5 Ideas to Revitalize the Jacksonville Landing
(http://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Jacksonville-Landing/i-Hh6N8Zf/0/L/20160706_190851-L.jpg)
Here's five "no-frills" ideas that could add life to the Jacksonville Landing, courtesy of Ennis Davis, AICP at Moderncities.com. They may not be provocative, but downtown could benefit from a slumpbuster.
Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/5-ideas-to-revitalize-the-jacksonville-landing/ (https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/5-ideas-to-revitalize-the-jacksonville-landing-page-4/)
IMO - here are the main problems with The Landing:
1. Limited onsite parking if you want to go by car.
2. Vagrants / crime - we used to go by boat and sometimes spend the night. Now It doesn't feel safe anymore. Maybe add a JSO substation?
3. Lack of dock space for boats. If something fun is happening, it fills up fast and you can't get in. Add some piers and floating docks. Add power for the boats and allow people to stay up to 72 hours like Metro Park Marina
At this point, it's so broken I think many people have just given up and are waiting for The Shipyards to replace The Landing and do it right. Once The Shipyards open The Landing is doomed anyway. This city does a terrible job of leveraging the waterfront. The river is the lifeblood of this city, and COJ planners all but ignore it.
I doubt the Shipyards materializes this decade. I predict we'll see a mall pop up in Northern St. Johns County and tower cranes in downtown's skyline before anything resembling the Landing is built at the Shipyards site.
The food court idea is a no brainer. A restaurant with some event space would do well with the views and business community of DT.
I love the idea of creating cultural attractions in the Landing. Any museums that could move to the Landing or potential museums that have been discussed for Jax other than the USS Adams?
My crackpot scheme would be to take the doors off and convert the Landing into an indoor version of the Riverside Arts Market, with a wider variety of stuff available for sale at individual booths. So essentially, a downtown antique mall.
Not a Macy's, but antique malls can generate a lot of foot traffic. They could even be attractive to downtown office workers.
Having an arts and crafts component could also give local artists and craftspeople a path to go from hobbyist to part-time to full-time.
I totally agree with the permanent front porch idea as well. They should be doing anything they can just to get people to step foot on the property. Once they're on the property, entice them inside...
The barren concrete lawn, the landscaping that tries to hide the building from the street, these kind of things make it seem like a big deal to go the Landing. If we can get people circulating through the building, then retail will have a much better chance to survive there.
Food court/small eclectic retail tenets and a permanent front porch would be my votes as well. If you focused on that while giving a complete face lift to the interior design (polished concrete floors, new modern paint and signs, ripping out 80's style wood paneling, creating a more open and attractive main entrance from Laura st.) then I think opinions would change immediately. More boating sites would be fine too but I don't think that its's as much of a problem. A mix of San Fran Embarcadero and Detroit Campus Martius would be awesome!
The Jacksonville Landing is dead........
No way to put racing stripes on the broken down bus, no way to fix her. Sleiman has tried, the man who has MANY successful real estate strip malls cannot find a way to fix this broken down retail center. So stop trying to resusitate the old broad, let her die, and rebuild her as residential.
Maybe you missed it, had your head buried in the sand watching Bernillary on TV, http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/07/12/breaking-jacksonville-apartment-sale-breaks-local.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/07/12/breaking-jacksonville-apartment-sale-breaks-local.html) The Strand just sold for a record 65 million, for apartments in Jax. This was.....ahem, downtown, across the river from the dead Landing.
Mayor Curry, pull the plug on The Jacksonville Landing and rebuild it as a place for people to live, have their boats and build a solid base from the river, the source of Jacksonville's life, toward places like Hemming Plaza.
There are plenty of spaces for barnyard events for Fl/Ga, including the Old Shipyards, and Lake is right, we are probably a good 10 years from seeing it come to fruition. So why try and fix something that cannot be fixed, The Jacksonville Landing has been dying for 25 years, slowly each year. Put the old girl out of her misery.
Step 1 - Negotiate with producers of Mars Attacks II to implode The Landing as part of the next Martian invasion.
Step 2 - Build something else.
I have to agree with mtraininjax on this subject. The money needed to salvage it would be better spent building something else.
Quote from: mtraininjax on July 13, 2016, 11:32:24 PM
The Jacksonville Landing is dead........
No way to put racing stripes on the broken down bus, no way to fix her. Sleiman has tried, the man who has MANY successful real estate strip malls cannot find a way to fix this broken down retail center. So stop trying to resusitate the old broad, let her die, and rebuild her as residential.
