Metro Jacksonville

Once known as the "armpit of Florida," Jacksonville's long-held inferiority complex is extremely well documented. Past mayors have studied it. Major national newspapers have reported on it. Sportswriters have exploited it. And, at times over the last decade, you could literally feel it on the streets.

In the last couple of years, and particularly in the last 18 months or so, it genuinely feels (to me) like there's been a pretty significant shift in the way that we view our city.

Am I alone in feeling like Jacksonville has shaken off much of the inferiority complex and that people have begun to take genuine pride in the city?

Despite our problems, there seems to be a ton of confidence and optimism on the streets about the city and its future.

Jacksonville has sooooo much potential and yet nothing ever comes of it. As a Jacksonville Native, I've seen a lot of improvements in the city but there is so much more to do. There's no reason why Jacksonville isn't a TOP tourist/ banking/ FUN city. We have a river, beaches, and a lot of OPEN space! COME ON JACKSONVILLE!!! Jacksonville has to do BETTER!

Quote from: KenFSU on May 18, 2016, 12:25:01 PM
Despite our problems, there seems to be a ton of confidence and optimism on the streets about the city and its future.

I totally agree, but I think that the inferiority complex is very prevalent. Exhibit A, the recent thread announcing the restaurants; Jax supposedly 'screwed up' an opportunity to get better restaurants, and blah blah blah...Nevermind that chain restaurants like that are added in SJTC-like malls all over the country in other metros. I wouldn't expect a five star Gordon Ramsay restaurant, or a Jewish steakhouse within a mall setting.

IMO what started the inferiority complex in Jax was internal; Then that spreaded around the country. Just like the movie Deadpool taking a crack on us (spoiler alert). Saying (paraphrase) that we 'have a great TGIFridays', very funny....Then proceeding to say "What is a military unit doing in Jax?" Clearly dont know anything about Jacksonville...

Here's my inferiority thread a lil bit back. http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,25262.0.html

^^^Do you ever have an opinion for yourself, or are you just going to respond negatively (with no substance) to mine all of the time? Always offering ZERO to the conversation, stay consistent...

QuoteIn the last couple of years, and particularly in the last 18 months or so, it genuinely feels (to me) like there's been a pretty significant shift in the way that we view our city.

Can you provide some examples? 

Quote from: vicupstate on May 18, 2016, 01:05:32 PM

QuoteIn the last couple of years, and particularly in the last 18 months or so, it genuinely feels (to me) like there's been a pretty significant shift in the way that we view our city.

Can you provide some examples? 

First off, really interesting post Stephen^

Vic, sure I can think of a lot of examples, though obviously anecdotal.

I'm in digital marketing, which tends to attract a pretty young workforce, and I've seen a strong change in the last few years in how young professionals in particular talk about the city. Seven or eight years ago, they couldn't wait to get out. Now, I hear nearly everyone speak about Jacksonville as a cool city that they're happy to live in and they show off to their friends.

They love the night life, between the beaches, and Riverside, and the Elbow, and the Town Center. They love the breweries and passionately argue about which is the best in the city. They brag on the local restaurants - Taco Lu, M Shack, Burrito Gallery, Flying Iguana, Blacksheep, Moxie, etc. They love the Armada. Everyone is on hype level 11 for the Jags. They love their neighborhoods, particularly Brooklyn, the Beach, and Town Center.

Also, a lot of announcements - IKEA, Top Golf, Cowford Chophouse, Amazon, even Red Robin - that would have felt like impossible megaton acquisitions a few years back seem to be happening every couple of months, and people genuinely don't seem that shocked. Hell, even the amphitheater, which the city bungled for decades, seemed inevitable when the Jags floated the idea.

Just feels like, despite total ineptitude, Jacksonville has built some pretty incredible momentum that people are starting to feel more and more.

To me, it all seems like such a far cry from Mayor Peyton dancing at Club Paris and Wayne Weaver running the Jags into the ground.

I think the inferiority complex, in the sense of the attitude that we can't/don't/won't ever have nice things, is alive and well. I rate the inferiority complex and attendant fatalistic negativity as the worst thing about living here.

And yeah, a big part of it is the result of not valuing what we have, but it's also a cause of not valuing what we have. We don't value our cultural scene, so we say we don't have one and don't support what's there. We don't value our own history, so we believe it doesn't matter and bulldoze what's there. We don't value our environment (natural or urban), so we incentivize wrecking it.

I'd agree that there's been an attitude shift over the last several years; people are a lot more excited and invested in the city and the direction it's taking. To me, the greatest example has been the success of the "go local" movement here. People get genuinely excited about local things - restaurants, culture, events, teams, etc. - and more importantly, are willing to support them. It's a sea change from how things were when I was growing up.

