Metro Jacksonville

From 2013:

QuoteNo Naming Rights Deal For Jax Veterans Memorial Arena
By Kevin Meerschaert • Nov 20, 2013

Mayor Alvin Brown said today he will not pursue a naming rights deal for Jacksonville's Veterans Memorial Arena.

Alan Verlander, the city's executive director of sports and entertainment, floated the idea a few days ago as to a way to raise money to help pay for arena upkeep and maintenance.

Just as when the possibility was contemplated 10 years ago, the suggestion created an uproar in the veterans community.

On Wednesday, Brown made it clear he has no intention of changing the name of Veterans Arena.     
   
"There should be a process you set up, listen to the veterans listen to the civic community, the not for profit community go through a process," He said. "I'm very disappointed it happened in the first place."

Brown said he also won't even support any proposal to add a corporate name such as CSX-Veterans Memorial Arena.

I've been banging this drum for years, but with all due sensitivity to our wonderful veterans, I feel like we're leaving absolutely vital upkeep and renovation money on the table by not pursuing a deal for naming rights for our arena. Veteran's Memorial Arena drives a ton of revenue for a venue it's size (http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2010/08/02/daily16.html), lies in the footprint of an NFL stadium, and is poised for even more visibility and success with all the new development in the area.

It absolutely blows my mind that, in the financial position this city is in, we wouldn't at least explore the possibility. $8 million, 10 years sounds about right, and there's no reason we couldn't flirt with a million dollars a year if Omaha, Louisville, Manchester N.H., Wichita, and others can do it.

CSX. Fidelity. Winn Dixie.

Surely there would be some interest.

Every other city has figured this out, why are we still living in a universe where making a sound, standard, inevitable, purely economic decision is somehow an affront to the veteran community?

Naming rights? Money for who?
Didn't the city council just pass legislation that  gave all the naming rights revenue for an NFL Everbank stadium to the owner?
"       ".     ".       ".      ".     ".       ".          ".       ".    ".  ".     ".         ".       ".         ". Baseball Ground, Soccer,  Community First to the owner?

Does Putnam county know about this?

PS maybe MJ can reach out to the attorney's representing the owners to explain the naming rights deals.

I would be in favor as long as it was a local company. Even if the deal is for less money, I feel that it is critical for companies based in Jacksonville to be involved in the city and its public infrastructure.  As for the veterans in the name, why can it be " Company Name Veterans Memorial Arena?"

I have mixed feelings about this; This poll is very polarizing for me. Even as a veteran, part of me just wanna move into the 21st century and drop the whole 'veteran arena' thing; We already have the memorial wall in close proximity. The name 'Veterans Arena' or Veterans Coliseum' is SO old school.

Almost every single one of these large usually outdated arenas all across the country with 'Veterans' in the name were built in the 50s or 60s. The newest arena (outside of Jax) that I see with 'Veterans' in the name is Spokane Veterans Memorial Arena, which was built in '93. I also don't like these 'spilt' names to appease everybody like 'Bobby Bowden Field at Doak Campbell Stadium' or what could be 'Firehouse Subs Veterans Memorial Arena' for Jax. 

I'd sell out to the highest bidder. I don't care what the name would be. For as broke as we claim to be, we're quick to shoot down ways to add revenue.

As a veteran myself, I really don't see the relevance of "Veterans Memorial" being on an arena. We have an actual memorial for that. I'd rather see a good naming rights deal that keeps the dollars in-house for continuous upkeep of the area. And we really need to stop giving away the city's portion of the stadium naming rights back to the Jaguars. The team already gets their portion, the city needs to keep theirs.

In all honesty, I just always assumed the reason there was no deal already was due to a lack of interest.

But yes, we should absolutely be pursuing a deal. It makes no sense that the "field" for the Sharks has a naming rights deal but the arena itself doesn't. I find it unlikely that veterans would actually be THAT offended, given that there's still a rather prominent memorial there and that it never really made sense as a good way to honor veterans in the first place. Not to mention, with the city owning the arena it wouldn't have to give up the revenue generated from such a deal like it does with the Jags and Everbank Field. It really should be a no-brainer.

Your posts implies the Jags own Everbank Field. The city also owns Everbank Field. The naming rights money goes to the Jags is part of the lease agreement with the city.

Why not sell the naming rights and give a portion back to an organization that helps veterans? Something like Wounded Warrior, or another organization that would be less likely to spend it all on a junket to Breck.

Then the city gets some cash and the vets get more than just a symbolic gesture.

^Guys, thank you both for your service.

