or you can let it get you down and do nothing about it. As you said later in this thread... "Actions speak louder than words"
Did Atkins pay his taxes?
Quote from: mtraininjax on July 30, 2016, 12:09:11 AM
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=548036 (http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=548036)
QuoteThe amount consists of the $3 million Stache Investments loaned Atkins to purchase the building and $1.2 million in interest as of Thursday, along with other fees and taxes. The judgment will continue to accrue interest until paid.
A second loan of $165,764 to Atkins from Stache Investments was not addressed in the judge's order.
Daniel ordered if the judgment isn't paid, the building will be sold at a public auction Sept. 14 to the highest bidder for cash or electronic sale via city website. Proceeds would first go to Stache Investments.
Atkins in a statement Friday morning said Barnett Tower consented to the foreclosure to avoid further litigation.
This is the most unrealistic statement I have ever heard in Real Estate about a borrower, and a great laugh:
Atkins said it was not a typical loan and his company wasn't supposed to repay the money.
Atkins taking a page from the shyster Cameron Kuhn who was the previous downtown charlatan.
Sort of like not knowing you weren't supposed to pay your taxes, which apparently he didn't do either.
B) What is the calling for downtown? Residential, office, restaurants, clubs, etc....there is a lack of direction.
There is direction... towards more homeless shelters, more empty lots, more busted projects [chophouse next], fewer employees [look out Everbank Tower...] etc. etc. etc.
Crazy thing is that as many as 1800 - 2000 residential units could be under construction, in and around downtown, by the end of the year. That's the most at one time in decades. So some of the doom and gloom may be misplaced.
:o
Quote from: thelakelander on July 30, 2016, 12:48:52 PM
Crazy thing is that as many as 1800 - 2000 residential units could be under construction, in and around downtown, by the end of the year. That's the most at one time in decades. So some of the doom and gloom may be misplaced.
Misplaced?? Here?? :o ;D
If we would just stop subsidizing urban sprawl downtown and the urban core would simply take care of itself. The good news is that as the financial condition worsens we inch closer to ending the subsidies. How much longer can the mortgage interest deduction last? How much longer will it be before we switch from a gas tax to a milage tax? When will property taxes eventually go up to cover the costs of providing city service? The answer is soon and when it does economic reality will take over.
Where did the comments thread go for this article?
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-jul-shad-khan-loses-foreclosure-bid-for-barnett (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-jul-shad-khan-loses-foreclosure-bid-for-barnett)
They're still there. Just click on the links (above and below the article) that say 70 comments:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,24924.0.html
^I'm getting an error message saying An Error Has Occurred! The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you.
Strange. Try it now.
Quote from: PeeJayEss on August 01, 2016, 08:48:39 AM
Where did the comments thread go for this article?
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-jul-shad-khan-loses-foreclosure-bid-for-barnett (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-jul-shad-khan-loses-foreclosure-bid-for-barnett)
Thank you for this prompt. That's certainly the kind of thread Stephen would like to bury.
Jax Daily Record, on the potential market for this building:
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=548053
At least one member of the DIA expects Khan to end up owning the building.
Nothing downtown of any major consequence will happen until either 1) the courthouse and city hall have a plan or 2) the landing has a plan. Sure some shops here and there, but these are the major eyesores, besides Berkman II, but that is a tear down job.
Fixing Liberty street is a great first step, maybe the one hurdle that would be in the way to affect the space around it.
Oh my godddddddd can we please just tear down the Berkman II already. It's literally so embarrassing to look at.
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on August 01, 2016, 12:02:28 PM
Oh my godddddddd can we please just tear down the Berkman II already. It's literally so embarrassing to look at.
And where is the millions it will take to tear it down to come from?
This is more important than the Landing. I think the Landing is important but can be re-purposed so easily.
See what is going on in Tampa and should be replicated here at the Landing:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/retail/the-heights-market-concept-will-be-the-first-of-its-kind-in-tampa-bay/2287376
Quote from: FlaBoy on August 01, 2016, 02:23:30 PM
This is more important than the Landing. I think the Landing is important but can be re-purposed so easily.
See what is going on in Tampa and should be replicated here at the Landing:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/retail/the-heights-market-concept-will-be-the-first-of-its-kind-in-tampa-bay/2287376
The more that I visit other cities and read up on what's working well across the country, the more I fall in love with the idea of the Landing as Jacksonville's signature marketplace & food hall. Really does seem like it could a game-changer for the Landing, particularly with residential picking up in and around the core. It would provide something uniquely Jacksonville, that you just couldn't find elsewhere in the city.