Quoteit genuinely feels (to me) like there's been a pretty significant shift in the way that we view our city.

An inferiority complex comes from reports of how OTHERS see the city. Everyone I know who lives and plays and works in Jacksonville is happy to be here and thinks this place is a slice of heaven.....if they did not, they would have moved elsewhere to the true armpits of the world.

Jacksonville is not inferior to any city in all my travels. The River, the beaches, the restaurants, the neighborhoods, we have some of the best in the world. Do we have the #1 transit system in the world, nope, not by a long shot, but for MY NEEDS, it is fine. Good roads, good entertainment and a sports team I can be proud of, I don't need to root for the Dolphins or Falcons, I have my team, so if people are concerned about inferiority, hey, they can leave anytime they choose.

Wayne Weaver did not run the Jaguars into the ground. When Weaver owned the team, he built teams that went to the playoffs. So far, Shad Khan has built the world's largest scoreboards and turned the Stadium into a circus, so if you want to slam on Weaver for anything, make sure its all about bringing Football to Jacksonville and building teams that actually accomplished playoffs and playoff wins. The last winning Jaguar coach was Jack Del Rio, under Weaver. Money can't buy you success in football.

The inferiority complex came from the locals living here during the last half of the 1900's.  It had basis in fact too. The tolls, the pollution, the corruption, the dis-accredited schools.  The problem is as those problems were addressed and largely solved, the mindset of the locals, particularly the natives didn't.   

From my experience the NATIVES have the highest level of inferiority, not the people who moved in from other places. The natives don't appreciate the positives that are present, and still hold on to the past mindset. The fact that the city has been essentially leaderless since 2005 or so, doesn't help either.

For the life of me I don't understand why the area has not recovered from the recession better than it has.  In most major metros, it is a bad memory from the past, but most of JAX has yet to experience a recovery. 

Quote from: mtraininjax on May 20, 2016, 04:58:18 AM

Quoteit genuinely feels (to me) like there's been a pretty significant shift in the way that we view our city.

Jacksonville is not inferior to any city in all my travels. The River, the beaches, the restaurants, the neighborhoods, we have some of the best in the world.

This is not meant as an insult to the restaurants and restaurateurs of Jacksonville - but if you think Jax has some of the best restaurants in the world, you might need to travel more (or further afield).

QuoteThis is not meant as an insult to the restaurants and restaurateurs of Jacksonville - but if you think Jax has some of the best restaurants in the world, you might need to travel more (or further afield).

You must live under a rock.

Quote from: mtraininjax on May 20, 2016, 05:24:31 AM

QuoteThis is not meant as an insult to the restaurants and restaurateurs of Jacksonville - but if you think Jax has some of the best restaurants in the world, you might need to travel more (or further afield).

You must live under a rock.

The world is a really big place.

We deserve to have a complex..led by good ole boys since forever..biggots galore..low wages..racism rampant. .even our so called progressives lay down like a dog for conservatives that drag us down year by year ..handing out cash for football time after time even if we dont have it....better restaurants but we are still 40 years behind any other larger city in the south.

Quote from: mtraininjax on May 20, 2016, 04:58:18 AM
Wayne Weaver did not run the Jaguars into the ground. When Weaver owned the team, he built teams that went to the playoffs. So far, Shad Khan has built the world's largest scoreboards and turned the Stadium into a circus, so if you want to slam on Weaver for anything, make sure its all about bringing Football to Jacksonville and building teams that actually accomplished playoffs and playoff wins. The last winning Jaguar coach was Jack Del Rio, under Weaver. Money can't buy you success in football.

I agree, particularly that Weaver didn't drive the Jags in the ground. Weaver was instrumental in keeping the team here. Did Weaver made any mistakes within his tenure as owner? Of course, it's a business and mistakes are bound to happen.

People love to talk about free Winn Dixie tickets, and play psychic Monday morning QB with the Coughlin firing; IMO Weaver's biggest flaw was not backing the city within that 2008 financial crisis (which later hit other larger cities in NFL attendance) I understood that he needed to stay viable, but putting Jax on blast through a financial crisis wasn't the smartest thing in the world; That announcement should've stayed in house within the top brass IMO.

I never understood the whole Weaver vs Khan thing though, I love them both. IMO Khan is doing a great job here. Getting canned immediate success on the field very quickly is winning the battle; The big picture of team stability in this city, and building through draft is winning the war.

Quote from: I-10east on May 20, 2016, 08:05:51 AM

Quote from: Tacachale on May 19, 2016, 02:53:56 PM
We don't value our own history, so we believe it doesn't matter and bulldoze what's there.

