Metro Jacksonville

Guys and Gals,

Longtime reader here -- I was on the JTA's website last night to look up a bus schedule and I stumbled upon information pertaining to the regional transportation center that is being planned. The JTA is hosting a design showcase on Monday, April 18 at 4 p.m. If you're interested in attending, contact the JTA for the location as it wasn't given. Three design concepts are listed on the JTA's website, and here is the link to view them:

http://www.jtafla.com/blueprint-2020/jrtc/jrtc-designs/

I'm no genius, but after following MJ for a long while and learning so much, I feel like I could give my thoughts. In my opinion, aesthetically, all three push the design envelope with unordinary architecture. Price wise, the most expensive of the three concepts is less than half the cost of the original, sprawling $125 million RTC. All three concepts assume that the convention center is staying at the Jacksonville Terminal. The concept from Via Designs is nice to look at but still is too sprawled. The Pond-Michael Baker design renders a skyway extension to Brooklyn Station, which makes me happy. There is a rental car kiosk in KBJ's rendering. I like the idea of a cafe/convenience store space that were included in two designs. I also like the idea of TOD surrounding the JRTC; however, I wish the design firms had included a light rail/streetcar hub of some sort into the design of the JRTC. Finally as always, concepts are concept to change (who likes my corny pun? ;D).

So MJ, what are your thoughts on the designs? Which of the three do you prefer?

I like the green space incorporated with the Pond design.  It makes it more inviting.  I think Via's concept is too airporty and not very inviting.

Great proposals. All three are 110% better than what was proposed a decade ago. They are worthy of their own front page article and since the competition is on Monday, that means I have some extra work to do this weekend.  I haven't gone through the details but here's my initial ranking, based off my quick scan of all three.

1. Pond

Pond appears to have created a design that incorporates the needs of the greater area. With the central park space, the iconic architecture and the consideration of links to other areas (like the bike trail/linear park on Park Street and under the Skyway), it's the best design. However, it's also the most expensive.

2. KBJ

From an architectural standpoint, KBJ's proposal is pretty nice and iconic as well. It is something that would definitely standout in Jax's bland architectural landscape. I rank it second because it doesn't illustrate how it could enhance the sense of place and development potential of the surrounding parcels.

3. Via

Via's skyway loop into Brooklyn is an interesting idea. It's also the cheapest of the three to build. My concern is the spread out nature of the facility. Assuming passenger rail comes back to the terminal in the future, this layout would result in the JRTC being as spread out as the initial concepts years ago. Because of that concern, I'll rank it third until I can get into the meat of all three design concepts.

Pond is by far the best. I love the integration of the skyway, the space it provides that the area really needs, and the fact that the design doesn't sprawl across four city blocks. So as far as I'm concerned, let's do the groundbreaking tomorrow, I'll provide the shovel if needed.

Great find! For me, I'd order it as Pond, Via, and KBJ.

Pond had the nicest building design to me, and I especially like that the lattice grid on the exterior breaks up what would otherwise be a lot of glass. I really like the Skyway Greenway and think it would be great to see the entire length of the system. The only thing that's gnawing at me is the giant JAXIS sign in the front plaza. Not a fan of it, it just doesn't seem necessary.

Via and KBJ both felt like they were inspired by airports. Nothing wrong with that, they just felt a little out of place. I was least-inspired by KBJ.

Pond looks the best to me too. Both of the others have good features of their own.

There are components of all three I like and I don't like.

I agree with Lake for the most part. I like the KBJ iconic architecture which means the Via proposal looks a little too 70's airportish to me.

I don't like the connectivity to JT in any of them. Even if it stays a convention center, I still don't like it. It's an afterthought and checkoff to a design requirement.

I will see if I can make the design walkthrough before commenting further.

VIA's feels too far away from JT, and looks like it expects more buildings for it.

I think KBJ's looks cool, but it doesn't seem to offer any way for the Skyway to be extended past it, or really anything in favor of future expansion.

Pond seems to offer the best design for the community while creating space for more in the future.

Pond 1st
Via Last

So the majority seem to like the most expensive one the most.  The Pond design will be even more expensive if they build everything they have in their plans. The $47.5 million estimated cost does not include the additional JTA admin floor that Pond wants to build.  That will be an additional $6 million. So now it's up to $53.5 when I think the budget that JTA provided the firms with was $40 million.

Besides all that, I like KBJ's design the best. Definitely the most interesting to my eye.  The other two look like suburban office buildings to me.