Maybe you missed it, had your head buried in the sand watching Bernillary on TV, http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/07/12/breaking-jacksonville-apartment-sale-breaks-local.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/07/12/breaking-jacksonville-apartment-sale-breaks-local.html) The Strand just sold for a record 65 million, for apartments in Jax. This was.....ahem, downtown, across the river from the dead Landing.
Mayor Curry, pull the plug on The Jacksonville Landing and rebuild it as a place for people to live, have their boats and build a solid base from the river, the source of Jacksonville's life, toward places like Hemming Plaza.
There are plenty of spaces for barnyard events for Fl/Ga, including the Old Shipyards, and Lake is right, we are probably a good 10 years from seeing it come to fruition. So why try and fix something that cannot be fixed, The Jacksonville Landing has been dying for 25 years, slowly each year. Put the old girl out of her misery.
Doing residential ONLY would be a huge mistake and wasted opportunity. There is no demonstrated market for either For Sale or rental units at the price level required to build a NEW high rise residential, so you are talking about something on scale of the Brooklyn projects. The Strand was built at 10 year ago prices and given the type of construction (high-rise) it should come as no surprise that it's per unit price is at the very top.
Given the current market for office and residential DT currently, renovation is the only option that is viable.
It seems like a Food Hall is essentially the same thing as a Food Court.
^A food hall is probably closer to an indoor public market than a traditional mall food court. Here's a few images of Milwaukee's public market:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/Milwaukee-WI-March-2011/i-V56Vz8Z/0/L/DSC_0042-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/Milwaukee-WI-March-2011/i-SKqKpPW/0/L/DSC_0044-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/Milwaukee-WI-March-2011/i-zhNTbKb/0/L/DSC_0043-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/Milwaukee-WI-March-2011/i-xtrnVgv/0/L/DSC_0040-L.jpg)
http://www.moderncities.com/article/2016-jul-these-are-the-newest-food-halls-you-need-to-visit
https://www.zagat.com/b/11-must-visit-food-halls-across-the-u.s#1
Union Market in Washington, DC:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/Washington-DC-2013/i-HQqbVdx/0/L/P1660235-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/Washington-DC-2013/i-8Xrpdq2/0/L/P1660237-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/Washington-DC-2013/i-BR7gmDD/0/L/P1660238-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/Washington-DC-2013/i-nzq3LBP/0/L/P1660246-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/Washington-DC-2013/i-n76JXvX/0/X2/P1660240-X2.jpg)
Quote from: Kerry on July 13, 2016, 11:54:18 PM
I have to agree with mtraininjax on this subject. The money needed to salvage it would be better spent building something else.
I'm pretty sure the ideas thrown out by Ennis would be paid for by the owner/developer. At this time, the current owner has shown little interest in building something new without a significant public investment.
Quote from: Kerry on July 13, 2016, 11:54:18 PM
Step 1 - Negotiate with producers of Mars Attacks II to implode The Landing as part of the next Martian invasion.
Step 2 - Build something else.
I have to agree with mtraininjax on this subject. The money needed to salvage it would be better spent building something else.
OMG - They are making a sequel!?!?
LOL
Quote from: mtraininjax on July 13, 2016, 11:32:24 PM
The Jacksonville Landing is dead........
No way to put racing stripes on the broken down bus, no way to fix her. Sleiman has tried, the man who has MANY successful real estate strip malls cannot find a way to fix this broken down retail center. So stop trying to resusitate the old broad, let her die, and rebuild her as residential.
Maybe you missed it, had your head buried in the sand watching Bernillary on TV, http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/07/12/breaking-jacksonville-apartment-sale-breaks-local.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/07/12/breaking-jacksonville-apartment-sale-breaks-local.html) The Strand just sold for a record 65 million, for apartments in Jax. This was.....ahem, downtown, across the river from the dead Landing.
Mayor Curry, pull the plug on The Jacksonville Landing and rebuild it as a place for people to live, have their boats and build a solid base from the river, the source of Jacksonville's life, toward places like Hemming Plaza.
There are plenty of spaces for barnyard events for Fl/Ga, including the Old Shipyards, and Lake is right, we are probably a good 10 years from seeing it come to fruition. So why try and fix something that cannot be fixed, The Jacksonville Landing has been dying for 25 years, slowly each year. Put the old girl out of her misery.
You could probably say the same for DT for the last 40 years, and the folks in the suburbs have been saying this about the entirety of DT. The Landing can easily be re-branded if they wanted to do it...look at all of the public markets,etc. around today that weren't around or struggling 15 years ago. However, that is why we are here. I promise you, if Sleiman gave a damn he could bring the Landing back into the Big Leagues rather than being a gimicky minor league complex.
Also, there are so many areas for residential to go in throughout DT.