I agree with alot that you said, but IMO that quote is very cliche and popular to say, but in actually hasn't been a significant factor in many years. No offense, but statements like that is the exact source of the inferiority complex IMO; That we constantly bulldoze everything. We love to act like other cities (not that I'm okay with it) wasn't tearing down historic buildings (like the Heard etc) in the 70s-80s, and we were the only one.   

You are absolutely right that JAX was not alone in doing so in the '70's and '80's. On a per capita basis it actually came through those decades better than many. The issue is those other places have stopped or at least dramatically slowed down that trend. JAX seems to have not only continued it but in some areas dramatically increased it.   And in my opinion it does so because the powers that be do not believe it is important, and because there is nothing 'special' about JAX's history in their minds. 

^^^IMO downtown (which is the focus for many) there hasn't been any significant demos in a while. Springfield, that could be questioned.

This article refers  to a couple of subjects in the forums lately......very interesting seeing it was written in 1976

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/tales-of-jacksonville-19760325?page=2

QuoteWe deserve to have a complex..led by good ole boys since forever..biggots galore..low wages..racism rampant. .even our so called progressives lay down like a dog for conservatives that drag us down year by year ..handing out cash for football time after time even if we dont have it....better restaurants but we are still 40 years behind any other larger city in the south.

Every city has this, they all have bigots, people who bash change, people who hate gays or lesbians, there will always be haters in the world and those who live under rocks around the world. There are fewer and fewer people living off the grid these days.

You need to go read the books by James Crooks about the history of Jacksonville. For far too long, it was an industrial town and Crooks identifies that the people who owned the industries deliberately worked to keep the locals ignorant and uneducated, because an educated thinking person is a dangerous one. Also remember that Florida would have have been inhabited without air conditioning, so that kept many people from here for a long time, we have been growing at a slower pace, but now with technologies and "restaurants" and "entertainment" Jacksonville appears to be turning a serious corner.

Medical is leading the way, 20% of the local GDP is all from medical locally. Mayo, MD Anderson, Baptist, St. Vincents, look at the changes around town, its like an arms race by the medical community with new buildings and new facilities and new treatment centers. With AC in hand, golf (if you can stand wasting 4 hours a day, some do...) and a great quality of life, Jacksonville is catching up to other cities.

It takes time, but Jacksonville is getting better.  Having lived in Atlanta, I can tell you that traffic is a great identifier with regard to prosperity!

Never forget our past, but embrace the future.

QuoteThe world is a really big place.

With the internet, global partners, and fabulous transportation, its really a lot smaller than when American Isolationism ran rampant.

Quote from: mtraininjax on May 21, 2016, 10:00:04 AM

QuoteThe world is a really big place.

With the internet, global partners, and fabulous transportation, its really a lot smaller than when American Isolationism ran rampant.

That's true. But even as the world shrinks (figuratively) there are still millions of restaurants.

Inferiority complex?? What inferiority complex? Y'all must not have heard...the Hoff used to live here. http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,26913.msg444726/topicseen.html#new

Often,the more growth,the more inferior previously existing place,infrastructure becomes.

So yes,Giant Inferiority Complex.

IMO often these semi-annual 'rally threads' from contributing editors which usually overly critique Jax; They are just emotional cauldrons of inferiority complex. They are usually very successful to, just like a preacher preaching to an agreeing congregation. I have no problem with focusing in on the problems of Jax, but I have yet to understand how the success of a football team, and other 'reaching issues' are prominent for serious discussion.

^^^You told me with certainty that Jax doesn't have an inferiority complex. Look at the poll numbers, they don't lie; Maybe all of those pollers should go to another forum too just because they don't agree with you.   

Quote from: I-10east on May 20, 2016, 08:34:42 AM

Quote from: mtraininjax on May 20, 2016, 04:58:18 AM
Wayne Weaver did not run the Jaguars into the ground. When Weaver owned the team, he built teams that went to the playoffs. So far, Shad Khan has built the world's largest scoreboards and turned the Stadium into a circus, so if you want to slam on Weaver for anything, make sure its all about bringing Football to Jacksonville and building teams that actually accomplished playoffs and playoff wins. The last winning Jaguar coach was Jack Del Rio, under Weaver. Money can't buy you success in football.

I agree, particularly that Weaver didn't drive the Jags in the ground. Weaver was instrumental in keeping the team here. Did Weaver made any mistakes within his tenure as owner? Of course, it's a business and mistakes are bound to happen.

People love to talk about free Winn Dixie tickets, and play psychic Monday morning QB with the Coughlin firing; IMO Weaver's biggest flaw was not backing the city within that 2008 financial crisis (which later hit other larger cities in NFL attendance) I understood that he needed to stay viable, but putting Jax on blast through a financial crisis wasn't the smartest thing in the world; That announcement should've stayed in house within the top brass IMO.