Personally, I'd prefer the office component being scrapped altogether. That would drop the cost significantly in all of them. Architecturally, I'm fine with all three concepts. What I specifically like about Pond's proposal is the public space and thought of how the project fits into the surrounding area.

The JTA website was updated.  The showcase is at:

Monday, April 18 // 4 to 6 p.m.
 // 121 West Forsyth St., 2nd Floor

Join us at our administrative offices for an open-house showcase and tell us what you think. Ten minute presentations by each firm start at 4:45 p.m. You may preview the designs below. To send comments about the designs, email JRTCdesigns@jtafla.com. Comments will be accepted until 5 p.m., Tuesday, April 19. We look forward to seeing you there!

Agreed that all of these are better than the crap JTA tried to do about 8 years ago - that wasn't even a transportation center, but a few uses that happened to be within a few blocks of each other.

KBJ is typical KBJ: Great from a distance, but unimaginative at street level. Nearly all of their downtown buildings are that way. I'd rank this third.

My first reaction was actually to like Via as the best, mainly because of cost and the vertical aspects, like stacking the buses terminals. However, outside of the skyway extension to Brooklyn (which is an interesting concept the way they did it), it's like the Skyway and Train Station were an afterthought, almost like when they were designing this they forgot about it until the 11th hour. PArt of the reason that's it's cheap is the aesthetics - a little unimaginative. Someone else mentioned an airport - I agree.

What would be great is if they could put this thing on the same lot as the Convention Center, like that private dirt parking lot directly across from the skyway station.

The Pond one takes a little bit to digest. I love the road diet on Park St (no reason this road needs to be four lanes) as well as the concepts about Jackson St. It uses the land pretty well too and considers the pedestrian/walking as a component better than the other two. It too is a little spread out, but overall nice.

I'd actually be fine with either the Via proposal or the Pond proposal, but would probably lean towards Pond because of the pedestrian aspects.

Putting them all aside, I'd REALLY prefer the ability to use the grass lot adjacent to the Prime Osborne.

Of the three I like Pond the best.  It looks to be the only where someone could walk to it.  One of them (don't remember which) doesn't even have sidewalks in most places.  It's like they expect everyone to arrive by vehicle and leave by vehicle.  I am also not a fan of all the skywalks which is why I prefer the Pond version.  As for green-space; downtown JAX already has too much green space and I wouldn't mind if every proposal dropped it from the their plans.  We can worry about a central park type open space when we have some semblance of density.  I am also not a fan of separating transportation types across multiple levels.  It is very Le Corbusier and I can't stand that guy.  Also, I agree with the above comment about Via's looking too much like an airport was spot on - I thought the exact same thing.

Think I will attend the 4PM meeting.

I would be concerned about KBJ's design aging poorly.  It is very Star Warsy which I don't really care for.  It is also an incredibly custom and unique structure with all the slanted and angled elements which would add a lot of cost so it may end up being more expensive than Pond's in the end.

Pretty fancy for a glorified Greyhound station.

Quote from: Kerry on April 18, 2016, 12:01:21 PM
As for green-space; downtown JAX already has too much green space and I wouldn't mind if every proposal dropped it from the their plans.  We can worry about a central park type open space when we have some semblance of density.

It's difficult to add in green space and park space at the end after you've built up your city. It has to be a part of redevelopment plans from the start. It's one of the things I appreciated so much about Pond's proposal.

Many small areas of green space will have a larger impact than one large space because they will be directly accessible to more people on a daily basis. That's important because access to green space is actually important for an individual's health. That becomes more important as we'll start to have more downtown residents who might not have access to a larger park area or a backyard of their own in which to play or relax.

^ Very true! The green space is good. And it's not like they are taking up an entire block or anything. Where is the new "Lift E'vry voice and sing park" in relation to this?

The public presentation portion is now open. People starting to arrive. Presentations begin at 4:45 p.m. All three presentations on a loop. VIA Concepts up first. Then KBJ, followed by Pond.

121 W. Forsyth St. #200

I sent an email with my two cents and got a prompt reply. I've got to say, JTA is handling this project very well. Hopefully we get something good out of it.

From an anonymous, possibly biased, attendee of today's presentations:

Via Concepts/one presenter:

The first was presented by a guy who was fun, but not very serious and repeated himself a lot. The focus was not on the city but on building in a less desirable area.

KBJ/ one presenter:

The second presenter is a Jacksonville native. He owned the fact that they are established, old boys, who can do what the city needs. Experienced in a lot of design/builds. But he touched his nose a lot and rushed through too quickly.