Quote from: FlaBoy on July 13, 2016, 10:52:57 AM
The food court idea is a no brainer. A restaurant with some event space would do well with the views and business community of DT.
I love the idea of creating cultural attractions in the Landing. Any museums that could move to the Landing or potential museums that have been discussed for Jax other than the USS Adams?
Ok, so assuming you are correct, the only way I can think of to "revitalize" The Landing would be to level it and start over. The current configuration pretty much doesn't allow for anything other than what it is now - and that isn't working.
To The Lakelander's point it may just have to sit there, slowing dying for another 5 years. But once the USS Adams shows up, there has to be a Shipyards to put it at. I think that was part of the agreement to obtain the vessel, but I could be wrong. Isn't that supposed to be happening in the near future - like at the end of last year? I think the Adams isn't going to get us a whole bunch myself. Having lived in Charleston, and seeing the Yorktown all the time, I never got the impression that it drew that many people - and that was an aircraft carrier with a museum of other cool items around it. I went once, and it was a neat addition to the skyline, but I know it cost a fortune to maintain and I don't believe that it was breaking even. Again, I could be wrong.
Jim
Quote from: thelakelander on July 14, 2016, 06:57:25 AM
^A food hall is probably closer to an indoor public market than a traditional mall food court. Here's a few images of Milwaukee's public market:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/Milwaukee-WI-March-2011/i-V56Vz8Z/0/L/DSC_0042-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/Milwaukee-WI-March-2011/i-SKqKpPW/0/L/DSC_0044-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/Milwaukee-WI-March-2011/i-zhNTbKb/0/L/DSC_0043-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/Milwaukee-WI-March-2011/i-xtrnVgv/0/L/DSC_0040-L.jpg)
http://www.moderncities.com/article/2016-jul-these-are-the-newest-food-halls-you-need-to-visit
https://www.zagat.com/b/11-must-visit-food-halls-across-the-u.s#1
In my experience, the difference between "Food Halls" and "Food Courts" is twofold: (1): Food Halls have different, trendier types of stalls than old school food courts, and (2): people actually go to them.
Quote from: JimInJax on July 14, 2016, 09:37:28 AM
Ok, so assuming you are correct, the only way I can think of to "revitalize" The Landing would be to level it and start over. The current configuration pretty much doesn't allow for anything other than what it is now - and that isn't working.
I present Bayside Marketplace:
(http://www.islandqueencruises.com/images/biscayne-lady-map.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/Miami-2013/i-7T9kpJZ/0/L/DSCF0296-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/Miami-2013/i-jbNXCKD/0/L/DSCF0297-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/Miami-2013/i-C2nXSfT/0/L/DSCF0295-L.jpg)
Bayside, the Landing's sibling in downtown Miami is over 90% occupied. It turns its back to downtown. Structurally, it's basically the same thing. Why is it successful and the Landing is not?
It's because the real problem isn't the footprint. The real issues are Jax's downtown market, politics and possibly retail strategy.
As for configuration, non-load bearing walls, barriers, etc. can be modified to resolve many issues some tend to think can only be resolved by complete demo and millions in public subsidies. There are plans to expand Bayside and better integrate it into downtown Miami. However, they're still keeping the retail buildings that face the bay as opposed to downtown.
(http://cdn.archinect.net/images/1200x/sa/saun839iysf1ykns.jpg)
(http://cdn.archinect.net/images/1200x/c4/c4i11hy722yey3y6.jpg)
QuoteTo The Lakelander's point it may just have to sit there, slowing dying for another 5 years. But once the USS Adams shows up, there has to be a Shipyards to put it at. I think that was part of the agreement to obtain the vessel, but I could be wrong.
This is incorrect. The Shipyards does not have to be developed to put a rusting vessel at one of its piers.
^ At this point, create a park at the Shipyards with the USS Adams and I think that will be the best thing we will be able to do for awhile.
Also, it is wild but Gainesville now has a completely urban Target in their midtown area. Wish we could have this somewhere in our core, never mind the Landing:
http://www.gainesville.com/news/20160712/cvs-squeezing-into-target-express-at-standard
If by 'Food Hall' you mean something like Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia or even Pike Place Market in Seattle then by all means - YES. But that would require gutting the entire structure and evicting every tenant. I don't see the current ownership doing that.
Quote from: vicupstate on July 14, 2016, 05:49:13 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on July 13, 2016, 11:32:24 PM
The Jacksonville Landing is dead........
No way to put racing stripes on the broken down bus, no way to fix her. Sleiman has tried, the man who has MANY successful real estate strip malls cannot find a way to fix this broken down retail center. So stop trying to resusitate the old broad, let her die, and rebuild her as residential.
