Snyder is absolutely key to the continued redevelopment of Hemming Park.
Place HAS to be a bar or bar/restaurant, with outside seating either adjacent to or inside the park.
Get that stage built in Hemming (which sounds like its going to be more complicated than originally thought), and you're getting closer to a destination venue.
QuoteCity offering Snyder Memorial, Brewster Hospital for sale or lease
Two of Downtown's historic buildings will be offered for sale or lease by the Downtown Investment Authority.
Requests for Proposals are being drafted for Snyder Memorial, the former Methodist Church at Laura and Monroe streets, and for Brewster Hospital at 843 W. Monroe St. in LaVilla, the hospital for African-Americans that opened in 1901.
Both buildings are owned by the city and have been vacant for years.
The authority's Strategic Implementation Committee on Monday put the finishing touches on the requirements to be included in the requests, including a $2,500 application fee due along with any proposal submitted.
"That would let us look at people who are serious about following through," said Guy Parola, DIA redevelopment manager.
The fee would be refunded to unsuccessful applicants.
Since taking over the building in 1992 after the Methodist Church disbanded the congregation, the city has invested almost $2 million in maintenance and repairs to the structure.
Parola said ideally, Snyder should be sold to someone who would put in a restaurant or retail store to add to activity along Laura Street near Hemming Park.
"It should have an open-door element," he said, as opposed to selling the building for development as office space.
Full story: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=547625
How successful has doing RFP's and trying to control the who and what (more than zoning does) been for buildings like this? Doesn't it make more sense to simply sell at whatever the market will bare?
Interesting tidbit that the article glosses over:
A third property, without historic provenance, also will be offered for proposals.
It's a poorly maintained structure at 324 N. Broad St., near the Duval County Courthouse.
"It's vacant and deteriorating. There's nothing special about it," Parola said.
Frankly the city needs to unload these properties to the best offer it gets, from a CREDIBLE backer. They will all only deteriorate further under the city's ownership. If someone is willing to renovate/upfit to a suitable use, rent it to them for a $1 per year for 5 years.
^Agree in almost all instances, with the exception of Snyder.
It's too important strategically.
We need to sell that property to the right owner, even if it means sitting on it until the right owner comes along.
The "right" owner? I hear that about most of the city owned properties - what if the wrong owner ends up with it? As if the wrong owner does not already own it.....
Oh, the wrong owner already owns it :)
But this a beautiful, historically significant property directly fronting one of the most strategically important blocks in the entire city (Hemming Park). A building that we've pumped two million dollars into restoring, opening up to a park that we've spent nearly a million dollars in the last year trying to clean up and energize.
Under the right ownership, or more importantly, under the right use case, Snyder can greatly activate the surrounding sidewalks and continue momentum for Hemming. Used improperly, it becomes yet another dead zone on the perimeter of the park.
We need this:
(http://i.dawn.com/primary/2014/01/52e4fffe22565.jpg)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0d/0b/f6/0d0bf61908bdc39ec9de7a672b5880ef.jpg)
Not this:
(http://www.insidebusinessnyc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/IMG_1890.jpg)
COJ's ownership is likely a large part of why the building is still standing today, so there's that. At any rate, while the city (and authorities) could probably stand to sell off some property, there's no benefit to adopting a beggar mentality, where we just hand off every parcel to the first person who asks, regardless of what they're going to do with it. Snyder has potential beyond its monetary value to become a great asset to Downtown. And yes, that will take the "right owner".
The Snyder building is such a unique opportunity. Look at the amazing transformation of the Jaguar building into Cowford Chophouse. Snyder Church has the same potential. There are a number of community oriented developers in our city. It's time for more of them to step up and invest in restoring the fabric of our downtown.
QuoteSnyder is absolutely key to the continued redevelopment of Hemming Park.
Horse Hockey! During the BJP it was the rallying cry that the Main Library was going to Save Hemming Park, then the Candy Apple moved in and it was going to save Hemming Park, the new Federal Building, the use of the Ed Ball Building, blah, blah, blah. Don't get me started about the Laura Trio.
No building will save Hemming, so get off that high horse. Hemming has to survive and grow on its own, not because of a building on the corner. There is no parking for Snyder, so private law firm? Uh, yeah, sure thing buddy, you can park X blocks away and we will validate your parking.
The City would be better off donating the church to a non-profit and allow them to use it as a community center or partner with the folks in the old main library for events or with MOCA.