Pond-Michael Baker/ five presenters:

The third, had the most extensive and professional presentation. Their's was not as smooth as the previous two but they had the most work, best thinking and best designs.

The third group showed they were a partnership and that they had extensive relationships to bring everything together

I thought it was kind of coincidental that the second proposal looked like an airport and that KBJ does lots of airport work.  It is my impression that Via is a little out of date in their thinking that safety (their top priority) is achieved by separating all uses and creating yet an other one-way street so as to speed-up the bus.  Also, if I hear the word 'iconic' one more time it will end in a CNN moment.

Pond-MB was the only group that discussed pedestrians and sidewalk interaction.

I'm kind of surprised KBJ had only one presenter.  Was it Tom Rensing?  Is there a recording of the presentations anywhere?

Via=terrible....
Same bland architecture Jacksonville has been erecting for years.
I'm sure since it may be the cheapest it will be the one our forward thinking city will select.
I think it's TERRIBLE!!!

Quote from: TheCat on April 18, 2016, 06:11:33 PM
Pond-Michael Baker/ five presenters:

The third, had the most extensive and professional presentation. Their's was not as smooth as the previous two but they had the most work, best thinking and best designs.

the problem is their design is estimated to cost $47 to $53 million....and JTA's request was for the center to cost said no more than $40 million!

Dear MJ,
A few things
1) OnFlorida and spending
     As a born and raised Floridian, I have seen quite a few urban planning projects that are great ideas, but are they going to be used?  Of the people who are reading, have read, will read, how many will actually use this terminal?

     Possibly more importantly, why are so many in favor of a design, the estimate for which is already $12mm over budget - that is before the first brick is laid. Think of all of the other improvements that Jac could make with that $12mm or not in debt the city could be.

2) on public transport in FL
    What is the ridership of the light rail? The possibility of extension is great! But not when you pick an idea in a state with no state or local income tax to pay for it and go $12mm over budget on design. This is already a decade behind - it's taken that long to get the $40mm cleared - at that rate it will take another 3.25 years to pay off the excess 12mm for the front runner in design before the city can start to save for light rail extensions.

Too many people drive for it too be widely used

3) final thoughts - someone did sum up thoughts rather well, it's a glorified greyhound station, and JTA offices. A location that frees up space in downtown for development is a good idea, especially if the convention center doesn't move. Offices for public amenities like the rental car offices make sense, most people in Florida drive and need access to cars.

I don't understand why a cash-strapped city isnt focusing more on feasibility, adaptability and what makes economic sense.

For comparison's sake, the mid-2000s JRTC plan:

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/744225864_WsJrk-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/744225875_p7CSn-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/744226064_FNpnC-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/744226205_ZLYcr-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/744226225_VWrZr-M.jpg)

Quote from: KatieV080 on April 18, 2016, 08:42:54 PM
Dear MJ,
A few things
1) OnFlorida and spending
     As a born and raised Floridian, I have seen quite a few urban planning projects that are great ideas, but are they going to be used?  Of the people who are reading, have read, will read, how many will actually use this terminal?

I'm a born and raised Floridian as well. Assuming I'm still working downtown, I'd be a potential user of this facility in some sort of fashion. I currently use the skyway more than the average Jax resident because there's a station directly across the street from my office. During the day, depending on where I need to go downtown, there are trips where it's easier and more convenient for me than taking my truck out of the garage a few blocks away and driving.

QuotePossibly more importantly, why are so many in favor of a design, the estimate for which is already $12mm over budget - that is before the first brick is laid. Think of all of the other improvements that Jac could make with that $12mm or not in debt the city could be.

To be honest, I probably prefer the KBJ design (architecturally) more than Pond's. However, what I really like about Pond design is how it possibly integrates with the surrounding area at the pedestrian level. With that side, since Pond's covers more land than KBJ's, perhaps KBJ's can be modified to be more interative at ground level? Also, I don't believe the city would be paying for this. From what I understand, JTA is fronting this bill.

Quote2) on public transport in FL
    What is the ridership of the light rail? The possibility of extension is great!

We don't have light rail but I assume you're taking about the Skyway?  I believe it averages around 5,000 riders a day, which is actually impressive for something that's only 2.5 miles in length, that operates in a downtown that still struggles in generating everyday urban vitality and vibrancy. With that said, the suggested Brooklyn loop extension makes no sense.