Maybe you missed it, had your head buried in the sand watching Bernillary on TV, http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/07/12/breaking-jacksonville-apartment-sale-breaks-local.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/07/12/breaking-jacksonville-apartment-sale-breaks-local.html) The Strand just sold for a record 65 million, for apartments in Jax. This was.....ahem, downtown, across the river from the dead Landing.
Mayor Curry, pull the plug on The Jacksonville Landing and rebuild it as a place for people to live, have their boats and build a solid base from the river, the source of Jacksonville's life, toward places like Hemming Plaza.
There are plenty of spaces for barnyard events for Fl/Ga, including the Old Shipyards, and Lake is right, we are probably a good 10 years from seeing it come to fruition. So why try and fix something that cannot be fixed, The Jacksonville Landing has been dying for 25 years, slowly each year. Put the old girl out of her misery.
Doing residential ONLY would be a huge mistake and wasted opportunity. There is no demonstrated market for either For Sale or rental units at the price level required to build a NEW high rise residential, so you are talking about something on scale of the Brooklyn projects. The Strand was built at 10 year ago prices and given the type of construction (high-rise) it should come as no surprise that it's per unit price is at the very top.
Given the current market for office and residential DT currently, renovation is the only option that is viable.
Yeah, I would love to see a huge project that builds a beautiful new attraction downtown but at this point do I think it is feasible? No. Slieman is a businessman who wants to make money without investing anything. That's his game so he wants COJ to pay for his new money making venture. Is that going to happen? No. COJ is broke. So our best option is to convince Slieman of a cheaper investment that can still turn the Landing around and I think what Lake proposes can do that if done correctly. BTW, has anyone talked to Slieman directly about this option? I feel like TransForm Jax has proven themselves with the Landing so far so maybe he would listen to a well put together proposal for a say $2 million reinvestment strategy.
Quote from: Kerry on July 14, 2016, 10:57:16 AM
If by 'Food Hall' you mean something like Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia or even Pike Place Market in Seattle then by all means - YES. But that would require gutting the entire structure and evicting every tenant. I don't see the current ownership doing that.
I don't see the current owner doing much either, but it really wouldn't take that much to convert some of the various empty or struggling retail spots to another use. Hell, they probably could do it in the current food court, which would bring some of the life Lake's talking about to that prime location.
Quote from: Kerry on July 14, 2016, 10:57:16 AM
If by 'Food Hall' you mean something like Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia or even Pike Place Market in Seattle then by all means - YES. But that would require gutting the entire structure and evicting every tenant. I don't see the current ownership doing that.
I'm not sure Jax could support something the size of Reading Terminal Market or Pike Place. I doubt you could fill up 125,000 square feet of retail space with that one concept. However, there's no reason something smaller can't work without kicking all tenants out. Flagship Commons in Omaha's Westroads Mall is an example of this:
http://www.ggp.com/content/corporate/data/siteleaseplans/WESTROADS%20MALL-3958-LP3.pdf
Quote from: JimInJax on July 13, 2016, 09:15:11 AM
IMO - here are the main problems with The Landing:
1. Limited onsite parking if you want to go by car.
2. Vagrants / crime - we used to go by boat and sometimes spend the night. Now It doesn't feel safe anymore. Maybe add a JSO substation?
3. Lack of dock space for boats. If something fun is happening, it fills up fast and you can't get in. Add some piers and floating docks. Add power for the boats and allow people to stay up to 72 hours like Metro Park Marina
At this point, it's so broken I think many people have just given up and are waiting for The Shipyards to replace The Landing and do it right. Once The Shipyards open The Landing is doomed anyway. This city does a terrible job of leveraging the waterfront. The river is the lifeblood of this city, and COJ planners all but ignore it.
No parking? There are five parking garages within two blocks, including one directly across the street. Then there's always the Skyway (free).
Quote from: exnewsman on July 14, 2016, 02:20:34 PM
Quote from: JimInJax on July 13, 2016, 09:15:11 AM
IMO - here are the main problems with The Landing:
1. Limited onsite parking if you want to go by car.
2. Vagrants / crime - we used to go by boat and sometimes spend the night. Now It doesn't feel safe anymore. Maybe add a JSO substation?
3. Lack of dock space for boats. If something fun is happening, it fills up fast and you can't get in. Add some piers and floating docks. Add power for the boats and allow people to stay up to 72 hours like Metro Park Marina
At this point, it's so broken I think many people have just given up and are waiting for The Shipyards to replace The Landing and do it right. Once The Shipyards open The Landing is doomed anyway. This city does a terrible job of leveraging the waterfront. The river is the lifeblood of this city, and COJ planners all but ignore it.