Really appreciate it, and it's one of the reasons that we all get to have nice things.

As far as naming rights go for Everbank Field, I'm with you on the frustration, but it really is more of a "Don't hate the player, hate the game," situation. The majority of NFL, NBA and NHL cities derive no revenue from stadium and arena naming rights. Doesn't make it right, but it's unfair to single the Jaguars, or Shad Khan out (plus, Weaver did it first). For the Jags specifically, we're talking $1 million a year in naming rights that the city has deferred to the Jags. Meanwhile, Khan has pumped over $100 million into Everbank out of pocket to help turn one of the NFL's mid-tier to bottom-tier stadiums into what will be one of the most unique venues in the country when the improvements are finished. I can totally live with that, especially if we want to keep the Jaguars in Jacksonville beyond the life of the lease.

JBT, I think that's a really great, win-win idea right there. 

If they sell the name, it should ONLY have that name and not have 'Veterans' in it.  Commercialism should not be mixed with a Memorial to Veterans. Do it all one way or all the other.  If the naming rights are sold, spend the money on a Memorial that is more than just a wall with names on it.   

As a veteran (USN) I actually think it would be cool if the city sought naming rights bids from defense contractors in Florida...

A local example?

"The  Northrop Grumman Veterans Memorial Arena"

Then push out a wall, add some seats and sell the city to the NBA! I know, I know...

Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena moved into the top 100 arenas in the world in terms of ticket sales last year.

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2017/01/25/jacksonville-veterans-memorial-arena-ranks-in-the.html

Over a half million people through the gates.

SELL THE DAMN NAMING RIGHTS.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 10, 2016, 09:03:38 PM
As a veteran (USN) I actually think it would be cool if the city sought naming rights bids from defense contractors in Florida...

A local example?

"The  Northrop Grumman Veterans Memorial Arena"

Then push out a wall, add some seats and sell the city to the NBA! I know, I know...

I love the NBA idea, I believe this city could support another major team. In the past we weren't ready but with all the growth and businesses coming in we could be ready now to at least throw a pitch to the NBA. A sponsor for the Arena would go a long way.

NBA not coming here unless there is an expansion

There are several NBA teams in the 16-17k capacity range... Our Arenas current capacity for basketball is just over 14k. I would think it wouldn't be too hard to add in an extra 2-3k seats in that huge dead wall behind one of the endzones. That would also put us in line with NHL size arenas. Then again I know nothing about engineering. haha

^We just failed to get a D-League team to Lakeland. If the NBA exapnds (they shouldn't, there's already too many teams), there's still several larger underserved markets out there that would be more suitable for the NBA.

Jacksonville is and always has been a football town more than anything. I do not see there being nearly enough demand for 43 home games.

Quote from: JaGoaT on January 26, 2017, 04:31:08 PM
NBA not coming here unless there is an expansion

Once the CBA is agreed upon they are going to expand. Seattle is the front runner for a return team, other cities high on the list are Baltimore, Louisville, Mexico City, Pittsburgh.

Quote from: thelakelander on January 26, 2017, 04:52:48 PM
^We just failed to get a D-League team to Lakeland. If the NBA exapnds (they shouldn't, there's already too many teams), there's still several larger underserved markets out there that would be more suitable for the NBA.

We missed the Dleague to Lakeland because JVMA is larger than almost all DLeague arenas, they want to sell out smaller arenas since it is minor league ball they don't want to make second and third decks covered in tarp. The league also went to Lakeland and not Jax because of proximity to Orl, Lakeland allows the Magic front office to drive down I4 and check out the prospects easier. 

I agree, the NBA won't come to Jax but it would survive here. Jax is changing quickly and the people here need to understand we can be more than just a one team town. There is enough business and people to support more than football. All you need is 17,000 seats to sell, not 72,000 like the NFl. Also, the Giants who are in the laughing stock ABA draw 5,000+ and have reached 8,000, if they can draw that then there is a market for basketball here and the stars of the NBA would bring people out. Wont happen but we can dream.

I'm not sure a team would survive at Jax's current size and one here would only eat into the Magic's market base.  Excluding New Orleans, the smallest markets (Oklahoma City and Memphis) are Jax's size but they don't have another major sports franchise to eat into their market share......or another small market NBA team two hours away.