QuoteBut not when you pick an idea in a state with no state or local income tax to pay for it and go $12mm over budget on design.

I'm in an agreement that the cost should stay below $40 million. I'd like to see what the Pond design would look like at that number. The proposals would be easier to compare apples-to-apples. For example, I doesn't appear that the elevated public park shown in the graphics is included in the cost estimates. The plan would look radically different if that were replaced with the vacant dirt lot that sits there today.

QuoteThis is already a decade behind - it's taken that long to get the $40mm cleared - at that rate it will take another 3.25 years to pay off the excess 12mm for the front runner in design before the city can start to save for light rail extensions.

In the event the Skyway is extended, money would have to come from a separate pot of money. How that's actually funded could be anyone's guess at this point. It could be public-private, the creation of a transit district, mobility fee funds, federal, state dollars, a tax increase, grants or a mix of all. At this point, it's too early in the game since there's no real plan on the table for extension.

QuoteToo many people drive for it too be widely used

I don't agree with this. It will be used by those who live in areas where it is designed to serve. How many people driving on the streets is less of a concern than having supportive land use and zoning policies in place that increase density within walking distance of transit spines.

Quote3) final thoughts - someone did sum up thoughts rather well, it's a glorified greyhound station, and JTA offices. A location that frees up space in downtown for development is a good idea, especially if the convention center doesn't move. Offices for public amenities like the rental car offices make sense, most people in Florida drive and need access to cars.

I don't understand why a cash-strapped city isnt focusing more on feasibility, adaptability and what makes economic sense.

From my understanding, COJ isn't focusing on anything but the pension referendum this August. This is JTA's baby. With that said, after following this for over a decade now, it appears they are focusing on feasibility, adaptability and what makes economic sense.  The old plan had a $150 million price tag and swallowed half of LaVilla. Out of these three proposals, the most expensive one is still 1/3rd the cost of the original JRTC plan.

Quote from: KatieV080 on April 18, 2016, 08:42:54 PM
Dear MJ,
A few things
1) OnFlorida and spending
     As a born and raised Floridian, I have seen quite a few urban planning projects that are great ideas, but are they going to be used?  Of the people who are reading, have read, will read, how many will actually use this terminal?

     Possibly more importantly, why are so many in favor of a design, the estimate for which is already $12mm over budget - that is before the first brick is laid. Think of all of the other improvements that Jac could make with that $12mm or not in debt the city could be.

2) on public transport in FL
    What is the ridership of the light rail? The possibility of extension is great! But not when you pick an idea in a state with no state or local income tax to pay for it and go $12mm over budget on design. This is already a decade behind - it's taken that long to get the $40mm cleared - at that rate it will take another 3.25 years to pay off the excess 12mm for the front runner in design before the city can start to save for light rail extensions.

Too many people drive for it too be widely used

3) final thoughts - someone did sum up thoughts rather well, it's a glorified greyhound station, and JTA offices. A location that frees up space in downtown for development is a good idea, especially if the convention center doesn't move. Offices for public amenities like the rental car offices make sense, most people in Florida drive and need access to cars.

I don't understand why a cash-strapped city isnt focusing more on feasibility, adaptability and what makes economic sense.

Hi Katie,

Welcome to MJ!

The idea of this plan is to consolidate several transportation forms into a single stop for patrons. Looking long term, you would be able to ride Amtrak, take a Skyway car, grab a bus (local, Greyhound or Megabus, rent a car, bike or electric assist (like a segway) or just catch a cab. If an Airport express comes to fruition, it could stop here.

All projects are negotiable. The prices you see here are estimates based on past projects and per square foot historicals. JTA can always place caps on the contract amount which doesn't allow the contractor to go over budget by a certain amount.

Most of this is being funded through various sources, not just local taxes. Mostly Federal funding and grants.

While I agree with you on the strategic planning one must do to stay in tune with the needs of the public, you still have to anticipate the needs of the future in what you design.  People say Jacksonville is terrible at transit because there is no way to connect all of the ways to travel.  Now, here we are, with a way to "bring it all together" finally.

Even a cash strapped city has to be prepared, that is done through ongoing planning. You will find many people here who believe Jacksonville has been overwhelming in paying for plans, but very deficient in following through.

Jacksonville is not as bankrupt as it appears, but it is not as wealthy as people think. Unfortunately we come up with a lot of plans that are too big for our britches and we can't perform anything incrementally, because our city fathers always want to disrupt long terms plans for short term expediency, especially if a developer lands on the door.