No parking? There are five parking garages within two blocks, including one directly across the street. Then there's always the Skyway (free).
Not to mention about 50 square blocks of free on-street parking after 6PM and on weekends.
Dedicated parking is an issue for chains. However, the parking situation could possibly be more flexible with a different mixed-use development strategy.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 14, 2016, 03:20:36 PM
Dedicated parking is an issue for chains. However, the parking situation could possibly be more flexible with a different mixed-use development strategy.
I think this is a serious failure on the City's part though. They claim to want an urban downtown and downtown adjacent neighborhoods, but then shoot themselves in the foot by approving half-ass (can I use that word here) suburban style developments like the Gate gas station in Brooklyn. We can't be both at the same time - we either need walkable urbanism or drivable sub-urbanism. There is no such thing as walkable suburbia or drivable urban but is what we keep getting from the City. Every chain in America has urban stores with no dedicated parking, but they are instead surrounded by residential developments and mass transit in a walkable urban environment.
Dedicated parking for the Landing has been an issue for a long time. Having that terrible surface lot next door is also half-baked. It's essentially riverfront property that's being used to provide a small but inadequate amount of parking. One of the worst projects ever conceived in Jacksonville was that Parador garage, which is a block from the Landing and doesn't provide the necessary parking. Fixing that will be a long-term issue, if it ever gets done.
You guys need to stop bashing Downtown and the landing. All those other vibrant cities you guys are comparing with Jacksonville have better vibes because people are living and working in those cities. But technically they are not nicer than JAX, they don't have our ST JOHN RIVER running thru their cities. In Jacksonville people drive to downtown to work and drive back to their homes in the suburbs or by the beaches lol!! I Personally don't see nothing wrong with the landing maybe just needs some repairs and some fresh new business. Downtown is gorgeous; yes it can be better, but only when you people decide to live, eat, play; or taking parts of those events. Riverside and Brooklyn it's a good start but Downtown needs more. Also stop complaining about parking there are plenty all over the streets. I usually go at night and never have any problems to park. I can tell you Downtown is very safe compare to years ago. Thanks to JSO they are doing a good job to keep the city and downtown safe. The way I see it only You people can save downtown. Also the city needs to do a better job to bring more jobs and business to downtown (China, Canada, and some Europeans countries can help) its just there are not enough tourist and people living there and not enough business, apartments bars and restaurants and things to do. Man! the other day I took a walk by the Jaguar Stadium at the metropolitan stadium OH MY GOD WHAT A WASTE! So much potential.
Also that shipyard crap, we can forget about it; because its not going to happen.
Quote from: FRANTZ46 on July 15, 2016, 09:51:40 PM
You guys need to stop bashing Downtown and the landing. All those other vibrant cities you guys are comparing with Jacksonville have better vibes because people are living and working in those cities. But technically they are not nicer than JAX, they don't have our ST JOHN RIVER running thru their cities. In Jacksonville people drive to downtown to work and drive back to their homes in the suburbs or by the beaches lol!! I Personally don't see nothing wrong with the landing maybe just needs some repairs and some fresh new business. Downtown is gorgeous; yes it can be better, but only when you people decide to live, eat, play; or taking parts of those events. Riverside and Brooklyn it's a good start but Downtown needs more. Also stop complaining about parking there are plenty all over the streets. I usually go at night and never have any problems to park. I can tell you Downtown is very safe compare to years ago. Thanks to JSO they are doing a good job to keep the city and downtown safe. The way I see it only You people can save downtown. Also the city needs to do a better job to bring more jobs and business to downtown (China, Canada, and some Europeans countries can help) its just there are not enough tourist and people living there and not enough business, apartments bars and restaurants and things to do. Man! the other day I took a walk by the Jaguar Stadium at the metro park OH MY GOD WHAT A WASTE! So much potential.
Also that shipyard crap, we can forget about it; because its not going to happen.
You guys need to stop bashing Downtown and the landing. All those other vibrant cities you guys are comparing with Jacksonville have better vibes because people are living and working in those cities. But technically they are not nicer than JAX, they don't have our ST JOHN RIVER running thru their cities. In Jacksonville people drive to downtown to work and drive back to their homes in the suburbs or by the beaches lol!! I Personally don't see nothing wrong with the landing maybe just needs some repairs and some fresh new business. Downtown is gorgeous; yes it can be better, but only when you people decide to live, eat, play; or taking parts of those events. Riverside and Brooklyn it's a good start but Downtown needs more. Also stop complaining about parking there are plenty all over the streets. I usually go at night and never have any problems to park. I can tell you Downtown is very safe compare to years ago. Thanks to JSO they are doing a good job to keep the city and downtown safe. The way I see it only You people can save downtown. Also the city needs to do a better job to bring more jobs and business to downtown (China, Canada, and some Europeans countries can help) its just there are not enough tourist and people living there and not enough business, apartments bars and restaurants and things to do. Man! the other day I took a walk by the Jaguar Stadium at the metro park stadium OH MY GOD WHAT A WASTE! So much potential.
