Opinion: Hillary Clinton is Fundamentally Honest
(http://i.imgur.com/Vxs8qWM.jpg)
This opinion piece written by Michael Arnovitz and backed by some interesting data is going viral on Facebook. Whether you think high or low of HC, it's definitely worth a read. At the end of the write-up there is a link to another piece where Arnovitz responds to criticisms with a follow-up article.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2016-jul-opinion-hillary-clinton-is-fundamentally-honest
Excellent work! I hope it gets some traction.
Let me sum it up:
The only reason why people dislike her is be she's female, not because of her actions or words.
It's OK that she changes her politcal stances, twists her words, and embellishes the truth; all politicians do.
She must be honest because Trump is so dishonest.
Scandals are only accusations, and don't hold any truth.
It's OK where her money comes from, and how she uses it.
Ridiculous. I'm sure if someone here wrote a pre-Trump piece and posted it here, it would shredded and the poster burned at the stake.
^ are you offering to write a pro-trump piece? And, where would you prefer we plant the stake? ;D
In seriousness, I would love to read a thoughtful pro-trump piece, but I don't think it is possible for someone to write a reasonable argument supporting Trump.
Interesting read.
Hilz is honest as long as it doesnt interfere with her goals.
Unfortunately for her she lets her professional goals get in front of her moral compass. She has a personality that resents admitting fault.
Does it make her a fundamentally bad person? Hardly.
But it doesnt lend her to be exceptional in certain fields.
Arguing cases in front of a judge perhaps, hence her ambition to go into the legal profession. She would be a crappy physician.
But her approach to dealing with things is strictly utilitarian, in other words, it sometimes not an issue of right or wrong, its what you can prove.
I think that is what drives the resentment in some cases.
southsider1015 nailed it perfectly. This article does claim it's an opinion piece, which it certainly is. Hilary is anything but honest.
I have nothing nice to say about Trump either though.
Johnson 2016!
I had a random thought today pondering what the conversation would be like if the 3 most accused disingenuous people of the world had to sit in the same room and discuss something significant.
Putin
Netanyahu
HR Clinton
Would 3 lies combined constitute a truth?
A few more liars in a single room and you'd have Congress! :)
Check out the scoring for politicos and compare on politfact
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/
(http://www.politifact.com/personalities/)
Hillary Clinton
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/ (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/)
Donald Trump
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
(http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/)
Does Metrojacksonville endorse Hillary Clinton? I am asking because the post is entered by Metrojacksonville.
I was just wondering because usually MJ does not endorse political candidates. Endorsements are usually personal and on the forum. That is all.
Got it.
Both are unpopular. Only one is a threat.
"This election," a spokesman for Sen. Ben Sasse (R-Neb.) said Thursday, "remains a dumpster fire." Well, yes, the two major-party candidates for president are historically unpopular. But if this election is unusually bad, it is not because both parties chose bad candidates. There is no equivalence between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton — as even responsible Republicans should be able to recognize.
Ms. Clinton is a knowledgeable politician who has been vetted many times over. She understands and respects the U.S. Constitution. She knows policy. She can cite accomplishments in the public interest, such as pressing through an important children's health insurance program during her husband's administration. As a senator, she was respected by colleagues on both sides of the aisle. She completed four years as secretary of state to generally positive reviews. She began her presidential campaign by rolling out a series of serious policy papers.
None of this means you have to like Ms. Clinton or believe she would be a good president. You may disagree with her views; we have done so often enough and will do so again when we think she is wrong. You may believe she was foolish to push for the Libya intervention, arrogant to keep her emails out of the official State Department server, greedy to take large speaking fees as a private citizen. But measured against other major-party candidates of recent times, Ms. Clinton is well within established bounds of competence, knowledge, commitment and integrity. She is not a dumpster candidate.
Mr. Trump, by contrast, has waged a campaign based on bigotry, ignorance and resentment. He has no experience as a public servant, and his private record of bankruptcies and exploitation should be disqualifying. He regularly circulates falsehoods. He has no discernible interest in or knowledge of policy. Just in recent days, Mr. Trump tweeted out an anti-Semitic image circulating on neo-Nazi websites and attacked the media for reporting as much. He called one sitting senator a loser and threatened another while proving that he lacks even a passing familiarity with the Constitution. He praised one of the most vile dictators of the 20th century.
Those Republicans with enough self-respect to be mortified by the man their party is about to nominate continually hold out hope for some magical transformation. Yet even if Mr. Trump flipped his agenda — not a problem for a man with almost no fixed beliefs — he would still be the candidate who mocked a disabled reporter, proposed banning Muslims from entering the United States, attacked a judge based on his ethnicity, celebrated violence at his rallies, demeaned women and promised to round up and deport 11 million undocumented immigrants . He would still be the candidate who vaulted to political prominence with race-based attacks on the incumbent president and launched his campaign by calling Mexicans rapists.