I never understood the whole Weaver vs Khan thing though, I love them both. IMO Khan is doing a great job here. Getting canned immediate success on the field very quickly is winning the battle; The big picture of team stability in this city, and building through draft is winning the war.

Should Jacksonville be eternally grateful to the Weavers for bringing the NFL to Jacksonville? Absolutely. Did Wayne Weaver oversee the most successful years in franchise history on the field? Sure did. Should we build a statue for the guy one day as a thank you for selling the team to someone committed to keeping the Jags in Jacksonville? Damn straight.

But I absolutely stand by the opinion that Weaver was driving the franchise into the ground during his final years as owner. I'm not talking about the 90s, or the Winn Dixie giveaways, or anything like that. I'm talking about 2008 through 2011. When the Jags raised ticket prices during a recession. When Weaver's personal loyalty to Gene Smith resulted in wasted drafts, cutesy picks, and a third round selection being used on a punter. When David Garrard was cut and Luke McCown was made starting QB three days before the season started. When Jack Del Rio was kept around two years too long (he had three winning seasons in 10 years, and an overall losing record as head coach of the Jags, btw). When we couldn't even sell naming rights to an NFL Stadium and it reverted back to Jacksonville Municipal Stadium. Where tarps covered a huge part of the stadium and "Jags to L.A." stories were a daily occurrence.

Instead of feeling like he had to earn ticket sales, Weaver existed in a world where Jacksonville residents should take what they were given without complaint and just consider themselves lucky to have a franchise.

He wasn't investing in free agents. He wasn't investing in or improving the gameday experience. He wasn't investing in marketing the team regionally to grow the fanbase. He wasn't investing in front office staff (the team didn't even have a President since the late 90s). He was just staying the course, operating on a shoestring budget, and deflecting blame for the poor health of the business.

Had he not sold the team, there's a good chance the Jags would no longer be financially sustainable in Jacksonville given the way things were going.

Shad Khan had a great quote, saying that as an NFL owner, "If you're standing still, you're falling behind."

Contrast Weaver's last few seasons with what Khan's done since buying the team.

Can't get free agents to come to Jacksonville? Weaver throws his hands in the air, Khan invests $20 million into new facilities for the players. Stadium is in the bottom third of NFL venues and is failing to generate the revenue necessary to be competitive. Weaver raises ticket prices to make up the difference, Khan hires the man behind Metlife Stadium as President to find long-term solutions. More people watching on TV than coming to the game? Weaver threatens blackouts, Khan adds party decks, swimming pools, and the world's largest scoreboards to make the game-day experience better than being at home. Tarps over tens of thousands of seats? Weaver shrugs his shoulders and lets Jacksonville take a beating in the media, Khan reduces the physical number of seats in the stadium and converts underperforming sections into money-makers. Jags keep bungling the draft? Weaver gives Gene Smith a contract extension, Khan brings in a GM who has unanimously won the last two or three drafts.

The list goes on, and on, and on. The London agreement. The amphitheater and practice fields. The talent acquisitions. The events for season ticket holders. Freshening up team branding. Expanding the promotional net. Securing long-term naming rights for Everbank. Ending the L.A. rumors.

Since Khan has taken over, he has treated the Jaguars like a top tier NFL franchise.

Love Weaver, but he was driving the local community away in droves during those last few years by running the team like a D-League affiliate of the National Football League. 

Firmly stand behind that opinion.

^ Yes.  This.

Quote from: jbyrd on May 20, 2016, 03:37:38 PM
This article refers  to a couple of subjects in the forums lately......very interesting seeing it was written in 1976

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/tales-of-jacksonville-19760325?page=2

This was a fascinating read, and explains quite a bit. 

Quote from: Houseboat Mike on May 24, 2016, 04:31:04 PM

Quote from: jbyrd on May 20, 2016, 03:37:38 PM
This article refers  to a couple of subjects in the forums lately......very interesting seeing it was written in 1976

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/tales-of-jacksonville-19760325?page=2

This was a fascinating read, and explains quite a bit. 

Agree, great share, thanks so much.

Didn't really know on which thread to put this, but Amazon is looking for a second North American HQ to equal its current HQ in Seattle. and is accepting seeking proposals for a $5B campus.  Should Jacksonville swing for the fences on this one?  It would be a longshot, no doubt, but "no shot" otherwise.

Of course they should.  It's being discussed on a parallel thread, under "Urban Construction Update." I e mailed Amazon, got a response, and also copied the RFP to the Mayor's office. What the hell else are  they doing if not trying to recruit these types of organizations to our fair City.

If you actually read the RFP we are a damn good fit for what they are looking for!

Pitching hard for the joint venture Auto plant to come to Cecil field would be a great idea too.