Hi! My family and I are moving to Jacksonville and trying to figure out the best place to live with small children.
It appears that the options close to downtown are limited but I am asking for help in case I've missed something.
Here is what I've come up with so far that have well ranked schools:
1. Julington Creek Plantation
2. Nocatee
3. Ponte Vedra Beach
4. Jacksonville Beach (although rankings are lower)
I've also heard San Marco, but it appears that only the elementary school is ranked well there.
What am I missing? Is it possible to live near downtown and attend well ranked public schools? I also understand that there is a magnet system, but how likely is getting accepted? What are most people living in Jax doing about schools?
Any help would be appreciated!
Depends on how long you plan on staying in an area. Avondale has Fishweir Elementary which constantly ranks as a top school in the county. Of course after elementary school, the schools take a nose dive in that area.
I would focus more on the programs at the high schools rather than anything else. I would also encourage you to consider sending your child to a more diverse school in order to give your child a better perspective.
How old are your kids?
Also, your child will receive a fine education experience at most schools in Duval County. When schools are ranked as you have been reading, it usually just means the students are more affluent, not that the teachers or education are any better.
San Marco and Avondale/Ortega have excellent elementary schools and are close to downtown and are by far the most attractive traditional style single family home neighborhoods with character in the city in my opinion. Less of a modern sprawling suburban feel in those neighborhoods. But as mentioned after elementary the public school "ratings" go down. There are many magnet and private school options. The weird thing about Jacksonville is you actually pay higher taxes in the suburbs like St Johns/Nocatee/Ponte Vedra where there are really good schools at all levels. A coworker of mine who lives in the Lakewood area south of San Marco found that in their situation they were actually saving money living where they lived sending their kids to a more affordable private school compared to commuting and paying higher taxes in the burbs. Doesn't always work out that way but somehow it did for them. Just something to remember, look into the taxes in different areas.
Quote from: FlaBoy on April 18, 2016, 11:32:46 AM
I would focus more on the programs at the high schools rather than anything else. I would also encourage you to consider sending your child to a more diverse school in order to give your child a better perspective.
How old are your kids?
Also, your child will receive a fine education experience at most schools in Duval County. When schools are ranked as you have been reading, it usually just means the students are more affluent, not that the teachers or education are any better.
Well said, I have another coworker (high ranking manager who takes education very seriously) who's kids are in Duval schools that have like a 5 out of 10 rating, so very poor rating, but he has no idea why it is that low and thinks they are getting a very good education. His kids are also in AP classes. So maybe that makes a big difference.
Quote from: Southbound2Jax on April 18, 2016, 09:38:54 AM
Hi! My family and I are moving to Jacksonville and trying to figure out the best place to live with small children.
It appears that the options close to downtown are limited but I am asking for help in case I've missed something.
Here is what I've come up with so far that have well ranked schools:
1. Julington Creek Plantation
2. Nocatee
3. Ponte Vedra Beach
4. Jacksonville Beach (although rankings are lower)
I've also heard San Marco, but it appears that only the elementary school is ranked well there.
What am I missing? Is it possible to live near downtown and attend well ranked public schools? I also understand that there is a magnet system, but how likely is getting accepted? What are most people living in Jax doing about schools?
Any help would be appreciated!
Welcome Southbound.
There are a few things to consider. St. Johns County (where Julington Creek, Ponte Vedra and most of Nocatee are located) has the highest rated schools in Florida. But if you're wanting a more urban environment, there's really nothing in the county for you, besides maybe St. Augustine. The rest of the county is really just a series of bedroom suburbs for people who work in Jax.
That said, the best individual schools are all in Jacksonville - the magnet schools and private schools. In Jacksonville, an unusual number of families have kids in private school, and the magnet program is very reputable. Also, the schools in parts of Jacksonville that are demographically similar to St. Johns County - especially the eastern Southside area - as well as in much of Clay and Nassau County, are comparable to those in St. Johns.
