Coming Soon to DT Jax: Lofts at LaVilla
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4845042112_Qk3PGfs-L.jpg)
Jacksonville-based Vestcor Companies proposes to build a $22 million, 120-unit affordable housing development at Bay and Lee Streets.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2016-apr-coming-soon-to-dt-jax-lofts-at-lavilla (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2016-apr-coming-soon-to-dt-jax-lofts-at-lavilla)
Sounds pretty expensive for 20 units. I'm guessing that's a typo.
Typo. It should be 120. Fixing it now.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 19, 2016, 09:10:19 AM
Typo. It should be 120. Fixing it now.
That still seems pretty pricey. I don't mind the lack of street level retail, because it would struggle for the first few years at least. The aesthetics aren't my favorite, but they will tie in with the Brooklyn buildings.
I know Vestcor didn't do great with their retail in 11E and The Carling, but I don't love not having anything. I also don't love the superblock development, although the blocks to the north and south already do this (although to the south of the Federal Reserve you have a rail anyway. Since it looks like they are closing a street now, could they just move the street to the east end of the development, so if something comes on the parcel to the east it doesn't create a ridiculous block?
On that topic, I'm not sure I get how that will look at the end.
It appears the street is moved slightly east:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4845042104_MnvnRRf-L.jpg)
Is that actually a street? They list it as a service drive on rendering 18. Is it covered by the building or clear to the sky?
To that point though, if it's uncovered perhaps they change that to make it a legit street with proper sidewalks, etc and we go from there.
Quote from: Steve on April 19, 2016, 10:50:26 AM
To that point though, if it's uncovered perhaps they change that to make it a legit street with proper sidewalks, etc and we go from there.
I'd make the assumption that whatever TCEA money they are required to contribute would be credited the towards landscaping, sidewalks, street reconfiguration on this project.
You won't hear me say this often, but I'm 100% ok with no street level retail on this project. There are lots of ways you could configure pedestrian-oriented streetscapes and retail opportunities if future development happens in this area over the next 10-15 years. Forcing this developer to do so surrounded by miles of empty lots, simply isn't realistic.
I'm a big fan of this project. Vestcor is taking on a BIG risk.
Quote from: fieldafm on April 19, 2016, 11:42:22 AM
Quote from: Steve on April 19, 2016, 10:50:26 AM
To that point though, if it's uncovered perhaps they change that to make it a legit street with proper sidewalks, etc and we go from there.
I'd make the assumption that whatever TCEA money they are required to contribute would be credited the towards landscaping, sidewalks, street reconfiguration on this project.
You won't hear me say this often, but I'm 100% ok with no street level retail on this project. There are lots of ways you could configure pedestrian-oriented streetscapes and retail opportunities if future development happens in this area over the next 10-15 years. Forcing this developer to do so surrounded by miles of empty lots, simply isn't realistic.
I'm a big fan of this project. Vestcor is taking on a BIG risk.
Even though it is right by the convention center? Wouldn't you want to set the foundation for a corridor of retail on Water St.?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/LaVilla-Lofts/i-gp6QFvL/0/X2/20160421DDRB_Meeting%20Packetfinal_Page_127-X2.jpg)
Judging by the trees on both sides of the entrance to the service drive, it seems like it will be uncovered, however it also looks like the entrance may be gated (if that's what those dark lines are halfway across each side's entrance).
I can't imagine the current street is used often (except when the empty lots are used for parking), so it doesn't seem like a huge loss to me. There's an intersection just a few hundred feet away if you're going west.
Quote from: hiddentrack on April 19, 2016, 12:01:43 PMI can't imagine the current street is used often (except when the empty lots are used for parking), so it doesn't seem like a huge loss to me. There's an intersection just a few hundred feet away if you're going west.
Of course it isn't used often - there are no buildings there that necessitate its use.
My complaint is more about pedestrians than cars. Cars can go down to Broad (Remember, Jefferson is one way South), make a left on Broad, make a left on Bay at that ridiculous intersection there, go through Jefferson and come back around. A headache, but at least it's 72 degrees and dry inside your car.
Obviously, if nothing is built people will walk through the grass. I'm assuming that something gets built eventually. A pedestrian obviously can walk up Jefferson and come back around, but superblocks aren't great for people walking. I'm hoping that we can just make that a regular street, with sidewalks and everything, and call it a day.