Mr. Sasse has proved to be a rare Republican official with the moral courage to speak as honestly about Mr. Trump after he clinched the nomination as he did before. It's not surprising that the senator would want to dismiss the whole campaign as a mess, and we don't doubt that he genuinely fears the direction in which Ms. Clinton would lead the nation.
But to equate the two candidates as indistinguishably unqualified products of a rigged or failed system only feeds public cynicism while blurring distinctions that should not be blurred. Ms. Clinton is a politician, long in the arena, whom you may or may not support. Mr. Trump is a danger to the republic.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/both-are-unpopular-only-one-is-a-threat/2016/07/10/4d78dce8-4529-11e6-bc99-7d269f8719b1_story.html
Trump isn't really a threat, he has no idea how to play the game in DC. Heck, some of his more pointed policies wouldn't even make it to the floor of either house of Congress.
Quote from: fsquid on July 11, 2016, 01:39:18 PM
Trump isn't really a threat, he has no idea how to play the game in DC. Heck, some of his more pointed policies wouldn't even make it to the floor of either house of Congress.
Not only that but if you break down his support across the board in a general election he can at the best maybe claim more than 25% to 28% of the real vote and I am thinking with a Clinton/Trump ticket we will see a very low turn out. In fact a recent poll has people using their vote against Trump or Clinton, not in support.
Turnout will be 1996ish levels. Enthusiasm on both sides may be at an all time low.
Quote from: FlaBoy on July 11, 2016, 04:56:58 PM
Turnout will be 1996ish levels. Enthusiasm on both sides may be at an all time low.
Yup!
Quote from: southsider1015 on July 09, 2016, 08:00:39 AM
Let me sum it up:
The only reason why people dislike her is be she's female, not because of her actions or words.
It's OK that she changes her politcal stances, twists her words, and embellishes the truth; all politicians do.
She must be honest because Trump is so dishonest.
Scandals are only accusations, and don't hold any truth.
It's OK where her money comes from, and how she uses it.
Ridiculous. I'm sure if someone here wrote a pre-Trump piece and posted it here, it would shredded and the poster burned at the stake.
You must have read something different than I did. You are saying the exact crap that this article is trying to make people see is not true. You should just move on because let's face it you are Hillary Hater and no amount or truth will EVER change that.
Quote from: spuwho on July 09, 2016, 03:01:48 PM
Interesting read.
Hilz is honest as long as it doesnt interfere with her goals.
Unfortunately for her she lets her professional goals get in front of her moral compass. She has a personality that resents admitting fault.
Does it make her a fundamentally bad person? Hardly.
But it doesnt lend her to be exceptional in certain fields.
Arguing cases in front of a judge perhaps, hence her ambition to go into the legal profession. She would be a crappy physician.
But her approach to dealing with things is strictly utilitarian, in other words, it sometimes not an issue of right or wrong, its what you can prove.
I think that is what drives the resentment in some cases.
Another person who will NEVER think anything but the crap that you have been TRAINED to believe. You should have just moved on when you saw the title....
Quote from: spuwho on July 09, 2016, 10:22:48 PM
I had a random thought today pondering what the conversation would be like if the 3 most accused disingenuous people of the world had to sit in the same room and discuss something significant.
Putin
Netanyahu
HR Clinton
Would 3 lies combined constitute a truth?
You once again have proven you believe anything you are taught to believe about Hillary.....
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on July 11, 2016, 08:23:14 AM
Quote from: TheCat on July 09, 2016, 08:25:02 AM
^ are you offering to write a pro-trump piece? And, where would you prefer we plant the stake? ;D
In seriousness, I would love to read a thoughtful pro-trump piece, but I don't think it is possible for someone to write a reasonable argument supporting Trump.
1. I am pretty liberal and all I have to say is....HAHAHAHAAHAAAAA, are you joking? Hillary is fundamentally a shady, slimy, careerist with her own success and wealth as her number 1 goal. That said, she is still the best option at this point...by a long shot.
2. I think there is something thoughtful to be said for Trump vis-a-vis the fact that he seems to genuinely want to build back America's middle class manufacturing sector, and that is a good thing. Also, though it is troublesome to me whenever any multimillionaire tries to buy office, there is something to be said for the fact that, by virtue of being self-financed, Trump is not beholden to special interests (to some degree-- he has still cravenly pandered to NRA and evangelicals).