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 25, 2016, 01:10:33 AM
QuoteSnyder is absolutely key to the continued redevelopment of Hemming Park.
Horse Hockey! During the BJP it was the rallying cry that the Main Library was going to Save Hemming Park, then the Candy Apple moved in and it was going to save Hemming Park, the new Federal Building, the use of the Ed Ball Building, blah, blah, blah. Don't get me started about the Laura Trio.
No building will save Hemming, so get off that high horse. Hemming has to survive and grow on its own, not because of a building on the corner. There is no parking for Snyder, so private law firm? Uh, yeah, sure thing buddy, you can park X blocks away and we will validate your parking.
The City would be better off donating the church to a non-profit and allow them to use it as a community center or partner with the folks in the old main library for events or with MOCA.
Hmmm... So you brag about your home's close proximity to Orsay as if that's a desirable trait. You opposed Mellow Mushroom because you thought it would bring too many people to the Avondale Strip. You protest the opening of the Roost because you think that will bring down Oak street with it's activity and draw of people. However, you don't think that a bar or restaurant or other business could activate Hemming Park in the same way....?? That makes no sense.
Hemming Park is surrounded on 3 sides by government buildings that largely shut down at 5 pm. The other side is an office that rarely has evening activity. In spite of this, the park has managed to flourish in the past couple years due to active programming and special events. If the outer square was made up of businesses that engaged the street and spilled over into the park, the whole area would be completely transformed. Go check out City Market in Savannah and tell me that complimenting uses around a public space doesn't drive street traffic. Would your
I think what mtraininjax was saying is that Heming's problems can't be fixed by building adjacent uses - as has been demonstrated by still needing to be resuced after significant public investment on adjacent blocks (which were the wrong kinds of pedestrian generating uses in the first place). A bar isn't going to save it either. It needs lots of residential near by or a significant hotel.
I wonder though, when one goes to HP what does one perceive the problem to be, or does one even see a problem?
Personally I think seeing this place as a bar/small music venue would be awesome! Maybe host events during the day? The building itself and it being right next to Hemming could be great for all kinds of occasions.
Quote from: Kerry on May 25, 2016, 04:01:22 PM
I think what mtraininjax was saying is that Heming's problems can't be fixed by building adjacent uses
The principles espoused by the Project for Public Spaces pretty much say otherwise (note the Inner Square and Outer Square concepts)
http://www.pps.org/reference/squaresprinciples/
QuoteIt needs lots of residential near by or a significant hotel.
Which is one reason why the Laura Trio is so important. It does both and then some.
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 25, 2016, 04:50:23 PM
Quote from: Kerry on May 25, 2016, 04:01:22 PM
I think what mtraininjax was saying is that Heming's problems can't be fixed by building adjacent uses
The principles espoused by the Project for Public Spaces pretty much say otherwise (note the Inner Square and Outer Square concepts)
http://www.pps.org/reference/squaresprinciples/
Go through those 10 items and identify which ones HP is missing. I think it has all 10.....yet, still needs to be saved.
Quote from: Kerry on May 25, 2016, 05:24:56 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 25, 2016, 04:50:23 PM
Quote from: Kerry on May 25, 2016, 04:01:22 PM
I think what mtraininjax was saying is that Heming's problems can't be fixed by building adjacent uses
The principles espoused by the Project for Public Spaces pretty much say otherwise (note the Inner Square and Outer Square concepts)
http://www.pps.org/reference/squaresprinciples/
Go through those 10 items and identify which ones HP is missing. I think it has all 10.....yet, still needs to be saved.
1, 2, 4, 9, and 10 have only come in the last year or so. It's still lacking in 2 (attractions and destinations), 3 (amenities, there's still no bathroom) and 4 (flexibility). It still has no 5 (seasonal strategy), 7 (inner square and outer square) and 8 (reaching out like an octopus). Those are the very things that new additions like Snyder - and previous additions like the Library, MOCA Jax, Chamblin's and Sweet Pete's - can help with.
Don't get wrong, I am all about a thriving and prosperous urban core, but HP isn't just a puzzle piece away - and that assumption is what I was responding to.
Quote from: Kerry on May 25, 2016, 05:24:56 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 25, 2016, 04:50:23 PM
Quote from: Kerry on May 25, 2016, 04:01:22 PM
I think what mtraininjax was saying is that Heming's problems can't be fixed by building adjacent uses
The principles espoused by the Project for Public Spaces pretty much say otherwise (note the Inner Square and Outer Square concepts)
http://www.pps.org/reference/squaresprinciples/
Go through those 10 items and identify which ones HP is missing. I think it has all 10.....yet, still needs to be saved.