Quote from: hiddentrack on April 19, 2016, 12:01:43 PM
Judging by the trees on both sides of the entrance to the service drive, it seems like it will be uncovered, however it also looks like the entrance may be gated (if that's what those dark lines are halfway across each side's entrance).
Those dark lines halfway across each side's entrance are painted stop bars.
Other than the road questions, I have zero problems with this. That area needs all the help it can get.
I would rather we get the ball rolling again on residential development in the northbank core than waiting for longer for projects that are perfect. Hopefully this inspires more development, for which we can insist on ground floor retail.
^There's a flip side to that, and that is Berkman Plaza which has an awful site plan. While I don't think this is anywhere near as bad as that, I think the DDRB needs to hold to the spirit of the standards (not always the letter).
Quote from: Steve on April 19, 2016, 12:20:07 PM
Quote from: hiddentrack on April 19, 2016, 12:01:43 PMI can't imagine the current street is used often (except when the empty lots are used for parking), so it doesn't seem like a huge loss to me. There's an intersection just a few hundred feet away if you're going west.
Of course it isn't used often - there are no buildings there that necessitate its use.
My complaint is more about pedestrians than cars. Cars can go down to Broad (Remember, Jefferson is one way South), make a left on Broad, make a left on Bay at that ridiculous intersection there, go through Jefferson and come back around. A headache, but at least it's 72 degrees and dry inside your car.
Obviously, if nothing is built people will walk through the grass. I'm assuming that something gets built eventually. A pedestrian obviously can walk up Jefferson and come back around, but superblocks aren't great for people walking. I'm hoping that we can just make that a regular street, with sidewalks and everything, and call it a day.
Good point. There's no reason they couldn't put access to the parking garage along a new side street instead of Water and W Bay. If a regular street can't be done, I don't see any reason a sidewalk couldn't be added alongside the eastern edge of the site as part of this project. That sidewalk could eventually become a dedicated pedestrian walkway or plaza in front of retail the next developer adds as things fill in in the direction of downtown. But then we'd be depending on that next developer to add retail or public space they might not be interested in doing either...
Quote from: Gambit80 on April 19, 2016, 12:28:38 PM
Quote from: hiddentrack on April 19, 2016, 12:01:43 PM
Judging by the trees on both sides of the entrance to the service drive, it seems like it will be uncovered, however it also looks like the entrance may be gated (if that's what those dark lines are halfway across each side's entrance).
Those dark lines halfway across each side's entrance are painted stop bars.
Ah, that makes sense. I'd never noticed them in other presentations and assumed they must be something else. Thanks!
QuoteThat sidewalk could eventually become a dedicated pedestrian walkway or plaza in front of retail the next developer adds as things fill in in the direction of downtown. But then we'd be depending on that next developer to add retail or public space they might not be interested in doing either...
If residential projects completely line up from the Skyway Station to the Courthouse parking garage (which would mean roughly 8 more multifamily buildings go vertical in that stretch of land), then you wouldn't need to 'force' retail. The developers would be clamoring for it as you'd have about 3,000 units within a compact, 4 block, urban area.. assuming you probably top out at 5-6 stories per building. At that point, the market would pretty much demand that you have somewhere to eat for the thousands of residents that would be paying good money to live there. As of now, you have 120 units of affordable housing (not exactly the demographic with the kind of spending power that retailers clamor for) being proposed on what amounts to a landscape similar to what Neil Armstrong saw when he stepped out of the Eagle. :) In that context, I think its perfectly ok to make some realistic accommodations.
Quote from: hiddentrack on April 19, 2016, 01:34:58 PM
Quote from: Steve on April 19, 2016, 12:20:07 PM
Quote from: hiddentrack on April 19, 2016, 12:01:43 PMI can't imagine the current street is used often (except when the empty lots are used for parking), so it doesn't seem like a huge loss to me. There's an intersection just a few hundred feet away if you're going west.
Of course it isn't used often - there are no buildings there that necessitate its use.
My complaint is more about pedestrians than cars. Cars can go down to Broad (Remember, Jefferson is one way South), make a left on Broad, make a left on Bay at that ridiculous intersection there, go through Jefferson and come back around. A headache, but at least it's 72 degrees and dry inside your car.
Obviously, if nothing is built people will walk through the grass. I'm assuming that something gets built eventually. A pedestrian obviously can walk up Jefferson and come back around, but superblocks aren't great for people walking. I'm hoping that we can just make that a regular street, with sidewalks and everything, and call it a day.