But pulling from the same article Stephen .. we still have the old Courthouse dock/parking deck .. wouldn't it be better to integrate it into the somewhat existing entertainment district ...for once .. just once ... I wish more than a handful understood density and mixed use planning (& Im not referring to you Stephen). There is so much that could be done with so little ...
QuoteThis is more important than the Landing. I think the Landing is important but can be re-purposed so easily.
Because the water taxi drops people off 5 blocks north of the Landing? The Landing is on the shots for the football games, most visitors have no clue of where Hemming Park is located and most only know it for derogatory reasons as they get hit up coming out of the Main Library. The (2) major hotels, Omni and Hyatt are a block each away from the Landing.
For visitors and tax dollars, the Landing is more important than a park 5 blocks north of the river.
FSCJ is currently in the process of moving their culinary school to their downtown campus. In addition to the school, they're adding a restaurant to their dormitory project on Adams Street. The project should be complete around January 2017.
QuoteThe building will have 60 beds when completed, which will be suite-style apartments with a common living area and kitchen space. The price for each unit will be $750, which Holland said fits their students' definition of affordable housing.
Plans for a student-run "Panera-style" culinary café, which will occupy about 4800 square feet of the building, are also moving forward. The school will be moving its culinary program to FSCJ's Downtown campus at 101 W. State Street in order to accommodate students who will work in the fast-casual restaurant.
Holland said the plans for the café serve two purposes: an outlet for FSCJ's culinary students and a contribution to their Downtown revitalization efforts.
"It was important for us to bring not only residential, but retail space to Downtown," Holland said.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/02/23/fscj-housing-in-downtown-to-open-in-august.html
Well, look at Kitchen in San Marco ... and by fate with MD Anderson/ Baptist going in next door .. its become a beacon of light in a sea of medical complexes ... And, as much as I applaud Intuition's efforts, I have serious misgivings about its performance .. event days ... home run ... every other day .. who wants to drive past the jail and the sheriff to have a few pints and then drive home past the same ... maybe we could turn the Berkman II into an overflow site for the chronically over booked seats at the pre trial detention center ...
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on August 01, 2016, 12:02:28 PM
Oh my godddddddd can we please just tear down the Berkman II already. It's literally so embarrassing to look at.
feel free to buy it and then you can
Quote from: stephendare on August 01, 2016, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on August 01, 2016, 02:37:09 PM
Quote from: FlaBoy on August 01, 2016, 02:23:30 PM
This is more important than the Landing. I think the Landing is important but can be re-purposed so easily.
See what is going on in Tampa and should be replicated here at the Landing:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/retail/the-heights-market-concept-will-be-the-first-of-its-kind-in-tampa-bay/2287376
The more that I visit other cities and read up on what's working well across the country, the more I fall in love with the idea of the Landing as Jacksonville's signature marketplace & food hall. Really does seem like it could a game-changer for the Landing, particularly with residential picking up in and around the core. It would provide something uniquely Jacksonville, that you just couldn't find elsewhere in the city.
totally agree with you on this Ken. A culinary institute, fish market and food hall would be a complete game changer for downtown. Something that has been recognized since the early days of "The Quay"
Dammit...I'm agreeing with Stephen again!
The Landing re-purposed as only food-related would be a complete game-changer. Fish market, culinary school/institute, food hall...awesome ideas. Add some other fare to round it out be it mom & pop/family-run or even some secondary franchised joints (not the likes of McDs or BK). The coffee place that is going in is a nice add. Not only would the downtown workers have a great place to go during lunch, it would give people a reason to come and actually spend some time downtown again.
All food...man, getting hungry.
You listening to this, Sleiman?
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 01, 2016, 10:50:20 PM
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on August 01, 2016, 12:02:28 PM
Oh my godddddddd can we please just tear down the Berkman II already. It's literally so embarrassing to look at.
feel free to buy it and then you can
Haaaaaaaaaaa.....................
Quote from: stephendare on August 01, 2016, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on August 01, 2016, 02:37:09 PM
Quote from: FlaBoy on August 01, 2016, 02:23:30 PM
This is more important than the Landing. I think the Landing is important but can be re-purposed so easily.