I disagree on the notion that Hemming actually meets PPS' 10 Principles for Successful Squares
1. Image and Identity? Hemming lacks image and identity. Most of Jax has probably never heard or seen of the place. Although its most popular days were in the mid-20th century when it was the retail center of the city, that era died and was demolished 30 years ago.
2. Attractions and Destinations? Hemming has come a long way with "Attractions and Destinations". The programming of Friends of Hemming are the reason for this. Nevertheless, there's still work to do.
3. Amenities making it comfortable for people to use? Ha. There are no public restrooms. Enough said.
4. Flexible Design? It has this. It's an old and dated design but it is flexible.
5. Seasonal Strategy? It had none before Friends of Hemming. Over the last year, there has been visible positive change.
6. Access? Yes it has this. It has always been easily accessible by foot. The problem is the rest of downtown isn't exactly lively.
7. Inner Square/Outer Square? I'll skip the Inner Square and address the Outer. The Outer Square is pretty bad. The three best things it has going for it are Subway, MOCAJax and a public library that poorly addresses the street and contains its own competing public space upstairs.
The remaining three blocks are former hotel/retail street level spaces, all now walled off for government offices. Outside of Sweet Pete's (which is a godsend recent addition to the area), the Outer Square is pretty dead on weekends and weekdays after 6pm. We have lots of work to do here.
8. Reaching out like an Octopus? The surrounding blocks are definitely hit or miss. Heading north, they lead into blank walls and FSCJ's iron fence. East, they head to surface parking lots. West, they head to a poorly designed courthouse and the bones of LaVilla. The walk and activity south is much better, but definitely not vibrant.
9. Central Role of Management? It had none before Friends of Hemming. With Friends, there's been definite improvement on the activity and quality of the park.
10. Diverse Funding Sources? Seems like there's some struggle here.
Quote from: Kerry on May 25, 2016, 06:33:55 PM
Don't get wrong, I am all about a thriving and prosperous urban core, but HP isn't just a puzzle piece away - and that assumption is what I was responding to.
I agree that HP isn't a puzzle piece away as well. Ultimately, there's only going to be so much one can do with the space, when most of the surrounding land uses are about as bad as can be for stimulating foot traffic on a consistent basis.
Quote from: Kerry on May 25, 2016, 04:01:22 PM
It needs lots of residential near by or a significant hotel.
A no-frills Skyway station connecting Brooklyn to Hemming would be a nice start too.
Just want to again point out that with all the activity happening along or just off of Laura Street - the Barnett, the Laura Street Trio, FSCJ, the new garage, Hotel Indigo, improvements to Hemming, new rooftop bars and restaurants, etc - I do not think there's a vacant property in the entire CBD with as much immediate potential as Snyder Memorial Church. I walk by it every day, and it's just screaming to be renovated and converted into a bar & live music venue. It's literally in the perfect location, on the corner with perhaps the most foot traffic anywhere downtown (foot traffic that is only going to increase in coming years as projects are completed), directly adjacent to Hemming Park, the Main Library, Chamblin's, City Hall, the Skyway, etc. It's one of the oldest standing buildings downtown (115 years old), and the exterior is just beautiful. The doors open up right to the street. Build out a nice interior like the examples above, fill it with live music and booze, open it up to/make it inviting from the sidewalk, and I see no universe where it isn't the most crowded post-work happy hour spot downtown, and a popular post-dinner spot for people coming from the Chophouse, or Bellwether, or Morton's, or wherever.
With so much development underway and proposed for Laura, this is the property that the city needs to put an RFP out on yesterday, or find a buyer for outright.
Quote from: KenFSU on January 18, 2018, 03:45:59 PM
Just want to again point out that with all the activity happening along or just off of Laura Street - the Barnett, the Laura Street Trio, FSCJ, the new garage, Hotel Indigo, improvements to Hemming, new rooftop bars and restaurants, etc - I do not think there's a vacant property in the entire CBD with as much immediate potential as Snyder Memorial Church. I walk by it every day, and it's just screaming to be renovated and converted into a bar & live music venue. It's literally in the perfect location, on the corner with perhaps the most foot traffic anywhere downtown (foot traffic that is only going to increase in coming years as projects are completed), directly adjacent to Hemming Park, the Main Library, Chamblin's, City Hall, the Skyway, etc. It's one of the oldest standing buildings downtown (115 years old), and the exterior is just beautiful. The doors open up right to the street. Build out a nice interior like the examples above, fill it with live music and booze, open it up to/make it inviting from the sidewalk, and I see no universe where it isn't the most crowded post-work happy hour spot downtown, and a popular post-dinner spot for people coming from the Chophouse, or Bellwether, or Morton's, or wherever.