I want to know what made so many people believe that she is slimy and shady and all the other BS? You have been seduced by the right wing lie....
Too bad!
You lose credibility when you write "the right wing lie".
Quote from: avonjax on July 11, 2016, 11:25:03 PM
Quote from: spuwho on July 09, 2016, 10:22:48 PM
I had a random thought today pondering what the conversation would be like if the 3 most accused disingenuous people of the world had to sit in the same room and discuss something significant.
Putin
Netanyahu
HR Clinton
Would 3 lies combined constitute a truth?
You once again have proven you believe anything you are taught to believe about Hillary.....
Not everything. What's your story?
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on July 11, 2016, 04:32:35 PM
Quote from: fsquid on July 11, 2016, 01:39:18 PM
Trump isn't really a threat, he has no idea how to play the game in DC. Heck, some of his more pointed policies wouldn't even make it to the floor of either house of Congress.
Not only that but if you break down his support across the board in a general election he can at the best maybe claim more than 25% to 28% of the real vote and I am thinking with a Clinton/Trump ticket we will see a very low turn out. In fact a recent poll has people using their vote against Trump or Clinton, not in support.
agreed
we'll see. I think Bernie's army stays home in droves though.
Quote from: stephendare on July 12, 2016, 03:35:55 PM
Quote from: fsquid on July 12, 2016, 03:29:40 PM
we'll see. I think Bernie's army stays home in droves though.
I don't think they will. Its a passionate bunch, and the possibility of a literal right wing would be dictatorship is a powerful motivator.
These kids are worried (passionately) about native american rights in Alaska. Do you honestly think that they are going to miss Trump's extremism on every issue that they care about?
Now that their attention isn't focused on the badness of Hillary Clinton's rather pedestrian evils, they will be able to see the forest for the trees.
More than half of them will indeed stay home and another sizable block of his supporters are moving behind "Jill Stein" a portion will vote as will I for Hillary, not because they support her but because none of us want to leave any chance that Donald Trump will be elected. His original farce of a campaign has resonated so deeply with some our nations frustrated extremists, bigots, xenophobes and well you know the list goes on, that we must tamp that element down by making sure the "Orange Hell Beast" is never elected. Yes, I just did call him a name and I meant to. :)
Let's say it was Jeb or Marco or Cruz running on the Republican ticket. Basically anyone who isn't Trump.
Would Sanders have jumped ship and put his movement behind Stein since he did do so well in the primaries?
I think he endorsed Hillary because there's would be a much better chance of Trump winning if he split the Dem vote with independent. If the others were running against, I think he'd rather take a chance on winning, give the left the bird and not be truly concerned if the right won.
Politiks. I don't care who wins as long as it's not ____________....
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on July 12, 2016, 04:06:17 PM
Let's say it was Jeb or Marco or Cruz running on the Republican ticket. Basically anyone who isn't Trump.
Would Sanders have jumped ship and put his movement behind Stein since he did do so well in the primaries?
I think he endorsed Hillary because there's would be a much better chance of Trump winning if he split the Dem vote with independent. If the others were running against, I think he'd rather take a chance on winning, give the left the bird and not be truly concerned if the right won.
Politiks. I don't care who wins as long as it's not ____________....
Let me shed some insight into Bernies move here. He has in actuality not jumped ship. Under Dem Rules, unless he conceded the "nomination" to Clinton, he could have been barred from the National Convention. He will be at the convention. He has not shut down his campaign at this time. He may do as some of the GOP side do and simply "suspend" the campaign and see how Hillary does and if anything shakes out from the still ongoing investigations. None of what he did today precludes him running on another ticket or Independent. This is a top level game of chess that will not be over after the convention until Bernie chooses to "shut down" his campaign completely. He has not done that.
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on July 12, 2016, 03:58:54 PM
Quote from: stephendare on July 12, 2016, 03:35:55 PM
Quote from: fsquid on July 12, 2016, 03:29:40 PM
we'll see. I think Bernie's army stays home in droves though.
I don't think they will. Its a passionate bunch, and the possibility of a literal right wing would be dictatorship is a powerful motivator.
These kids are worried (passionately) about native american rights in Alaska. Do you honestly think that they are going to miss Trump's extremism on every issue that they care about?
Now that their attention isn't focused on the badness of Hillary Clinton's rather pedestrian evils, they will be able to see the forest for the trees.