So your points are well taken.  I don't think we are going to spend $12M more than we should. But it gives an indication of what is possible with our hard earned dollars.

I first want to give JTA credit for going to great lengths to include the public in this process.  All too often in Jacksonville we have seen projects move forward and it is obvious they did not take into account how the local user would interact with that project.   I.e. The courthouse(pretty sure KBJ designed) and public library.   These so called iconic buildings totally disregard the pedestrian and how they will feel along the building edge.  Of the three concepts it appears Pond Michael Baker really focused on creating an experience like no other in Jacksonville.  The other concepts seem stark and have no life to them. 

As far as the budgets.  Isn't it a little early to be getting estimates.  These are all pretty close in range and is anyone doing a reality check on what was submitted?   I would again say at least the Pond Michael Baker team gave the JTA and quite honestly the City a project we could all get behind.  I'm sure as they move forward they could get a good portion of this included, potentially other players would step up to assist. 

Of all I feel that the public engagement of their design is the best.  Not just another stark building placed in Jacksonville. 

I think the past few comments pretty much sum up how I feel. In addition, I have heard from someone "in the know" that JTA has more than enough budgeted to build any of these designs. Actually, they could build two if they wanted based off what this person estimated. So I figure why not go with the best one?

Quote from: UNFurbanist on April 18, 2016, 11:42:40 PM
In addition, I have heard from someone "in the know" that JTA has more than enough budgeted to build any of these designs. Actually, they could build two if they wanted based off what this person estimated. So I figure why not go with the best one?

Well that really frustrates me. If the budget was actually more than $40 million than why not state it. Who knows what kbj and via could have done with a $53 million budget.

What happens to the Rosa Parks station in all this?  I assume it will no longer be a bus hub.

From my understanding it will still be a bus hub. Just not the main one.

In regards to funding, here's a quote from today's JBJ:

QuoteThe JRTC, which must be up and running in September 2019, will begin construction with a new Greyhound terminal in January. The Greyhound bus station will be funded with $10 million in state and federal funding, said Brad Thoburn, vice president of long range planning and system development for JTA. The JRTC, which will include JTA's administrative offices, will be funded through a combination of strategic intermodal funds, federal funds and local funding. Thoburn said that of the approximately $40 million in total project, JTA has committed to about $10.5 million, and has funding in place to begin construction when ready.

Full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/04/19/jta-unveils-potential-designs-for-new.html

I understand that at the JTA meeting this Thursday at 2:00, they will chose the JRTC design.  Will anyone be at the meeting?

Hello Metro Jacksonville. I wanted to post some images from the KBJ submission as well as a video we put together for our final presentation to JTA.

We were unaware we could post these until we saw that another firm has had a new rendering of their submission posted since before the presentations to JTA.

Thanks
http://kbjjrtcdesignsubmission.weebly.com/ (http://kbjjrtcdesignsubmission.weebly.com/)
https://youtu.be/5VIbGw7fOkY (https://youtu.be/5VIbGw7fOkY)

Sounds like the Pond design is going to be approved tomorrow, per the Daily Record.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=547457

KBJ was glad to have the opportunity to put our design together  for this, and a Congrats should be sent out to Pond / Michael Baker for their design.

I'm still perplexed where the 33 Million number is coming from on the Jax Daily Record. The Previous design submission for their project said they were closer to 50 million. Even taking their Parking garage out of the design scope doesn't get close to 33 Million.

The article reads "Balfour Beatty Construction Co. has guaranteed the price for the project and will be responsible for cost overruns, if any, said Ford."

This should get interesting.

It'll be interesting to see what develops.

Quote from: GradedWash on April 27, 2016, 01:26:57 PM
KBJ was glad to have the opportunity to put our design together  for this, and a Congrats should be sent out to Pond / Michael Baker for their design.

Thank you to your entire team for submitting a thoughtful and innovative design. We need more projects and proposals like yours.

Quote from: ProjectMaximus on April 27, 2016, 02:43:49 PM

Quote from: GradedWash on April 27, 2016, 01:26:57 PM
KBJ was glad to have the opportunity to put our design together  for this, and a Congrats should be sent out to Pond / Michael Baker for their design.

Thank you to your entire team for submitting a thoughtful and innovative design. We need more projects and proposals like yours.

Agreed!

My only critique of the KBJ design would be a seeming lack of pedestrian connectivity. To me it doesn't seem as "user-friendly" but maybe that is just the rendering. However, architecturally speaking it is very nice! Good work, and I hope that Jax gets the best bang for its buck.