Good point. There's no reason they couldn't put access to the parking garage along a new side street instead of Water and W Bay. If a regular street can't be done, I don't see any reason a sidewalk couldn't be added alongside the eastern edge of the site as part of this project. That sidewalk could eventually become a dedicated pedestrian walkway or plaza in front of retail the next developer adds as things fill in in the direction of downtown. But then we'd be depending on that next developer to add retail or public space they might not be interested in doing either...
We have a public space across the street in the form of the entrance to the old terminal. There's green space, a fountain and lots of concrete. Of course, it's underutilized but there's no reason it can't one day be as vibrant and successful as the entrance to Denver's Union Station.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-1730-p1030510.JPG)
Jacksonville Terminal
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3466435429_HQjSbL3-M.jpg)
Denver Union Station
Same goes for retail. Assuming this JRTC thing finally comes on line. It should be designed to include some centralized retail/dining spaces that serve both transit users and future area residents/workers. Additional retail opportunities will rise as the area's density increases.
Count me as opposed to creating another super-block as well. Street are the only public space we have and we can't keep closing them off. Plus, one of the JRTA proposals already calls for making Stuart one-way. Not only do we need to stop closing roads and making more one-way streets, we need to be restoring the 2-way grid. I hear all this talk with JTA and the City saying how they want to revitalize downtown: if that is true then they need to stop the non-sense that contributed to the problem in the first place.
Quote from: Kerry on April 19, 2016, 05:40:08 PM
Count me as opposed to creating another super-block as well. Street are the only public space we have and we can't keep closing them off. Plus, one of the JRTA proposals already calls for making Stuart one-way. Not only do we need to stop closing roads and making more one-way streets, we need to be restoring the 2-way grid. I hear all this talk with JTA and the City saying how they want to revitalize downtown: if that is true then they need to stop the non-sense that contributed to the problem in the first place.
Could not agree more. Getting the streets right is so key to everything. I despise the fact that the Brooklyn apartments on Park St. closed off that cross street (Dora?) for gated parking. They could have put the gates on the side of the road and kept it open.
^No Dispute. That's why the solution to this (to me) is easy. If they're taking up an existing road, have them convert that "service court" into a regular two-way road with sidewalks. I'm fine with that.
Superblocks are one thing being in a vehicle, but even worse as a pedestrian.
Quote from: Kay on April 19, 2016, 10:17:38 PM
Could not agree more. Getting the streets right is so key to everything. I despise the fact that the Brooklyn apartments on Park St. closed off that cross street (Dora?) for gated parking. They could have put the gates on the side of the road and kept it open.
I was thinking that exact same thing yesterday.
One thing is nice is that the units are close to a Skyway Station. I am fine with the design as is. Anything at this point to get people in will be nice. Once that transportation center goes up, these lucky people will have tons of transportation available within walking distance. Hopefully retail will be a big component of the transportation station.
I'm not too concerned above the shift of this one "block" of Davis Street, slightly to the east. From a historical perspective, Water Street was a part of the train station's railyard and this "block" of Davis was cut off from the rest of LaVilla by the old FEC freight depot super block between Lee and Jefferson Streets. So instead of being used as street, it was a truck loading area for the back of warehouses and factories. Although land was originally platted for a connection between Bay and Forsyth, what was actually built was a pedestrian bridge over the freight depot's railyard.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/History/Davis-Street-History/i-JSx3Djj/0/L/railroad%20row%203-L.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/History/Davis-Street-History/i-Qc57jgb/0/L/railroad%20row%202-L.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/History/Davis-Street-History/i-pR9psQc/0/L/railroad%20row-L.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1755178242_s3NtmZ2-600x1000.jpg)
The old FEC depot's railyard between Bay and Forsyth can be seen in this 1970s aerial of downtown Jax.
Looking at the Vestcor site plan, we're probably talking about a 100' shift of that section of street to the east. I wouldn't classify +450 linear feet as super block. That's shorter than the traditional blocks in Riverside and Springfield. IMO, add in a sidewalk on the new portion and call it day.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4845042101_gp6QFvL-L.jpg)
If they get the tax credits they seek, it appears to be a great project for a desolate area of downtown.
Agreed....IF that is an actual street with sidewalks.