In the urban core, there are a few more options than it appears on paper. San Marco has the A-rated Hendricks Avenue Elementary. While the "official" district middle school is Dupont, you'll have good access to the magnet middle school in the area, Julia Landon, one of the best in NE Florida. From there you'll have access to the wider magnet system if that appeals to you. Schools are also on an upswing in a few other gentrifying urban areas, such as the Avondale and Fishweir area, which has an excellent elementary school, and the Beaches, which is well away from Downtown, but has more of an urban feel than other suburban areas.
Additionally, various schools, even some with unimpressive grade rankings, have pretty impressive IB, AICE, and AVID programs (St. Johns County is actually pretty underwhelming with those options, IMO.) http://www.duvalschools.org/Page/7181
Overall, my recommendation for families who want good schools but want to live in the urban core is usually San Marco: From Hendricks Avenue Elementary, kids with good grades have a pretty good shot at Landon Middle's magnet program, and from there the magnet high schools. You could also try Fishweir Elementary and then magnet middle school.
Quote from: Southbound2Jax on April 18, 2016, 09:38:54 AM
What am I missing? Is it possible to live near downtown and attend well ranked public schools? I also understand that there is a magnet system, but how likely is getting accepted? What are most people living in Jax doing about schools?
Schools can be tough. Avondale has Fishweir which is excellent, but much of the neighborhood is zoned for West Riverside. While the ratings are low, many parents that I trust love the school, so I'm not sure the situation there. The middle school isn't great however (Lake Shore).
Across the river in San Marco, Hendricks Elementary is excellent. Middle school is weird - it's zoned for a not so great Middle School. But, Landon Middle is right there, but is now a magnet as I understand.
In either case, the High Schools aren't rated great. Anecdotally, I'd probably lean to Lee (Riverside and Avondale) over Englewood (San Marco), but that is far from scientific.
In any situation, particularly high school, they have AP classes that can be excellent and not indicative of a school grade, for what that's worth.
As far as getting into magnets - doable but not a guarantee. I'm not an expert on the magnet programs so I'm probably not the best to comment on them.
Additionally, if you can get the AP Magnet Schools, the Middle and High are Excellent. The Middle Schools are James Weldon Johnson and Landon (I believe, someone correct me if I'm wrong), and the High Schools are Stanton and Paxon - both of which are routinely in US News' best Public Schools list.
Quote from: CCMjax on April 18, 2016, 11:46:04 AM
Quote from: FlaBoy on April 18, 2016, 11:32:46 AM
I would focus more on the programs at the high schools rather than anything else. I would also encourage you to consider sending your child to a more diverse school in order to give your child a better perspective.
How old are your kids?
Also, your child will receive a fine education experience at most schools in Duval County. When schools are ranked as you have been reading, it usually just means the students are more affluent, not that the teachers or education are any better.
Well said, I have another coworker (high ranking manager who takes education very seriously) who's kids are in Duval schools that have like a 5 out of 10 rating, so very poor rating, but he has no idea why it is that low and thinks they are getting a very good education. His kids are also in AP classes. So maybe that makes a big difference.
Yes, AP (and IB, etc.) are light night and day even within the same schools. My cousins got excellent educations in the Terry Parker IB program, and my younger cousin has gone on to Stanton (for Southband, that's a magnet high school that's one of the best in all of Florida).
And yeah, the rankings are really just an average of a lot of measures. Duval schools are a lot more diverse than the 'burbs, which are wealthier and whiter. Students can and do get a good education at various schools, even if the average attainment is lower. There are likely to be other benefits too, such as a better perspective on life than is possible in an isolated school out in the suburbs.
Quote from: Tacachale on April 18, 2016, 12:03:57 PM
Quote from: CCMjax on April 18, 2016, 11:46:04 AM
Quote from: FlaBoy on April 18, 2016, 11:32:46 AM
I would focus more on the programs at the high schools rather than anything else. I would also encourage you to consider sending your child to a more diverse school in order to give your child a better perspective.