See what is going on in Tampa and should be replicated here at the Landing:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/retail/the-heights-market-concept-will-be-the-first-of-its-kind-in-tampa-bay/2287376
The more that I visit other cities and read up on what's working well across the country, the more I fall in love with the idea of the Landing as Jacksonville's signature marketplace & food hall. Really does seem like it could a game-changer for the Landing, particularly with residential picking up in and around the core. It would provide something uniquely Jacksonville, that you just couldn't find elsewhere in the city.
totally agree with you on this Ken. A culinary institute, fish market and food hall would be a complete game changer for downtown. Something that has been recognized since the early days of "The Quay"
Do you think Sleiman would support the idea, or do you think he's too set on his long-term vision of city-subsidized mixed use?
In ten minutes time (11:00 AM), she'll be officially up for auction.
$1 Bob
A lot of people think Stache is going to walk away from the auction with the Barnett.
Really interested to see what happens here, and how much the market deems the building to be worth.
Appears the market isn't interested in it. Only one bid for $25k by Alex Klempf. In response, a Stache trustee offered $50k. So it goes to Stache.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/09/14/shad-khan-takes-over-barnett-bank-building.html
Khan got it for a steal IMO. 50k. Hopefully his group can get the ball moving on redevelopment. He definitely has more connections/leverage with investors than the previous owners.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=548325
Quote from: thelakelander on September 14, 2016, 11:38:44 AM
Appears the market isn't interested in it. Only one bid for $25k by Alex Klempf. In response, a Stache trustee offered $50k. So it goes to Stache.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/09/14/shad-khan-takes-over-barnett-bank-building.html
Max bid of $4.6 million was set by Stache.
I'd call $50k a steal.
Stache Tower?
Quote from: jaxjaguar on September 14, 2016, 11:39:08 AM
Khan got it for a steal IMO. 50k. Hopefully his group can get the ball moving on redevelopment. He definitely has more connections/leverage with investors than the previous owners.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=548325
$3mm plus 50k plus expenses. The building is worth about $1.1mm per the Property Tax Assessor, which admittedly is not likely it's true market value.
Almost impossible to tell the buildings true worth at this point. Are there any recent comparable sales (arms length) of anything this size in similar condition?
So, what does the future of the Barnett look like know? Can we expect some movement on restoration or will should we be prepared for a situation like the Laura Street Trio where plans are made but held up due to lack of city funding?
Just saw this lovely little video from the Adkins group, though it certainly needs an update:
https://vimeo.com/145086309
Statement on the purchase, via the T-U, from Jim Woodcock, spokesman for Shad Khan.
Quote"Stache has demonstrated beyond doubt Mr. Khan's commitment to Jacksonville, and that is particularly true for Downtown Jacksonville. Stache is very pleased to have won the bid and be in a position to play a role in whatever the future may hold for the property.
"It is far too early to speculate what the short-term or long-term future may look like for the Barnett building. But until decisions regarding its future are made, rest assured that the Barnett building is in excellent hands."
I can't imagine Khan would want the building (at any price) if he wasn't going to do anything to it. I think it's more a question of what and when, not if.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 14, 2016, 01:26:11 PM
I can't imagine Khan would want the building (at any price) if he wasn't going to do anything to it. I think it's more a question of what and when, not if.
Here's what excites me. If Shad Khan - a powerful, well respected billionaire - presents a plan for restoration of the Barnett Bank building, what does that do for investor confidence in the surrounding area? Maybe nothing. Or maybe it creates a very powerful domino effect.
Quote from: stephendare on September 14, 2016, 01:48:04 PM
Owned by the guy he screwed on the Barnett Deal.
I still feel like blaming Khan for the Adkins deal is like blaming a rope supplier for hangings.
Clearly, he didn't screw anybody. Somebody was *trying* to screw him. Stupid move on their part. But Stephen is invested in an odd narrative and has made himself a slave to it.
Quote from: stephendare on September 14, 2016, 02:26:10 PM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 14, 2016, 02:18:01 PM
Quote from: stephendare on September 14, 2016, 01:48:04 PM
Owned by the guy he screwed on the Barnett Deal.
I still feel like blaming Khan for the Adkins deal is like blaming a rope supplier for hangings.
Welching on a deal is pretty screwy.
If I go in half with you on investing in a restaurant, and get credit based on three large annual catering contracts that are rock solid, and I am guaranteeing will pay all the bills,
but then, after you've put in your money say: "Never mind, those catering contracts aren't going to happen, so Im going to need all my money back"
Would you consider that a dick move?
Did they go in halves? Or are you counting the Trio as the other half?
Quote from: stephendare on September 14, 2016, 02:26:10 PM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 14, 2016, 02:18:01 PM
Quote from: stephendare on September 14, 2016, 01:48:04 PM
Owned by the guy he screwed on the Barnett Deal.
