Haven't always agreed with the ACLU, but I thought this ad was spectacular in lieu of the new FISA "compromise" just passed:
(http://www.aclu.org/images/safefree/puc_ad052406.gif)
Yeah, I heard about them doing this quite some time ago....and in all honesty, what's going to happen to them...nothing...
Not sure that it is actually illegal. My understanding is that it is records not conversations. I imagine if it was actually illegal the ACLU would have sued to stop it long ago...
The bill, containing retroactive immunity for telecom companies, was just passed by Congress on Wednesday. Within hours of Bush signing it into law, the ACLU filed their federal lawsuit. Under the bill, the executive branch has blanket authority to demand telecoms hand over emails, telephone records, and text messages "thought" to be communicating with terrorists overseas. Randomly doing this without specific court orders or without probable cause and/or warrant is as gross a violation of the 4th Amendment of the Constitution as you're going to find. As we've seen in the last few years, either the United States government either legitimately suspects that millions, maybe tens of millions, of its own citizens are a terrorist threat, or they are grossly abusing this power. No noble government should have unfettered access into the personal lives of its law abiding citizens. Worst of all, because the bill grants companies like AT&T, Verizon, Google, etc. full immunity from criminal or civil suit by their customers, there is really nothing that the average citizen can do to ensure the privacy and right to be left alone that the United States Constitution is supposed to ensure us.
I'm extremely disappointed in Obama for vowing to fillibuster or oppose this bill, and then completely selling out his supporters in signing it after securing the nomination. McCain couldn't even be bothered to show up for the vote.
Obama would have been better served Not voting also since the bill passed by a wide margin...
The way I understand the bill though is the monitoring allows the government to eavesdrop without a court order on communications conducted by a person reasonably believed to be outside the U.S., even if an American is on one end of the conversation â€"so long as that American is not the intended target of the surveillance. In addition it protects the the phone companies from retroactive lawsuits...
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17805746
Turns out Obama is willing to sell out his far left supporters and change his position to make himself more electable in the general election. Hmm.. Perhaps this isnt the new sort of politics which he promised....
Quote from: stephendare on July 11, 2008, 02:38:16 PM
As if this wasnt the devil child of your hero, W.
Nobody would have to be considering bankrupting our entire national telecommunications network for breaking the law if it wasnt for that criminal in the white house.
I think you meant the criminal hiding in the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan...
Quote from: stephendare on July 11, 2008, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on July 11, 2008, 02:43:44 PM
Quote from: stephendare on July 11, 2008, 02:38:16 PM
As if this wasnt the devil child of your hero, W.
Nobody would have to be considering bankrupting our entire national telecommunications network for breaking the law if it wasnt for that criminal in the white house.
I think you meant the criminal hiding in the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan...
I don't get it. Is Bin Laden issuing executive orders to break our laws?
Cmon now... none of this would be an issue had he not sent four airliners to attack and kill innocent americans. I also do not think it is an executive order... Congress passed a law... by a wide bipartisan margin and W signed it.
That's right BridgeTroll. All you have to do is mention terrorism or "the children" and most Americans will support giving the government pretty much whatever power they ask for.
Bob Barr 2008.com
Does this include Craigslist M4M and Connections? JUST KIDDING
Quote from: jacksonvilleconfidential on July 12, 2008, 01:29:26 AM
Does this include Craigslist M4M and Connections? JUST KIDDING
Few things in the world depress quite as much as Craigslist personal ads.
I feel like I need a cold shower after browsing.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on July 11, 2008, 05:39:45 PM
That's right BridgeTroll. All you have to do is mention terrorism or "the children" and most Americans will support giving the government pretty much whatever power they ask for.
Bob Barr 2008.com
Bob Barr. yuk! now NEWT2008.com i can support.
http://www.theseminal.com/2008/08/12/intel-abuseas-if-you-needed-more-evidence/
Great article... A few things stand out to me...
QuoteThe Federal Bureau of Investigation said Friday that it had improperly obtained the phone records of reporters for The New York Times and The Washington Post in the newspapers’ Indonesia bureaus in 2004.
The Justice Department Inspectors found the error, and the FBI agreed, apologized, and is looking to correct the problem. Incidently... Indonesia is an al qaida hideout.
QuoteWhile these cases probably didn’t fall under the direct purview of FISA/FISC
Even the authors agree it does not fall under FISA...
QuoteCongress has repeatedly chosen the coward’s path
I can agree with this also. Didnt Barak support FISA?