With so much development underway and proposed for Laura, this is the property that the city needs to put an RFP out on yesterday, or find a buyer for outright.
This is the kind of development that I think a community-owned development cooperative could truly shine in, provided the right leadership and the ability to work with shareholders and banks for capital. A setting where you have an unused building in an area ripe for development, that really just needs someone to pick up the ball and run. I put an example and some thoughts about the questions behind making something like it work over in this thread:
https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,34476.msg477253/topicseen.html#new
Since this RFP is now 19 months old, are we to assume no one put in a bif for it?
^LOL. you are on fire today. It's almost like it's Jags-Pats weekend or something.
Quote from: vicupstate on January 19, 2018, 08:23:18 AM
Since this RFP is now 19 months old, are we to assume no one put in a bif for it?
I've reached out to multiple people in the last six months about the status of Snyder and the RFP, but I haven't been able to get a straight answer from anyone.
Such a shame this building can't be put to good use. It's absolutely beautiful inside, hopefully something eventually happens.
"I've reached out to multiple people in the last six months about the status of Snyder and the RFP, but I haven't been able to get a straight answer from anyone."
I hope you are not surprised. Did you get any answer at all from anyone?
My experience with the COJ Division of Real Estate has been awful. Would love for the Mayor and City Council to dissolve it and start fresh.
Restaurant/Bar/Music Venue would be awesome for the site.
I think once Indigo and the Trio are actually on their way to being finished, someone will scoop this up. There is a lot of area for outdoor seating on Monroe and some on Laura. It would be an excellent event venue for weddings, corporate events or even a small church to rent on Sunday morning. With the federal tax credits for preservation going away, the cost just went up considerably to restore the place. Hopefully retail along the corridor will take off and will make reuse inevitable.
There are so many great buildings like this DT and it is good to see some people with vision but also the resources to come in and make them into something great again. Hopefully this old church can be turned into another great spot for DT...I am not saying this next concept should be in this building but it could be a great fit DT in another renovated building or the Doro area and that concept is the Punch Bowl Social. A place that started in Colorado but has venues across the country and the closest to us would be Atl when it opens. They have great food, games and even bowling lanes. They do make new buildouts but from the looks of most locations it seems they like to go into DT and help revitalize buildings. Best things is it's made for adults and would fit well in the doro or elbow area.
Quote from: FlaBoy on January 23, 2018, 01:06:45 PM
Restaurant/Bar/Music Venue would be awesome for the site.
I think once Indigo and the Trio are actually on their way to being finished, someone will scoop this up. There is a lot of area for outdoor seating on Monroe and some on Laura. It would be an excellent event venue for weddings, corporate events or even a small church to rent on Sunday morning. With the federal tax credits for preservation going away, the cost just went up considerably to restore the place. Hopefully retail along the corridor will take off and will make reuse inevitable.
^I was thinking the same thing about how perfect outdoor seating on Monroe would be.
Snyder opens right up to Monroe, and there's quite a bit of space where you could add it.
Plus, it's almost immediately adjacent to Hemming Park.
Don't laugh, but how about a Starbucks in there? New concept with beer and wine..............
Last week, DIA said that a RFP was never actually finalized previously, and that a new RFP for the site will be going out around April.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on January 28, 2018, 08:16:55 AM
Last week, DIA said that a RFP was never actually finalized previously, and that a new RFP for the site will be going out around April.
Thanks so much for the info Bill.
I've got a good feeling about this new RFP.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on January 28, 2018, 08:16:55 AM
Last week, DIA said that a RFP was never actually finalized previously, and that a new RFP for the site will be going out around April.
That's both somewhat disappointing, and also good news.
How does this much time go by without finalizing the RFP? Why would the city just let a potentially revenue-generating property just
sit there, off the tax rolls?
I really hope they actually put some commitment into selling this place off this time, and getting something cool into the heart of downtown.
QuoteHow does this much time go by without finalizing the RFP? Why would the city just let a potentially revenue-generating property just sit there, off the tax rolls?
Quite common for Jacksonville actually. Both with city owned property and condemned properties that could be sold but aren't because of a huge backlog.