I still feel like blaming Khan for the Adkins deal is like blaming a rope supplier for hangings.
Welching on a deal is pretty screwy.
If I go in half with you on investing in a restaurant, and get credit based on three large annual catering contracts that are rock solid, and I am guaranteeing will pay all the bills,
but then, after you've put in your money say: "Never mind, those catering contracts aren't going to happen, so Im going to need all my money back"
Would you consider that a dick move?
That's one way of looking at it.
Here's another:
You come to me with this great idea for a restaurant and want me as your partner. I'm new in town and have a nice bank account; You're established, have had some success and are looking for a 'legacy' project. Part of our deal is that when the restaurant is open, to help you out, I've got some events already booked. We agree to terms. Now as time passes and it's taken you so long to get the actual restaurant open, my events have backed out for one reason or another. Well, now that you can't count on that initial cashflow, you ask me for a little cash to keeps things afloat until opening, with a wink-wink/nod-nod that once open, you'll pay me right back.
Well..... as it turns out, your entire restaurant plan was all talk and you were really basing everything off of the events that I had already planned. So not only is your original idea kaput, but you also have no plan to pay back the second loan I gave you... I guess it's time to call in the lawyers.
Good grief!
Speaking of the Trio, can someone with knowledge of how these things work explain to me how the DIA has stated in the last year that the $7 million asked for by Atkins was beyond their budget, yet they apparently ran at a $4.6 million surplus last (fiscal) year and nearly let those funds lapse. Is there something I'm missing? Why weren't those funds spent? And, if last year's surplus is back in the coffers, plus this year's budget, plus the promised increase in the capital projects budget as a result of the pension reform, is there any excuse for not making the Trio happen this year?
Unless I've completely missed something here (possible, but I don't believe so) then the corrections made to your quote are more accurate.
Quote from: stephendare on September 14, 2016, 02:54:53 PM
But the original financing, (which required that Steve put in his money and credit) was based on the pre existing potential leases, as many commercial real estate loans are around the country.
Let's not forget that supposedly Atkins was bringing something to the table.
From 2014 (
emphasis mine):
Quote"Stache is involved in partnership with this whole project," Atkins said. "But it's a typical development loan."
Atkins said he has commitments for the first two floors, which are designated for retail uses, though he declined to name any tenants. He said those tenants would be announced at the later news conference.
One Spark, KYN and CoWork have committed to space in the tower, Rivas said, though he declined to disclose the terms of the leases.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/morning-edition/2014/04/inside-the-plans-for-the-redevelopment-of-the.html
So while the 3 Stache companies would have helped, they weren't the only ones, and was the point I was making.
So what happened to Steve's part; did he ever name his 2 floors of leasees?
Quoteis there any excuse for not making the Trio happen this year?
This is Jacksonville we are talking about. There is ALWAYS an excuse at the ready.
Current State Of Barnett Bank Building
(http://i.imgur.com/Qh2RYMA.jpg)
https://imgur.com/a/NzK8t (https://imgur.com/a/NzK8t) Album in link
Quote from: pHOTOmAN on September 14, 2016, 03:46:38 PM
Current State Of Barnett Bank Building
(http://i.imgur.com/Qh2RYMA.jpg)
https://imgur.com/a/NzK8t (https://imgur.com/a/NzK8t) Album in link
Great photos, thanks for the share.
THAT EXPOSED BRICK <3
Building is in need of a lot of TLC, but man, so much potential.
Hmmmmm . . . so now contingencies have morphed into commitments and begging to be fronted $8 million on speculative assurances from some private entity with no skin in the game whatsoever is somehow tantamount to the City of Jacksonville reneging? Uh, no.
And it may just be me but this is one whopper of a sentence: "What Steve should have done early is litigate the breach by Stache and demand that they find replacement leases or honor the costs themselves."
A breach, huh? He should demand, huh? Honor costs, huh !?! Wowza.
Quote from: jlmann on September 14, 2016, 02:24:24 PM
idk - the whole issue is getting financing right? if khan does anything to Barnett you have to think the trio would be a much easier to sell to a banker or the like.
the financiers could care less if the guy who developed the Barnett screwed the owner of the trio- they just know with a functioning building across the street the trio is way less risky than as it stands today.
plenty more to the story sure, but bottom line adkins couldn't deliver a deal. he's also not going to get anything done on the trio w/o a major change of heart from coj and/or the Barnett getting developed and a financier having increased confidence to jump in.