Also that shipyard crap, we can forget about it; because its not going to happen.
Once more please.
Quote from: JimInJax on July 14, 2016, 09:37:28 AM
Quote from: FlaBoy on July 13, 2016, 10:52:57 AM
The food court idea is a no brainer. A restaurant with some event space would do well with the views and business community of DT.
I love the idea of creating cultural attractions in the Landing. Any museums that could move to the Landing or potential museums that have been discussed for Jax other than the USS Adams?
Ok, so assuming you are correct, the only way I can think of to "revitalize" The Landing would be to level it and start over. The current configuration pretty much doesn't allow for anything other than what it is now - and that isn't working.
To The Lakelander's point it may just have to sit there, slowing dying for another 5 years. But once the USS Adams shows up, there has to be a Shipyards to put it at. I think that was part of the agreement to obtain the vessel, but I could be wrong. Isn't that supposed to be happening in the near future - like at the end of last year? I think the Adams isn't going to get us a whole bunch myself. Having lived in Charleston, and seeing the Yorktown all the time, I never got the impression that it drew that many people - and that was an aircraft carrier with a museum of other cool items around it. I went once, and it was a neat addition to the skyline, but I know it cost a fortune to maintain and I don't believe that it was breaking even. Again, I could be wrong.
Jim
BJP -Better Jacksonville Presents
Active legislation 2016-425 Public Hearing 7/26/16 for money for the Jax Historic Naval Ship Association. (USS Adams)
Quote from: Tacachale on July 14, 2016, 04:08:11 PM
Dedicated parking for the Landing has been an issue for a long time. Having that terrible surface lot next door is also half-baked. It's essentially riverfront property that's being used to provide a small but inadequate amount of parking. One of the worst projects ever conceived in Jacksonville was that Parador garage, which is a block from the Landing and doesn't provide the necessary parking. Fixing that will be a long-term issue, if it ever gets done.
while the design of the Parador garage leaves much to be desires, it is Sleiman's interpretation that it doesn't meet the requirements of the Landing lease. And guess who owns the surface lot on the river and hasn't been paying property taxes on it.
If the spaces aren't available 24/7, they probably don't meet Rouse's or any other retail developer's interpretation either.
Since we're never going to stop providing the same ideas for this space... Artegon Marketplace in Orlando is yet another example of what would be perfect for the Landing. http://www.artegonmarketplace.com/shops//all/page/2 (http://www.artegonmarketplace.com/shops//all/page/2)
http://www.cltampa.com/food-drink/openings-closings/article/20830232/tampa-heights-getting-chefdriven-experience-called-hall-on-franklin
QuoteInspired by Euro-style food halls and successful restaurants in major cities, The Hall is exactly what you're thinking: a dining hall made up of local restaurants co-existing under one roof and serving fresh, prepared foods. Some will bring favorites from their flagship locations, while others will introduce new pop-up projects.
^Yeah, instead of trendy, they're becoming as common as mall food courts. The market has changed. It's only a matter of time before a few find their way to Jax.
Been in Atlanta the last few days on business.
Has anyone been to Krog Street Market?
Someone needs to tie Toney Sleiman up, drag him down there Christmas Vacation-style, and show him what the Landing could look like without even altering the existing structure that much.
Place is amazing, and packed to the gills, even on a random Tuesday night. Waited 40 minutes for a table at Superica.
The food hall concept is something I believe the Landing could succeed using the existing structure.
https://www.moderncities.com/article/2016-oct-a-foodies-paradise-the-awesome-food-halls-of-atlanta
https://www.moderncities.com/article/2016-sep-the-souths-14-must-visit-food-halls-
^I agree with that. Especially if they got on it now, it could be a big hit. It's not like it's much harder than running the food court they already have. A food hall is just a food court with better food, and that people go to.
Quote from: KenFSU on February 22, 2018, 10:52:42 AM
Been in Atlanta the last few days on business.
Has anyone been to Krog Street Market?
Someone needs to tie Toney Sleiman up, drag him down there Christmas Vacation-style, and show him what the Landing could look like without even altering the existing structure that much.
Place is amazing, and packed to the gills, even on a random Tuesday night. Waited 40 minutes for a table at Superica.