More than half of them will indeed stay home and another sizable block of his supporters are moving behind "Jill Stein" a portion will vote as will I for Hillary, not because they support her but because none of us want to leave any chance that Donald Trump will be elected. His original farce of a campaign has resonated so deeply with some our nations frustrated extremists, bigots, xenophobes and well you know the list goes on, that we must tamp that element down by making sure the "Orange Hell Beast" is never elected. Yes, I just did call him a name and I meant to. :)
I agree, the ones that were regular voters before this cycle will vote for either Hilary or Stein. I don't agree with the notion some have that they will go to Trump at all.
Hmmm, just listened to the speech and it certainly does seem to be that Bernie has accepted that Hillary Clinton is the democratic nominee. Why do I think that? Mostly because he flat out said it. Not sure how anyone else could think otherwise and if he does try something else at the convention, wouldn't that make him a liar as well?
As to whether Bernie supporters end up voting for Hillary, well, hard to say. Those of us fearing what would happen to us if it was the Moron Called Trump and a Republican Majority need to be hoping they do.
Quote from: fsquid on July 12, 2016, 04:51:46 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on July 12, 2016, 03:58:54 PM
Quote from: stephendare on July 12, 2016, 03:35:55 PM
Quote from: fsquid on July 12, 2016, 03:29:40 PM
we'll see. I think Bernie's army stays home in droves though.
I don't think they will. Its a passionate bunch, and the possibility of a literal right wing would be dictatorship is a powerful motivator.
These kids are worried (passionately) about native american rights in Alaska. Do you honestly think that they are going to miss Trump's extremism on every issue that they care about?
Now that their attention isn't focused on the badness of Hillary Clinton's rather pedestrian evils, they will be able to see the forest for the trees.
More than half of them will indeed stay home and another sizable block of his supporters are moving behind "Jill Stein" a portion will vote as will I for Hillary, not because they support her but because none of us want to leave any chance that Donald Trump will be elected. His original farce of a campaign has resonated so deeply with some our nations frustrated extremists, bigots, xenophobes and well you know the list goes on, that we must tamp that element down by making sure the "Orange Hell Beast" is never elected. Yes, I just did call him a name and I meant to. :)
I agree, the ones that were regular voters before this cycle will vote for either Hilary or Stein. I don't agree with the notion some have that they will go to Trump at all.
They won't vote Trump. That was frustration talking.
This is why I feel the way I do about Hillary. All the GOP does is attack her and quite frankly I'm sick of it.....
By the way I think Bernie Sanders is fantastic and always have. I have been listening to him on Progressive radio for a long time and was wondering why he didn't run for President.
But that doesn't mean I didn't like Hillary.
The plain truth is Bernie would have been slaughtered by the right. If Hillary had been behind during the nomination process they would have turned their slimy rhetoric toward him. I'm sure most everyone has heard the accusation of Communism being thrown his way. It would have been worse.
My biggest fear for his run was the moderates may have been afraid of him and who knows how that would have effected the race.
But finally I have in all my years NEVER seen any associated with politics attacked as much as the Clintons and particularly Hillary.
The Benghazi attacks failed, the email attacks failed now the foundation.
They need to move on.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/12/politics/marsha-blackburn-letter-house-republicans-clinton-foundation/index.html
Quote from: avonjax on July 12, 2016, 06:33:59 PM
This is why I feel the way I do about Hillary. All the GOP does is attack her and quite frankly I'm sick of it.....
By the way I think Bernie Sanders is fantastic and always have. I have been listening to him on Progressive radio for a long time and was wondering why he didn't run for President.
But that doesn't mean I didn't like Hillary.
The plain truth is Bernie would have been slaughtered by the right. If Hillary had been behind during the nomination process they would have turned their slimy rhetoric toward him. I'm sure most everyone has heard the accusation of Communism being thrown his way. It would have been worse.
My biggest fear for his run was the moderates may have been afraid of him and who knows how that would have effected the race.
But finally I have in all my years NEVER seen any associated with politics attacked as much as the Clintons and particularly Hillary.
The Benghazi attacks failed, the email attacks failed now the foundation.
They need to move on.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/12/politics/marsha-blackburn-letter-house-republicans-clinton-foundation/index.html
Well buckle up kiddo. The GOP and Trump have just previewed some scathing campaign video attacks. This will be a fight of slander like none seen before. By the way a Reuters poll yesterday had Sanders pulling ahead of both Clinton and Trump.The point being there is plenty of strength behind him. :) We will need to see what goes down at the GOP convention next week to know what direction they will take and whether or not Hillary comes under attack from just Trump or Trump along with an alternate GOP nominee if he is knocked of the nomination pedestal next week.
Quote from: fsquid on July 12, 2016, 04:51:46 PM
I don't agree with the notion some have that they will go to Trump at all.
Yeah, that's just wishful thinking on some Repubs part.