An NBA team would be dead in the water in Jacksonville, and would probably drive the Jags out for good measure. We don't have the corporate presence or MSA size to make two big-five sports teams work now, or anytime in the next decade if we're being honest. Sure, an NBA team would sell out when the Cavs or Warriors were in town, but 16,000 on a Tuesday night against the Hornets? Forget about it. Jacksonville isn't huge, there's only so much discretionary income to go around, and if I'm charge, I'm protecting the investment we already have (an NFL team that we realistically fluked into) and not making moves to introduce major competition until our NFL team is deeply stable. Jacksonville's best bet, by a country mile, is to be take care of our existing team, complement it with top tier but affordable minor league teams, and resist the classic 904 trap of focusing on the shiny new thing while allowing the existing things to decay. Our reputation as a city has never been better, and our reputation as a sports town has taken massive strides forward after the LA relocation horrors, the last thing we need to do is take on the NBA before we're ready.

Didn't Jacksonville host NBA exhibition games the past few years? I know they were weeknight games and exhibitions, but I don't think they drew big crowds.  Not the way to impress anyone looking at expansion or relocation sites. 

After learning that Mayor Curry has the 10th most luxurious salary out of mayors nationwide, The city could use the money, I am sure Mousa got a raise in there too.

If we are having a pipe dream discussion, an MLB franchise would be much better for the city than an NBA team.

Quote from: JaxAvondale on January 27, 2017, 07:07:31 AM
If we are having a pipe dream discussion, an MLB franchise would be much better for the city than an NBA team.

Agreed, MLB could've been supported here for sure. It worked out great for Jax and we love the Jags but the city could've gone after baseball in the 90s before TB was awarded a team (they have zero support) and nobody would've been mad about it im sure. However they are not expanding anytime soon, and Florida definitely cant support a third baseball team.

Basketball is different, they are about to expand and the game is fast paced, in and out in 2 - 2 1/2 hours max plus all you need is 17,000 to 18,000 seats not 30,000 like baseball. like you said, pipe dream stuff but this city could afford to dream big, so many people here seem to be minor league dreamers with the exception of a few. We are the "Bold City" so the slogan says, maybe we should take that to heart and make bold moves. Anyways, not the thread to discuss Pipe Dreams, my apologies for the off topic rant.

Quote from: JaxVision on January 27, 2017, 10:42:35 AM

Quote from: JaxAvondale on January 27, 2017, 07:07:31 AM
If we are having a pipe dream discussion, an MLB franchise would be much better for the city than an NBA team.

Agreed, MLB could've been supported here for sure. It worked out great for Jax and we love the Jags but the city could've gone after baseball in the 90s before TB was awarded a team (they have zero support) and nobody would've been mad about it im sure. However they are not expanding anytime soon, and Florida definitely cant support a third baseball team.

Basketball is different, they are about to expand and the game is fast paced, in and out in 2 - 2 1/2 hours max plus all you need is 17,000 to 18,000 seats not 30,000 like baseball. like you said, pipe dream stuff but this city could afford to dream big, so many people here seem to be minor league dreamers with the exception of a few. We are the "Bold City" so the slogan says, maybe we should take that to heart and make bold moves. Anyways, not the thread to discuss Pipe Dreams, my apologies for the off topic rant.

Nothing to apologize for, off-topic rants often turn into the best discussions :)

Totally agree with you on the MLB. I could think of nothing better than major league baseball in Jacksonville, in a beautiful riverfront park, but realistically it would probably be the hardest sport to support.

For the sake of a more informed conversation, I just pulled the actual numbers for the big-five sports league.

Here's what 2016 averages look like across the board in terms of attendance, ticket prices, and overall cost of going to a game.

(https://snag.gy/TorJ8R.jpg)

With these numbers in mind, we can calculate what kind of annual local financial obligation is necessary to support a franchise in one of the big five leagues.

Here are what those numbers look like.

(https://snag.gy/Q6vCpZ.jpg)

For context, here are what actual 2016 Jacksonville Jaguars metrics look like, which amount to roughly 19% below league average.

(https://snag.gy/cMbY3a.jpg)

Finally, the metric that best ties the local obligation necessary for each league together is probably cost per capita.

In other words, for a professional sports franchise to be successful in Jacksonville (CSA size = 1,573,606), how many tickets does each citizen have to purchase, on average, each year, and how much must each citizen, on average, spend:

(https://snag.gy/6Zn5cF.jpg)

Based on these numbers, we see that the average Jacksonville citizen is spending $40 a year at Jaguars games, and roughly one out of every three locals is buying a ticket, or has a ticket bought for them, each season. For an NBA team to do well in Jacksonville, the numbers would be closer to $60 per person, with one out of every two people in the city buying a ticket at some point each year. With the Jaguars already in the city, and already commanding $63,000,000 in discretionary income, I don't see a universe where Jacksonville can take on another $90,000,000 in obligation for an NBA team without cannibalizing and potentially killing both franchises.