From what I remember, isn't Krog Street surrounded by quite a bit of residential homes/complexes? I know the dedicated parking lot is pretty small.
I agree that it would be easy to mimic the Krog Street vibe at the Landing by just upscaling the food offerings (I think there are also a few specialty shops like a pet store and homemade/organic soap joint), but to match the success, you would need the foot traffic that a large downtown residential population would provide. I'm also guessing that the Landing is just a bit too far from the Sports Complex to draw those folks who come downtown for a concert/sporting event.
The setting is completely different. If the landing were in the middle of a neighborhood it would be a different story too.
Quote from: Todd_Parker on February 22, 2018, 12:51:19 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on February 22, 2018, 10:52:42 AM
Been in Atlanta the last few days on business.
Has anyone been to Krog Street Market?
Someone needs to tie Toney Sleiman up, drag him down there Christmas Vacation-style, and show him what the Landing could look like without even altering the existing structure that much.
Place is amazing, and packed to the gills, even on a random Tuesday night. Waited 40 minutes for a table at Superica.
From what I remember, isn't Krog Street surrounded by quite a bit of residential homes/complexes? I know the dedicated parking lot is pretty small.
I agree that it would be easy to mimic the Krog Street vibe at the Landing by just upscaling the food offerings (I think there are also a few specialty shops like a pet store and homemade/organic soap joint), but to match the success, you would need the foot traffic that a large downtown residential population would provide. I'm also guessing that the Landing is just a bit too far from the Sports Complex to draw those folks who come downtown for a concert/sporting event.
Krog Street Market is actually a really far walk, bordering on undoable in Atlanta climate, from Midtown or Downtown Atlanta. Lot of residential homes and some low-rise complexes surround it, but I'd compare the area more to Riverside/Brooklyn than urban Atlanta. Was standing outside waiting, and every other person seemed to be arriving via Uber.
But I'm with you. The Landing needs more foot traffic than we currently see to really flourish. That said, more foot traffic is definitely on the way via the Barnett, Laura Street Trio, UNF, FCCJ dorms, Lavilla developments, etc. With even more potentially coming via the 13-story tower proposed by the Aetna building and a potential mixed-use completion of the Berkman 2.
Now's the time for Sleiman to get serious about the Landing, particularly with the Cordish development down by the Sports Complex in the queue.
And what better way to differentiate yourself from the big box Cordish development than by deeply focusing on local, with a food hall, local vendors, and edgy restaurants from the area's top chefs.
A food hall is more of a regional draw than a neighborhood supported destination. Krog is only one of hundreds across the country. You'll find them in urban and suburban settings. More residential in downtown would not hurt but I'd argue there's enough people in downtown and Jax now to make a food hall work.
I'll tell you what would be awesome there: Eataly. I've been to the one in Manhattan. Big footprint, great variety of shops and restaurants. Open format.
Don't hold your breath on that one. Although they're opening a Miami location, their smallest US location is Boston.
As great as having the Landing convert to a trendy food hall, I still think an ideal location for one would be the old Pic and Save on 7th Street in Springfield. Any new concept for the Landing would be most welcomed but I think it would work so much better there. Unlike where the Landing is, not only is there an ample population base and plenty of parking but the idea of all the food halls I've been to was to offer neighborhood residents there restaurant and food purveyor options they don't currently have. Even though they have some decent options for dining, Springfield is still virtually a foodie and fresh produce desert and once that perception changes so will the fortunes of the neighborhood, particularly concerning commercial development.
For something to work in Springfield, it would need be a regional draw (sort of like many of Riverside's restaurants and bars only survive because of people driving into the neigborhood). Springfield doesn't have the population to support something the size of a Pic N Save on its own.
@ Lakelander.......PARTY POOPER!!! Don't get mad, I'm just playing.
Lol Jacksonville has turned me into a realist.
[/quote]
Quote from: thelakelander on February 22, 2018, 04:31:45 PM
For something to work in Springfield, it would need be a regional draw (sort of like many of Riverside's restaurants and bars only survive because of people driving into the neigborhood). Springfield doesn't have the population to support something the size of a Pic N Save on its own.
I wouldn't see a food hall operator using the entire space, just have room for partitions for vendors a few kitchens seating and maybe a cooking demonstration area. Because what is it used for now? Are they waiting for Target to come on in? I just feel that a food hall or something like it would be a great adaptive reuse of an abandoned building (this goes for the old Pic and Save on McDuff as well).
And why couldn't this be a regional draw for the area? Aren't events like Parade of Homes and Porchfest regional draws? Would it kill the "vibe" having hundreds of visitors spending some money in the neighborhood every weekend? Keep in mind that areas north and northwest of there are getting some decent growth and it would be nice to have something different and unique for them to go to that doesn't require a ton of ditch crossing.