Barnett and trio need each other- not going to be able to flip Barnett for anything worth khans time if trio is still vacant.
Unfortunately this is probably the best outcome at this point, but I'm hopeful khan pulls through. This really isn't worth his time otherwise
Except .... Parking ... redevelopment of the Trio included a parking garage component. Any future development of Barnett would have to include provision for parking ... good luck.
That would be true EXCEPT by the time this building gets renovated we will all be in self driving cars that will not need to be parked on site. They will drop you off at work then drive (by themselves) to a safe and remote place, only to be recalled by you using your super cool futuristic device, picking you up at precisely 5:08 pm as you exit the building.
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on July 29, 2016, 01:09:52 PM
What's funny about the agreement to foreclose is that in Jacksonville that is considered "progress".
It's actually damn sad as well.
Amen. Sad is putting it VERY lightly in terms.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 30, 2016, 12:48:52 PM
Crazy thing is that as many as 1800 - 2000 residential units could be under construction, in and around downtown, by the end of the year. That's the most at one time in decades. So some of the doom and gloom may be misplaced.
Do you think it (residential addition(s)) will happen by the end of this year? I hope so. We in this forum are all getting to be old farts and we will soon push up daisies; we can't stay here forever, but it certainly seems that most of our leaders think we, and they, have a lot of time left.
Quote from: pHOTOmAN on September 14, 2016, 03:46:38 PM
Current State Of Barnett Bank Building
(http://i.imgur.com/Qh2RYMA.jpg)
https://imgur.com/a/NzK8t (https://imgur.com/a/NzK8t) Album in link
Oh dear; if they don't do something soon with this building and the trio, I'm afraid they'll all have to be condemned and torn down. Are they still in good shape or borderline salvage?
Quote from: MusicMan on September 14, 2016, 09:58:30 PM
That would be true EXCEPT by the time this building gets renovated we will all be in self driving cars that will not need to be parked on site. They will drop you off at work then drive (by themselves) to a safe and remote place, only to be recalled by you using your super cool futuristic device, picking you up at precisely 5:08 pm as you exit the building.
"Dream on," (Aerosmith 1973). I hope YOU, as young as you probably are, get to see such things but don't bet on it. They will happen if we don't get nuked first. However, back to Jax, if our leaders don't quit piddling and twiddling around, nothing will ever happen positively or significantly in BIG JAX.
Quote from: heights unknown on September 14, 2016, 11:07:06 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on July 30, 2016, 12:48:52 PM
Crazy thing is that as many as 1800 - 2000 residential units could be under construction, in and around downtown, by the end of the year. That's the most at one time in decades. So some of the doom and gloom may be misplaced.
Do you think it (residential addition(s)) will happen by the end of this year? I hope so. We in this forum are all getting to be old farts and we will soon push up daisies; we can't stay here forever, but it certainly seems that most of our leaders think we, and they, have a lot of time left.
A couple hundred units are already under construction right now. Another major residential infill project has filed its plans with the city:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=548235
According to this link, that project now includes 15,000 square feet of downtown retail, which is pretty cool, IMO.
http://www.naihallmarkpartners.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/fl-011916-615-Houston-St.pdf
It is a shame to see the building breached such that it is now exposed to the elements again. I hope that is fixed immediately. Before it was in pretty stable/mothball condition correct?
^It's been that way for years.....ever since Cameron Kuhn went belly up. It was gutted out when Kuhn planned to convert it into apartments a decade ago. Kuhn installed those windows, which I believe will have to be replaced. It was during this time that the hole in the floors was created to be used as a construction trash chute.
I was referring to the mold that I assume started when the new windows were penetrated?
Quote from: vicupstate on September 15, 2016, 05:49:12 AM
It is a shame to see the building breached such that it is now exposed to the elements again. I hope that is fixed immediately. Before it was in pretty stable/mothball condition correct?
Actually not so much, I went through it with a due diligence team prior to Kuhn ... there were severe mold issues, aesbestos, etc, prior to Cameron. If anything, he skipped a few steps on remediation, i.e. regulations, and actually cleared out a lot of the prior issues.
I cant imagine being left open to the elements for to long will prevent more mold from manifesting.
Quote from: vicupstate on September 15, 2016, 08:39:44 AM
I was referring to the mold that I assume started when the new windows were penetrated?
Kuhn installed those windows about 10 years ago. They've been open ever since. He also did most of the necessary strip down and demo for both the Barnett and the Trio.