How old are your kids?
Also, your child will receive a fine education experience at most schools in Duval County. When schools are ranked as you have been reading, it usually just means the students are more affluent, not that the teachers or education are any better.
Well said, I have another coworker (high ranking manager who takes education very seriously) who's kids are in Duval schools that have like a 5 out of 10 rating, so very poor rating, but he has no idea why it is that low and thinks they are getting a very good education. His kids are also in AP classes. So maybe that makes a big difference.
Yes, AP (and IB, etc.) are light night and day even within the same schools. My cousins got excellent educations in the Terry Parker IB program, and my younger cousin has gone on to Stanton (for Southband, that's a magnet high school that's one of the best in all of Florida).
And yeah, the rankings are really just an average of a lot of measures. Duval schools are a lot more diverse than the 'burbs, which are wealthier and whiter. Students can and do get a good education at various schools, even if the average attainment is lower. There are likely to be other benefits too, such as a better perspective on life than is possible in an isolated school out in the suburbs.
A high school like Terry Parker or Lee can provide great opportunities for IB or Early College. I know this is an additional step but since there is no affirmative action in the state of Florida, the highest ranked school in the state of Florida, the University of Florida, attempts to take the top of the class in most high schools in order to get socio-economic and racial diversity. I believe other reputable schools like FSU, UCF, and USF do the same to an extent. Depending what the college goals are for the children, it is almost better for them to attend a high school where they also have the opportunity to shine rather than be at Bolles paying $20,000 and getting denied from UF.
If you don't find an urban area to your liking, in lieu of heading out to lily white St Johns County you may want to consider Mandarin. The Loretta Elementary, Mandarin Middle and Mandarin High Schools are all 'A' schools. They are also much more diversified than you will find in St Johns County.
Oakleaf has all the great Clay county schools.
Quote from: edjax on April 18, 2016, 01:13:41 PM
If you don't find an urban area to your liking, in lieu of heading out to lily white St Johns County you may want to consider Mandarin. The Loretta Elementary, Mandarin Middle and Mandarin High Schools are all 'A' schools. They are also much more diversified than you will find in St Johns County.
Mandarin Oaks and Greenland Pines Elementary also feed into Mandarin Middle and Mandarin High and are also 'A' rated schools. Again, just an alternative to St Johns if you can't find a true urban setting to your liking.
Thanks for everyone's replies!
I can see how St. Johns county can more easily attract people moving from out of town. It is difficult to navigate the system without being on the ground there.
San Marco would be great, but there is a risk that we'd have to move when it comes time for middle school. I think this would be very disruptive.
Quote from: Southbound2Jax on April 19, 2016, 08:19:19 AM
Thanks for everyone's replies!
I can see how St. Johns county can more easily attract people moving from out of town. It is difficult to navigate the system without being on the ground there.
San Marco would be great, but there is a risk that we'd have to move when it comes time for middle school. I think this would be very disruptive.
If you live in San Marco or Riverside/Avondale you don't necessarily need to move for middle school, but you do need to get familiar with the magnet program. In fact, being in San Marco gives you a higher chance of getting in Julia Landon, which is a very good magnet middle. The magnet program is very good. Our daughter went to LaVilla, which is the arts magnet and we had a great experience. Our son will attend James Weldon Johnson as part of the Gifted program and that also is a very good school.
There are definitely good options for middle and high school. You will have to put in some time and research and pick the best fit for you and your kids.
Feel free to PM me. We've been through the magnet selection twice and know some of the intricacies.
Quote from: JHAT76 on April 19, 2016, 09:47:06 AM
Quote from: Southbound2Jax on April 19, 2016, 08:19:19 AM
Thanks for everyone's replies!
I can see how St. Johns county can more easily attract people moving from out of town. It is difficult to navigate the system without being on the ground there.
San Marco would be great, but there is a risk that we'd have to move when it comes time for middle school. I think this would be very disruptive.