Quote from: downtownbrown on February 22, 2018, 02:52:37 PM
I'll tell you what would be awesome there: Eataly. I've been to the one in Manhattan. Big footprint, great variety of shops and restaurants. Open format.
You know what I really enjoy is this place called Le District which is basically a French version of Eataly. Sure is a lot better than the one in Lower Manhattan.
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on February 22, 2018, 05:52:35 PMI wouldn't see a food hall operator using the entire space, just have room for partitions for vendors a few kitchens seating and maybe a cooking demonstration area. Because what is it used for now? Are they waiting for Target to come on in? I just feel that a food hall or something like it would be a great adaptive reuse of an abandoned building (this goes for the old Pic and Save on McDuff as well).
Yes, like food courts in malls, there's room for more than one food hall concept in a metro with 1.5 million residents. Even Winter Garden (not Winter Park) has one called Plant Street Market that pretty popular.
QuoteAnd why couldn't this be a regional draw for the area? Aren't events like Parade of Homes and Porchfest regional draws? Would it kill the "vibe" having hundreds of visitors spending some money in the neighborhood every weekend? Keep in mind that areas north and northwest of there are getting some decent growth and it would be nice to have something different and unique for them to go to that doesn't require a ton of ditch crossing.
I wouldn't compare the needs of an everyday business with an annual weekend event like Porchfest. However, just about anything in Springfield will need the support of people outside of the neighborhood to survive. Currently, it's significantly less dense than it was at the height of its popularity. Btw, I wasn't saying it's something wrong with having a regional draw in the neighborhood. Just stating that's a pretty big building with no frontage from Main Street (and Main doesn't have high AADT anyway since I-95 siphoned north-south traffic off of it).
Plant Street Market - Winter Garden, FL(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Winter-Garden-December-2017/i-7Bk3MrW/0/4733aac2/L/20171226_154023-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Winter-Garden-December-2017/i-35QmQhq/0/354d5eb1/L/20171226_154126-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Winter-Garden-December-2017/i-Zs8zxW7/0/f4288bbd/L/20171226_154155-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Winter-Garden-December-2017/i-vGnwGKb/0/289243f7/L/20171226_154318-L.jpg)
Quote from: thelakelander on February 22, 2018, 05:11:09 PM
Lol Jacksonville has turned me into a realist.
@ LAKELANDER.......LOLOL...I hear ya. I love me some Jacksonville, but when is this madness, laxity, and red tape stop? I think the good ole boys, or most of them are pushing up daisies; so why still the apprehension, caution, fear, WHATEVER?! Let's be the big city of almost a million people that we claim to be. If we can't be that, or are afraid to be a big boy, then shrink the city limits back to pre-consolidation, and be the 250,000 or so city that you really are. Hmm hmm...I did say I love me some Jax and I've got ALL of that off my chest.
Wasn't a food hall part of the plans at Doro District?
I liked the idea of a small Food Hall at Edgewood/Post before El Jefe decided to come into that space.
@heights unknown, it's ok, i love me some Jax, too :)
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on February 22, 2018, 05:52:35 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on February 22, 2018, 04:31:45 PM
For something to work in Springfield, it would need be a regional draw (sort of like many of Riverside's restaurants and bars only survive because of people driving into the neigborhood). Springfield doesn't have the population to support something the size of a Pic N Save on its own.
I wouldn't see a food hall operator using the entire space, just have room for partitions for vendors a few kitchens seating and maybe a cooking demonstration area. Because what is it used for now? Are they waiting for Target to come on in? I just feel that a food hall or something like it would be a great adaptive reuse of an abandoned building (this goes for the old Pic and Save on McDuff as well).
And why couldn't this be a regional draw for the area? Aren't events like Parade of Homes and Porchfest regional draws? Would it kill the "vibe" having hundreds of visitors spending some money in the neighborhood every weekend? Keep in mind that areas north and northwest of there are getting some decent growth and it would be nice to have something different and unique for them to go to that doesn't require a ton of ditch crossing.
Quote from: downtownbrown on February 22, 2018, 02:52:37 PM
I'll tell you what would be awesome there: Eataly. I've been to the one in Manhattan. Big footprint, great variety of shops and restaurants. Open format.
You know what I really enjoy is this place called Le District which is basically a French version of Eataly. Sure is a lot better than the one in Lower Manhattan.
[/quote]
OK, I'll compromise. How bout the shops underneath the Plaza?
Has there ever or will there ever be a Harley Davidson shop there @ the landing, or is that window with HD merchandise gonna just stay there and mock me forever? ;) lol