As a Brooklyn resident, pedestrian access was huge for me as I will likely arrive and depart by foot when availing myself of mass transit.  With that in mind Pond was the only group that specifically addressed walkability so I am glad they were chosen.

There could have been a better job incorporating more pedestrian items into the design, but from the RFP request, it seemed more important to fit all the building elements requested into the design budget and produce an  iconic structure.  We actually took items out of our design when we got budget numbers back from Cost Estimators. That was a little frustrating, but that is life. 

My two cents as solely a citizen of Jacksonville and not an Architect:

If I am reading the numbers correctly, the Pond / Michael Baker submission comes in at 33 million only including the JTA building and the Greyhound building. It does not include the additional community program which is about a floor and a half of the building, the green roof, Elevated Pedestrian bridge over Bay, Canopies at the Bus Terminal, Parking Garage, any pedestrian green ways connecting Brooklyn.... and it's a little fuzzy on if that includes the grand plaza in the front.

As citizens of Jacksonville, striving for this town to be elevated to a level of greatness it can achieve, It is our right to make sure the project doesn't get so scaled down it loses all the elements that most people on this site (and around the city) appreciate about the design.

I would agree that while I liked the Pond proposal the best, the cost numbers are sketchy to me.

Regarding KBJ (assuming you work there), if I can ask a question: I'd agree that the KBJ proposal was lacking a little in pedestrian connectivity. To me, that seems like a trend in KBJ's designs over the years-a few examples are One/Two Prudential Plaza, Independent Square, and the Southern Bell Florida HQ. All of these are pretty iconic from a distance, but not amazing at pedestrian scale. Granted many of these were years ago, but I have to say, there was a part of me that said, "Typical KBJ" when I saw it.

As someone who (I'm assuming) wasn't part of any of the projects I mentioned, what do you think.

BTW, I'm asking in relation to the JRTC, and not trying to hijack the thread.

That is quite a loaded question. I don't know I can answer here without diverting too much off topic. But first, I'm new to KBJ I joined the firm about 6 months ago. Secondly, KBJ was founded the year my father was born... So because of those reasons there, I can't say I was collaboratively working on the projects you suggested.  8)

I think KBJ has had the unique opportunity of being around so long that they have created most of the skyline of Jacksonville. Which will of course give you a lot of positive and negative feedback just because the span of architecture style and time.

I think you can look back at a lot of skyscrapers built around the times of Modis and the like and say the same thing. I am newer to the designation of Registered Architect, and this may be only my opinion, but I feel Architects are starting to pay more attention to pedestrian scale in cities.

That may be all I can say on here about the topic which could be discussed at a huge length getting into the history of architecture, planning, and landscape design. 

Quote from: GradedWash on April 28, 2016, 05:51:17 PM
That may be all I can say on here about the topic which could be discussed at a huge length getting into the history of architecture, planning, and landscape design.

As you'll find from hanging out here a bit more, moderators have a penchant for separating topics when they diverge a tad to far from the original.  That said, you'll probably be less than thrilled with the spin-off title... it's a skill that seems to evade even the most gifted writers on this site.  ;)

Or, feel free to open your own thread on whatever subject you would like to discuss.  That's one of the benefits to having an open forum such as this.  You might actually be amazed at some of the more intelligent sarcastic opinions discussions that tend to dwell here.

Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXz9hqd0AS4

I like the Pond design, however, I was hoping a pedestrian walkway between the Skyway and Prime Osborn/JT would not be a "future consideration". It reminds me of the street level retail on the Parador parking garage that should have been included during the initial build and not some aspect to revisit when certain benchmarks are met (translation: You won't be getting street retail).

Perhaps a Skyway station can be incorporated into the new convention center when it is built along the river.

I am hoping that a new Amtrak station will be part of the JRTC. 

It won't be a part of what was approved. It's something that could be added at a later date.

Eventual Amtrak and Brightline integration could really do A LOT for the area and downtown overall!

Quote from: UNFurbanist on April 30, 2016, 12:08:13 PM
Eventual Amtrak and Brightline integration could really do A LOT for the area and downtown overall!
[/quote

Brightline???

^Brightline is All Aboard Florida

(https://townnewstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/brightline-train-710x434.jpg)

http://www.allaboardflorida.com/

Okay! Just making sure!

I still think that some sort elevated loop should be constructed for Amtrak so that it doesn't have to make that back up move.

This should be done while there is still a little room down there in that area.

It can be done.