If you live in San Marco or Riverside/Avondale you don't necessarily need to move for middle school, but you do need to get familiar with the magnet program. In fact, being in San Marco gives you a higher chance of getting in Julia Landon, which is a very good magnet middle. The magnet program is very good. Our daughter went to LaVilla, which is the arts magnet and we had a great experience. Our son will attend James Weldon Johnson as part of the Gifted program and that also is a very good school.
There are definitely good options for middle and high school. You will have to put in some time and research and pick the best fit for you and your kids.
Feel free to PM me. We've been through the magnet selection twice and know some of the intricacies.
Yeah, that's exactly what I'd say - there's a neighborhood preference for the magnet schools, meaning if you're living in the neighborhood, your kids are "Priority One" for attending the magnet school. So if you're living in San Marco, your kids have the highest priority for admission to Landon Middle.
St. Johns does have a great all around school district. You can count on having a good school pretty much anywhere you pick to live. However, I wouldn't rank many of the St. Johns schools on the level of the Duval County magnets (or some of the private schools in the area, if that appeals to you). Feel free to PM me too.
Also, remember there is now school choice across county lines and districts. If you are willing to drive your child, you can go to school anywhere with some space.
I'm a little late to the thread, but would concur with much of what has been said about Duval County schools. There are great schools throughout the county, but the nature of their success is probably a bit harder to wrap your head around coming from out of town.
With changes to standards and assessment this year, I'd encourage you to dig a bit deeper than just the school grade, which, while not unimportant, is highly correlated with the average income of a school's students, and doesn't fully capture everything that may be important to you.
For example, I live in Avondale, and am zoned for West Riverside Elementary, which, over the past few years, has been a "C" or "D" school. It has a relatively new dual-language Spanish immersion program, which has helped attract more students and has received rave reviews from parents and community members who know about it. After visiting the school, talking with teachers and the staff, my wife and I are very excited about sending our 4 1/2 year old there next year for Kindergarten. One of the other parents at the school wrote a blog post about how he feels about the school -- http://www.jaxpef.org/news/guest-post-my-kid-goes-to-a-d-school-and-i-love-it/.
Beyond specialized programs and other options, I believe very deeply, at least for my two boys, that they will be well served by attending a school with kids who don't all look like them or come to school having had the same experiences. The leaders of the future will have to lead a broad cross-section of society, and understanding the variety of places from which people grow up will be tremendously valuable.
In interest of full transparency, I run an education advocacy organization in town called the Jacksonville Public Education Fund. We do a ton of research and community work related to improving public schools. While we still have some way to go to ensure that every kid has a chance to attend a great school, there are lots of schools where that is already the case, that don't get enough credit for the good work they do every day.
JPEF publishes a lot of details on the public schools in Jacksonville that you may find helpful:
- Look up information on any school in Duval County at http://www.jaxpef.org/learn/school-data/
- See a guide to choosing a school in Duval County at http://www.jaxpef.org/media/5735/forweb2016howtochooseaschool.pdf
- Read about what's going on in Jacksonville schools at http://www.jaxpef.org/
Feel free to reach out if I can be of any help.
Welcome Southbound2Jax! I would second a lot of what has been said already. As an educator, I've found that school grades and online reviews don't really align with the quality of education your child can have in school. St. Johns County has A and B schools, but they are all pretty much the same. Duval County provides so many more options with their magnet schools, accelerated courses, Montessori, IB, AP, Dual-Language, performing arts, career academies, etc. I worked in D/F schools in Duval and some of the teachers were the best educators I have ever worked with. I would strongly encourage you to find a neighborhood you want to live in and then check out the feeder and magnet options available to you. Many families in nice neighborhoods are sending their kids to Duval County Public Schools and very happy. Ask them the paths they have found for their children to get a great education. Feel free to PM me if you have questions.
One note about FlaBoy's comment. Statewide school choice does not go into effect in FL until the 2017-18 school year. Best of luck to you finding a great place to live.