I'm pretty sure that since there's no mechanical ventilation system operating inside the building, the windows being open actually help the building to 'breathe' and helps curb mold growth.
Hypothetically, say this building and the trio finally get rolling. Either refurbished or demolished and new structures put in place... What would be the next property you'd like to see purchased/fixed? Old JEA building behind sweet Pete's, ambassador hotel, old court house on bay?
Quote from: jaxjaguar on September 15, 2016, 09:34:18 AM
Hypothetically, say this building and the trio finally get rolling. Either refurbished or demolished and new structures put in place... What would be the next property you'd like to see purchased/fixed? Old JEA building behind sweet Pete's, ambassador hotel, old court house on bay?
The closer in proximity to those buildings the better, IMO. Synergy between all the buildings can be created that way. JAX has never understood that concept. The cities that do find success in doing so.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on September 15, 2016, 10:07:45 AM
Quote from: jaxjaguar on September 15, 2016, 09:34:18 AM
Hypothetically, say this building and the trio finally get rolling. Either refurbished or demolished and new structures put in place... What would be the next property you'd like to see purchased/fixed? Old JEA building behind sweet Pete's, ambassador hotel, old court house on bay?
Gotta be the old courthouse. Such a waste of great space.
Agreed. I think it would be a great space for a mixed use building similar to Cobb Plaza in Orlando. Office, hotel, ground floor restaurants and shops, garage and residential all in one space. It would complement the shops and restaurants across the street as well as create a better connection between there and the landing on the Riverwalk.
WOW. It seems as if the list of vacant and distressed buildings is longer than the list for new projects.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 15, 2016, 08:56:21 AM
I'm pretty sure that since there's no mechanical ventilation system operating inside the building, the windows being open actually help the building to 'breathe' and helps curb mold growth.
There isn't. I got to tour the building shortly before it was gutted... Even used the old elevator...Yikes! I don't remember what floor the fire was on but I was able wander around a floor below and the top floor. Some offices still had books in the bookshelves. Heat was via steam radiators in the basement and AC was open windows. Each office had those Jaloussie style windows above the door for air circulation... the views are spectacular!
It's going to take a major rehab to get anything going there. But it's not as bad off as some think, especially when Khan only has $50k in it.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 15, 2016, 03:39:53 PM
It's going to take a major rehab to get anything going there. But it's not as bad off as some think, especially when Khan only has $50k in it.
I'm confused, didn't Khan via one of his companies, loan the funds? Therefore he has 3 million plus into it?
Quote from: strider on September 15, 2016, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 15, 2016, 03:39:53 PM
It's going to take a major rehab to get anything going there. But it's not as bad off as some think, especially when Khan only has $50k in it.
I'm confused, didn't Khan via one of his companies, loan the funds? Therefore he has 3 million plus into it?
I guess that's true. But he had that $3 million in it before he had a way to do anything with the building.
Quote from: strider on September 15, 2016, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 15, 2016, 03:39:53 PM
It's going to take a major rehab to get anything going there. But it's not as bad off as some think, especially when Khan only has $50k in it.
I'm confused, didn't Khan via one of his companies, loan the funds? Therefore he has 3 million plus into it?
My guess would be that he most definitely had Company B purchase the building at auction so that Company A can write off the $3m as a loss and Company B gains the actual valuation of the building as an asset.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 15, 2016, 04:05:43 PM
Quote from: strider on September 15, 2016, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 15, 2016, 03:39:53 PM
It's going to take a major rehab to get anything going there. But it's not as bad off as some think, especially when Khan only has $50k in it.
I'm confused, didn't Khan via one of his companies, loan the funds? Therefore he has 3 million plus into it?
My guess would be that he most definitely had Company B purchase the building at auction so that Company A can write off the $3m as a loss and Company B gains the actual valuation of the building as an asset.
There is no company A or B - Stache was the sole company involved. And no money changed hands in the "$50,100 bid" he won with. He already had $4.6M worth of "credit" in the building that he already owned. The auction is standard in foreclosure and the owner doesn't actually pay the winning bid amount when they bid. The purpose of the owner "bidding" on their own property is to make sure that when they have a huge amount owed to them, that someone like Klempf doesn't come along and buy it for $25k.
From a new interview with Shad Khan from today's T-U. Encouraging to hear that some real thought may be going into the Barnett. His answer seems to hint at at least some residential component.
Quote"We are going to be playing a role in developing downtown and making it a place where more people will not only work, but also live," Khan said. "Barnett will be a key part of that."