At a relatively modest $24 million a year, MLS is clearly the smartest play for Jacksonville in the next decade. If I'm in charge, I'm making the necessary steps in that direction with an eye on the Jaguars stadium lease expiring in 2029. Best case scenario, the Jaguars stay in the city long-term and the city grows enough in the coming decade that both teams can successfully coexist. But if the Jaguars leave, you have sustainable a major league franchise queued up to take their place. And if the NFL remains and MLS doesn't pan out, the numbers seem to suggest that the NHL would be a much safer long-term play than the NBA.

Quote from: thelakelander on May 10, 2016, 08:49:53 AM
I'd sell out to the highest bidder. I don't care what the name would be. For as broke as we claim to be, we're quick to shoot down ways to add revenue.

Unity Arena!
Visit Jacksonville!

Quote from: KenFSU on January 27, 2017, 12:49:02 PM
For the sake of a more informed conversation, I just pulled the actual numbers for the big-five sports league.

Here's what 2016 averages look like across the board in terms of attendance, ticket prices, and overall cost of going to a game.

(https://snag.gy/TorJ8R.jpg)

With these numbers in mind, we can calculate what kind of annual local financial obligation is necessary to support a franchise in one of the big five leagues.

Here are what those numbers look like.

(https://snag.gy/Q6vCpZ.jpg)

For context, here are what actual 2016 Jacksonville Jaguars metrics look like, which amount to roughly 19% below league average.

(https://snag.gy/cMbY3a.jpg)

Finally, the metric that best ties the local obligation necessary for each league together is probably cost per capita.

In other words, for a professional sports franchise to be successful in Jacksonville (CSA size = 1,573,606), how many tickets does each citizen have to purchase, on average, each year, and how much must each citizen, on average, spend:

(https://snag.gy/6Zn5cF.jpg)

Based on these numbers, we see that the average Jacksonville citizen is spending $40 a year at Jaguars games, and roughly one out of every three locals is buying a ticket, or has a ticket bought for them, each season. For an NBA team to do well in Jacksonville, the numbers would be closer to $60 per person, with one out of every two people in the city buying a ticket at some point each year. With the Jaguars already in the city, and already commanding $63,000,000 in discretionary income, I don't see a universe where Jacksonville can take on another $90,000,000 in obligation for an NBA team without cannibalizing and potentially killing both franchises.

At a relatively modest $24 million a year, MLS is clearly the smartest play for Jacksonville in the next decade. If I'm in charge, I'm making the necessary steps in that direction with an eye on the Jaguars stadium lease expiring in 2029. Best case scenario, the Jaguars stay in the city long-term and the city grows enough in the coming decade that both teams can successfully coexist. But if the Jaguars leave, you have sustainable a major league franchise queued up to take their place. And if the NFL remains and MLS doesn't pan out, the numbers seem to suggest that the NHL would be a much safer long-term play than the NBA.

There's also this report from two years ago on cities' total personal income and how that comes down on sports. Essentially, there's not enough money in Jax to support an NBA (or MLB or NHL) team on top of the Jags. Even without the Jags, we'd never be able to support a MLB team, either in the money, or in the number of people who'd have to go to the games for it to be profitable. However, so far as personal income goes at least, we'd be well positioned for a MLS team along with the Jags.

http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2015/04/09/sportmain.html

On the other hand, MLS is getting more and more expensive and there are a number of bigger cities who'd probably be a better or more proven fit (more cities than the number of expansion slots that'll be coming along anytime soon). We'd be easily the smallest MLS market.

Since we've entered this era of madness, why not farm out the name of the whole damn city to the highest bidder in 5 year increments? I can see it now, we live in 'Everbank, FL', or 'CSX, FL', or 'Budweiser', or 'Coca-Cola'... Just think of the revenue and the new toys we could buy!

Quote from: Ocklawaha on February 06, 2017, 11:03:14 AM
Since we've entered this era of madness, why not farm out the name of the whole damn city to the highest bidder in 5 year increments? I can see it now, we live in 'Everbank, FL', or 'CSX, FL', or 'Budweiser', or 'Coca-Cola'... Just think of the revenue and the new toys we could buy!

That will totally happen at some point. If not to Jax, then to some other city. It probably already has happened - I just don't know how to Google at that level.

I have a good idea. Like Federal Express changing name to FedEx, Jacksonville should become JAX. Most people refer us to that today.