Not only should they not close this section, but the block between Bay and Forsyth should be put in to complete the local grid.
^Private Property:(
I agree it should be there though.
Assuming that section of South Davis St. is closed and removed for this construction, does that mean that the road north of Forsyth would have to be changed from North Davis St. to just Davis St.? As far as I can tell this is the only block of South Davis Street (or just Davis St depending on the map), then it skips the block between Bay and Forsyth before starting again as North Davis Street.
I think it would be easier to not rename it. At some point, it would be great to put that back together.
The Block between Bay and Forsyth was removed so Barnett (no relation to Barnett Bank, now known as Interline Brands) could build an office. Terrible site plan for that block.
The block between Bay and Forsyth hasn't been around for at least a century, if ever. Although it was platted as a street, it didn't operate as one because that land was used as a railyard for the old freight railroad depot. That depot was located between Forysth and Bay and stretched from Lee to Jefferson Streets. There was a pedestrian bridge that allowed people to go over the yard between LaVilla and the old Railroad Row district. South Davis was nothing more than a loading area for cold storage and produce warehouses. Here's a few old images:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1755178289_BWgWNcn-M.jpg)
Looking west along Bay Street. The Bay Street side of the depot is on the right. Where the buildings come up to Bay, in the distant background, is where that unopened Davis Street ROW was located. The old warehouses backing up to the terminal railyard (today's Water Street ROW) can be seen on the left.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1030679772_hotGB-M.jpg)
Sanborn map showing a portion of the freight depot super block
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1755178200_Ts2kzzv-M.jpg)
Front of freight depot at Jefferson and Forsyth.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1755178359_8kXDNSp-M.jpg)
FEC staff inside the freight depot
^Good to know. I thought that Barnett messed it up. The Rail lines make a lot more sense though.
I do think that as that area redevelops (however long that will take), that at least one street should be there, if not both of what was platted. I have to assume both Madison and Davis were platted.
Given that I work directly across the street from this project, I'm rather excited to see it take shape. Even better if I can secure one.
Looks like they are moving forward on this. Here's an article that mentions construction should start in September:
QuoteRyan Hoover, vice president of TVC Development, said construction should start Sept. 1 and be finished a year later. The total cost, he said, will be about $23 million.
Last year, the Downtown Investment Authority approved a $270,000 loan from the Downtown Economic Development Fund.
The rents will be $634 for a studio, $676 for one bedroom, $811 for two bedrooms and $937 for three bedrooms.
That's $400 to almost $1,000 a month less than the new complexes that opened last year just a few blocks away on Riverside Avenue.
But in order to qualify for an apartment, the income limit for one person is $27,300 a year. For two people, it's $31,200.
http://jacksonville.com/business/real-estate/2016-06-16/story/work-affordable-housing-complex-lofts-lavilla-commence-sept-1
There's activity at the site now.
Pretty cool. The more downtown housing, the better. Especially in LaVilla.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 15, 2016, 11:40:39 AM
Pretty cool. The more downtown housing, the better. Especially in LaVilla.
Yeah; at present LaVilla is like a "no man's" land.
I took pictures for this week's October construction update article earlier today. Here's a picture of this site:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Urban-ConstructionUpdate/i-BkzGdbj/0/L/20161015_102107-L.jpg)
QuoteGroundbreaking Wednesday on downtown apartment building
Groundbreaking will be held Wednesday for Lofts at LaVilla, a 130-unit affordable housing apartment building on Water Street near Prime Osborn Convention Center.
The five–story building is limited to those with a maximum income of $27,300 a year for one person, $31,200 a year for two. That's 60 percent of the median income for the area. Rents will be $634 for a studio, $676 for one bedroom, $811 for two bedrooms and $937 for three bedrooms.
The $22 million project was financed with a combination of funding from Florida Housing Finance Corporation tax-credits, the Downtown Investment Authority and Jacksonville Housing Finance Authority.
It's being developed by TVC Development, part of Vestcor Companies, and is expected to be completed next fall. Th groundbreaking begins at 9 a.m.
http://jacksonville.com/business/2016-10-25/groundbreaking-wednesday-downtown-apartment-building (http://jacksonville.com/business/2016-10-25/groundbreaking-wednesday-downtown-apartment-building)
Vestcor is also working on getting the necessary tax credits for another 100-110 unit workforce housing project in LaVilla. They got a loan from the DIA for that one earlier this month.