Quote from: jaxjags on February 06, 2017, 11:28:22 AM
I have a good idea. Like Federal Express changing name to FedEx, Jacksonville should become JAX. Most people refer us to that today.

Yeah, but where's the money? Maybe get Kellogg's to sponsor us and become Apple Jax.

Quote from: Adam White on February 06, 2017, 11:07:03 AM

Quote from: Ocklawaha on February 06, 2017, 11:03:14 AM
Since we've entered this era of madness, why not farm out the name of the whole damn city to the highest bidder in 5 year increments? I can see it now, we live in 'Everbank, FL', or 'CSX, FL', or 'Budweiser', or 'Coca-Cola'... Just think of the revenue and the new toys we could buy!

That will totally happen at some point. If not to Jax, then to some other city. It probably already has happened - I just don't know how to Google at that level.

How about "Dish, Texas"?  :D

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/22/us/texas-town-called-dish-has-an-identity-problem.html

Quote from: TimmyB on February 06, 2017, 11:49:25 AM

Quote from: Adam White on February 06, 2017, 11:07:03 AM

Quote from: Ocklawaha on February 06, 2017, 11:03:14 AM
Since we've entered this era of madness, why not farm out the name of the whole damn city to the highest bidder in 5 year increments? I can see it now, we live in 'Everbank, FL', or 'CSX, FL', or 'Budweiser', or 'Coca-Cola'... Just think of the revenue and the new toys we could buy!

That will totally happen at some point. If not to Jax, then to some other city. It probably already has happened - I just don't know how to Google at that level.

How about "Dish, Texas"?  :D

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/22/us/texas-town-called-dish-has-an-identity-problem.html

There you go!

At this point, I'd probably change my name to Apple 15-inch MacBook Pro if I got a new laptop out of it.

Quote from: jaxjags on February 06, 2017, 11:28:22 AM
I have a good idea. Like Federal Express changing name to FedEx, Jacksonville should become JAX. Most people refer us to that today.

Though I wouldn't go as far as changing the name of the city, I do love the "Jax" nickname, and it makes me really happy to see it embraced.

Love driving into downtown and seeing this:

(http://www.myjaxchamber.com/images/ChamberoftheYear_JagsChamber_2015_med.jpg)

We are in the age of being politically correct so it wouldnt surprise me if in the future there's a petition to change Jacksonvilles name due to it being named after Andrew Jackson

Quote from: JaGoaT on February 06, 2017, 02:34:34 PM
We are in the age of being politically correct so it wouldnt surprise me if in the future there's a petition to change Jacksonvilles name due to it being named after Andrew Jackson

Cool story, bro.

Quote from: KenFSU on February 06, 2017, 01:56:45 PM

Quote from: jaxjags on February 06, 2017, 11:28:22 AM
I have a good idea. Like Federal Express changing name to FedEx, Jacksonville should become JAX. Most people refer us to that today.

Though I wouldn't go as far as changing the name of the city, I do love the "Jax" nickname, and it makes me really happy to see it embraced.

Love driving into downtown and seeing this:

Regionally, people get it, but definitely not nationally!  When we refer to the fact that we are moving to the Jax area, our friends hear "Jack's" and wonder who this guy is!!!  Then, it gets worse.  When we tell them we mean "Jacksonville", they literally pause and question us as to what state that is in!  I kid you not, and I'm not talking about uneducated people, here.  When people think of Florida, they think Orlando, Miami, the Keys, etc.  Probably why we love Jax so much, as it's not inundated by tons of tourists.  (Double-edged sword, I know. :) )

Quote from: Adam White on February 06, 2017, 01:48:49 PM

Quote from: TimmyB on February 06, 2017, 11:49:25 AM

Quote from: Adam White on February 06, 2017, 11:07:03 AM

Quote from: Ocklawaha on February 06, 2017, 11:03:14 AM
Since we've entered this era of madness, why not farm out the name of the whole damn city to the highest bidder in 5 year increments? I can see it now, we live in 'Everbank, FL', or 'CSX, FL', or 'Budweiser', or 'Coca-Cola'... Just think of the revenue and the new toys we could buy!

That will totally happen at some point. If not to Jax, then to some other city. It probably already has happened - I just don't know how to Google at that level.

How about "Dish, Texas"?  :D

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/22/us/texas-town-called-dish-has-an-identity-problem.html

There you go!

At this point, I'd probably change my name to Apple 15-inch MacBook Pro if I got a new laptop out of it.

"Oh, dear God, we don't need your kind in Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge Hills!"  :D